Respect the fans

[ChelseaChelsea 37]

RDM left us in precariously on the edge of being knocked out of the Champions League. Defeated and drawing against teams we should, by all rights be beating. You're taking from this what you want to and creating your own narrative.

Alex was not talking about our current UCL campaign. He was saying about League Cup, CWC, top three finish.

So, I made that reply and you replied by quoting my comment. So, my comment had nothing to do with our 2012-2013 UCL run. It' was mainly about League Cup and CWC.

Defeated and drawing against teams we should, by all rights be beating . I believe you could have said this had there been a quality striker with us. Also, away games at Shakthar and Juve are not so easy. I am looking forward to post-RDM era though. Eagerly waiting to see what 'Experienced' Rafa can give us which RDM could not have given us.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

It isn't ridiculous to think these players could be part of our club going forward, but we should be cautious with them. i think your final sentence is completely out of step with what everyone at the club envisions for Chelsea going forward. I think there will be a mix of players bought in who are already established, players who are bought in from other club's academies and then loaned out (de Bruyne, Courtois etc.) and then players who come up through the ranks (McEachran, Chalobah, Loftus-Cheek).

That is the sensible approach and that's the one the club wants.

But it's not going to happen. Look at this season. We have massive holes all over the pitch. It's the perfect season to be playing our youngsters. Sturridge who was excellent on loan at a Premier League side and then was our leading scorer last season can't get into games even though our first-choice striker has been awful. We have no real second striker and we still loan out Lukaku. We have no central midfielders and we still loan out De Bruyne and McEachran. This is the least depth Chelsea are likely to have for years and our youngsters still can't get into the squad in a rebuilding year, what chance do they have down the line when we buy reinforcements? We've been chasing midfielders like Modric and Moutinho. McEachran isn't going to get in ahead of these sorts of players. You think Islam Feruz is going to challenge Falcao or Cavani or whatever world-class striker we buy? You think Roman will panic over poor results but let unproven young players make mistakes? Not a chance. Roman has always spent to buy talent and will continue to do so.

The proof is in the pudding. Until we actually start to give young players a real chance to make the team, I am going to consider the academy a breeding ground for future transfers. There are teams that develop younger players and teams that don't. Last week, ManU had 6 players on their squad that were homegrown. Chelsea had one. If this winter and next summer, instead of spending 80M pounds or whatever, we just rely on our youngsters, I'll agree with you. I'm not holding my breath.

[ulsterchelsea 3,213]

I've been following CFC home and away since the ''glory'' days of 1976. Loved it, despite some awful teams, crap stadiums and rubbish treatment from police and stewards. We I board the train in Sussex with my mates to head to the game, it's as exciting as when I was a teenager.

That said, after the dreadful way that Di Matteo was treated and then to hire Benetiz I'm ashamed and angry at our club. I shall go to the Nordsjaelland game to protest and that will be my last game this season. The owner and his board of muppet yes-men clearly have no regard or respect for the fans. We are the heart and soul that Roman can't buy!

won't make a button of difference mate but good luck to you. Wouldn't personally be my stance but can't fault you

[Tomo 21,681]

But it's not going to happen. Look at this season. We have massive holes all over the pitch. It's the perfect season to be playing our youngsters. Sturridge who was excellent on loan at a Premier League side and then was our leading scorer last season can't get into games even though our first-choice striker has been awful. We have no real second striker and we still loan out Lukaku. We have no central midfielders and we still loan out De Bruyne and McEachran. This is the least depth Chelsea are likely to have for years and our youngsters still can't get into the squad in a rebuilding year, what chance do they have down the line when we buy reinforcements? We've been chasing midfielders like Modric and Moutinho. McEachran isn't going to get in ahead of these sorts of players. You think Islam Feruz is going to challenge Falcao or Cavani or whatever world-class striker we buy? You think Roman will panic over poor results but let unproven young players make mistakes? Not a chance. Roman has always spent to buy talent and will continue to do so.

The proof is in the pudding. Until we actually start to give young players a real chance to make the team, I am going to consider the academy a breeding ground for future transfers. There are teams that develop younger players and teams that don't. Last week, ManU had 6 players on their squad that were homegrown. Chelsea had one. If this winter and next summer, instead of spending 80M pounds or whatever, we just rely on our youngsters, I'll agree with you. I'm not holding my breath.

Which homegrown players did United have? Welbeck? Rooney? Ferdinand? all of them were either brought or not trusted until they had a full premier league season on loan.

You say Fergie is good with academy players, then why didn't he give two academy defenders a chance instead of splashing £30m combined on Smalling and Jones. Why didn't he give an academy forward a chance instead of splashing out £30 on Rooney? At top clubs challenging for trophies there is too much pressure to randomenly promote academy players, even for some one who's job security is as high as Fergie's who is still living off that freak golden generation he's produced nothing but the odd squad player since then, Fletcher aside, yes Welbeck and Cleverly, but he didn't promote them randomenly, he didn't trust them properly until they proved themself's on loan in the Premier League and if our academy players want to stand a chance here, they need to do the same.

We could become a model where we do play every half decent academy player in the first team, but not only will we be a mid table club, we would lose them by the time their 22.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Pointless comment because none of those managers came to CFC off the back of those teams mentioned. They started out with those smaller sides, and went on to have a further incremental step in their managerial careers before coming to us. RDM never got that next step.

RDM left us precariously on the edge of being knocked out of the Champions League (relying on other teams to help us qualify no less.). Defeated and drawing against teams we should, by all rights, be beating. You're taking from this what you want to and creating your own narrative.

Wow...we didn't every game we should have won??? That's horrible. We should fire every coach who does that!!! (which is every single coach) This is the exact ridiculous expectations fans have. It's so annoying. "He should have made this substitution", "he should have played this formation" like there's some sort of magic formula to winning. Sometimes, it's just the players. Everyone wants to be the manager and because their formations and tactics never actually get tested, they are never wrong...and even when they are implemented and don't work, you can just blame some other aspect of the managing. From January through March 2006, Chelsea drew at home to Charlton, tied Villa and Birmingham City away, lost to Fulham, Blackburn, Middlesbrough, and Newcastle. We dropped points in 7 of our last 16 games. All of them winnable. Was Mourinho over his head? Was he tactically unaware because we dropped points to teams we shouldn't have? We had a far better team, facing much worse competition and we had much less excuse for losing. Mourinho should have been sacked then.

And as for the first part, it's pertinent. You don't need to get a manager who has managed a big club before. You just need a manager who wins. Our only to visits to the CL finals were under Di Matteo and Grant our two least experienced managers. All managers start somewhere and feeling like you need to get a big name is just insecurity.

[ChelseaChelsea 37]

@ Toronto,

Well said. Also consider Real's early season performance in La Liga. And then recent performance in UCL especially against Dortmund. They have finished as Group runners-up.

[The only place to be 11,313]

But it's not going to happen. Look at this season. We have massive holes all over the pitch. It's the perfect season to be playing our youngsters. Sturridge who was excellent on loan at a Premier League side and then was our leading scorer last season can't get into games even though our first-choice striker has been awful. We have no real second striker and we still loan out Lukaku. We have no central midfielders and we still loan out De Bruyne and McEachran. This is the least depth Chelsea are likely to have for years and our youngsters still can't get into the squad in a rebuilding year, what chance do they have down the line when we buy reinforcements? We've been chasing midfielders like Modric and Moutinho. McEachran isn't going to get in ahead of these sorts of players. You think Islam Feruz is going to challenge Falcao or Cavani or whatever world-class striker we buy? You think Roman will panic over poor results but let unproven young players make mistakes? Not a chance. Roman has always spent to buy talent and will continue to do so.

The proof is in the pudding. Until we actually start to give young players a real chance to make the team, I am going to consider the academy a breeding ground for future transfers. There are teams that develop younger players and teams that don't. Last week, ManU had 6 players on their squad that were homegrown. Chelsea had one. If this winter and next summer, instead of spending 80M pounds or whatever, we just rely on our youngsters, I'll agree with you. I'm not holding my breath.

Our youngsters simply aren't ready yet. That crop I'm talking about are still a season away from being ready at least. In my view we're in uncharted territory because we've never had a crop like this, which makes sense because the academy is relatively new in it's current form.

Chucking youngsters into a team that is struggling in some areas but still needs to qualify for the Champions League would be a big mistake. We aren't Liverpool who aren't targeting a top four finish.

We're essentially in a holding pattern. That's why we sent so many kids out on loan, so they could come back next season with some experience under their belts. From what I've seen, read and heard about them, a few of them will be straight into the squad.

I absolutely believe McEachran has the skill and vision to be our Modric. It's the physical side of the game he struggles with, but at Boro he's improved on these elements.

Chalobah looks to have everything he needs to be a Premier League player. He's stepped up to meet every challenge he's had in his short career and could be something very special indeed. Feruz has everything too. There's no guarantee with any young player but let's not pretend this is Jody Morris, Mark Nicholls, David Hopkin and Doooooobs.

And as for the first part, it's pertinent. You don't need to get a manager who has managed a big club before. You just need a manager who wins. Our only to visits to the CL finals were under Di Matteo and Grant our two least experienced managers. All managers start somewhere and feeling like you need to get a big name is just insecurity.

Clearly our owner does need a 'name'. He wants another Mourinho, and he sees Guardiola as that guy.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

The understanding here needs to be that plainly this: The board and Roman never wanted Di Matteo to lead this rejuvenation for this squad. It was a mere obligation for them to hire Di Matteo because of his successes last season, and I think that's something we should've seen in hindsight. It's basically putting it this way, had Avram Grant won the Champions League in 2008 the same thing would've happened.. The sequence would've been identical.

Of course we have the right to be angry, frustrated and disappointed at the complexity of these issues at our club. This club's been through the brink of liquidation to vast wealth that some of us never fathomed. We've been through the heartbreak of Moscow to the jubilation of Munich. From the heartbreak of waving Mourinho away to the joy of the potential of Villas-Boas.

My point is, a lot changes in football. Finances, players, management even ownership.. But the fans must be the ones who unite and stick with the club through all that. The fans still make this club, irrespective of the board's decisions. The fans have a large say on club's dealings (case & point: CPO saga). We have to believe in this club, believe in the owner & believe in ourselves as fans to get us through all this.

Carefree wherever we may be.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

^^

Brilliantly said

[Muzchap 8,966]

Yeah for a thread Entitled

Respect the Fans...

Shouldn't we Respect each other first?

[RamiCFC9 258]

You seem to think that we played shit because of Di Matteo. Are you genuinely stupid enough to think this? We were winless in 3 games. We had won 2 of our last 8 games. It is known as a blip and we seem to have one every year during Autumn/Winter. Why would we end up with zero trophies because we had been on a blip? We were still 3rd in the Premier League, in the Quarter Finals of the Capital One Cup and if our players had not thrown away a 2 goal lead against Juventus we would be in a good position to qualify for the last 16 of the Champions League.

You are in absolutely no position to criticise other people as fans. As zolayes has said, you posts make it so obvious that you are a gloryhunter, I will give RDM more support than other managers that we have sacked because of the poor treatment the board gave him when they sacked a Chelsea legend. You probably wouldn't care for him as a player because you probably didn't give 2 fucks when we were a midtable team.

Once again Ill say Iam little disappointed RDM wasn't here long enough for all to see this wasn't a "blip" but the guy was plainly clueless.It's ok however, Robbie still has good image, you still have your delusions and we have a 10x better manager and Iam happy with that.When I started watching football regularly, Chelsea already were bought by Roman and were already top team.The difference between new and old fans is that, the younger generation doesn't take fails as lightly as the old ones and there's nothing wrong with that as far as Iam concerned.Big teams always have fans who have big expectations.It's like in family, good parents are never happy unless the kid has straight 'A's.If they are happy then they'll trap the kid in the prison of mediocrity wich all you "old" Chelsea fans know too well.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

You say Fergie is good with academy players, then why didn't he give two academy defenders a chance instead of splashing £30m combined on Smalling and Jones. Why didn't he give an academy forward a chance instead of splashing out £30 on Rooney? At top clubs challenging for trophies there is too much pressure to randomenly promote academy players, even for some one who's job security is as high as Fergie's who is still living off that freak golden generation he's produced nothing but the odd squad player since then, Fletcher aside, yes Welbeck and Cleverly, but he didn't promote them randomenly, he didn't trust them properly until they proved themself's on loan in the Premier League and if our academy players want to stand a chance here, they need to do the same.

You're trying to argue that Fergie is not good at developing players because sometimes he chooses not to use academy players? Being good at developing talent doesn't mean that you always develop every single player and you don't buy anybody, it just means that you can develop some. It's like saying "if he's so good at free kicks, why did he miss the net last week"? Sometimes, he realises that the academy players aren't good enough and he has to buy someone, often even.That doesn't mean he's bad at developing talent. I'm not particularly praising Fergie anyway. I'm just pointing out that there's a model that mixes in youth and one that buys its talent. (Barcelona versus Real Madrid too). We have not developed a single starter since John Terry. That's 15 years ago. The second best player to come out of our academy since then is probably Carlton Cole and he's not even a Premier League-caliber player. It's not just about the academy. ManU are constantly buying younger players and giving them opportunities. Chelsea would never have given the opportunity for Ronaldo to develop over a few years. Ronaldo scored 9 goals in his first two seasons. When was the last time Chelsea allowed a young player to struggle and play regularly? Again, you look at us this season. We will never have a better opportunity to play our young players and we aren't.

Take someone like Nick Powell. Fergie will work him into 15 games or so this season and more next season if he responds. Even with their surplus of strikers, Welbeck will still probably play in 30 games. Smalling and Evans will get a lot of time. That's what they do (and I should stress, not just them, pretty much every club except us and City). That's what we don't do and never will do. We could have kept McEachran at Chelsea. We could have kept De Bruyne. We could have played them with some regularity. We didn't.

Here are our league appearances in the league by unproven young players

2011-2012-Lukaku-1 start, 7 subs, Hutchinson-1 start, 1 sub, Romeu-11 starts, 5 subs, Bertrand-6 starts, 1 sub, McEachran-0 starts, 2 subs

2010-2011-Sturridge-0 starts, 10 subs, Bertrand 0 starts, 1 sub. Kakuta-1 start, 4 subs. McEachran-1 start, 8 subs.

2009-2010-Sturridge-2 starts, 11 subs. Matic-0 starts, 2 subs. Hutchinson-0 starts 2 subs. Kakuta-0 starts 1 sub. Borini-0 starts, 4 subs. Van Aanholt-0 starts 2 subs. Bruma- 0 starts, 2 subs.

2008-2009-Di Santo-0 starts, 8 subs. Mancienne-2 starts, 2 subs. Stoch-0 starts, 5 subs.

Want to see the difference? ManU

2011-2012-Welbeck-23 starts, 7 subs, Smalling-14 starts, 5 subs. Cleverly-5 starts 5 subs, Jonny Evans-28 starts, 1 sub

Arsenal

2011-2012-Szcezesny-38 starts, Gibbs-15 starts, 1 sub, Oxlade-Chamberline-6 starts, 10 subs, Jenkinson-5 starts, 4 subs. Ramsay-27 starts, 7 subs.

This is the fundamental difference. We do not give playing time to unproven young players. We don't work players into our starting XI. We buy them. I don't know why anyone thinks that is suddenly going to change. It's just the way we operate.

[The only place to be 11,313]

2011-2012-Welbeck-23 starts, 7 subs, Smalling-14 starts, 5 subs. Cleverly-5 starts 5 subs, Jonny Evans-28 starts, 1 sub

Welbeck wasn't unproven. He played almost 30 games for Sunderland.

Smalling wasn't unproven. He played 20 games for Fulham, although he was a late developer.

Cleverley wasn't unproven. He played 50 games in the Championship and 25 games for Wigan. He was about 21 before becoming a United regular if I remember correctly.

Evans also had about 30 games at Sunderland.

The reason I think we're going to give our 'unproven' (except they'll be about as unproven as some of the players you mentioned) players a go is because they're more talented than the ones we've had at the club previously.

[Tomo 21,681]

@TorontoChelsea,

The United players you have mentioned.

Welbeck, not trusted by Fergie until he proved himself at Sunderland, likewise with Evans. Cleverly the same but at Wigan. Smalling played a good 2/3rds of a season at Fulham before going to United, do you think Fergie would hve brought him straight from Maidenhead?

When all those United players were unproven in the PL, they were getting as many starts as ours. Danny proved himself at Bolton and therefore AVB threw him in the limelight, if McEachran proved himself at Swansea he would be playing for us now, if he helps take Boro up then performs in the Prem next season, he will be straight in with us the same way Welbeck and Cleverly were at United. If Van Aanholt took his chance at Wigan, he would be here now, same with Mancienne at Wolves.

You also say we don't buy young players and help them develop, well didn't we sign Mikel as a teenager and keep faith in him and now he is one of the first names on the team sheet? Im pretty sure he started the 2007 FA Cup final as a 19 year old.

Although we sold him, Diarra was given opportunities by Mourinho which set him in good sted for the career he has gone on to have. Infact he got more opportunities for us than he did under saint youth developer Arsene.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Apparently Pep is ready to take brazil job...

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

@TorontoChelsea,

The United players you have mentioned.

Welbeck, not trusted by Fergie until he proved himself at Sunderland, likewise with Evans. Cleverly the same but at Wigan. Smalling played a good 2/3rds of a season at Fulham before going to United, do you think Fergie would hve brought him straight from Maidenhead?

When all those United players were unproven in the PL, they were getting as many starts as ours. Danny proved himself at Bolton and therefore AVB threw him in the limelight, if McEachran proved himself at Swansea he would be playing for us now, if he helps take Boro up then performs in the Prem next season, he will be straight in with us the same way Welbeck and Cleverly were at United. If Van Aanholt took his chance at Wigan, he would be here now, same with Mancienne at Wolves.

You also say we don't buy young players and help them develop, well didn't we sign Mikel as a teenager and keep faith in him and now he is one of the first names on the team sheet? Im pretty sure he started the 2007 FA Cup final as a 19 year old.

Although we sold him, Diarra was given opportunities by Mourinho which set him in good sted for the career he has gone on to have. Infact he got more opportunities for us than he did under saint youth developer Arsene.

I don't even know what you're arguing. I never said that Fergie brings players straight into the team. I'm saying that he brings them into the team. (And as for the "proving themselves" you are vastly overstating the success these players had prior to being in ManU. Smalling played 12 games at Fulham the year before. Jonny Evans played 15 games at Sunderland. Welbeck scored 6 goals in a season for Sunderland.) We don't. As for Mikel, 1) That was 6 years ago 2) Mikel was a 16M pound buy. He was very expensive player (one of the most expensive that summer), a situation much closer to say Oscar or Hazard than to any of the players we discussed. That's not developing a young player, that's buying a hot prospect. That we can do and do do. Do you really think that if McEachran has a good loan spell, he'll be back starting regularly for Chelsea? It seems incredible to me that anybody can believe that after watching this team. The only time I ever remember under Roman someone going out on loan and coming back and getting a starting job was Sturridge. And that's because he scored 8 goals in 12 games at Bolton and our only other player capable of playing RW in AVB's system was 32 and a poor fit for the system and Sturridge started scoring immediately. And even though Sturridge is really one of the the only young players we've developed in about 15 years, was our leading goal scorerer last season, we're still going to let him go because the club still feels he's not good enough. Chelsea buy their talent. That's the way it's always been since Roman has taken over. (And it's been a decade already. We have plenty of evidence of that by now. 10 years, no starters developed.)

[Tomo 21,681]

That we can do and do do. Do you really think that if McEachran has a good loan spell, he'll be back starting regularly for Chelsea? It seems incredible to me that anybody can believe that after watching this team. The only time I ever remember under Roman someone going out on loan and coming back and getting a starting job was Sturridge.

Because he's the only one that's gone on a PL loan and proved himself, if McEachran did a Wilshere at Swansea he would have got a shot this term.

[TheCount 146]

Another kneejerk thread, reading these you would think we are the only club that sacks managers.

Inter, Porto, Ajax, Bayern and Real have gone through manager's at the same rate we have since 2003 are you saying Moratti for example has no respect for the Inter fans?

The days of managerial stability is dying out, when Ferguson has retired they will be gone completely (atleast at top clubs winning things). If were lucky were find a long term manager, long term being 3-5 years, but ive learned to accept that any longer will never happen.

You seem to think that because other teams sack manager's it make's what roman has done ok,

Now, That, is fucking stupid, dont worry about what other teams are doing, worry about what were doing,

and what we just did to RDM was wrong. Simple as.

Also all the teams you've added as example's of sacking managers have done terribly in comparison to their pre-sacking-mulitble- manager's phases. So i dont really see what your trying to argue.