The Benitez Thread

[Sheva. 5,373]

Being solid defensively is important yes, shipping 3 against West Ham not so solid.

But my original point wasn't about sacking Rafa was it? It was about sticking with RDM in the first place if Rafa was the only option to bring in. Things weren't exactly a disaster but now things have a danger of spiraling out of control. I honestly believe Rafa is never going to be the right man for Chelsea with his ideas of playing football, whether the fans were onside with him or not.

2 wins out of 8 and likely elimination from the CL is as close to disaster as it gets for the current "Champions of Europe".

I do get your point though, but my point is - now that Rafa is here, why want him out, when there's really no good option to replace him?

[super_frank8 186]

I don't understand these 2 points. You can't say the players do not want to play for him since many of them have been playing like this since under RDM, so they didn't want to play for RDM either?

And his ideas are actually solid as far as i'm concerned. Someone posted an article that likened the way he wants Chelsea to play to how BVB play, but we just don't have a good enough squad atm, which is shocking looking at how much some of those players cost.

What she is saying is that Rafa is a frivolous incompetant delinquent of a manager who has not only lost his mind - but the dressing room along with it. You must be almost as deluded as the paella-guzzling cunt is if you can't see that yourself by now.

To be perfectly honest, his footballing ideals & philosophy have never been particularly 'solid' as you describe. At least not in comparison to truly great managers such as Mourinho, Fergie, Pep etc. who understand that winning at all costs is what matters most if you want to get the results that bring success - rather than playing for the draw due to unnecessary over-cautious conservatism. Rafa's convoluted beliefs & methods simply do not induce the aura of confidence & relentless never-say-die attitude that a truly dominant trophy-winning team should possess & exude constantly.

He is not in any way, shape, or form an astute or intellectually superior manager - unless you enjoy hopelessly negative strategies that seem to rely far more on individual brilliance & blissful fortune to save his blushes than actual tactical prowess.

& so I guess you'll go with the typical 'oh but he won the Champions League/he has a proven record' - & in response to that retort I will gladly tell you that he is the luckiest piece of shit to have ever won anything at all, let alone the CL, considering they shouldn't have even made it to that final at all if justice was in fact upheld in the football world. He basically makes RDM seem like the pinnacle of engenuity, which I'm not going to even for one second pretend is the indisputable truth.

You know why he could never win the league? Because the only thing that he excelled at was trying to not get beaten whilst frustrating the opponents into either submission - or rampage - & the only reason his Liverpool team ever recovered from the less-than ideal positions they constantly found themselves in due to this was down to Gerrard & Alonso pulling their shit together when it actually mattered most. & so once again he would ride his luck to the very end & pretend for all the world that it was all of his own doing & was always part of the plan all along - despite the fact being that when his luck has run out on him & he has failed to achieve expectations, it is only the players who didn't perform on the day. Don't think I've ever witnessed anyone spew such an absolute load of shit at press conferences over the years...

& seriously - who in their right sane mind would even attempt to make us play anything like Dortmund when they have one of the best finishers in the world to rely on for the majority of their goals in Robert Lewandowski - & we have the massive flapping vagina that is Fernando Torres up front?

No one but Rafa I guess.

[Kez 2,727]

2 wins out of 8 and likely elimination from the CL is as close to disaster as it gets for the current "Champions of Europe".

I do get your point though, but my point is - now that Rafa is here, why want him out, when there's really no good option to replace him?

Roman is expecting too much from this season, top 4 finish is the most important thing. I'm guessing it's because things started so well in the league & we were humiliated in the super cup & CL against Juve. Things have fell off lately but we always always seem to have this slump in November I have no idea why. Roman reacted too harshly sacking RDM, but we were never going to win the CL again this season.

My point wasn't about getting rid of rafa, but i'm pretty sure things aren't going to get any better under him, hence why we should have stuck with RDM who the players and fans trusted. I can only see things getting worse from now on in, and we have to put up with it and stick it out because of the decision to let RDM go. Top 4 feels like it is slipping away with every game.

[Sheva. 5,373]

1. What she is saying is that Rafa is a frivolous incompetant delinquent of a manager who has not only lost his mind - but the dressing room along with it. You must be almost as deluded as the paella-guzzling cunt is if you can't see that yourself by now.

2. & so I guess you'll go with the typical 'oh but he won the Champions League/he has a proven record' - & in response to that retort I will gladly tell you that he is the luckiest piece of shit to have ever won anything at all, let alone the CL, considering they shouldn't have even made it to that final at all if justice was in fact upheld in the football world. He basically makes RDM seem like the pinnacle of engenuity, which I'm not going to even for one second pretend is the indisputable truth.

3. You know why he could never win the league? Because the only thing that he excelled at was trying to not get beaten whilst frustrating the opponents into either submission - or rampage - & the only reason his Liverpool team ever recovered from the less-than ideal positions they constantly found themselves in due to this was down to Gerrard & Alonso pulling their shit together when it actually mattered most. & so once again he would ride his luck to the very end & pretend for all the world that it was all of his own doing & was always part of the plan all along - despite the fact being that when his luck has run out on him & he has failed to achieve expectations, it is only the players who didn't perform on the day. Don't think I've ever witnessed anyone spew such an absolute load of shit at press conferences over the years...

4. & seriously - who in their right sane mind would even attempt to make us play like Dortmund when they have one of the best finishers in the world to rely on for the majority of their goals in Robert Lewandowski - & we have the massive flapping vagina that is Fernando Torres up front? No one but Rafa I guess.

1. He lost the dressing room? lol. My point previously stands, many of our players have been under-performing since under RDM, so does that mean he lost the dressing room too?

2. No i wasn't going to say that, but i'd say you need luck to win the CL. Pep needed huge luck to knock us out and win his first one. RDM needed luck to knock out Barca and somehow win the CL in another team's home stadium. Man utd needed luck to beat us in the final etc.

3. Didn't he win the league in Spain?

4. That's right, but what way can we successfully play exactly without a proper striker? at the beginning of the season we were fortunate we had Hazard and Mata carrying us, now they have both slowed down and so has the team, and one of the main reasons is we don't have a striker we can depend on for goals.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Roman is expecting too much from this season, top 4 finish is the most important thing. I'm guessing it's because things started so well in the league & we were humiliated in the super cup & CL against Juve. Things have fell off lately but we always always seem to have this slump in November I have no idea why. Roman reacted too harshly sacking RDM, but we were never going to win the CL again this season.

My point wasn't about getting rid of rafa, but i'm pretty sure things aren't going to get any better under him, hence why we should have stuck with RDM who the players and fans trusted. I can only see things getting worse from now on in, and we have to put up with it and stick it out because of the decision to let RDM go. Top 4 feels like it is slipping away with every game.

Several managers recently have lost their job due to the November slump, RDM is just another victim.

He was fired quicker than all the others though, and that probably highlights how Roman didn't trust him.

[Kez 2,727]

Several managers recently have lost their job due to the November slump, RDM is just another victim.

He was fired quicker than all the others though, and that probably highlights how Roman didn't trust him.

It baffles me how he couldn't trust the guy who won us the CL for at least one season yet he trusts rafa to perform another miracle in 6 months. Was 6 months extra really too much to ask for RDM? I think the fans would have been able to accept that he would go at the end of the season for Pep. We all know this was always his plan.

[Henrique 9,133]

Right so thats ok then. Fuck him. I dont want some twat who had a few lucky cup games.You are in a select minority, and youre entitled to your opinion but 100%, no proper Chelsea fan wants him, or youre playing devils advocate

-Abramovich is probably thinking what the fuck have I done ? Hes now running out of options as Ray Wilkins said. Wednesday he'll get a bit of slack as we beat the Danes, but hes on his way sooner than later

I really dont care if the manager is Lucky Twat, Fat Waiter, John Lennon, Paul McCartney or Bono Vox, as long as the guy is doing a decent job, RDM was doing an awful job, sorry if it hurt your feellings, but the matches against Shaktar and Atlético were typical matches were a team was beaten because there was no team, but a bunch of players on the pitch. I think in 2 or 3 matches Chelsea looked a solid team.

If this form remains in coming months, I will be here to ask for Benitez' head, but people here are even saying RDM is a better manager than Benitez, when the italian is not even a manager.

[Sheva. 5,373]

It baffles me how he couldn't trust the guy who won us the CL for at least one season yet he trusts rafa to perform another miracle in 6 months. Was 6 months extra really too much to ask for RDM? I think the fans would have been able to accept that he would go at the end of the season for Pep. We all know this was always his plan.

Yeah me also, RDM had his negatives, but i had no problem with him staying for the rest of the season, even with the way we were playing.

[Henrique 9,133]

It baffles me how he couldn't trust the guy who won us the CL for at least one season yet he trusts rafa to perform another miracle in 6 months. Was 6 months extra really too much to ask for RDM? I think the fans would have been able to accept that he would go at the end of the season for Pep. We all know this was always his plan.

RDM got much more than six months, and during his ternure I failed to see Chelsea playing as strong team, one or another game aside. I remember FA Cup final, Chelsea were leading 2-0, then in the 2nd half Liverpool just dominated the game, and it was almost 2-2.

To other side if you give a guy like RDM this job, you cant expect him to do much better than that, so why give him the job?

I have to say I perhaps it was the first time Roman got it wrong, but I just dont get people claiming RDM is a gret coach.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Some of my comments on the hot discussion:

1. Benitez is a proved coach, he is not one of the very best, but still a great coach. There is no need to diminish his honors or his failures.

2. RDM deserved (more than needed) one year. He wasnt an excellent coach but he was improving and had the players and fans admiration.

3. Roman wanted a change because he saw something wrong (he isnt known for his patience either), that does not mean he hates the fans or need to go out!

4. By appointing Rafa he thought it would improve, it is proving to be a very bad decision. Lets not overreact and wait. Any manager deserves time, even if he is a fat spanish waiter.

5. Our problem lies beyond the manager, dont try to blame everything on the coach (RDM or Benitez).

[robdog 2,084]

I have to say I perhaps it was the first time Roman got it wrong, but I just dont get people claiming RDM is a great coach.

As you pointed out in your earlier post, RDM wasn't a great coach, but he wasn't doing that bad. The team was in 3rd, advanced in the League Cup & was about to embark to the CWC as favorites. So the wins @ Emirates or 3 point lane don't count? The knee jerk decision wasn't needed in Nov.

Our problem lies beyond the manager, don't try to blame everything on the coach (RDM or Benitez).

This shows how The Board is not in contact w/ the supporters. Their belief was that if rafa started to win, then the fans would accept him. Maybe rafa should have apologized for his comments as l'puke gaffer. I guess he thought CFC fans have short memories or he thought they were plastic. He was wrong. So I guess we have to live w/ this poor decision by the board. Sucks to be CFC fan atm.

[Kez 2,727]

RDM got much more than six months, and during his ternure I failed to see Chelsea playing as strong team, one or another game aside. I remember FA Cup final, Chelsea were leading 2-0, then in the 2nd half Liverpool just dominated the game, and it was almost 2-2.

To other side if you give a guy like RDM this job, you cant expect him to do much better than that, so why give him the job?

I have to say I perhaps it was the first time Roman got it wrong, but I just dont get people claiming RDM is a gret coach.

Yeah there were problems under RDM, I think these problems have been doubled by bringing Benitez in though. He's got one hell of a job on his hands to rescue this season. I just cannot see it happening though. Obviously Roman ended up in a position of having to give RDM the job. The timing of this season & pep's sabbatical fucked Romans plans up. I just think he could have stuck with him till the end of the season & got a top 4 finish parted with robbie & hired pep as expected. We can only hope that rafa has a plan, I'm not convinced though.

[Tomo 21,751]

First loss to West Ham since 2002 and not winning a league game in. 7 games since 1995.

Fucking hell we should get Hoddle in to advise......

You can't blame Rafa on that one, Jose fucked up long unbeaten records against Fulham, Spurs and City that spanned over a decade.

[Strike 7,516]

RDM got much more than six months, and during his ternure I failed to see Chelsea playing as strong team, one or another game aside. I remember FA Cup final, Chelsea were leading 2-0, then in the 2nd half Liverpool just dominated the game, and it was almost 2-2.

To other side if you give a guy like RDM this job, you cant expect him to do much better than that, so why give him the job?

I have to say I perhaps it was the first time Roman got it wrong, but I just dont get people claiming RDM is a gret coach.

yeah. the whole problem lies in the fact that RDM was given the job and not that he was fired. he was always going to get fired, sooner rather than later..i question Roman's judgement on hiring him in the first place. now all we have is an unbalanced team with a clueless manager. if rafa had begun his work in July, we would be much further along in the transition by now

[robdog 2,084]

if rafa had begun his work in July, we would be much further along in the transition by now

Maybe you didn't get the memo, CFC fans have never liked telly tubby. When the rumor started at the end of last season, the fans voiced their displeasure about the rumors. So why do you think the fans would accept telly tubby now?

[Muzchap 8,966]

How are we going to play with 2 up front? We don't even have 1 striker...when teams like United & Citeh have 3-4 quality strikers. Torres is beyond repair, Sturridge has fitness issues.

Ok, so when everybody else says play Moses up front on his own etc etc

That's acceptable?

I say play Torres + 1 other up front - Moses, Marin, Piazon etc

And now that's a stupid idea?

I'm well aware of our lack of Strikers, see my posts in the Summer - when I was asking for any striker and actually wanted Berbatov for 5 million...

4231 is not working! 4411 or 442 might, with a non recognised striker playing an advanced role to give the team another 'option' on an 'out' ball...

[The only place to be 11,313]

As you pointed out in your earlier post, RDM wasn't a great coach, but he wasn't doing that bad. The team was in 3rd, advanced in the League Cup & was about to embark to the CWC as favorites. So the wins @ Emirates or 3 point lane don't count? The knee jerk decision wasn't needed in Nov.

The team was in 3rd - should have probably been higher but we drew away at Swansea, drew at home to Liverpool and lost away to West Brom.

League Cup - We played our most important players against United (who rested their's) and then looked lethargic away to Swansea.

CWC - EVERY European team goes into it as favourites.

Champions League - you didn't mention this, but we're almost certainly out of that. It's a massive blow to the club, especially financially.

Super Cup - a 4-1 mauling against the third best team in Spain???

It wasn't a kneejerk decision. Roman probably had in mind a series of criteria that would necessitate Robbie being sacked and I have to guess that Robbie probably exceeded even Roman's worst case scenario.

[Strike 7,516]

Maybe you didn't get the memo, CFC fans have never liked telly tubby. When the rumor started at the end of last season, the fans voiced their displeasure about the rumors. So why do you think the fans would accept telly tubby now?

my point is not about supporting benitez. we should have taken the decision to appoint a proper manager in the summer and should have stuck with him

[diskoviolente 425]

It takes a working class lad like Terry, who learnt his craft on the Hackney marshes, ridiculed by the press, to motivate and cajole skilful players into the mindset to actually win the game

Its a shame that players can be ''worth'' so much yet dont have the balls and psychological steel to take a game by the scruff of the neck, and need to be motivated to realise its primarily about sticking the ball in the back of the fucking onion bag

To be fair though I think they will get there. Especially in Mata and Oscar we have two real fighters. But there is only so much they can do if the others don´t do enough. I think that this stage we are in is the real transitionional stage everyone was afraid of. Building a new team around new players. Shame that we don´t have the right manager to oversee that.

[Fulham Broadway 17,339]

To be fair though I think they will get there. Especially in Mata and Oscar we have two real fighters. But there is only so much they can do if the others don´t do enough. I think that this stage we are in is the real transitionional stage everyone was afraid of. Building a new team around new players. Shame that we don´t have the right manager to oversee that.

Agree about the transitional phase -but that has been foisted upon the club via shabolic decisions. The leadership skills, grit and determination on the pitch will be hard to replace when Captain, Leader, Legend hangs up his boots. Cant quite see Oscar or Mata in the same vein somehow. The continuity that is lacking in terms of managers, has been patched over by JTs stewardship on the pitch. With 11 managers, assistants and backroom staff, spinning through the revolving door he has been the bedrock that has inspired, geed up, and kept CFC on its feet. Something that shouldnt be over looked or underestimated.