Oscar

[Styles 9,790]

Technical ability on the ball is not even close. Oscar is one of the best in the league in that department. Oscar is also superior in footballing intelligence.

Oscar is capable of doing good or even great things with the ball occasionally but his normal output is the issue. He messes up so often that the things he's capable of doing do not compensate for his usual level in my opinion.

[Styles 9,790]

As a number 10 Willian is superior/at least on par with Oscar on everything bar finishing/killer instinct in the final third IMO. That simple.

Willian's basic level of technique is much higher in my opinion.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Oscar is capable of doing good or even great things with the ball occasionally but his normal output is the issue. He messes up so often that the things he's capable of doing do not compensate for his usual level in my opinion.

Judge him on the next season, now he's had a pre season, if he tails off again there will be no excuses.

[Special Juan 27,421]

He needs to have a season of epic proportions for me, and I don't think he has it in him. Not only that but if we do add someone like Sterling then the front 4 select themselves.

[yuvala 2,167]

Really hope he can surprise us all next season.

He's capable of very good things.

Don't really know what it is that makes him play so bad sometimes..

[kellzfresh 7,229]

When someone doesn't have much dribbling or speed in attack, they tend to have more vision like Mata, silva, KdB. Oscar needs to develop this part of his game. He doesn't give enough through passes or vertical passes to me, too many sideway passes that don't lead to chances created.

I was willing to give him time because midfielders tend to develop later in their careers, but hopefully it happens this season for him.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

Selling him would be a tragic mistake, unless we get an extraordinary offer (50m+). People need to realize here we don't need to sell Oscar to be able to afford a top replacement. Even if Oscar is not going to start every game, the effect he has on the depth of our team + he is pretty talented to say the least makes it worth keeping him.

That being said, taking in the fact this is the first season he doesn't get worked like a dog prior to and actually has a proper pre-season, if he doesn't manage to perform well and consistently, he should be sold. However, I'm very optimistic he can really evolve this season and improve massively consistent wise.

Let's believe the pre-season will prevent Oscar to be completely drained out by the second half of the season and we will get to see him at top form consistently throughout the year. Like someone said few pages ago, watching Oscar on form is basically Football Porn.

[didierforever 7,349]

I also think you're missing the point.

Going on vacation and having 3-4 weeks totally outside of football, then coming for preseason frech physically and mentally have no price, you haven't experienced professionnal football so I can understand, neither did I, but this is quite basic, all of us have been thinking these for a few years now and when Mourinho suddenly comes in 2015 and suggests that, i guess we can assume that the theory is pretty solid.

Otherwise, if he had known it's a lost cause just as you think, he would've sold him to Juve and probably got something out of the deal since one of Pogba/Vidal looks bound to leaving, why would he persist with a guy who just won't have a full season at the highest level.

I remember in his first season with us, he had played the Olympic Games, he was the player with the most games played accross Europe by the end of the season 2012/2013, then he went to the Confed Cup playing as a regular, then he played a full season with us, then the world Cup came, then he played without rotations for months again.

Now excuse me, but I have seen no one accross Europe do that in the last 3-4 years, also, comparing Willian and Oscar is irrelevant, since the former looks to have a better stamina generally, wasn't a regular starter for Brazil and joined us in 2013, when Oscar had already accumulated a season with 80+ matchs for club and country ( that's fucking insane ! )

Oh and yeah, 1000 minutes more is something dude, that's more than 10 games.

It's like you're comparing a starter within a team that plays regular Champions League football and another that doesn't ( remember Liverpool 2014 ? )

It's pretty safe to suggest physical condition has a lot to do with that.

believe me. i am not missing the point. the point is physical exhaustion. but oscar has played less minutes for chelsea than hazard, willian matic, JT, iva, azpi.

if oscar has played confed in 2012, the european players have played the euros. if oscar played the WC, so did most of our other squad. the 1000 minutes extra we are talking about is over 3 seasons. not one. thats 3/4 games a season. and that 1000 minute stat is only for oscar, i am sure the other players too would have played 500-1000 minutes of football. the european players played the qualifiers while the brazilian team were playing useless friendlies, should that count for something.

this "oscar being physically exhausted" is just another poor excuse for oscar's poor performances. some one said that he did not play a pre-season last year (not entirely true) so his body was not well conditioned in jan (really?) and thus his poor show. did not willian have the exact same schedule as oscar?

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

believe me. i am not missing the point. the point is physical exhaustion. but oscar has played less minutes for chelsea than hazard, willian matic, JT, iva, azpi.

if oscar has played confed in 2012, the european players have played the euros. if oscar played the WC, so did most of our other squad. the 1000 minutes extra we are talking about is over 3 seasons. not one. thats 3/4 games a season. and that 1000 minute stat is only for oscar, i am sure the other players too would have played 500-1000 minutes of football. the european players played the qualifiers while the brazilian team were playing useless friendlies, should that count for something.

this "oscar being physically exhausted" is just another poor excuse for oscar's poor performances. some one said that he did not play a pre-season last year (not entirely true) so his body was not well conditioned in jan (really?) and thus his poor show. did not willian have the exact same schedule as oscar?

Where were you when Willian was underperforming in the first half of the season?

You and I both know that had he not got injured at Arsenal and then in training he'd have had similar minutes to the aforementioned players. He only got dropped for one or two games and often was reinstated by half time because Ramires fucked up the team balance so badly. By the way, when he was on the pitch at Arsenal before he got KO'd, he was one of the best players on the pitch.

He's 23 years old. Willian is 26. Turan is 28. Oscar like it or not has fantastic potential (as a youngster some reckoned the was better than Eden) and therefore it'd be fucking stupidity to get rid of him in favour of an older, slower player who is not better than him now in any department while being 5 or 6 years older.

If he fucks up this season, then I agree, he should become a bench boy. But until then I see no reason why you hate him so much as a player. Especially when there are no better replacements on the market.

[didierforever 7,349]

Where were you when Willian was underperforming in the first half of the season?

You and I both know that had he not got injured at Arsenal and then in training he'd have had similar minutes to the aforementioned players. He only got dropped for one or two games and often was reinstated by half time because Ramires fucked up the team balance so badly. By the way, when he was on the pitch at Arsenal before he got KO'd, he was one of the best players on the pitch.

He's 23 years old. Willian is 26. Turan is 28. Oscar like it or not has fantastic potential (as a youngster some reckoned the was better than Eden) and therefore it'd be fucking stupidity to get rid of him in favour of an older, slower player who is not better than him now in any department while being 5 or 6 years older.

what potential? the potential thats been talked up about when he was 21? when he was 22? when he was 23? i dont see any improvement in him when he started playing with us 3 years ago. another poor excuse. if we so want to take out potential then lets play boga and musonda.

the point is he DID get injured. he got injured and did not get those minutes. just like the season before, where he fell off the wagon. the oscar that was injured and unable to play most of our games towards the end of the season had no problem playing the WC.

as for turan not being better.. thats just LOL talk. turan's close control, holding on to the ball is light years ahead of oscar. turan's passing and dribbling is also way better. oscar has better goal scoring, and pace than turan, thats it!!! please watch some of ATM's matches from the last season or the season where atm won the liga and were the finalists. he was just brilliant. something which can be said about oscar for like 5-10 matches per season. also, who is talking about getting rid of oscar. turan is a RW. oscar is a CAM. hazard-willian/oscar-willian/turan thats how we would line up. or we going to simply blindly keep hoping for oscar's supposed "potential" to come through one fine day and reject any player who threatens his position?

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

what potential? the potential thats been talked up about when he was 21? when he was 22? when he was 23? i dont see any improvement in him when he started playing with us 3 years ago. another poor excuse. if we so want to take out potential then lets play boga and musonda.

the point is he DID get injured. he got injured and did not get those minutes. just like the season before, where he fell off the wagon. the oscar that was injured and unable to play most of our games towards the end of the season had no problem playing the WC.

as for turan not being better.. thats just LOL talk. turan's close control, holding on to the ball is light years ahead of oscar. turan's passing and dribbling is also way better. oscar has better goal scoring, and pace than turan, thats it!!! please watch some of ATM's matches from the last season or the season where atm won the liga and were the finalists. he was just brilliant. something which can be said about oscar for like 5-10 matches per season. also, who is talking about getting rid of oscar. turan is a RW. oscar is a CAM. hazard-willian/oscar-willian/turan thats how we would line up. or we going to simply blindly keep hoping for oscar's supposed "potential" to come through one fine day and reject any player who threatens his position?

Yes, that potential. Sorry, how good was Turan when he was 23? Oh wait, he was playing for Galatasary in a weak league. Oscar is playing for a title winning team in one of the toughest leagues in the world at the age of 23 but yet somehow he will never grow?

You're trying to tell me that Oscar is a bad player...because he got injured, but recovered in time to go to the world cup and reach the semi finals?

It's not blind hope either. There's no reason why Oscar won't keep getting better. Jose thinks he will. All Chelsea fans outside of here think he will. Brazil think he will. Juve thinks he will. If he's shit next season then I'll say he's shit. But in his first season here (when he was 21) he played something like 70 games for club and country.

Would Turan-Oscar-Hazard work do you reckon?

Edit; No, I lied about the games. It was actually over 80.

[didierforever 7,349]

Yes, that potential. Sorry, how good was Turan when he was 23? Oh wait, he was playing for Galatasary in a weak league. Oscar is playing for a title winning team in one of the toughest leagues in the world at the age of 23 but yet somehow he will never grow?

You're trying to tell me that Oscar is a bad player...because he got injured, but recovered in time to go to the world cup and reach the semi finals?

It's not blind hope either. There's no reason why Oscar won't keep getting better. Jose thinks he will. All Chelsea fans outside of here think he will. Brazil think he will. Juve thinks he will. If he's shit next season then I'll say he's shit. But in his first season here (when he was 21) he played something like 70 games for club and country.

Would Turan-Oscar-Hazard work do you reckon?

Edit; No, I lied about the games. It was actually over 80.

mikel was playing for chelsea when he was 23.22,21,24,25. where was matic? where was makelele? oh right celta vigo. so whats your point?

no, i am telling you to stop making stupid excuses. oscar got injured against arsenal. so what? a lot of players get injured. you want me to add the minutes he would have played but did not cos of the injury? as for the season before, i am a chelsea fan. if you believe everything that jose says. http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/jose-mourinho-world-cup-distraction-contributing-to-oscars-disappointing-chelsea-form-9322134.html, then believe this too. that too at a point where our title was on the line

so you are saying the number of games that he played 3 years ago is affecting him right now? the fact that he has played lesser amount of time than willian, hazard, matic, JT, iva, azpi in the last 2 seasons count for nothing? will those games that he played in 12-13 also affect his performances in 15-16 or there affect ended when the 14-15 season ended?

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

mikel was playing for chelsea when he was 23.22,21,24,25. where was matic? where was makelele? oh right celta vigo. so whats your point?

no, i am telling you to stop making stupid excuses. oscar got injured against arsenal. so what? a lot of players get injured. you want me to add the minutes he would have played but did not cos of the injury? as for the season before, i am a chelsea fan. if you believe everything that jose says. http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/jose-mourinho-world-cup-distraction-contributing-to-oscars-disappointing-chelsea-form-9322134.html, then believe this too. that too at a point where our title was on the line

so you are saying the number of games that he played 3 years ago is affecting him right now? the fact that he has played lesser amount of time than willian, hazard, matic, JT, iva, azpi in the last 2 seasons count for nothing? will those games that he played in 12-13 also affect his performances in 15-16 or there affect ended when the 14-15 season ended?

No, but I just can't grasp how you can say Oscar's bad just because he got injuries in 2 successive seasons. That is pathetic reasoning. Pretty sure that it wasn't criticism from him either really. He said "There are things you can't resolve" - World Cup fever gripped many of the players in the tournament last summer.

"I think he was our best player for months, from August to November or December. He was absolutely fantastic. And after that he was up and down," Mourinho explained."He arrived in the crucial moment of the season in a down. Injuries, couldn't train, was trying to arrive to the game but didn't, was a doubt for the game, the game was too big to play with a doubtful player, so he arrived in the crucial moment of the season in a low."

So basically Mourinho saying that he would have liked him to be available but was too doubtful. Also said that in the first half of that season he was our best player. And before you use that against me, I think every Oscar fan acknowleges he needs to be more consistent - it's most of the reason why so many of us are judging him this season coming with a proper pre season.

As for Mikel; he was never a starter for us (except 2010-12) and it's not the same situation at all. When Mikel was 23 he wasn't a defensive midfielder. When Matic was 23 he wasn't a starter but was for Benfica. As for Makalele...I can't comment. I don't know enough about his youth career. None of your examples are attacking midfielders. You should realise, though, that injuries permitting he would have played the full season.

He played 63 games in 13/14 for C & C. Admittedly this season he played far fewer than his squad mates (41 C&C) but for a 21/22 year old it was still a lot of games for a youth.

For comparison, Eden's amount of games at 21, 22, 23 C & C

11/12: 57 (Oscar had 80 at the same age)

12/13: 71 (Oscar had 63)

13/14: 61 (41)

It's strange. Oscar has actually played less as he has got older. Had Oscar been fit for our last matches and for CA it would be closer to 55 but even then it's low. If it's overwork then next season those effects should be gone, if it's not then I'll agree with you.

[didierforever 7,349]

No, but I just can't grasp how you can say Oscar's bad just because he got injuries in 2 successive seasons. That is pathetic reasoning. Pretty sure that it wasn't criticism from him either really. He said "There are things you can't resolve" - World Cup fever gripped many of the players in the tournament last summer.

"I think he was our best player for months, from August to November or December. He was absolutely fantastic. And after that he was up and down," Mourinho explained."He arrived in the crucial moment of the season in a down. Injuries, couldn't train, was trying to arrive to the game but didn't, was a doubt for the game, the game was too big to play with a doubtful player, so he arrived in the crucial moment of the season in a low."

So basically Mourinho saying that he would have liked him to be available but was too doubtful. Also said that in the first half of that season he was our best player. And before you use that against me, I think every Oscar fan acknowleges he needs to be more consistent - it's most of the reason why so many of us are judging him this season coming with a proper pre season.

As for Mikel; he was never a starter for us (except 2010-12) and it's not the same situation at all. When Mikel was 23 he wasn't a defensive midfielder. When Matic was 23 he wasn't a starter but was for Benfica. As for Makalele...I can't comment. I don't know enough about his youth career. None of your examples are attacking midfielders. You should realise, though, that injuries permitting he would have played the full season.

He played 63 games in 13/14 for C & C. Admittedly this season he played far fewer than his squad mates (41 C&C) but for a 21/22 year old it was still a lot of games for a youth.

mikel in 2010 was 22, exact age that oscar is right now. also, what are you saying about injuries? where did i say getting injured makes him poor? why are you putting words in my mouth? he got injured. end of it. what else do you want me to do? like i asked previously? should i add the number of minutes to his playtime just cos he would have continued playing shit? so what if mikel is a DM? its an example of a player's growth and potential!!! its an example of a player playing at chelsea when he is 23 compared to a turk who was playing in turkey at 23. thats what my point is. it does not matter that arda was playing for gala. right now, he would make us a better team, he would definitely be the best RW out of willian, cuadrado, salah. the point then becomes, who is better at CAM between oscar and willian.

if u do agree about oscar's consistency, then what are we arguing about?

in 13-14, oscar played 3774 minutes for chelsea. willian played 3590 minutes for chelsea. why is the extra 180 minutes (2 games) such a massive issue. both had the same preseason too.

[JaKstone 307]

mikel in 2010 was 22, exact age that oscar is right now. also, what are you saying about injuries? where did i say getting injured makes him poor? why are you putting words in my mouth? he got injured. end of it. what else do you want me to do? like i asked previously? should i add the number of minutes to his playtime just cos he would have continued playing shit? so what if mikel is a DM? its an example of a player's growth and potential!!! its an example of a player playing at chelsea when he is 23 compared to a turk who was playing in turkey at 23. thats what my point is. it does not matter that arda was playing for gala. right now, he would make us a better team, he would definitely be the best RW out of willian, cuadrado, salah. the point then becomes, who is better at CAM between oscar and willian.

if u do agree about oscar's consistency, then what are we arguing about?

in 13-14, oscar played 3774 minutes for chelsea. willian played 3590 minutes for chelsea. why is the extra 180 minutes (2 games) such a massive issue. both had the same preseason too.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

mikel in 2010 was 22, exact age that oscar is right now. also, what are you saying about injuries? where did i say getting injured makes him poor? why are you putting words in my mouth? he got injured. end of it. what else do you want me to do? like i asked previously? should i add the number of minutes to his playtime just cos he would have continued playing shit? so what if mikel is a DM? its an example of a player's growth and potential!!! its an example of a player playing at chelsea when he is 23 compared to a turk who was playing in turkey at 23. thats what my point is. it does not matter that arda was playing for gala. right now, he would make us a better team, he would definitely be the best RW out of willian, cuadrado, salah. the point then becomes, who is better at CAM between oscar and willian.

if u do agree about oscar's consistency, then what are we arguing about?

in 13-14, oscar played 3774 minutes for chelsea. willian played 3590 minutes for chelsea. why is the extra 180 minutes (2 games) such a massive issue. both had the same preseason too.

Because the difference is that you think he's shit all the time, while I think that he's fantastic (for his age) when he gets on form. (not having a pre season might have something to do with that, we'll see) And because Willian last season was literally the reverse; shit first half, good second half. He's also older than Oscar, so should in theory be able to play more games with less effects.

As for being a DM mattering, it's because at DM you need a higher degree of physical development as opposed to technical ability, while at AM it's the other way round - therefore the development curves are different. See Matic's development at Benfica.

Also, if Turan does come here then surely it will be at the expense of somebody...

[didierforever 7,349]

Because the difference is that you think he's shit all the time, while I think that he's fantastic (for his age) when he gets on form. (not having a pre season might have something to do with that, we'll see) And because Willian last season was literally the reverse; shit first half, good second half. He's also older than Oscar, so should in theory be able to play more games with less effects.

As for being a DM mattering, it's because at DM you need a higher degree of physical development as opposed to technical ability, while at AM it's the other way round - therefore the development curves are different. See Matic's development at Benfica.

Also, if Turan does come here then surely it will be at the expense of somebody...

the "somebody" would undoubtedly be cuadrado or salah. why would we sell oscar?

no, i dont think he is shit all the time. but thats that. i think he is a good player but no where near what people hype him to be. when "player X" is on form, he will always be a joy to watch, even if player X = mikel. but the difference between a world class player or the way people expect oscar and his "potential" to carry out, is that those players are good even when not in form. they make the difference. when oscar is poor, he is poor.

fair enough point about DMs.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

the "somebody" would undoubtedly be cuadrado or salah. why would we sell oscar?

no, i dont think he is shit all the time. but thats that. i think he is a good player but no where near what people hype him to be. when "player X" is on form, he will always be a joy to watch, even if player X = mikel. but the difference between a world class player or the way people expect oscar and his "potential" to carry out, is that those players are good even when not in form. they make the difference. when oscar is poor, he is poor.

fair enough point about DMs.

I hope he'll get better or even just more consistent. He clearly has the potential, don't you think?

The crossroads is clearly coming up, though. If he does neither of the above next season he will be sold if the right players are available.