Oscar

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Oscar is not my number one choice, which is conflicting because I really like the guy and appreciate what a fully realised Oscar could bring to a team, I just don't think he's going to realise his potential.

But a moment of caution, it has been Oscar who has scored a lot of our best goals and has come up with moments of brilliance as much as others if not more this season.

This.

If I had a magic wand, I'll buy isco to replace oscar as that is my ideal Am. But until that level of quality is available we can't throw away our third highest goals contributer.

Both ericksen and coutinho lost the ball numerous times today in a somewhat open game...

on whoscored.. Coutinho had a 64 percent pass accuracy. Ericksen had 68 percent. Coutinho was dispossed 3x, while ericksen 2x. Coutinho had 1 key pass and ericksen had 0...

People complain about Oscar, yet, when they say these 2 names as replacements, it really baffles me. If it was silva, pogba, modric, or someone along that line, I can understand completely, even if they don't fit Jose's tactics that much. However, neither ericksen nor coutinho is an upgrade from oscar.

The thing with ericksen and coutinho is that they fall under the AMs that are terrible under pressure. Ericksen will practically kick the ball away if he is chased.

But quality like modric, thiago and isco are on another level because they can escape by dribbling easily or use their bodies to win a foul (Busquets way) rather than cheaply losing the ball.

This is the type of quality I'll gladly throw oscar under the bus for, because they have better vision and are better under pressure. But they are few and rare.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Is it now fashionable to slag off Oscar, then? I suppose so. Mikel is injured and Cahill actually had a good game on Saturday. Ivanovic scored so that spares him for criticism. No Filipe Luis so we can't mock him for being too offensively minded. Can't slag off Drogba too much because he's a legend. No penalty decisions or refereeing debacles to complain about, either. Leaves poor Ossie to feel the brunt of it. We're not satisfied unless we have someone or something to moan about.

I've said it before - you don't measure his productivity in terms of goals and assists, because he'll never be your Frank Lampard or Cesc Fabregas in those regards. He might be operating in the number ten position, but he plays so deep that effectively when we line up he might as well be operating next to Matic and Cesc might as well just stay between Eden and Willian. Oscar is a combative, tenacious little bastard who has one of the highest work rates I've ever seen in a young player.

If you want him to be more like Phil Coutinho, then he can, quite easily. Coutinho is by far the better dribbler but his decision making makes Willian or even Theo Walcott look like Iniesta in comparison. But that would mean us losing a massive degree of our defensive stability, and when we're playing with such a higher defensive block like we are this season we need every player to pull his weight defensively. Look at Liverpool - their front five do next to nothing in a defensive sense. They're entirely reliant on the three centre-backs and the two defensive midfielders to do all the dirty work. If you want us to do the same then that is more than possible. We only open up against the shit sides in the league. In every game where we've scored 3+ goals, Oscar has been outstanding in an attacking sense, with Swansea away being the best and most recent example. When we play with a tighter midfield, he knows he has to do a massive defensive job so you don't see that flair, spark and creative output you might otherwise see.

Face it, people. Under José he's never going to be the next Kaka. But under José he, and Chelsea, will win a fuckload of trophies. We could let him off the leash like we did in his first season under RDM/Rafa, and we'd get picked off by the big clubs and have to settle for third and another Europa League. I know what I'd choose. Every big side needs "mechanical" players who do their job and they do it well. Barcelona have Busquets; Bayern have Alonso; Real have Khedira (when he's fit); City have Fernandinho; United have Blind; Liverpool have Lucas. They are by no means the best players in their sides, but they do a job that allows the players around them more creative licence.

[manpe 10,861]

Barcelona have Busquets; Bayern have Alonso; Real have Khedira (when he's fit); City have Fernandinho; United have Blind; Liverpool have Lucas. They are by no means the best players in their sides, but they do a job that allows the players around them more creative licence.

I know what you mean and I somewhat agree with your post, but all the players you named are either defensive mids or B2B. Actually I view Oscar more as a b2b mid who's position on paper is the nr. 10, but in reality his role is different. Oscar (+Willian) makes it easier for Fabregas to advance. I've noticed a few times in defensive situations Willian and Oscar (both are basically b2b players) drop close to Cesc's zone when he's out of position or simply overloaded in his area. I've no doubt if both him and Willian were given more freedom, they would be less sloppy and more productive in attack and be viewed more as classical playmaker and winger. But we would be conceding shitloads as a result, and we all know this is not the Mourinho way.

[AndersonBLUE 819]

Back at the beginning of the season when I said Oscar was the weak link in the team I was slagged off big time. Fast forward to today and people have started to realize it. He has done nothing remarkable since, sure, he has made a couple assists, but he is not nearly consistent enough or has shown any signs of improvement. I could see it last season too. He has had arguably one good season with us so far. He better buck his ideas up sooner rather than later, sure his work rate is high but he does nothing with it. His passing is awful and seems worse when we are trying to build attacks. He seems a bit better when we are playing on the edge of the opponent's box, he actually looks comfortable, but anywhere else he is utterly average.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

i dont get what was wrong in REKIN's argument.

poster A said "oscar is way faster than firmino"

poster B gave the only stats available on pace anywhere to simply say that the difference in their pace is no where as much as he previously thought.

if someone actually read rekin's post, he does say that firmino is slightly slower but not as slow as people would have you believe.

as for people saying its easy to judge who is faster, well i cant do that for players with similar pace. i mean i know who is faster between JT and willian or who is faster between walcott and mertesacker, but i wont bet anything on who is faster between rambo and willian. all you can say is that they are fast and have similar paces.

But you can't use FM15 or FIFA as proof because clearly I've exposed why that theory is wrong. He would've been better off to just show me a clip where Firmino is running hard and point that out, similar to Oscar on our first goal against Villa.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

They are by no means the best players in their sides, but they do a job that allows the players around them more creative licence.

Pretty much everything you wrote culminates on this last piece right here and I think that's where some of his detractors have a hard time coming to grips with. They seem to think that because he's deployed as our ACM that his assignment is to be a playmaker or a traditional no.10.

Our playmakers are Cesc Fabregas and Hazard obviously they are the guys given the most freedom to create.

[Dylan_91 90]

I would love to see highlights of oscars last few games. Think it would be very interesting. He seems to lose the ball and break down so many attacks. I do quite like him though and think he plays much better from a deeper position. He really struggles in tight spaces.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I know what you mean and I somewhat agree with your post, but all the players you named are either defensive mids or B2B. Actually I view Oscar more as a b2b mid who's position on paper is the nr. 10, but in reality his role is different. Oscar (+Willian) makes it easier for Fabregas to advance. I've noticed a few times in defensive situations Willian and Oscar (both are basically b2b players) drop close to Cesc's zone when he's out of position or simply overloaded in his area. I've no doubt if both him and Willian were given more freedom, they would be less sloppy and more productive in attack and be viewed more as classical playmaker and winger. But we would be conceding shitloads as a result, and we all know this is not the Mourinho way.

That's what I'm trying to point out. I think you've said it better than me - Oscar, forget his position in the Sky infographic in the team line-up. He's effectively a B2B midfielder, as you say. Absolutely agree. I just think people get caught out by the fact he is "supposed" to be a CAM. So was Mikel, but José converted him into a defensive player. He's converting Oscar - a player he clearly loves from the fact he sold Mata and made Oscar his chosen third midfielder - into the sort of role Lampard operated in in his earlier years.

Pretty much everything you wrote culminates on this last piece right here and I think that's where some of his detractors have a hard time coming to grips with. They seem to think that because he's deployed as our ACM that his assignment is to be a playmaker or a traditional no.10.

Our playmakers are Cesc Fabregas and Hazard obviously they are the guys given the most freedom to create.

Agreed. As Manpe said, we could let Oscar/Willian "off the leash". Sometimes we do, against weaker sides, and we end up winning 5-0 or something along those lines (think how good WIllian was at Schalke away, for instance). But if we opened up against PSG, we'd concede a shitload. Sometimes you have to sacrifice a strength to cover up a weakness and that is what Mourinho does with his "defensive" duo of Oscar and Willian.

[didierforever 7,349]

But you can't use FM15 or FIFA as proof because clearly I've exposed why that theory is wrong. He would've been better off to just show me a clip where Firmino is running hard and point that out, similar to Oscar on our first goal against Villa.

fair enough, but i remember watching a video of an antonio valencia run which clocked him to be faster than usain bolt. so separate video clips would hardly have been the ideal source in this case too.

when comparing pace, there is no right or wrong but simply perception. for eg - i will again go back to the rambo-willian comparision. very hard to know who is the pacy one between them and i doubt if a couple of videos would be able to make up my mind.

[AndersonBLUE 819]

Agreed. As Manpe said, we could let Oscar/Willian "off the leash". Sometimes we do, against weaker sides, and we end up winning 5-0 or something along those lines (think how good WIllian was at Schalke away, for instance). But if we opened up against PSG, we'd concede a shitload. Sometimes you have to sacrifice a strength to cover up a weakness and that is what Mourinho does with his "defensive" duo of Oscar and Willian.

It's a fair point but Willian offers more in attack (even when we are playing more defensive) than Oscar does and he is better at tracking and defending, even closing down opponents. I would play Willian in the middle and Cuadrado on the right and drop Oscar considering his last performances. In fact I think Willian is the better player currently.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

fair enough, but i remember watching a video of an antonio valencia run which clocked him to be faster than usain bolt. so separate video clips would hardly have been the ideal source in this case too.

when comparing pace, there is no right or wrong but simply perception. for eg - i will again go back to the rambo-willian comparision. very hard to know who is the pacy one between them and i doubt if a couple of videos would be able to make up my mind.

we're never gonna be able to know for sure until we put them right next to each other and have them race. When I watch clips of Firmino, the thing that sticks out most, besides the amount of times he gives the ball away, is his lack of pace.

So what would be your deciding vote FM15 and FIFA? nah dude, its hard to come to a definitive conclusion but what do you trust, your eyes or a video game?

This has become asinine anyways. If we're to ever get back on topic I think we need to focus on what Oscar does for the team that may or may not show up in the stats and really start to hone in on what his actual tactical assignment is for Jose. We won't know for sure but given what he is doing and the fact that he gets picked to play time and again it would lead one to believe he is executing his role pretty good for the team.

So I'll start with you, what do you think Oscar is being asked to do for the team?

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

It's a fair point but Willian offers more in attack (even when we are playing more defensive) than Oscar does and he is better at tracking and defending, even closing down opponents. I would play Willian in the middle and Cuadrado on the right and drop Oscar considering his last performances. In fact I think Willian is the better player currently.

If this debate is now about Willian's suitability in the ACM role I will admit to wanting to see that with Hazard on the left and Cuadrado on the right. I think if Cuadrado can learn the defensive aspects of the right flank that could be a deadly attacking 3.

Having said that we paid 31m for Willian, he's in his prime and clearly has better technique. My problem with the Oscar gripe is no one seems willing to acknowledge what he does for the team and expect world class return for a guy we paid 19.35M for who isn't even in his prime years yet. Unrealistic in my opinion.

[manpe 10,861]

It's a fair point but Willian offers more in attack (even when we are playing more defensive) than Oscar does and he is better at tracking and defending, even closing down opponents. I would play Willian in the middle and Cuadrado on the right and drop Oscar considering his last performances. In fact I think Willian is the better player currently.

Yes, but it all depends on how Cuadrado will take on the "Willian role". If you have Fabregas and the amazing outside striker Ivanovic sharing the same side with you, you are either bound to be covered with dirt and sore feet, or the bench. And in Willian's case he HAS to up his productivity, because even though Oscar may not seem like much to replace, but he is still a player who can play shit but still be productive. When Willian plays shit, he simply plays shit.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Yes, but it all depends on how Cuadrado will take on the "Willian role". If you have Fabregas and the amazing outside striker Ivanovic sharing the same side with you, you are either bound to be covered with dirt and sore feet, or the bench. And in Willian's case he HAS to up his productivity, because even though Oscar may not seem like much to replace, but he is still a player who can play shit but still be productive. When Willian plays shit, he simply plays shit.

Its easier to get stats from the middle of the pitch in my estimation. I think Jose said as much about Oscar vs Mata last year too when Redcunt was comparing their production from the year before. To play the ACM role for Chelsea you have to produce goals and Oscar has been pretty good at that, I think if Willian went in there he'd bag a few too.

[didierforever 7,349]

So I'll start with you, what do you think Oscar is being asked to do for the team?

oscar is "supposed" to be our no.10, so i would think he will be asked to provide us the proper link up play which i no.10 should. hold on to the ball so that matic-cesc can join the attack, not screw up every counter by cheaply giving the ball away. he has done none of them. he has been a passenger most of the games he has played with little to no effect. even when he has got a goal, his performances have been awful (newcastle). while his workrate is good, he is still definitely not as good defensively as willian. all in all, oscar currently, is not even the best option as a no.10 for us. either of willian/cesc can easily displace him. jose already knows how poor he is in big matches (which he starts only if we got no option), and i think if he continues down this road, i will be suprised if he will be here next season.

people can point out to the "balance" that he provides, but thats just another excuse. like i said, the supposed "balance" that he provides can be provided as well by 2 options currently in our squad. this is his 3rd year in PL, and he has had a lot of time and gametime to get set, unfortunately there is no improvement in him, and infact, his consistency seems to be getting worse.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

oscar is "supposed" to be our no.10, so i would think he will be asked to provide us the proper link up play which i no.10 should.

So you think his tactical deployment is that of a traditional no.10? I don't. I think our playmakers or '10' is Hazard (not just because of his number) and Cesc to me those two fill the role of a traditional 10

[didierforever 7,349]

So you think his tactical deployment is that of a traditional no.10? I don't. I think our playmakers or '10' is Hazard (not just because of his number) and Cesc to me those two fill the role of a traditional 10

Hazard maybe but cesc not at all. Cesc has far more defensive reaponsibilities than oscar. Oscar's general position on the pitch is much higher up than cesc. He looks to be doing so much defensive work cos half the counters that we are exposed to are cos of his give aways. Cesc on the other hand has been a proper DLP for us this season. (I maybe understanding you wrong here if you meant to say that oscar's responsibilities are not those of a no.10). In that case what is his role in the team? Defensive cover against burnley and leicester and qpr? Cos I don't see jose employing him tactically in any big match which tells us that jose definitely doubts his defenaive abilities.

Oscar has additional defensive responsibilities (definitely more than hazard and understandable), but he is still our no.10 and I have no doubt jose expects goals and assists from him.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Hazard maybe but cesc not at all. Cesc has far more defensive reaponsibilities than oscar. Oscar's general position on the pitch is much higher up than cesc. He looks to be doing so much defensive work cos half the counters that we are exposed to are cos of his give aways. Cesc on the other hand has been a proper DLP for us this season. (I maybe understanding you wrong here if you meant to say that oscar's responsibilities are not those of a no.10). In that case what is his role in the team? Defensive cover against burnley and leicester and qpr? Cos I don't see jose employing him tactically in any big match which tells us that jose definitely doubts his defenaive abilities.

Oscar has additional defensive responsibilities (definitely more than hazard and understandable), but he is still our no.10 and I have no doubt jose expects goals and assists from him.

I think this is pretty obvious, to me at least. His job is to be the facilitator, to plug holes in our shape, press high and effectively, score goals, provide assists, win tackles and help initiate our counter. When he does this effectively, Hazard has more freedom to do what he does best and Cesc is given more license to get forward. The reason he doesn't play in the big games is quite clear to me, we don't press high up the pitch, we usually sit deep and have a compact midfield. In these instances we have a midfield three of Cesc, Matic and Ramires with Ramires the guy who usually leaks out on the right with Willian or Hazard jumping in the middle when we counter. Ramires is a near perfect box to box midfielder if you ask me.

If Jose was looking for a traditional number 10 (through balls, creativity, playmaker, goals, assists) then why did he let Mata leave or even DeBruyne for that matter? I don't want you to pretend to be a mind reader but please tell me why those two in particular(who by all accounts seem to be close to the prototypical 10) failed to make an impact in Jose's system?