Oscar

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Hazard maybe but cesc not at all. Cesc has far more defensive reaponsibilities than oscar. Oscar's general position on the pitch is much higher up than cesc. He looks to be doing so much defensive work cos half the counters that we are exposed to are cos of his give aways. Cesc on the other hand has been a proper DLP for us this season. (I maybe understanding you wrong here if you meant to say that oscar's responsibilities are not those of a no.10). In that case what is his role in the team? Defensive cover against burnley and leicester and qpr? Cos I don't see jose employing him tactically in any big match which tells us that jose definitely doubts his defenaive abilities.

Oscar has additional defensive responsibilities (definitely more than hazard and understandable), but he is still our no.10 and I have no doubt jose expects goals and assists from him.

I think this is pretty obvious, to me at least. His job is to be the facilitator, to plug holes in our shape, press high and effectively, score goals, provide assists, win tackles and help initiate our counter. When he does this effectively, Hazard has more freedom to do what he does best and Cesc is given more license to get forward. The reason he doesn't play in the big games is quite clear to me, we don't press high up the pitch, we usually sit deep and have a compact midfield. In these instances we have a midfield three of Cesc, Matic and Ramires with Ramires the guy who usually leaks out on the right with Willian or Hazard jumping in the middle when we counter. Ramires is a near perfect box to box midfielder if you ask me.

If Jose was looking for a traditional number 10 (through balls, creativity, playmaker, goals, assists) then why did he let Mata leave or even DeBruyne for that matter? I don't want you to pretend to be a mind reader but please tell me why those two in particular(who by all accounts seem to be close to the prototypical 10) failed to make an impact in Jose's system?

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Willian in CAM provides more defensive stability in our own half, I actually think it would makes tactically better on the counter attack. Cuadrado is a hard working right sided player but isn't in the same league as willian in actually defending.

Without the ball, willian could easily slip into a RM/RB when we are defending and defending deep, allowing cuadrado to press in the middle when the space will be wide open (as the majority of the players will be in our half in this situation) which is were he earns his money. Cuadrado hasn't played well enough this season because he isn't an CAM that can play in tight space.

Essentially, William can offer a 4-4-1-1 by dropping back and defending like he can, allowing cuadrado and costa to stay higher and attack space. Fabregas will love it.

Of course I am particularly thinking of latter stage champions league here, within the league at especially at home I can see Oscar v Willian still being a closely fought battle.

[didierforever 7,349]

I think this is pretty obvious, to me at least. His job is to be the facilitator, to plug holes in our shape, press high and effectively, score goals, provide assists, win tackles and help initiate our counter. When he does this effectively, Hazard has more freedom to do what he does best and Cesc is given more license to get forward. The reason he doesn't play in the big games is quite clear to me, we don't press high up the pitch, we usually sit deep and have a compact midfield. In these instances we have a midfield three of Cesc, Matic and Ramires with Ramires the guy who usually leaks out on the right with Willian or Hazard jumping in the middle when we counter. Ramires is a near perfect box to box midfielder if you ask me.

If Jose was looking for a traditional number 10 (through balls, creativity, playmaker, goals, assists) then why did he let Mata leave or even DeBruyne for that matter? I don't want you to pretend to be a mind reader but please tell me why those two in particular(who by all accounts seem to be close to the prototypical 10) failed to make an impact in Jose's system?

Facilitator - is he? Someone who loses the ball more often than not when under pressure.

Score goals ans assists - his return is no where near to the expectation.

Counter - I can safely say that he is our weakest link in counters. Destroys our counters.

Plug in holes- really? More often than not we play against teams with a low block with even iva playing as a winger than RB. His best performances are against teams like swansea who like to play their own brand of football and gave space to us.

Press high and win tackles - something which he is really good at and one of the main reason why he would be hard to replace.

Still, I think people sometimes forget that he is an attacker whose defensive workrate is a mssive asset. He is not a defender whose attacking prowess is an asset (that's iva). His general play can sometimes be shocking be it passing or holding the play up (which considering that his main job in the team is not to provide a creative impetus makes him redundant).

I hope he can prove me wrong by atleast improving his consistnecy and his basic play, but I also won't be suprised if he is dropped tonight for willian.

I would like to ask a question here. Do you think we would lose anything if willian Starts ahead of oscar today? Or do you think we would miss anything if we sold oscar for 30-40 mil and used that money to buy pogba while shifting cesc as a no.10 (maybe a bit in pressing) but anything else? I honestly don't.

[Dion 2,476]

Willian in CAM provides more defensive stability in our own half, I actually think it would makes tactically better on the counter attack. Cuadrado is a hard working right sided player but isn't in the same league as willian in actually defending.

Without the ball, willian could easily slip into a RM/RB when we are defending and defending deep, allowing cuadrado to press in the middle when the space will be wide open (as the majority of the players will be in our half in this situation) which is were he earns his money. Cuadrado hasn't played well enough this season because he isn't an CAM that can play in tight space.

Essentially, William can offer a 4-4-1-1 by dropping back and defending like he can, allowing cuadrado and costa to stay higher and attack space. Fabregas will love it.

Of course I am particularly thinking of latter stage champions league here, within the league at especially at home I can see Oscar v Willian still being a closely fought battle.

If we were to use Hazard, Willian and Cuadrado together, I'd rather have it like: Willian - Hazard - Cuadrado. Perhaps that could improve Willian's productivity goals-wise since he's right footed (meaning he would be playing inverted winger, which suits him more - given that he likes to cut inside) and at the same time it shouldn't affect his dribbling too much, since dribbling on the flanks is easier than in the middle. Hazard, as our best dribbler, shouldn't have too much trouble in the middle. My only concern is Cuadrado + Ivanovic, since I'm not too sure about Cuadrado's defensive ability and work rate. Also not too sure how that would affect playing Fabregas + Matic.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Facilitator - is he? Someone who loses the ball more often than not when under pressure.

Score goals ans assists - his return is no where near to the expectation.

Counter - I can safely say that he is our weakest link in counters. Destroys our counters.

Plug in holes- really? More often than not we play against teams with a low block with even iva playing as a winger than RB. His best performances are against teams like swansea who like to play their own brand of football and gave space to us.

Press high and win tackles - something which he is really good at and one of the main reason why he would be hard to replace.

Still, I think people sometimes forget that he is an attacker whose defensive workrate is a mssive asset. He is not a defender whose attacking prowess is an asset (that's iva). His general play can sometimes be shocking be it passing or holding the play up (which considering that his main job in the team is not to provide a creative impetus makes him redundant).

I hope he can prove me wrong by atleast improving his consistnecy and his basic play, but I also won't be suprised if he is dropped tonight for willian.

I would like to ask a question here. Do you think we would lose anything if willian Starts ahead of oscar today? Or do you think we would miss anything if we sold oscar for 30-40 mil and used that money to buy pogba while shifting cesc as a no.10 (maybe a bit in pressing) but anything else? I honestly don't.

Facilitator - One who aids in the team ability to play their football. I think you're exaggerating greatly if you think he gives away the ball more often than not... If that were the case do you really think a manager like Jose would have Oscar in the team so much? Lets not get carried away with hyperbole here.

Scores and Assists - Eriksen 9g 1a, Silva 7g 2a, Toure 7g 1a, Cazorla 6g 6a, Mata 5g 3a, Sterling 5g 5a... Need I say more?

Counter - Would def say he needs to improve here, probably another reason why he doesn't play in some of the big games.

Plug holes - I'm not sure you've been watching Oscar enough, he without question fills in the gaps in our shape.

So what we've been able to conclude is he is very good at pressing high and winning tackles, meanwhile he is scoring and assisting right up there with some of the best attacking mids in the Prem... Man you guys make this so easy.

I do not think Oscar is unrivalled in world football and I've already said I would like to see what Willian could do in the 10 since he works hard and also presses. He definitely has better technique and ball control... might be something to try.

Pogba is ridiculous I want him badly, not because he is better at what Oscar does but because he will provide us with something more for years to come. We're talking about one of the best midfielders in the world who has world class talent, I would assuredly have no trouble with the Jose and the board if they decided to chase Pogba and sold Oscar.

[lionsden 4,689]

It's ironic to me that those who condemn the use of statistics as a reliable and accurate means of objective anaylysis are also the ones who are quick to throw oscar's & goals and 6 assists in a debate. In otherwords, stats is only reliable and useful when it suits their argument.

Imo The main and most important stats for a playmaker/AM are key passes, chances created as it's the most relevant benchmark for creativity which is the primary task of an AM. also people always fail to recognize the importance of clinical finishers or lack thereof in a team in relation to assist as it takes two to tango so to speak .

An overwhelming majority of the best, most creative passes don't often get converted. if player A creates far more clear cut chances but is surrounded by poor finishers and i.e records comapratively low assist figure and player B creates less clear cut chances but assists more goals due to having superior and more clinical teammates and striker(s), who is the better attacking midfielder of the two?

When comparing attacking midfielders, these factors needs to be accounted for. goals and assist is far to simplistic and doesn't necessarily reflect a player's creativity and all round consistency.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

It's ironic to me that those who condemn the use of statistics as a reliable and accurate means of objective anaylysis are also the ones who are quick to throw oscar's & goals and 6 assists in a debate. In otherwords, stats is only reliable and useful when it suits their argument.

Imo The main and most important stats for a playmaker/AM are key passes, chances created as it's the most relevant benchmark for creativity which is the primary task of an AM. also people always fail to recognize the importance of clinical finishers or lack thereof in a team in relation to assist as it takes two to tango so to speak and overwhelming majority of the best, most creative passes don't often get converted. When comparing attacking midfielders, these factors needs to be accounted for. goals and assist is far to simplistic and doesn't necessarily reflect a player's creativity and all round consistency.

I have no problem with stats, I use them all the time. What you will see him draw issue with is stats from video games.

Joey Barton - 2.4 key passes

David Silva - 2.3 key passes

Eric Lamela 1.7

Oscar 1.5

Of the groups of names I've provided for you who would you rather have? Lionsden... Each and every day you make the most outlandish claims.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Oscar is dropped today! SICK LINEUP

Chelsea team v Everton: Cech; Ivanovic, Zouma, Terry ©, Azpilicueta; Ramires, Matic; Cuadrado, Willian, Hazard; Remy

[didierforever 7,349]

Facilitator - One who aids in the team ability to play their football. I think you're exaggerating greatly if you think he gives away the ball more often than not... If that were the case do you really think a manager like Jose would have Oscar in the team so much? Lets not get carried away with hyperbole here.

Scores and Assists - Eriksen 9g 1a, Silva 7g 2a, Toure 7g 1a, Cazorla 6g 6a, Mata 5g 3a, Sterling 5g 5a... Need I say more?

Counter - Would def say he needs to improve here, probably another reason why he doesn't play in some of the big games.

Plug holes - I'm not sure you've been watching Oscar enough, he without question fills in the gaps in our shape.

So what we've been able to conclude is he is very good at pressing high and winning tackles, meanwhile he is scoring and assisting right up there with some of the best attacking mids in the Prem... Man you guys make this so easy.

I do not think Oscar is unrivalled in world football and I've already said I would like to see what Willian could do in the 10 since he works hard and also presses. He definitely has better technique and ball control... might be something to try.

Pogba is ridiculous I want him badly, not because he is better at what Oscar does but because he will provide us with something more for years to come. We're talking about one of the best midfielders in the world who has world class talent, I would assuredly have no trouble with the Jose and the board if they decided to chase Pogba and sold Oscar.

stats!! really? willian has 1 goal, but right now most of us would take willian as a CAM than oscar. you should probably watch cazorla's performance against city and this season in general, to see how good he has been. the number of times eriksen has bailed spurs out and changed the match. oscar has not even been close to them in performances.

while you have highlighted most of oscar's positives, you have neglected most of his negaties (no doubt its so easy for you then to make your point). you said oscar was not in the team for creativity but for his his facilitator role, which has been poor at. for a team that relies massively on counters, he is hopelessly poor in it. and then his main problem - consistency. i honestly dont think any of cazorla, eriksen, silva are half as inconsistent (lets not even talk about the iscos and kokes of the world). his contribution to the team is so less in the attack that his supposedly good numbers seem to be lacking so much that people have wanted willian to replace him. so all in all, not as easy as you think.

[Pacquiao 1,834]

Oscar is rested today! SICK LINEUP

Chelsea team v Everton: Cech; Ivanovic, Zouma, Terry ©, Azpilicueta; Ramires, Matic; Cuadrado, Willian, Hazard; Remy

FIXED.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

stats!! really? willian has 1 goal, but right now most of us would take willian as a CAM than oscar. you should probably watch cazorla's performance against city and this season in general, to see how good he has been. the number of times eriksen has bailed spurs out and changed the match. oscar has not even been close to them in performances.

while you have highlighted most of oscar's positives, you have neglected most of his negaties (no doubt its so easy for you then to make your point). you said oscar was not in the team for creativity but for his his facilitator role, which has been poor at. for a team that relies massively on counters, he is hopelessly poor in it. and then his main problem - consistency. i honestly dont think any of cazorla, eriksen, silva are half as inconsistent (lets not even talk about the iscos and kokes of the world). his contribution to the team is so less in the attack that his supposedly good numbers seem to be lacking so much that people have wanted willian to replace him. so all in all, not as easy as you think.

i'm in match mode. i'll deal with you later!

COME ON CHELSEA!!

[Barbara 15,149]

It's ironic to me that those who condemn the use of statistics as a reliable and accurate means of objective anaylysis are also the ones who are quick to throw oscar's & goals and 6 assists in a debate. In otherwords, stats is only reliable and useful when it suits their argument.

Imo The main and most important stats for a playmaker/AM are key passes, chances created as it's the most relevant benchmark for creativity which is the primary task of an AM. also people always fail to recognize the importance of clinical finishers or lack thereof in a team in relation to assist as it takes two to tango so to speak .

An overwhelming majority of the best, most creative passes don't often get converted. if player A creates far more clear cut chances but is surrounded by poor finishers and i.e records comapratively low assist figure and player B creates less clear cut chances but assists more goals due to having superior and more clinical teammates and striker(s), who is the better attacking midfielder of the two?

When comparing attacking midfielders, these factors needs to be accounted for. goals and assist is far to simplistic and doesn't necessarily reflect a player's creativity and all round consistency.

chances created is a farce because wherever the pass preceding a shot was done and regardless of where the shot was taken it counts as a chance created.

This is a stat for stupid people, that don't watch football.

Assists and goals are one of the few precise stats. Dribbles, aerial duels, chances created/key passes don't tell the whole story at all. But if that's what you want to bring the conversation so do it.

It's hard for me to ignore a player that scores and assists... but when suits YOU (bunch of moaners, who love to criticize the team and moan), you ignore it. A lot of you who are now slamming Oscar and ignoring his direct stats even said that Hazard needed to add that to his game. So yeah, the ones who don't make sense are you. But go on and continue to believe in CC. Might as well expect the Easter Bunny in a couple of months too - after all, if we're going to talk about living in a world of fantasy, let's talk about those things as well.

Now you ignore the reality - that is goals and assists - some of them that actually won us matches (meaning he was directly involved in all goals in some matches) and come here talk about dribbles, chances created and chocolate eggs brought by a mammal.

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

Look like it is either him on the wing or Cuadrado with Willian in God form atm and excelling in the middle. I think if he doesn't step up when he gets his chance in the next few matches he could slowly become a Schurrle.

[Barbara 15,149]

Look like it is either him on the wing or Cuadrado with Willian in God form atm and excelling in the middle. I think if he doesn't step up when he gets his chance in the next few matches he could slowly become a Schurrle.

I think Cuadrado could end up out of the team along with Oscar if Mourinhos decides for Matic, Ramires; Hazard, Cesc, Willian.

I completely disagree about him becoming a Schurrle in the team. lol. I disagree about the Schurrle assumption alone, much more saying Oscar could be the same.

Schurrle was unlucky, he will be missed and I don't see the club doing the same with Oscar in the next two transfer windows.

[Rapkun 668]

He wasn't in the squad at all. He must be injured. Any news?

[Barbara 15,149]

He wasn't in the squad at all. He must be injured. Any news?

he had a light muscular injury and still played against Villa. It worsened and he was spared/rested/dropped today.

[Rapkun 668]

he had a light muscular injury and still played against Villa. It worsened and he was spared/rested/dropped today.

I was thinking he was getting rested for the PSG game but looking at our squad depth particularly in the AM department and considering the game is only in 5 days, that makes more sense. Thank you.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

So you think his tactical deployment is that of a traditional no.10? I don't. I think our playmakers or '10' is Hazard (not just because of his number) and Cesc to me those two fill the role of a traditional 10

People get caught out by the Sky Sports line-up infographic. Our midfield formation is very definitely this:

Oscar - Matic

Willian - Fabregas - Hazard

If people had that mental picture they'd understand Oscar's role better, but since this is the most circular argument on the forum I'll withdraw at this point.