Oscar

[Chelsea? 892]

He won't though. You can't be benching a player with "huge potential and future world class player". He will likely be pampered and made excuses for yet again. my bet will be on Mourinho's tracksuit distracting him from the touchline since they are close to running out of footballing related excuses.

I think morinho can bench Oscar. We'll end up playing a 433 with ramires and Matic accompanying cesc.

[robsblubot 3,595]

If Oscar plays well he will be on the starting XI, if he doesn't, he will warm the bench. If he doesn't play well all season then he will be sold. I know it's obvious, but some seem to be missing the obvious on this thread.

All this speculation is way too premature as we don't know what his physical and mental state will be when he comes back to start the season - same for all players involved in the world cup.

Personally I fucking hate seeing Oscar on the wings. I don't think he has the pace for that and his dribbling skills are suited for tight spaces, not wide areas. The fact he's been poor has very little to do with where he's been playing though. He hasn't looked sharp and been looking a bit feeble.

[lionsden 4,689]

If Oscar plays well he will be on the starting XI, if he doesn't, he will warm the bench. If he doesn't play well all season then he will be sold. I know it's obvious, but some seem to be missing the obvious on this thread.

All this speculation is way too premature as we don't know what his physical and mental state will be when he comes back to start the season - same for all players involved in the world cup.

Personally I fucking hate seeing Oscar on the wings. I don't think he has the pace for that and his dribbling skills are suited for tight spaces, not wide areas. The fact he's been poor has very little to do with where he's been playing though. He hasn't looked sharp and been looking a bit feeble.

Except it's been proven in football generally that if a manager likes you, your starting position will never be under threat regardless of form. we see it all the time in football. case in point last season with Ramires whenever fit and available for selection always played despite being consistently awful for large portion of the season.

Players getting bench for bad form only applies to those that aren't seen as untouchable by the manager

[Barbara 15,149]

If Oscar plays well he will be on the starting XI, if he doesn't, he will warm the bench. If he doesn't play well all season then he will be sold. I know it's obvious, but some seem to be missing the obvious on this thread.

Still it seems some 'fans' are almost cheering, hoping and praying for him to play badly so he moves to the bench and then gets sold. He could be sold this window transfer for all we know because Mourinho could have something else in his mind. We don't know. But still some people here are hoping and praying for him to be officially considered a flop. I don't know what kind of support is that. I don't like this idea even against opposition young players, let alone with ours. Young players reaching their potential is good for the sport. Messi and Ronaldo won't play forever the same way Zidane and Ronaldo didn't, Romário and Maradona, Zico and Garrincha, etc... so I always look forward to a youngster developing close or fully to their potential, but all that much more if said player belongs to us (when there's potential anyway, because a lot of youngsters don't have the potential people credit them)

At some points this thread is just nonsense through and through.

Also with every day that goes by he becomes worse. Not worse currently - but worse in what he already made for us. I don't know how that's possible, but the two seasons he played for us gets worse and worse by each page here. If he's still here when the thread reaches 400, his goals against Juve will probably be credited to Hazard or considered lucky flukes because as of now just the previous page (or one of the latest) someone said he has NEVER been good offensively for us. It's a study case, a player who gets worse and worse in current and past form.

And before someone misses the obvious, my previous post in this thread states exactly that he's been poor lately, both for us (last months) and for Brazil (except against Croatia and defensively). I'm not defending Oscar, he's been poor, I'm just always surprised at how people go out of their way to bash a player and seem to almost wish them bad things. Maybe it's their pride that is bigger than their supposed love or support for the team and their need to say in a few months - I told you so.

[zolayes 14,489]

we had this hate mentality with Kalou .. it was completely sickening . We NEED Oscar as he was at the start of the season

[Styles 9,790]

Still it seems some 'fans' are almost cheering, hoping and praying for him to play badly so he moves to the bench and then gets sold. He could be sold this window transfer for all we know because Mourinho could have something else in his mind. We don't know. But still some people here are hoping and praying for him to be officially considered a flop. I don't know what kind of support is that. I don't like this idea even against opposition young players, let alone with ours. Young players reaching their potential is good for the sport. Messi and Ronaldo won't play forever the same way Zidane and Ronaldo didn't, Romário and Maradona, Zico and Garrincha, etc... so I always look forward to a youngster developing close or fully to their potential, but all that much more if said player belongs to us (when there's potential anyway, because a lot of youngsters don't have the potential people credit them)

At some points this thread is just nonsense through and through.

Also with every day that goes by he becomes worse. Not worse currently - but worse in what he already made for us. I don't know how that's possible, but the two seasons he played for us gets worse and worse by each page here. If he's still here when the thread reaches 400, his goals against Juve will probably be credited to Hazard or considered lucky flukes because as of now just the previous page (or one of the latest) someone said he has NEVER been good offensively for us. It's a study case, a player who gets worse and worse in current and past form.

And before someone misses the obvious, my previous post in this thread states exactly that he's been poor lately, both for us (last months) and for Brazil (except against Croatia and defensively). I'm not defending Oscar, he's been poor, I'm just always surprised at how people go out of their way to bash a player and seem to almost wish them bad things. Maybe it's their pride that is bigger than their supposed love or support for the team and their need to say in a few months - I told you so.

Besides a few people who have completely written him off as a flop/fraud, I think most people know he's a good player who just isn't performing like one consistently enough. I certainly haven't given up on him and I believe that goes for a lot of other supporters.

[robsblubot 3,595]

I have absolutely no clue why it has stopped. Same players, same manager. Why the fuck are they not pressing as much as before?

I will take a stab at it:

Oscar is part of the problem with his poor form. His work rate and tackling are way less than they used to be. It's like like only his creatively is gone; all aspects of his game have suffered. That's why I am confident he will improve soon.

However, the main reason that Brazil is no longer able to press high is because we play with 10 men from the first minute of every match. You can't press high up with a player who can barely move: Fred. This is also very predictable as he's been battling niggling injuries for a year now, which has been the story of his career.

To me this was the main reason Mata was sold: for his inability to press high up the pitch.

[Barbara 15,149]

I will take a stab at it:

Oscar is part of the problem with his poor form. His work rate and tackling are way less than they used to be. It's like like only his creatively is gone; all aspects of his game have suffered. That's why I am confident he will improve soon.

However, the main reason that Brazil is no longer able to press high is because we play with 10 men from the first minute of every match. You can't press high up with a player who can barely move: Fred. This is also very predictable as he's been battling niggling injuries for a year now, which has been the story of his career.

To me this was the main reason Mata was sold: for his inability to press high up the pitch.

I disagree. First, Oscar had 7 tackles in the first game and then 8 in the second according some of those stats sites (I guess Squawka, it wasn't FIFA official stats). That was more than any pivot player in the WC had according to the same source.

I think the system changed. We played a 4-3-3 last year, now we play a 4-2-3-1. I don't know - can't say - if Oscar had a free role as Dion suggested - but I do know the team's focal point wasn't Neymar. Neymar was the most important player back then, but he wasn't the focal point. It was better well distributed. Now he's the focal point. everything converges to him and I think he's overloaded and overwhelmed.

Oscar is having a dip of form in the attack, but Neymar dominating the play the way he has (quantity wise, because quality had ups and downs) only makes it worse. If Oscar played centered, ahead of Gustavo and Fernandinho, as a third man in the midfield he'd be better imo. I don't hate him in the wing - as you or Pizy said, can't remember which - I think he can make a good job there because a winger isn't only about pace, especially as we've had either dominant or decent possession in the matches so far - pace is more important for counter-attack based teams, which we aren't.

At the end of the day Felipão is doing a very poor job. As Henrique said in some thread he doesn't change the system or the tactics, only the players. Willian will always sub Oscar, Bernard-Hulk, Jo-Fred. He doesn't dare to change even when it's not working. van Gaal today changed the 5-3-2 for a 4-3-3 and the match changed, Felipão can NEVER even dream of doing something like that... The team has no organization, tactical awareness and the midfield is nonexistent. Good thing Luiz and Silva can do some work with long passes, but with so many quality players in our midfield (they're not top class, but they're very good imo) we shouldn't have lost the midfield so easily... We have players good enough to win this at home, but our manager is one of the weakest in the WC... and if we lose it next round, two or three from now I'll put 90% of the blame on Felipão.

Neymar, Oscar, Hernanes, Fernandinho, Luiz, Silva - which are imo our best technical players - are all victims of a team that has really no tactic whatsoever. We don't have a team, just 11 players in the same side of the pitch.

[robsblubot 3,595]

I disagree. First, Oscar had 7 tackles in the first game and then 8 in the second according some of those stats sites (I guess Squawka, it wasn't FIFA official stats). That was more than any pivot player in the WC had according to the same source.

I think the system changed. We played a 4-3-3 last year, now we play a 4-2-3-1. I don't know - can't say - if Oscar had a free role as Dion suggested - but I do know the team's focal point wasn't Neymar. Neymar was the most important player back then, but he wasn't the focal point. It was better well distributed. Now he's the focal point. everything converges to him and I think he's overloaded and overwhelmed.

Oscar is having a dip of form in the attack, but Neymar dominating the play the way he has (quantity wise, because quality had ups and downs) only makes it worse. If Oscar played centered, ahead of Gustavo and Fernandinho, as a third man in the midfield he'd be better imo. I don't hate him in the wing - as you or Pizy said, can't remember which - I think he can make a good job there because a winger isn't only about pace, especially as we've had either dominant or decent possession in the matches so far - pace is more important for counter-attack based teams, which we aren't.

At the end of the day Felipão is doing a very poor job. As Henrique said in some thread he doesn't change the system or the tactics, only the players. Willian will always sub Oscar, Bernard-Hulk, Jo-Fred. He doesn't dare to change even when it's not working. van Gaal today changed the 5-3-2 for a 4-3-3 and the match changed, Felipão can NEVER even dream of doing something like that... The team has no organization, tactical awareness and the midfield is nonexistent. Good thing Luiz and Silva can do some work with long passes, but with so many quality players in our midfield (they're not top class, but they're very good imo) we shouldn't have lost the midfield so easily... We have players good enough to win this at home, but our manager is one of the weakest in the WC... and if we lose it next round, two or three from now I'll put 90% of the blame on Felipão.

Neymar, Oscar, Hernanes, Fernandinho, Luiz, Silva - which are imo our best technical players - are all victims of a team that has really no tactic whatsoever. We don't have a team, just 11 players in the same side of the pitch.

Not much to disagree with.

Just don't think stats give you the whole picture: Oscar movement has not been good enough for either Chelsea or Brazil.

In the beginning of last season he was a machine! He would track all the way back, make runs just because he could, etc. He's still a good player, but not the player he can be.

Yeah agree about Scolari... Stick David Luiz in midfield next game to handle Colombia's physicality, but I'd not count on Scolari doing even that.

Brazil looks as if they are playing with 10-men because they are! Can't have volume of play with 10 men on the pitch (Fred can't even run!)... at least not at this stage and against the likes of Vidal.

[Barbara 15,149]

Not much to disagree with.

Just don't think stats give you the whole picture: Oscar movement has not been good enough for both Chelsea and Brazil.

In the beginning of last season he was a machine! He would track all the way back, make runs just because he could, etc. He's still a good player, but not the player he can be.

Yeah agree about Scolari... Stick David Luiz in midfield next game to handle Colombia's physicality, but I'd not count on Scolari doing even that.

Brazil looks as if they are playing with 10-men because they are! Can't have volume of play with 10 men on the pitch... at least not at this stage and against the likes of Vidal.

10 players? That's you being generous, unless Hulk's butt count as another player (it could, I don't know how he doesn't bend backwards, and that's not a compliment), Fred doesn't ever show, he doesn't exist and Alves always plays for the opposition, that makes it 9 x 12 in my counts

[iseah100 5,612]

10 players? That's you being generous, unless Hulk's butt count as another player (it could, I don't know how he doesn't bend backwards, and that's not a compliment), Fred doesn't ever show, he doesn't exist and Alves always plays for the opposition, that makes it 9 x 12 in my counts

10 x 12 with the ref then:P

[Barbara 15,149]

10 x 12 with the ref then:P

well, there was that, but I think Webb showed the world yesterday that Brazil spent all the money actually making the WC happen and don't have money for bribes now. A bribed referee would have given at least a penalty and Hulk would have scored. Damn it, we don't have even the referees at this point anymore. Unless they do it for free. They might

[iseah100 5,612]

well, there was that, but I think Webb showed the world yesterday that Brazil spent all the money actually making the WC happen and don't have money for bribes now. A bribed referee would have given at least a penalty and Hulk would have scored. Damn it, we don't have even the referees at this point anymore. Unless they do it for free. They might

Webb is awesome. He's the most intimidating ref ever lol. That was a ballsy call disallowing that Hulk goal. Lesser refs wouldn't have called that.

Lol just for the sake of preventing riots!

[Dion 2,476]

I will take a stab at it:

Oscar is part of the problem with his poor form. His work rate and tackling are way less than they used to be. It's like like only his creatively is gone; all aspects of his game have suffered. That's why I am confident he will improve soon.

However, the main reason that Brazil is no longer able to press high is because we play with 10 men from the first minute of every match. You can't press high up with a player who can barely move: Fred. This is also very predictable as he's been battling niggling injuries for a year now, which has been the story of his career.

To me this was the main reason Mata was sold: for his inability to press high up the pitch.

I don't think the lack of pressing is Oscar's fault. If anything this is one of the few things he still does efficiently. At times it seems he's the only one doing it. Felipão should reinforce the importance of pressuring high on the pitch. Also the striker who has the most energy and who can press better should play, none of them can score anyways, so we might as well put someone who can force passing mistakes from defenders, be it Jo, Fred, Hulk or any other, I don't care who it is. But I'm afraid we shouldn't discuss Brazil NT problems on Oscar's thread.

[zolayes 14,489]

well, there was that, but I think Webb showed the world yesterday that Brazil spent all the money actually making the WC happen and don't have money for bribes now. A bribed referee would have given at least a penalty and Hulk would have scored. Damn it, we don't have even the referees at this point anymore. Unless they do it for free. They might

Even a bribed ref wouldnt give you a penalty when YOU handball in their area .... Clattenberg might tho

[haranr 485]

or trust in Mourinho...?

Mourinho doesn't really trust him.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Mourinho doesn't really trust him.

indeed. he criticised him too after the end of the season, but there's no indication we're looking to sell. so you have to conclude if he's here for 2014-15 season then Mourinho believes he can unlock Oscar's potential.

[Barbara 15,149]

indeed. he criticised him too after the end of the season, but there's no indication we're looking to sell. so you have to conclude if he's here for 2014-15 season then Mourinho believes he can unlock Oscar's potential.

Mourinho criticized Hazard too and I'm positive he isn't for sale.

Actually I think Mourinho's criticism towards Hazard has harsher than towards Oscar. But that's part of his job and most players have areas for improvement, so criticism is part of the package.

I think Mourinho is disappointed with Oscar's mentality though.

[haranr 485]

indeed. he criticised him too after the end of the season, but there's no indication we're looking to sell. so you have to conclude if he's here for 2014-15 season then Mourinho believes he can unlock Oscar's potential.

I know we are not looking to sell but for me this is a mistake. I think his price-tag will decline from now on.

[haranr 485]

Mourinho criticized Hazard too and I'm positive he isn't for sale.

Actually I think Mourinho's criticism towards Hazard has harsher than towards Oscar. But that's part of his job and most players have areas for improvement, so criticism is part of the package.

I think Mourinho is disappointed with Oscar's mentality though.

lol. You clearly don't understand the situation. Mourinho doesn't expect near as much from Oscar than he does towards Hazard......