Eden Hazard

[DDA 9,690]

1 hour ago, manpe said:

Again using two basic metrics to measure a player's worth. Tell you what, Sterling and Salah are putting up bigger numbers than Hazard this season, therefore they must be better players. Would you take either instead of Hazard in our team? If yes, then fair enough, that's your rightful opinion. If no, then explain why.

But Sterling and Salah aren't being mentioned when talking about the top 3 best footballers in the World. Quite a few people who support Chelsea mostly believe Eden Hazard is the 3rd best player in the World only to fall short of Ronaldo and Messi's acheievments. I am simply stating a fact that he does not score or assist any where near enough to be applauded above certain other players. His contribution to Chelsea has been outstanding but he isn't better than Neymar for instance. This isn't to say I don't think he could be that guy because his talent is clear to see but he really needs to step up his drive to become the best. Sadly, I don't think it is something he is too bothered about though. 

[communicate 2,703]

3 hours ago, Unionjack said:

You can't say that with the amount of shots we are having. We just aren't accurate enough.

Eden as we know has a big ego which most players/sportsmen with talent have and he needs it stroked all the time. Hes amazing when he comes out with that cheeky grin cause you know hes up for it But a player withhis talent needs to be able to turn on at will.He wanted to play more central and now he is. Its time for him to show what hes made of.

I think If you watch 5 games of city or pool and then watch 5 of our games you can tell the difference. 

[communicate 2,703]

12 minutes ago, DDA said:

But Sterling and Salah aren't being mentioned when talking about the top 3 best footballers in the World. Quite a few people who support Chelsea mostly believe Eden Hazard is the 3rd best player in the World only to fall short of Ronaldo and Messi's acheievments. I am simply stating a fact that he does not score or assist any where near enough to be applauded above certain other players. His contribution to Chelsea has been outstanding but he isn't better than Neymar for instance. This isn't to say I don't think he could be that guy because his talent is clear to see but he really needs to step up his drive to become the best. Sadly, I don't think it is something he is too bothered about though. 

Let me say this about Hazard, the problem with Hazard IMO has nothing to do with goalscoring output, it is just sometimes he tend to go missing, that is more of the problem. If you want Hazard to compete with Messi and Ronaldo in term of output then either fire Conte or sell Hazard to a more attacking team. 

I am pretty sure if he play for city/pool, he will have scored at least 20 goals by now. Just watch the chances that salah or sterling missed. I watched city v spurs where sterling scored twice, he should have scored 5, he missed like 2/3 sitters. 

 

[Unionjack 7,531]

29 minutes ago, communicate said:

If you want Hazard to compete with Messi and Ronaldo in term of output then either fire Conte or sell Hazard to a more attacking team. 

Eden has said himself hes never going to be a big goal scorer. His averge with us is 13 in all cups etc. But I do think he could give more assists which I see him trying to do now. I like him when hes got no set position and can roam about wherever. What I would like a top 3 to do.

[Blue Armour 4,278]

All I can say is he is the difference maker. The performance of the team when he's on and when he's absent is like comparing night and day.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

The way a team plays has an effect on the output of attacking players.

The more pragmatic (defensive) the lower the output. 

The more free flowing (attacking) the higher the output. 

We've been a very pragmatic side over the years. 

Then there's also the matter of the quality of your teammates. If you have a lot of creative teammates, goalscorers and/or a lot of dribblers in your team then you're going to find it easier to score and assist.

We don't have a lot of creativity, goalscorers or dribblers in our team. 

Comparing the output of players like Sterling or Neymar to Hazard is just silly. Both of them play or have played in teams who have been ultra attacking and who were or are packed with creativity, goalscorers and dribblers. Hazard hasn't.

 

[Tomo 21,733]

10 hours ago, DDA said:

80 goals in 274 games isn't really that good for a player of Edens quality mate. I love him as much as the next fan but this bias towards him is blinding people from the fact that he just doesn't score enough goals or assist to be on the top 3 players in the World, which is what many people claim.

Hazard doesn't need to score to have god like games, many many times he's been 10/10 without doing so. If a winger/AM's status in the game is decided on goals scored then it's simply wrong on every level. He didn't score in either game vs Atleti or vs United but was sensational in all 3, if he performs like that for half the season does it even matter if he only scores 10 or even 5? Not for me.

Hazard as he is is 100000000x more preferable to a Hazard who starts taking low percentage shots just to pad out his goal tally.

[LAM09 6,744]

Hazard doesn't need to score to have god like games, many many times he's been 10/10 without doing so. If a winger/AM's status in the game is decided on goals scored then it's simply wrong on every level. He didn't score in either game vs Atleti or vs United but was sensational in all 3, if he performs like that for half the season does it even matter if he only scores 10 or even 5? Not for me.
Hazard as he is is 100000000x more preferable to a Hazard who starts taking low percentage shots just to pad out his goal tally.

He could always add to his game

[DDA 9,690]

2 hours ago, Tomo said:

Hazard doesn't need to score to have god like games, many many times he's been 10/10 without doing so. If a winger/AM's status in the game is decided on goals scored then it's simply wrong on every level. He didn't score in either game vs Atleti or vs United but was sensational in all 3, if he performs like that for half the season does it even matter if he only scores 10 or even 5? Not for me.

Hazard as he is is 100000000x more preferable to a Hazard who starts taking low percentage shots just to pad out his goal tally.

I get what you are saying. He is sensational for us at times and goals and assists do not always speak for a players contribution but he needs to score more and assist more on top of what he is already doing to be considered top 3 in the World. 

[communicate 2,703]

3 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

The way a team plays has an effect on the output of attacking players.

The more pragmatic (defensive) the lower the output. 

The more free flowing (attacking) the higher the output. 

We've been a very pragmatic side over the years. 

Then there's also the matter of the quality of your teammates. If you have a lot of creative teammates, goalscorers and/or a lot of dribblers in your team then you're going to find it easier to score and assist.

We don't have a lot of creativity, goalscorers or dribblers in our team. 

Comparing the output of players like Sterling or Neymar to Hazard is just silly. Both of them play or have played in teams who have been ultra attacking and who were or are packed with creativity, goalscorers and dribblers. Hazard hasn't.

 

This, offensively we are very conservative. We attack with only 5 players and left 5 player behind the ball even against weaker team. 

[communicate 2,703]

1 hour ago, DDA said:

I get what you are saying. He is sensational for us at times and goals and assists do not always speak for a players contribution but he needs to score more and assist more on top of what he is already doing to be considered top 3 in the World. 

If you want him to be considered top 3 then we should splash on player this summer.

It is as simple as that. Get better players, improve our team win trophies and he will win balondor and considered top players in the world.

But looking at last summer it is not happening, our net spent was almost nothing.

So realistically speaking if you want him to be considered as top 3 then sell him to other team.

 

 

[manpe 10,861]

15 hours ago, DDA said:

But Sterling and Salah aren't being mentioned when talking about the top 3 best footballers in the World. Quite a few people who support Chelsea mostly believe Eden Hazard is the 3rd best player in the World only to fall short of Ronaldo and Messi's acheievments. I am simply stating a fact that he does not score or assist any where near enough to be applauded above certain other players. His contribution to Chelsea has been outstanding but he isn't better than Neymar for instance. This isn't to say I don't think he could be that guy because his talent is clear to see but he really needs to step up his drive to become the best. Sadly, I don't think it is something he is too bothered about though. 

Why aren't Sterling or Salah being discussed as one of top 3 (or top anything tbh) when they score/assist more? Why is Hazard being discussed as one for years if he doesn't score/assist enough? Not only Chelsea fans do that, but also ex-players, pundits and journalists who have nothing to do with Chelsea. Bearing in mind how difficult it is to get ANY recognition being Chelsea, why does he attract so much praise and attention from outside?

You also didn't answer my question - would you take Salah or Sterling over Hazard in our team? Elaborate your answer. 

If you take away half of Messi's goals and assists, would he be half as useful player?

Please also explain how Neymar is better than Hazard.

[Tomo 21,733]

3 hours ago, DDA said:

I get what you are saying. He is sensational for us at times and goals and assists do not always speak for a players contribution but he needs to score more and assist more on top of what he is already doing to be considered top 3 in the World. 

I disagree, i can't think of many other players who could have carried us the way Eden has. Apart from Messi, who can change direction at full speed and still have the ball firmly planted at their feet like Eden can? Who ( again apart from Messi) can change speed while running with the ball like Eden can? All these players who supposedly are much better (Neymar, Suarez, Bale, even Ronaldo) waste possession so much more than Hazard does. Literally everything has been set up for him to fail with us,

He gets clattered numerous times every single game.

Doubled and sometimes tripled up on, 1 on 1? Forget it, not even the likes of Azpi and Alderwierld could live with him 1 vs 1.

Playing with limited team mates, the only players during his time here clever enough to link up with him are Mata, Cesc, Eto'o and Morata and the first three were/are limited by either lack of athleticsm or ageing.

Playing under coaches like Benitez and Mourinho who are hardly reknowned for developing attacking talent, Conte isn't as bad as those two, but equally he isn't Pep or Klopp in the attacking football stakes either.

He has been successful swimming against a tide for his whole time here and those other players have been playing in a lot more favourable conditions that pander to their talents, Hazard has hit the heights he has playing in a team with a lot of limitations. Also in the 15/16 season he was undeniably in the worst form of his career AND had a hip injury (for perspective Eric Lamela has just returned from a year absence due to a hip injury) yet still averaged 2.4 chances created a game, that is ridiculous, and he doesn't even take set pieces, i can't think of many other players who would touch such a positive stat while injured, off form and the club in the worst moment for over 2 decades, Messi probably would, anyone else? Forget it.

If he could add more goals then ofcourse, nobody will be complaining but if he does i want it to be natural evolution, not forced (ala him taking 10 low percentage shots just to score 1) and it shouldn't be used as a deal breaker for him to be a top 3 player, he comfortably is for me and not only that, the best player we have ever had.

[DDA 9,690]

4 hours ago, manpe said:

Why aren't Sterling or Salah being discussed as one of top 3 (or top anything tbh) when they score/assist more? Why is Hazard being discussed as one for years if he doesn't score/assist enough? Not only Chelsea fans do that, but also ex-players, pundits and journalists who have nothing to do with Chelsea. Bearing in mind how difficult it is to get ANY recognition being Chelsea, why does he attract so much praise and attention from outside?

You also didn't answer my question - would you take Salah or Sterling over Hazard in our team? Elaborate your answer. 

If you take away half of Messi's goals and assists, would he be half as useful player?

Please also explain how Neymar is better than Hazard.

Listen, again Salah and Sterling have nothing to do with this debate! Why would I even consider mentioning those two names in the same breath as Eden? Because they have scored more goals this season? That is like me saying anyone who has scored more goals than Eden this season is better than him! No, just no. We all know Eden is one of the best players if not the best player in his position in England. I am with everyone here when we wax lyrical about how Eden has carried us single handendly at times. I get extremely frustrated that he has to play alongside a crop of limited professionals. Neymar is without a doubt considered a more effective footballer than Eden at this current point in time. Yes, he has played in extremely attacking teams that cater specifically to his abillities. Yes, if Eden was to play in that Barca team or the current PSG team he would undoubtably be scoring far more goals and assisting far more too but he isn't.. There is a reason why PSG have paid soo much money for him and he is talked about leaving Barca to acheieve the Balon Dor. I know you can't meassure a players ability simply on goals and assists but comon, you seriously believe if Eden started scoring a bag load of goals and assists whilst winning the biggest trophies, he wouldn't start being considered for the highest of awards such as the Balon Dor? 

[DDA 9,690]

3 hours ago, Tomo said:

I disagree, i can't think of many other players who could have carried us the way Eden has. Apart from Messi, who can change direction at full speed and still have the ball firmly planted at their feet like Eden can? Who ( again apart from Messi) can change speed while running with the ball like Eden can? All these players who supposedly are much better (Neymar, Suarez, Bale, even Ronaldo) waste possession so much more than Hazard does. Literally everything has been set up for him to fail with us,

He gets clattered numerous times every single game.

Doubled and sometimes tripled up on, 1 on 1? Forget it, not even the likes of Azpi and Alderwierld could live with him 1 vs 1.

Playing with limited team mates, the only players during his time here clever enough to link up with him are Mata, Cesc, Eto'o and Morata and the first three were/are limited by either lack of athleticsm or ageing.

Playing under coaches like Benitez and Mourinho who are hardly reknowned for developing attacking talent, Conte isn't as bad as those two, but equally he isn't Pep or Klopp in the attacking football stakes either.

He has been successful swimming against a tide for his whole time here and those other players have been playing in a lot more favourable conditions that pander to their talents, Hazard has hit the heights he has playing in a team with a lot of limitations. Also in the 15/16 season he was undeniably in the worst form of his career AND had a hip injury (for perspective Eric Lamela has just returned from a year absence due to a hip injury) yet still averaged 2.4 chances created a game, that is ridiculous, and he doesn't even take set pieces, i can't think of many other players who would touch such a positive stat while injured, off form and the club in the worst moment for over 2 decades, Messi probably would, anyone else? Forget it.

If he could add more goals then ofcourse, nobody will be complaining but if he does i want it to be natural evolution, not forced (ala him taking 10 low percentage shots just to score 1) and it shouldn't be used as a deal breaker for him to be a top 3 player, he comfortably is for me and not only that, the best player we have ever had.

I still think it is close between Zola and Hazard for who is the best player to have ever played here.

[manpe 10,861]

10 minutes ago, DDA said:

Listen, again Salah and Sterling have nothing to do with this debate! Why would I even consider mentioning those two names in the same breath as Eden? Because they have scored more goals this season? That is like me saying anyone who has scored more goals than Eden this season is better than him! No, just no. We all know Eden is one of the best players if not the best player in his position in England. I am with everyone here when we wax lyrical about how Eden has carried us single handendly at times. I get extremely frustrated that he has to play alongside a crop of limited professionals. Neymar is without a doubt considered a more effective footballer than Eden at this current point in time. Yes, he has played in extremely attacking teams that cater specifically to his abillities. Yes, if Eden was to play in that Barca team or the current PSG team he would undoubtably be scoring far more goals and assisting far more too but he isn't.. There is a reason why PSG have paid soo much money for him and he is talked about leaving Barca to acheieve the Balon Dor. I know you can't meassure a players ability simply on goals and assists but comon, you seriously believe if Eden started scoring a bag load of goals and assists whilst winning the biggest trophies, he wouldn't start being considered for the highest of awards such as the Balon Dor? 

Ah, I think I finally see your point. You are saying that the global audience would rate him more if he was more prolific, hence the 3rd best player thing being sung only by those who watch English football. Neymar is ahead in popularity contest (Eden isn't even trying to compete tbf) and it's being unjustly translated into him being the better player, but no way anybody can convince me he is better than Hazard, for me he's an overrated possession wasting donkey. I wouldn't take anybody over Hazard in his position, not even Messi or Ronaldo. Love that guy.

[DDA 9,690]

5 minutes ago, manpe said:

Ah, I think I finally see your point. You are saying that the global audience would rate him more if he was more prolific, hence the 3rd best player thing being sung only by those who watch English football. Neymar is ahead in popularity contest (Eden isn't even trying to compete tbf) and it's being unjustly translated into him being the better player, but no way anybody can convince me he is better than Hazard, for me he's an overrated possession wasting donkey. I wouldn't take anybody over Hazard in his position, not even Messi or Ronaldo. Love that guy.

That is exactly what I am saying! I haven't articulated my point well enough lol. I have to say though, I do rate Neymar. You can't deny the lads ability and he does perform on the big stage. Would i rather him than Eden at our club? Hell no. He wouldn't last 2 minutes playing in the Prem. I love Edens character also. Neymar is a little girl.

[manpe 10,861]

Just now, DDA said:

That is exactly what I am saying! I haven't articulated my point well enough lol. I have to say though, I do rate Neymar. You can't deny the lads ability and he does perform on the big stage. Would i rather him than Eden at our club? Hell no. He wouldn't last 2 minutes playing on the Prem. I love Edens character also. Neymar is a little girl.

Neymar is obviously a good player, I don't deny that. But he's overrated so much and I don't like his face.  Hazard is a warrior, he is strong and doesn't mind people kicking the shit out of him. Neymar would eat grass for 80 mins per game than actually do anything, diving champ that he is.