Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 17/07/2014 at 22:54, CFC_4EVER said:

I didn't said that it is represent the all Palestinians, but we are trying to bring the quiet over our city's as soon as possible believe me if Hamas wasn't shooting the situation was better for both sides.

You kinda missed my main point behind that post: If you want to end extremism, why not start with that on your side of the fence first?

  On 18/07/2014 at 00:37, jasonlol said:

im not accusing you of supporting hamas(im well aware of your correct opposition to such a group). and yes you do know more about egypt than I do, and we will just have to disagree on last point. Like the way I see it is if you say its idf fault as well; thats saying that if someone fires on you and you try to neutralize threat your at fault cause they fired from civilian area? For me all blood on hands of aggressor in such a scenario. Tragic nonetheless, but to add to this, from what I read the idf does do robo calls; drop leaflets and sometimes use a dummy bomb first (a dud that makes noise to warn people) to reduce this.

The vast majority of the targets have been civilian houses. Not their premises, not the are next to them, the houses directly. Do you think Hamas are firing rockets from the kitchen or the living room?

Btw, the 'dummy bomb' is a rocket fired from an MK pilot-less plane. It's no F16 airstrike, but it cause quite a lot of damage. This warning 'dud' rocket is much more powerful than an actual Hamas rocket. Seriously, just think about that for a second.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

IDF confirmed to be using an 'unfamiliar' white poisonous gas since the start of the ground attack.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/news/140912/israel-using-poisonous-gas-in-gaza-incursions

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/12881-medical-sources-israel-using-unfamiliar-toxic-gas-against-palestinians-in-gaza

[yuvala 2,167]

  On 18/07/2014 at 10:27, CHOULO19 said:

The vast majority of the targets have been civilian houses. Not their premises, not the are next to them, the houses directly. Do you think Hamas are firing rockets from the kitchen or the living room?

Hamas hides rockets in civillian's houses, in kindergardens.. that is why.

We are not stupid enough to just randomly kill civillians, you talk as if we're just enjoying killing people..

  On 18/07/2014 at 13:51, CHOULO19 said:

IDF confirmed to be using an 'unfamiliar' white poisonous gas since the start of the ground attack.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/news/140912/israel-using-poisonous-gas-in-gaza-incursions

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/12881-medical-sources-israel-using-unfamiliar-toxic-gas-against-palestinians-in-gaza

How reliable is that, honestly ?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 18/07/2014 at 14:09, yuvala said:

Hamas hides rockets in civillian's houses, in kindergardens.. that is why.

We are not stupid enough to just randomly kill civillians, you talk as if we're just enjoying killing people..

How stupid do you think people are to let Hamas hide rockets in their houses. Seriously, think about it for a second. And don't you think Hamas has better places to hide their rockets like under ground tunnels and storages? Why would they put their precious rockets in such vulnerable places?

And yes, it does seem that you just enjoy killing people. I refer you back to the couches and popcorn in Sderot...

  On 18/07/2014 at 14:09, yuvala said:

How reliable is that, honestly ?

It's all over the news, I just chose two random articles. More sources:

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/07/18/israeli-ground-invasion-kills-28-more-palestinians-forces-fire-unknown-white-poisonous-gas/

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-approves-ground-offensive-gaza-1556492146

Just Google it yourself.

[xPetrCechx 13,565]

  On 18/07/2014 at 14:23, CHOULO19 said:

How stupid do you think people are to let Hamas hide rockets in their houses. Seriously, think about it for a second. And don't you think Hamas has better places to hide their rockets like under ground tunnels and storages? Why would they put their precious rockets in such vulnerable places?

And yes, it does seem that you just enjoy killing people. I refer you back to the couches and popcorn in Sderot...

It's all over the news, I just chose two random articles. More sources:

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/07/18/israeli-ground-invasion-kills-28-more-palestinians-forces-fire-unknown-white-poisonous-gas/

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-approves-ground-offensive-gaza-1556492146

Just Google it yourself.

You think that they have any choice?

Most of the gaza people now regret that they chose Hamas.

Hamas Fire the missiles from places near schools, houses and mosques... because of that, they hiding them there.

About the Second part:

I'm not telling that it's ok to cheer up and celebrate death of people, but you didn't mention all the arabs that live in israel and celebrate every rocket that fell here, or any soldier that was killed...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 18/07/2014 at 14:46, xPetrCechx said:

You think that they have any choice?

Most of the gaza people now regret that they chose Hamas.

Hamas Fire the missiles from places near schools, houses and mosques... because of that, they hiding them there.

About the Second part:

I'm not telling that it's ok to cheer up and celebrate death of people, but you didn't mention all the arabs that live in israel and celebrate every rocket that fell here, or any soldier that was killed...

Of course they have a choice! You think Hamas would have any fighters with them if they forced people to keep rockets in their houses? I can get keeping the rockets in schools and mosques because they are public places and Hamas may have power over them, but in private civilians houses? It makes absolutely no sense. Again why would Hamas leave their rockets so exposed when they can hide them in underground tunnels and storages?

I'm not justifying it, it's terrible to 'cheer' for death, but the rockets are falling are meant for psychological damage, and you know it. And you can't really mourn the death of an enemy soldier. For the Arabs, they are cheering for the resistance against the occupier of their country. What are the Israeli cheering for in the death of civilians? And let's be realistic, there is a difference between cheering for news (not that it's okay) and eating popcorn while watching whole neighborhoods with people living in them being bombed to the ground by some of the most devastating weaponry in the world. That's just inhuman.

[Fulham Broadway 17,092]

No Palestinian rockets have killed any Israelis thanks to the iron dome paid for by US tax payers, but lets ignore that for a moment.

Palestinians like Israelis are composed of Christians, Muslims, atheists agnostics, socialists, nationalists, anarchists, etc ..and some Palestinians endorse and some despise Hamas

Israelis are a mixed bunch as well ranging from feminists, price tag settlers, right wing, left wing and groups like these ;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchists_Against_the_Wall and some agree with the govt and some not.

The reality is like in most of these conflicts, the average Palestinian has more in common with the average Israeli than they do with Hamas if they bothered to talk to each other, and if the wall was torn down. And the average Israeli has more in common with the average Palestinian than they do with their murderous leadership.

Hamas does not provoke Israel to attack Gaza. Palestinians do. The very name of Palestine, the very fact and phenomenon of being a Palestinian, being a witness to the moral bankruptcy of the very idea of Zionism provokes Israel. The mere existence of Palestinians is the denial of Israel and its dominant Zionist ideology. That is the reason that Golda Meir famously said there are no Palestinians, for if there were any Palestinians, she would be a joke. So she had to say there are no Palestinians in order to be an Israeli prime minister.

The israeli colonial powers do not want to stop the rockets, they want the last bit of land for their rich friends, and will not rest , as one Isreali put it, ''until every Palestinian is washed out to sea.''

[cosmicway 1,333]

The Arab-Israeli conflict dominates this thread, perhaps not unhustifiably so.
I have already stated my opinion that the only option is peace.

Peace sounds utopian but war is also utopian because no one wins.

At the same time there some more critical issues around.

Europe is threatened with economic junta.

Unemployment, big brother follows you every step.

Do you know that your bank accounts are being monitored by law ?

For hundreds of years people were worried that their political beliefs were monitored. That's gobbledugook now. Who cares if I voted for the centrists and not the social reformists ? If they actually do, I don't mind taking a trip to secret police headquarters and tell them all about it.
But your personal belongings are being monitored. If my aunt Dorothy from Ohio-USA mails me 50 bucks for Christmas sweets, it is being monitored. Chances are they will say "oh it's his aunt Dorothy again with a little gift - let it go", but if they want they confiscate it for VAT issue !
That's the democracy we have.
It's the sort of thing Stalin did to Baltic countries in 1938 when he annexed them. Took all the money from the grannies and left them with one rouble.

Some people react to this by becoming nationalist. That's yet another madness because the nationalists are the number one totalitarians.

[xPetrCechx 13,565]

  On 18/07/2014 at 15:03, Fulham Broadway said:

No Palestinian rockets have killed any Israelis thanks to the iron dome paid for by US tax payers, but lets ignore that for a moment.

Palestinians like Israelis are composed of Christians, Muslims, atheists agnostics, socialists, nationalists, anarchists, etc ..and some Palestinians endorse and some despise Hamas

Israelis are a mixed bunch as well ranging from feminists, price tag settlers, right wing, left wing and groups like these ;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchists_Against_the_Wall and some agree with the govt and some not.

The reality is like in most of these conflicts, the average Palestinian has more in common with the average Israeli than they do with Hamas if they bothered to talk to each other, and if the wall was torn down. And the average Israeli has more in common with the average Palestinian than they do with their murderous leadership.

Hamas does not provoke Israel to attack Gaza. Palestinians do. The very name of Palestine, the very fact and phenomenon of being a Palestinian, being a witness to the moral bankruptcy of the very idea of Zionism provokes Israel. The mere existence of Palestinians is the denial of Israel and its dominant Zionist ideology. That is the reason that Golda Meir famously said there are no Palestinians, for if there were any Palestinians, she would be a joke. So she had to say there are no Palestinians in order to be an Israeli prime minister.

The israeli colonial powers do not want to stop the rockets, they want the last bit of land for their rich friends, and will not rest , as one Isreali put it, ''until every Palestinian is washed out to sea.''

1.first, they killed 2/3 israelis. second, So the Iron dome is a bad thing? iron dome is here to defence people, not to attack. US helps israel to finance the iron dome.

2. what a BS. hamas does not provoke israel? israel want the gaza land and not to stop the rockets? cammon. it's just a BS.

we don't need gaza land. came to agreement, stop the missiles,back to ceasefire that's it.

[xPetrCechx 13,565]

  On 18/07/2014 at 15:03, Fulham Broadway said:

No Palestinian rockets have killed any Israelis thanks to the iron dome paid for by US tax payers, but lets ignore that for a moment.

Palestinians like Israelis are composed of Christians, Muslims, atheists agnostics, socialists, nationalists, anarchists, etc ..and some Palestinians endorse and some despise Hamas

Israelis are a mixed bunch as well ranging from feminists, price tag settlers, right wing, left wing and groups like these ;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchists_Against_the_Wall and some agree with the govt and some not.

The reality is like in most of these conflicts, the average Palestinian has more in common with the average Israeli than they do with Hamas if they bothered to talk to each other, and if the wall was torn down. And the average Israeli has more in common with the average Palestinian than they do with their murderous leadership.

Hamas does not provoke Israel to attack Gaza. Palestinians do. The very name of Palestine, the very fact and phenomenon of being a Palestinian, being a witness to the moral bankruptcy of the very idea of Zionism provokes Israel. The mere existence of Palestinians is the denial of Israel and its dominant Zionist ideology. That is the reason that Golda Meir famously said there are no Palestinians, for if there were any Palestinians, she would be a joke. So she had to say there are no Palestinians in order to be an Israeli prime minister.

The israeli colonial powers do not want to stop the rockets, they want the last bit of land for their rich friends, and will not rest , as one Isreali put it, ''until every Palestinian is washed out to sea.''

Right... they didn't kidnap 3 teenagers and killed them... they didn't fire rockets for more than 10 years...

[Fulham Broadway 17,092]

  On 18/07/2014 at 15:31, xPetrCechx said:

Right... they didn't kidnap 3 teenagers and killed them... they didn't fire rockets for more than 10 years...

Mate those few deaths are regrettable, as are the thousand s of Palestinians, but try and put it in a bit of context, and see what your govt is really doing.

[xPetrCechx 13,565]

  On 18/07/2014 at 15:49, Fulham Broadway said:

Mate those few deaths are regrettable, as are the thousand s of Palestinians, but try and put it in a bit of context, and see what your govt is really doing.

If it was so easy to negotiate with them, and to accept the 2 countries solution..... it wasn't take so long...

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

  On 18/07/2014 at 15:54, xPetrCechx said:

If it was so easy to negotiate with them, and to accept the 2 countries solution..... it wasn't take so long...

Ok this is the part I don't understand Petr. Why negotiate with them and ignore the government of Abbas. Don't you think that if Israel gets into a serious realistic negotiations with Abbas you would have achieved some sort of solution? I am sure that if that was the case, Palestinians in Gaza would realize how much better it is for themselves. But the point is, Israel ignores Abbas and deals with Palestinians as if they are all Hamas. There is a clear distinction and mental approach between both.

[Behemoth 266]

Disgusting shit from the Israeli gov.

That's all I'm gonna say.

[xPetrCechx 13,565]

  On 18/07/2014 at 16:00, Mohammed Seif said:

Ok this is the part I don't understand Petr. Why negotiate with them and ignore the government of Abbas. Don't you think that if Israel gets into a serious realistic negotiations with Abbas you would have achieved some sort of solution? I am sure that if that was the case, Palestinians in Gaza would realize how much better it is for themselves. But the point is, Israel ignores Abbas and deals with Palestinians as if they are all Hamas. There is a clear distinction and mental approach between both.

It's not that clear... we are trying to negotiate... doesn't work so far...

  On 18/07/2014 at 16:01, Behemoth said:

Disgusting shit from the Israeli gov.

That's all I'm gonna say.

yeah, very easy to say that from the far USA.....

Try to come and live in Sderot or any other south city...

[yuvala 2,167]

  On 18/07/2014 at 14:23, CHOULO19 said:

How stupid do you think people are to let Hamas hide rockets in their houses. Seriously, think about it for a second. And don't you think Hamas has better places to hide their rockets like under ground tunnels and storages? Why would they put their precious rockets in such vulnerable places?

And yes, it does seem that you just enjoy killing people. I refer you back to the couches and popcorn in Sderot...

It's all over the news, I just chose two random articles. More sources:

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/07/18/israeli-ground-invasion-kills-28-more-palestinians-forces-fire-unknown-white-poisonous-gas/

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-approves-ground-offensive-gaza-1556492146

Just Google it yourself.

  On 18/07/2014 at 14:59, CHOULO19 said:

Of course they have a choice! You think Hamas would have any fighters with them if they forced people to keep rockets in their houses? I can get keeping the rockets in schools and mosques because they are public places and Hamas may have power over them, but in private civilians houses? It makes absolutely no sense. Again why would Hamas leave their rockets so exposed when they can hide them in underground tunnels and storages?

I'm not justifying it, it's terrible to 'cheer' for death, but the rockets are falling are meant for psychological damage, and you know it. And you can't really mourn the death of an enemy soldier. For the Arabs, they are cheering for the resistance against the occupier of their country. What are the Israeli cheering for in the death of civilians? And let's be realistic, there is a difference between cheering for news (not that it's okay) and eating popcorn while watching whole neighborhoods with people living in them being bombed to the ground by some of the most devastating weaponry in the world. That's just inhuman.

This is EXACTLY why they're hiding rockets in places such as civillian houses or hospitals.. this alone proves (for me atleast) that we're not targeting random killing of civillians (and you saying that is just bias, sorry to say).

They're hiding the rockets there because they know that we try to stay away from killing innocent people and they also know that if we will bomb that storage it will make it look like we're killing for fun (by the way you talk, it works).

Also, you really over exxagerate Israelis being 'happy' whenever someone in Gaza dies. Yes, there are many ignorant people who just say "kill all the arabs", they are racist, stupid poor people. But most people I know are only 'happy' when we kill Hamas fighters and not civillians.

  On 18/07/2014 at 15:03, Fulham Broadway said:

No Palestinian rockets have killed any Israelis thanks to the iron dome paid for by US tax payers, but lets ignore that for a moment.

Palestinians like Israelis are composed of Christians, Muslims, atheists agnostics, socialists, nationalists, anarchists, etc ..and some Palestinians endorse and some despise Hamas

Israelis are a mixed bunch as well ranging from feminists, price tag settlers, right wing, left wing and groups like these ;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchists_Against_the_Wall and some agree with the govt and some not.

The reality is like in most of these conflicts, the average Palestinian has more in common with the average Israeli than they do with Hamas if they bothered to talk to each other, and if the wall was torn down. And the average Israeli has more in common with the average Palestinian than they do with their murderous leadership.

Hamas does not provoke Israel to attack Gaza. Palestinians do. The very name of Palestine, the very fact and phenomenon of being a Palestinian, being a witness to the moral bankruptcy of the very idea of Zionism provokes Israel. The mere existence of Palestinians is the denial of Israel and its dominant Zionist ideology. That is the reason that Golda Meir famously said there are no Palestinians, for if there were any Palestinians, she would be a joke. So she had to say there are no Palestinians in order to be an Israeli prime minister.

The israeli colonial powers do not want to stop the rockets, they want the last bit of land for their rich friends, and will not rest , as one Isreali put it, ''until every Palestinian is washed out to sea.''

I wouldn't really say that, we wouldn't invade Gaza if there wasn't terrorism there. BUT, I will not deny that some people (and the government) do not really seek peace and that is part of the reason for why there's not really much going on regarding peace.

* btw, it's important for me to say that I'm really trying to be objective and I dont share the same political views as 'XpetrCechx' and 'CFC4EVER'.

What I think the ideal solution should be is Israel together with the UN and other countries should help grow Gaza's economy and make the life of the Palestinians better which will IMO drop the amout of extremists and that would help Israel aswell as the Palestinians.

I dont really have a solution for the current situation though, its really too complicated.

[yuvala 2,167]

  On 18/07/2014 at 16:00, Mohammed Seif said:

Ok this is the part I don't understand Petr. Why negotiate with them and ignore the government of Abbas. Don't you think that if Israel gets into a serious realistic negotiations with Abbas you would have achieved some sort of solution? I am sure that if that was the case, Palestinians in Gaza would realize how much better it is for themselves. But the point is, Israel ignores Abbas and deals with Palestinians as if they are all Hamas. There is a clear distinction and mental approach between both.

Hi Mohammed, how's it going ?

Could you elaborate on who are Abbas ? I really dont know much about it.

[Stingray 9,441]

This person got suspended for her talk. Comon Israel. You are going the wrong way. The banality of evil!!