twobanger 13 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Really shocked by the coverage some of the British and American news channels have been giving. It's pretty clear that Palestinian lives have little or no value in comparison to Israeli lives for most of these media outlets. Losing my faith in humanity every time someone tries to justifies the massacre Israel is causing.It's a cultural difference. Here, if you start a fight, (we're not talking about historical root causes) you reap the consequences, whatever they may be. Don't start a fight you can't win. Don't shoot junk rockets homemade rockets at a first world military power and then [redacted] that they're hitting you back with first world military equipment and it's not fair. People seem to not understand that they are responsible for the actions of their leaders. If your leaders are leading you to ruination then the fight starts with them. I think a lot of the posters here are young, and only have experiance of the modern attempt at limiting warfare with "smart weapons" against military targets and infrastructure while attempting to spare civilians and think this is the norm, and the way it has always been. The US has a huge older population that grew up in the wake of the Second World War when Total War was the way war was fought, and everyone under the flag of the enemy was the enemy when bombs were used. (Dresden, the Blitz on London, and Hiroshima and Nagasaki come to mind.) Seeing the comments here about how Israel is only making Hamas stronger makes me wonder if Israel will decide to take the Total War approach someday to end it once and for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 It's a cultural difference. Here, if you start a fight, (we're not talking about historical root causes) you reap the consequences, whatever they may be. Don't start a fight you can't win. Don't shoot junk rockets homemade rockets at a first world military power and then [redacted] that they're hitting you back with first world military equipment and it's not fair. People seem to not understand that they are responsible for the actions of their leaders. If your leaders are leading you to ruination then the fight starts with them.I think a lot of the posters here are young, and only have experiance of the modern attempt at limiting warfare with "smart weapons" against military targets and infrastructure while attempting to spare civilians and think this is the norm, and the way it has always been. The US has a huge older population that grew up in the wake of the Second World War when Total War was the way war was fought, and everyone under the flag of the enemy was the enemy when bombs were used. (Dresden, the Blitz on London, and Hiroshima and Nagasaki come to mind.) Seeing the comments here about how Israel is only making Hamas stronger makes me wonder if Israel will decide to take the Total War approach someday to end it once and for all.So what would have the Palestinians do if not shoot rockets? Just sit their in their open-air prison suffering everyday with a racist "first world army" as you put it siege around them controlling their water, electricity and everything that comes into the sector with absolutely no way of ever leading a remotely decent life while that army slowly and methodically continues destroying their houses and imprisoning them for no reason until they no longer exists?! Do you have any idea what hardships and racist harassment a Palestinian goes through on daily basis? If you, or any other man on earth, were a Gazaz, you'd fire rockets at Israel. Fulham Broadway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only place to be 11,313 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 If you, or any other man on earth, were a Gazaz, you'd fire rockets at Israel.Probably live with the mantra 'never again' eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrExcalibur100 7,124 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 And where is Hamas in all of this? Hamas is the main conspirator pulling the strings behind the scenes. I've already posted their charter which says their goal is to obliterate Israel from existence. This is why they continually shoot rockets into Israel to kill civilians and in hope of a retaliation from the IDF. This is how this new conflict as well as the others began. Hamas is a very radical and evil organisation and they are the problem and not the solution. The fact that they were "democratically" elected is proven by history to be irrelevant. Even Hitler and the Nazi's were democratically elected and the rest is history. Fatah at least recognizes Isreal's right to exist. I think at least this is a much better alternative to Hamas whose ideology is fueled by Jew hatred. They will never be at peace with the Jews because they don't want to. The Palestinian's are just collateral damage the same way the German citizens were under the Nazi regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara 15,149 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 don't know if it's true or not, saw it at some friends' but there's this site with all sort of videos about what's going on there currently and in one of them a Palestine said that the Israeli went through a village or something at one evening and said they would attack there the following day and said people should leave so they weren't killed in the process. Then civilians were getting their stuff packed to leave and the Hamas soldiers came and told them if they left they'd kill them because they need to touch the world with their deaths when Israel attacked them.I don't know what shocked me more - Israeli soldiers thinking that asking people to leave their houses make it okay for them to destroy them - or the Hamas ordering and threatening people to stay and probably die, just so their potential deaths shock and touch the world.I ask if that's true because the audio of course wasn't in English and who knows who's translated that. In the site seemingly had videos pro-Israel and pro-Palestine (or against both, you decide). Either way there's a reason why I don't try to get too much informed about what really goes on in some places nowadays. The reality is too shocking for me and I don't know even 0.01% of what really goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only place to be 11,313 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 ″Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it″.Apparently that's in the Hamas Charter....and people wonder why Israel might be shooting rockets into Gaza. CFC_4EVER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohammed Seif 1,451 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 ″Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it″.Apparently that's in the Hamas Charter....and people wonder why Israel might be shooting rockets into Gaza. you need to read a lot about the conflict and the history mate. Try Shlomo Sand, Naom Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Avi Shlaim, Miko Peled ( son of respectful Israeli General Mittityahu Peled. You will know more about the conflict. Fulham Broadway and TacticalBlues 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrExcalibur100 7,124 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/iraqi-christians-mosul-isis-convert-islam-or-be-executed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only place to be 11,313 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 you need to read a lot about the conflict and the history mate. Try Shlomo Sand, Naom Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Avi Shlaim, Miko Peled ( son of respectful Israeli General Mittityahu Peled. You will know more about the conflict.So that's not part of the Hamas Charter then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrExcalibur100 7,124 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 ″Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it″.Apparently that's in the Hamas Charter....and people wonder why Israel might be shooting rockets into Gaza.We don't agree on a lot but this is something that we can agree on. Hamas is so evil and depraved of any sort of humanity that they'll use their children as bombs and human shields to provoke a retaliation and demonize Israel. Thank goodness even the Liberals in England are starting to wake up to this pattern of lies.This is how Hamas rule in Gaza. With an iron fist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 don't know if it's true or not, saw it at some friends' but there's this site with all sort of videos about what's going on there currently and in one of them a Palestine said that the Israeli went through a village or something at one evening and said they would attack there the following day and said people should leave so they weren't killed in the process. Then civilians were getting their stuff packed to leave and the Hamas soldiers came and told them if they left they'd kill them because they need to touch the world with their deaths when Israel attacked them.I don't know what shocked me more - Israeli soldiers thinking that asking people to leave their houses make it okay for them to destroy them - or the Ramas ordering and threatening people to stay and probably die, just so their potential deaths shock and touch the world.I ask if that's true because the audio of course wasn't in English and who knows who's translated that. In the site seemingly had videos pro-Israel and pro-Palestine (or against both, you decide). Either way there's a reason why I don't try to get too much informed about what really goes on in some places nowadays. The reality is too shocking for me and I don't know even 0.01% of what really goes on.Doesn't make sense to be honest because Hamas is not the type to try to get sympathy. In fact they're against all the victimizing of the Palestinian people because they're all for the propaganda that they are all powerful and fear no one. It's kind of a "my God is stronger than yours" religious extremist thing. But if you can provide the audio, I'd be happy to translate it.Generally speaking, Palestinians are VERY reluctant to leave their houses anywhere after millions were thrown out of theirs in 1948 to be replaced by Israelis and even since then Israel have methodically destroyed Palestinian houses to replace them with more settlements. To Palestinians, if they leave their house, they probably never return to it again.http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/iraqi-christians-mosul-isis-convert-islam-or-be-executedThe evil that the US and it's allies in the area created. But you have to say, this is very similar to the Muslims and Christians having to evacuate most of Palestine in 1948 or get executed, right? Mohammed Seif 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohammed Seif 1,451 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 So that's not part of the Hamas Charter then?Yes it is. If you bothered yourself and read the previous pages, you would have known for a fact that everyone here ( I am not excluding anyone) doesn't like Hamas and think they are terrorists. But if you bother yourself a bit more and read, you will also know that this isn't a religious matter like you are trying to imply mate. Seriously you need to get some knowledge about this. Fulham Broadway, Amblève. and TacticalBlues 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrExcalibur100 7,124 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yes it is. If you bothered yourself and read the previous pages, you would have known for a fact that everyone here ( I am not excluding anyone) doesn't like Hamas and think they are terrorists. But if you bother yourself a bit more and read, you will also know that this isn't a religious matter like you are trying to imply mate. Seriously you need to get some knowledge about this.So why did the Palestinians "democratically" vote for a terrorist organisation? Is it that they quietly agree with the ideology of ISIS or that they were unknowingly coerced to doing so or what exactly?Also, what are your views on the Muslim Brotherhood, the organisation that created (or is an offshoot of) Hamas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohammed Seif 1,451 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 So why did the Palestinians "democratically" vote for a terrorist organisation? Is it that they quietly agree with the ideology of ISIS or that they were unknowingly coerced to doing so or what exactly?Also, what are your views on the Muslim Brotherhood, the organisation that created (or is an offshoot of) Hamas?James give it up. You have been trying so hard to take a swing at religion. You should know what you are talking about before you type anything. Go read some history and you will know what this is all about. You will also know who expelled the Jews out if from their land. Maybe you would be more humble. Also read about how this whole conflict started, then maybe, you can have a case to argue. Fulham Broadway and TacticalBlues 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobanger 13 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 No I wouldn't. I've already stated the difference is cultural. I would be hunting Hamas leadership for putting my family in a situation to be slaughtered for little gain other than photo-ops to show how mean Israel is. Pragmatism is better than pride in this instance. Look at Japan and Germany. They were vanquished people with occupiers living amongst them. Where are they now, where would you think they would be if their response had been to form an insurgency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only place to be 11,313 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yes it is. If you bothered yourself and read the previous pages, you would have known for a fact that everyone here ( I am not excluding anyone) doesn't like Hamas and think they are terrorists. But if you bother yourself a bit more and read, you will also know that this isn't a religious matter like you are trying to imply mate. Seriously you need to get some knowledge about this.You have to be joking if you think that's the case, especially when people question 'the west's' view of this conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohammed Seif 1,451 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 You have to be joking if you think that's the case, especially when people question 'the west's' view of this conflict.What is the case then mate? Share your knowledge with us please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 No I wouldn't. I've already stated the difference is cultural. I would be hunting Hamas leadership for putting my family in a situation to be slaughtered for little gain other than photo-ops to show how mean Israel is.Pragmatism is better than pride in this instance. Look at Japan and Germany. They were vanquished people with occupiers living amongst them. Where are they now, where would you think they would be if their response had been to form an insurgency?You're not really getting what I'm saying. Hamas are bad, but they are very new to the struggle. Irrelevant of Hamas's existence or anything they fire at Israel, the Palestinians aren't allowed to exists since the inception of Israel and they are headed to being wiped off the map. They were slaughtered long before Hamas and they will continue to be slaughtered even if Hamas disappears into thin air. You can't possibly compare them to Germany and Japan. No one wanted to erase Japan and Germany off the map. Mohammed Seif, TacticalBlues and Fulham Broadway 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only place to be 11,313 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 What is the case then mate? Share your knowledge with us please.You can stop calling me mate any time you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post! Mohammed Seif 1,451 Posted July 24, 2014 Popular Post! Share Posted July 24, 2014 You can stop calling me mate any time you want. You can put a solid argument any time you can mate Peace., Rmpr, Amblève. and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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