Politics & Stuff

[cosmicway 1,333]

The Greek Tsipr-exit lasted for 5 hours.
Last year (5 July) Tsipras held his referendum and won it.
I went to sleep early, woke up at 5 in the morning, opened google news - Varoufakis resigned it said.

The English evzons may last a bit longer.

Other than that it was exactly the same. Spray guns the size of US Air Force - RAF together. Stacks of hay all over the place.
In Gr it was Putin is coming with trillions of euros.
In the UK it was ... the open seas. It looks like it is literally the open seas.

 

[Parky 739]

Seriously wondering what Boris Johnson's end game is? 

[Fulham Broadway 17,299]

2 hours ago, Parky said:

Seriously wondering what Boris Johnson's end game is? 

He thought he'd lose, but that it would be enough to get him in (when Cameron stepped away).

He realises the shit show we're in now and doesn't want to be involved, quite understandably! Best leave it to others to take the blame as this unwinds.

 

[cosmicway 1,333]

Europe's traditional enemy is international communism.
They were the world's strongest military block until the downfall, now they maintain a presence of around 5%, on the average (in the form of orthodox communism).
So international communism can be described as a small power block.
The other enemy is the neonazis who are also active, from 1/1/1946 in fact to this day. Neonazis were a minute quantity, about 1%. In UK and France they were about 15% having the form of "Powellite" movements (plus the 1% of "originalistas").
Their ranks have been swelled because:

a - the threat of communism in the shape of USSR is gone, so the right wingers don't have to worry about what happens to NATO
b - 1/2 of the big capital want closed markets - monopolies rather than open markets

The neonazis are far more dangerous than the anti-communist dictatorships of old, the Greek and the Iberic.
Anything else you hear is "excuses in sin" more or less.

One of the biggest lies of the anti-europe campaign is the so called "Brussels dictatorship".
But it is the governments who make the decisions ! We don't even have a "Brussels government", good, bad, dictatorial or otherwise and the so called euro-supremos are persons who act on behalf of the governments.
The anti-european could say "I 'd like an EU but only if my country dictates all the others", or complain that "my country is too weak and cannot influence decisions". The last is obviously true for Malta-Greece-Portugal but not for the UK.
So the campaign is sort of an obvious lie in that respect.

 

[lucio 5,418]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36681475

Austria presidential poll result overturned

 

knew this was rigged , was so blatantly obvious, hopefully Hofer gets his victory now

[KevinAshburner 1,270]

@milan.cech

this story is for you. your views on this and would you want to do a England/United Kingdom/Great Britain. 

 

Czech Republic is gearing up to Brexit out of The EU.

 

Is ‘Czexit’ Next? President of Czech Republic Calls for EU Referendum
 

http://time.com/4391005/czexit-milos-zeman-referendum-nato-eu-czech/

President Milos Zeman says his citizens must be able to "express themselves" on E.U. and NATO membership

The Czech Republic’s President Milos Zeman has called for a referendum on the country’s membership of both the European Union and NATO, the latest example of fallout from Britain’s vote to leave the E.U.

[cosmicway 1,333]

34 minutes ago, KevinAshburner said:

@milan.cech

this story is for you. your views on this and would you want to do a England/United Kingdom/Great Britain. 

 

Czech Republic is gearing up to Brexit out of The EU.

 

Is ‘Czexit’ Next? President of Czech Republic Calls for EU Referendum
 

http://time.com/4391005/czexit-milos-zeman-referendum-nato-eu-czech/

President Milos Zeman says his citizens must be able to "express themselves" on E.U. and NATO membership

The Czech Republic’s President Milos Zeman has called for a referendum on the country’s membership of both the European Union and NATO, the latest example of fallout from Britain’s vote to leave the E.U.

That one is a heavy drinker.
It looks to me that in the old "central powers" the right wingers look forward to a dictatorial-racist Europe rather than a non-Europe.
I have already explained the ways in which the anti-european mind works.
There is also the Austrian action replay.
Those who will never quit are imho the French, not counting mme Lepen's party.
In Greece and Spain it is mainly the leftists who make noises, but they have n't come down strongly in favour of the "Brexit". Not yet at any rate.
You can kiss democracy goodbye too and freedom of speech if they have their way.

[geezers 9]

On 6/30/2016 at 2:20 PM, CurlyHairLikeLuiz said:

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this. In my opinion reducing immigration is not racism. The economic argument for immigration is sound, but mass immigration causes the social fabric of society to rip apart; lots of ghettoisation has occured over the years in places like Dagenham and it breeds hatred, and nationalist tendencies. Immigration is good, but too much (and equally too little) is not. Farage is not a racist, in any definition except the warped Left wing one which used to be used to keep white people quiet. To be honest his party is being used as a beacon for the wrong kinds of people and while it has served its purpose (UKIP did force the referendum, after all!) he would be taken far more seriously if he went to the Conservatives. No, I don't have complete authority over what is or isn't racist, but neither do you and having experienced racism first hand I use that as my definition. Perhaps I'm wrong, it is entirely possible I've just been desensitised to lower forms of racism. The poster was a lapse of judgment, but he doesn't make his own propaganda and I think the bloke that came up with it probably got a good talking to.

Yes, they did the same during your referendum campaign. The difference being that England has been subjected to this negative attitude for so long that I think the electorate simply chose to ignore it. Although it did make me laugh when Remain campaigners who wanted to crucify the City during the recession were now many of the people trying to urge people to listen to it.

Well, I'm glad Boris is not running. Gove represented exactly what I wanted from Leave, I would definitely trust him to do what's right (in my opinion). I'm not for the Norway option, if we go for that we might as well have stayed in. I'm not expecting to have my cake and eat it, to trade with the EU will likely involve a tariff but we can certainly negotiate something better than 10% which is the normal going rate. Yes, it could be viewed like that but countries like France, the converse may occur - Eurosceptic feeling is high there and therefore giving the UK an unfavourable deal would be like a shot to the foot, as in the event that they leave, they will probably get the same deal. Plus Germany calls the shots in the EU; and if it imposes a bad deal on the UK it would cause loss of jobs there. Combined with deals with other countries around the world like India, we may well come out stronger than when we were in. I'm pretty sure there was another figure for Iceland which I heard in a TV debate, but I can't remember now. My point is that where one closes a door, another opens; a lot of countries will see this as a good opportunity to get a favourable deal with the 5th largest economy in the world.

Not quite. By the point we were to start stripping rules away from the Bill, for all intents and purposes we would be outside of the EU. It'd be a far quicker exit process than 2 years.

I expect there will have to be a decision made whether Northern Ireland (for the people) whether they favour further integration with the Union and for all intents and purposes just become 'Northern Ireland County Council' or if they would prefer to join with Ireland and remain in the EU. Both would have their benefits, but I can't comment further because quite frankly I don't have enough knowledge on the NI perspective or the issues facing it. Regarding Gibraltar and NI, I think we'll just have to see what happens, but the UK can certainly make it as painless as possible for both countries (Irish passport holders for example would still be eligible for free movement as before the EEC) and it won't be the disaster as advertised.

By "New Currency" I assume you mean a Scottish pound in the literal sense. I think one reason why Scotland voted to remain is because one of the key Leave points (mass immigration) does not apply (at the same extent as England) to Scotland. It is a mainly England focussed point. I think that, however, there would have to be a more vibrant economic manifesto in order for an independence vote to succeed: Basing an economy on a finite commodity (and also how much actually goes to Scotland; Many of the ways of dividing it up favoured England & Wales) was never going to be a vote winner because it can be exploited by the opposition so easily.

I just can't see the EU removing the Euro from any entry deal, otherwise existing Eurozone countries would see leaving and rejoining as a way to get rid of it, unless Brexit significantly changes their view towards federalisation - entirely possible, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Reducing immigration is not necessarily racism, yes, however it's the motives behind this that are often racist. I've heard many arguments about "foreigners coming over here and taking our benefits", despite the fact immigration generally makes a positive contribution to the economy. There's also many people that complain about walking down the street and not seeing a white face, or complaining about there being Polish food shops. What the hell does it matter?? And again, yes, there are sometimes social consequences when there is mass immigration concentrated in one particular are, although there are other ways this can be tackled instead of just reducing immigration into the country entirely. However even these negatives to immigration should not be seen as an excuse for extremism or racism. Farage is at very least a racist sympathiser given his defense of racist party members. He knows many of his supporters are racist and uses this to his advantage to send out his ideology by breeding hate. And whether or not Farage made the poster, he was still happy to present it.

The City is generally full of wankers who caused one of the worst recessions in recent times (no thanks to the politicians who were supposed to be regulating them) so I can completely understand why many will want to give them the two fingers, but a referendum is not the place for a protest vote as the consequences last many lifetimes. The thing here though is that if The City is affected badly by this vote, it's not the stockbrokers and bankers who pay the consequences. When you have Tory government who only care about keeping the rich rich whilst shouting "long term economic plan", it will be the working class, the jobless and the disabled who pay the most for it, many of whom will have voted Leave.

Anyone is better than Boris but Gove's cabinet record is abysmal and May's isn't much better - despite this she's probably still the best person for the job which says it all really. Even a small tariff will have big implications given the volume of imports and exports the UK trades. While countries like France have pro-EU leaders I can't see them being lenient in negotiations, they'll want to try stem the tide of Euroscepticism. There will be open doors but none as valuable as the EU in my opinion.

I still highly doubt the EU will be willing to negotiate with us if we don't invoke Article 50, given they've said just as much.

I can't see there ever being a "Northern Ireland council". There seemed to be a desire among most to maintain the status quo purely just to avoid any more trouble but since the referendum there's already been renewed calls for a united Ireland which will likely be even stronger if there is no common travel area. Either way it could lead to renewed trouble.

Essentially a Scottish Pound yes. Scotland is actually lacking in immigration (something the Yes campaign should have made more of an issue about before the referendum), as it needs more people of a working age to balance out an ageing population, which is why it's probably more important for Scotland to stay in the EU. The economy should not be based on oil and I don't thin that was Salmond's plan either. Scotland would be 99.9% certain to get its geographical share of the North Sea, i.e. the bit that has all the oil in it, believe me I have done my research in this particular area! Any suggestion that Scotland would only get its population share of the sea that surrounds it is absolutely ludicrous (should we only get our population share of the highlands too...?). The SNP's calculations were based on the correct (geographical) share of oil, the thing they got wrong was overestimating the price of email. You're correct though that it still isn't a vote winner and any new campaign must make more of Scotland's other resources and exports.

A lot depends on whether the EU is willing to be lenient with Scotland to try play down the whole Brexit situation. Spain and France's leaders have said no but unfortunately for them its up to the EU commission, not them.

 

[cosmicway 1,333]

7 hours ago, geezers said:

Reducing immigration is not necessarily racism, yes, however it's the motives behind this that are often racist. I've heard many arguments about "foreigners coming over here and taking our benefits", despite the fact immigration generally makes a positive contribution to the economy. There's also many people that complain about walking down the street and not seeing a white face, or complaining about there being Polish food shops. What the hell does it matter?? And again, yes, there are sometimes social consequences when there is mass immigration concentrated in one particular are, although there are other ways this can be tackled instead of just reducing immigration into the country entirely. However even these negatives to immigration should not be seen as an excuse for extremism or racism. Farage is at very least a racist sympathiser given his defense of racist party members. He knows many of his supporters are racist and uses this to his advantage to send out his ideology by breeding hate. And whether or not Farage made the poster, he was still happy to present it.

The City is generally full of wankers who caused one of the worst recessions in recent times (no thanks to the politicians who were supposed to be regulating them) so I can completely understand why many will want to give them the two fingers, but a referendum is not the place for a protest vote as the consequences last many lifetimes. The thing here though is that if The City is affected badly by this vote, it's not the stockbrokers and bankers who pay the consequences. When you have Tory government who only care about keeping the rich rich whilst shouting "long term economic plan", it will be the working class, the jobless and the disabled who pay the most for it, many of whom will have voted Leave.

Anyone is better than Boris but Gove's cabinet record is abysmal and May's isn't much better - despite this she's probably still the best person for the job which says it all really. Even a small tariff will have big implications given the volume of imports and exports the UK trades. While countries like France have pro-EU leaders I can't see them being lenient in negotiations, they'll want to try stem the tide of Euroscepticism. There will be open doors but none as valuable as the EU in my opinion.

I still highly doubt the EU will be willing to negotiate with us if we don't invoke Article 50, given they've said just as much.

I can't see there ever being a "Northern Ireland council". There seemed to be a desire among most to maintain the status quo purely just to avoid any more trouble but since the referendum there's already been renewed calls for a united Ireland which will likely be even stronger if there is no common travel area. Either way it could lead to renewed trouble.

Essentially a Scottish Pound yes. Scotland is actually lacking in immigration (something the Yes campaign should have made more of an issue about before the referendum), as it needs more people of a working age to balance out an ageing population, which is why it's probably more important for Scotland to stay in the EU. The economy should not be based on oil and I don't thin that was Salmond's plan either. Scotland would be 99.9% certain to get its geographical share of the North Sea, i.e. the bit that has all the oil in it, believe me I have done my research in this particular area! Any suggestion that Scotland would only get its population share of the sea that surrounds it is absolutely ludicrous (should we only get our population share of the highlands too...?). The SNP's calculations were based on the correct (geographical) share of oil, the thing they got wrong was overestimating the price of email. You're correct though that it still isn't a vote winner and any new campaign must make more of Scotland's other resources and exports.

A lot depends on whether the EU is willing to be lenient with Scotland to try play down the whole Brexit situation. Spain and France's leaders have said no but unfortunately for them its up to the EU commission, not them.

 

Racism is a habit of the old empires.
It is prevalent among the fanatical islamists too, who were also imperialist before WWI - the Ottoman empire.
They hate everyone.
EU is 65 years old now and in the beginning people had no idea this kind of thing survived. We thought it was dead and buried in the bunker of Berlin.
But gradually we got to know.
The reason there are european immigrants is that once upon a time the European countries were friendly with one another. Another reason is there were repressive regimes that make people leave their countries (communist and others).
But the atmosphere was one of freedom all over western Europe, with possible aberrations in the Iberic peninsula and Greece,

We knew that the right wing parties were overdoing it with anti-communism. They could accuse one of being communist sympathiser and there was no internet those days to publicise and expose the liars (if you were a common citizen as opposed to a public figure who could respond through the press). But this kind of thing -race hate- was unknown before the mid seventies.

I had discussions with officers of the military second bureau in 1981. I spoke to them about the rise of the Lepen pary in France. They said to me "not this communist claptrap, not in a million years, it's utter rubbish, it's crazy". I told them it's not utter rubbish and those folks represent a danger for Europe and they are a danger to our security, because first and foremost the communist propaganda was going to make a hot meal out of it.
It did n't happen straight away but in the end it happened, the way I said it would.

So it's a nightmarish prospect.
The Brexit campaign was 101% an anti-immigrant campaign, targeting Europeans this time !


 

[Milan 17,955]

On 2. 7. 2016 at 4:39 AM, KevinAshburner said:

@milan.cech

this story is for you. your views on this and would you want to do a England/United Kingdom/Great Britain. 

 

Czech Republic is gearing up to Brexit out of The EU.

 

Is ‘Czexit’ Next? President of Czech Republic Calls for EU Referendum
 

http://time.com/4391005/czexit-milos-zeman-referendum-nato-eu-czech/

President Milos Zeman says his citizens must be able to "express themselves" on E.U. and NATO membership

The Czech Republic’s President Milos Zeman has called for a referendum on the country’s membership of both the European Union and NATO, the latest example of fallout from Britain’s vote to leave the E.U.

It will not happen. I don't mean the exit, but the referendum. The president may say he would love to give people the chance to vote and speak for themselves, but the politics and leaders are incredibly scared of that prospect. Especially the prime minister, who is by the way the leader of a democratic party.

[cosmicway 1,333]

It's 4th of July folks

 

[Spike 12,049]

11 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

It's 4th of July folks

 

 

Except in the country that actually celebrates that day/ 

[cosmicway 1,333]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

 

Except in the country that actually celebrates that day/ 

Why ?
They have sausages, fireworks, folk dances today.
Don't they ?

[Spike 12,049]

11 hours ago, cosmicway said:

Why ?
They have sausages, fireworks, folk dances today.
Don't they ?

It was 4th of July in America when you posted.

[cosmicway 1,333]

11 hours ago, Spike said:

It was 4th of July in America when you posted.

Must have been early afternoon 4th of July in America - early morning here.