Politics & Stuff

[twobanger 13]

You do realize that black people have endured centuries of oppression, especially in the Americas, solely based on their race? So it's not about agitating and manufacturing outrage, it's pent up rage from all of the injustices they have endured. And you're a fucking fool if you can't see that.

Bullshit. Sharpton and Jesse make a living out of keeping race relations in the gutter, on exploiting hurting families, in fanning the flames instead of putting them out. If they spent half the energy they do on that on pushing education and work, maybe they could help instead of make things worse.

It's the racist bigotry of low expectations that would let you think they can't help but act on pent up rage, that they can't control themselves. The truth is that none of those looting and burning give a flip about Mike Brown. It's an excuse to steal and commit mayhem.

[Paul1970 250]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR465HoCWFQ

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Chomsky on Obama and Martin Luther King:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3YeIqpDVwI

Bullshit. Sharpton and Jesse make a living out of keeping race relations in the gutter, on exploiting hurting families, in fanning the flames instead of putting them out. If they spent half the energy they do on that on pushing education and work, maybe they could help instead of make things worse.

It's the racist bigotry of low expectations that would let you think they can't help but act on pent up rage, that they can't control themselves. The truth is that none of those looting and burning give a flip about Mike Brown. It's an excuse to steal and commit mayhem.

That may be true, but racism in the US is still a huge issue that is often entangled with class issues and you still have a LONG way to go towards equality. That is simply undeniable. Forget Mike Brown, look at how the police have treated the citizens of Ferguson since the incident. The majority white police of the mainly black town are using military equipment (which according to the army itself they have absolutely no need of) to cover up the obvious murder of a black teen by a white cop. If that is not racism then I don't know what is.

Of course there are a lot who are taking advantage of this to loot and commit crime, but that does not in any way change any of the facts above no matter how much the police and media try.

And calming things down is not necessarily making them better. That only ensures that the situation continues as it was before all this happened. No one has ever won their civil rights by calming things down. You need rage and often even violence if you want to change the situation which no doubt needs changing.

[cosmicway 1,263]

The Americans are not bigoted people, much more enlightened than most Europeans.

My aunts were Greek American.

But of course there are some hotheads that are really mean.
In the case of Brown the fuzz was attacked but he had no business to carry a firearm with his person. A taser or a truncheon could have been used. When you shoot somebody under any circumstances there are bound to be implications.

[Stingray 9,441]

The Americans are not bigoted people, much more enlightened than most Europeans.

My aunts were Greek American.

But of course there are some hotheads that are really mean.

In the case of Brown the fuzz was attacked but he had no business to carry a firearm with his person. A taser or a truncheon could have been used. When you shoot somebody under any circumstances there are bound to be implications.

The anti evolution, climate denying, media and corporate fueled, science and history illiterate populace in the US (which I can attest to has a larger public than in Europe - after teaching both uni in the US as here in Belgium) disagrees :-)

That post did make me laugh though. Nice cliché anyway.

[cosmicway 1,263]

The anti evolution, climate denying, media and corporate fueled, science and history illiterate populace in the US (which I can attest to has a larger public than in Europe - after teaching both uni in the US as here in Belgium) disagrees :-)

That post did make me laugh though. Nice cliché anyway.

No because although I have come across certain wild characters the Americans are in general more friendly people, more clever and more accomodating. The litmus test is if you like people who are of different political alliance, because if we are of the same stable -say both dems- there is nothing to say. The middle American then although he may have the opposite views from you, he nevertheless respects you.

[Stingray 9,441]

No because although I have come across certain wild characters the Americans are in general more friendly people, more clever and more accomodating. The litmus test is if you like people who are of different political alliance, because if we are of the same stable -say both dems- there is nothing to say. The middle American then although he may have the opposite views from you, he nevertheless respects you.

Ill just post on the 'clever' and 'friendly' part. There is no evidence from personality psychology to suggest a difference in openmindedness, altruïsme, agreeableness (big five research) and all we connect to friendliness or warmth. Cross cultural research (Hofstede) strongly suggests that individuality as a cultural marker is higher in the US than most of Europe (they score higher on collectiveness) . Eg: results from cross cultural studies (i just took Belgium as the comparing country)

Its even more outspoken in other European countries: eg. Sweden. This already proves that the variation within Europe is too great to make such generalising claims:

Also, the variation between europeans and americans in personality structure is less than 5%. Most of the difference lies in the neuroticism (emitional instability) domain, which fluctuates across countries and regions.

Also clever, also no indication of this in IQ research. If there is anything there it is that Asians score higher.

So your personal testimonial is just what it is, personal and anecdotal.

[cosmicway 1,263]

I take back the clever.
I mean more informed about the goings on around the world and hence look more clever (that despite the stereotype created by someone who said the capital of Paris is France).
But I just think the overseas cousins are cool guys.

[Stingray 9,441]

I take back the clever.

I mean more informed about the goings on around the world and hence look more clever (that despite the stereotype created by someone who said the capital of Paris is France).

But I just think the overseas cousins are cool guys.

Political scientists tend to disagree with you on that as well.

Just for fun:

http://www.alternet.org/story/90161/ignorant_america%3A_just_how_stupid_are_we

Quote: "In 2003, the Strategic Task Force on Education Abroad investigated Americans' knowledge of world affairs. The task force concluded: "America's ignorance of the outside world" is so great as to constitute a threat to national security."

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Basically Egypt right now:

To paraphrase Noam Chomsky, as an imperialistic state, when your favorite tyrant/dictator is trying to suppress a revolution there are three steps that you take, and those have always been true throughout history:

1- Support the tyrant fully until the army or the businessmen turn against him.

2- Give glowing speeches and empty rhetoric about how you support freedom, democracy and the right of the people to decide their fates.

3- Try your best to replace the fallen regime with one that is almost identical to it.

These have been applied to perfection in Egypt.

[twobanger 13]

Chomsky on Obama and Martin Luther King:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3YeIqpDVwI

That may be true, but racism in the US is still a huge issue that is often entangled with class issues and you still have a LONG way to go towards equality. That is simply undeniable. Forget Mike Brown, look at how the police have treated the citizens of Ferguson since the incident. The majority white police of the mainly black town are using military equipment (which according to the army itself they have absolutely no need of) to cover up the obvious murder of a black teen by a white cop. If that is not racism then I don't know what is.

Of course there are a lot who are taking advantage of this to loot and commit crime, but that does not in any way change any of the facts above no matter how much the police and media try.

And calming things down is not necessarily making them better. That only ensures that the situation continues as it was before all this happened. No one has ever won their civil rights by calming things down. You need rage and often even violence if you want to change the situation which no doubt needs changing.

Crap. I had a long detailed post and when I opened a a new tab on my phone to verify I had remembered things correctly and came back to post it was gone.

So the short truncated version is, there's no video of the shooting but you say it's definitely a racial killing. It's not. It's an American Police thing. James Boyd and Kelley Thomas were killed by police on video for no reason and the police were ruled justified. It doesn't matter the race they'll kill you as soon as you give them an excuse.

The other races just don't riot about it.

Blacks make up 13% of the population. If they decide to race war like you're advocating them to do there'll only be one possible outcome. Historical injustices are that, history. Why is it that a Pakistani or Iraqi or a Nigerian, or Somali, or Ethiopian or Indian can come here and be successful if we were such a racist country? The "keeping it real" "thug culture" that permeates such a large percentage of the urban communities is what's holding them back. In them when a black child tries to do well he's bullied and told he's "acting white". There's more but it'll be for another day.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,770]

Crap. I had a long detailed post and when I opened a a new tab on my phone to verify I had remembered things correctly and came back to post it was gone.

So the short truncated version is, there's no video of the shooting but you say it's definitely a racial killing. It's not. It's an American Police thing. James Boyd and Kelley Thomas were killed by police on video for no reason and the police were ruled justified. It doesn't matter the race they'll kill you as soon as you give them an excuse.

The other races just don't riot about it.

Blacks make up 13% of the population. If they decide to race war like you're advocating them to do there'll only be one possible outcome. Historical injustices are that, history. Why is it that a Pakistani or Iraqi or a Nigerian, or Somali, or Ethiopian or Indian can come here and be successful if we were such a racist country? The "keeping it real" "thug culture" that permeates such a large percentage of the urban communities is what's holding them back. In them when a black child tries to do well he's bullied and told he's "acting white". There's more but it'll be for another day.

Because the racist VISA culture of America means most people coming to the states have to be more educated than the average American, and even then these groups are allowed to create enclaves which African Americans have had destroyed through centuries of systemic oppression.

Its easy to say such and such group is doing better when only the best of that group is allowed in. I have to tell Pakistanis in America this all the time when they are quick to criticize the ones in Europe.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Crap. I had a long detailed post and when I opened a a new tab on my phone to verify I had remembered things correctly and came back to post it was gone.

So the short truncated version is, there's no video of the shooting but you say it's definitely a racial killing. It's not. It's an American Police thing. James Boyd and Kelley Thomas were killed by police on video for no reason and the police were ruled justified. It doesn't matter the race they'll kill you as soon as you give them an excuse.

The other races just don't riot about it.

Blacks make up 13% of the population. If they decide to race war like you're advocating them to do there'll only be one possible outcome. Historical injustices are that, history. Why is it that a Pakistani or Iraqi or a Nigerian, or Somali, or Ethiopian or Indian can come here and be successful if we were such a racist country? The "keeping it real" "thug culture" that permeates such a large percentage of the urban communities is what's holding them back. In them when a black child tries to do well he's bullied and told he's "acting white". There's more but it'll be for another day.

How did you infer that I was saying that it's definitely a "racial killing"?

I have absolutely no idea if Darren Wilson was consciously racially motivated when he murdered Mike Brown. Was he subconsciously affected by the racist stereotypes? Most probably, yes. But that does not make it a racial killing nor is it the main issue here, imo. And of course that does not take away from the fact that as you said it is more of a "police issue" and there are plenty of very dangerous issues with most police in the US like militarization, over protection by the law at the expense of the citizens, lots of powers and permissions that don't really make sense, lack of state monitoring...etc.

Like I said, the events after the death of Mike Brown showed a much uglier racism. From the response of the police that practically criminalized the whole community, to the shameful coverage and lies by most mainstream media sources and the attempts to dehumanize all African-Americans. Take the pic that Kieran posted. That is a terrible attempt to paint a whole race in a certain manner and worse using that stereotype as sort of a justification why Mike and others like him deserve to be killed and worst it turned out to be a complete fake: http://kfor.com/2014/08/19/officer-mistakenly-posts-photo-of-murder-suspect-in-michael-brown-rant/

I really don't have time to answer this properly but there are plenty of scientific studies that show that the attitudes of African-American communities (political and social opinions) have almost zero influence on state policies (as does the lower 70% on the income spectrum, but that's another discussion). People of color, especially males, are also very unlikely to get a decent chance of being integrated into the mainstream society. Are there exceptions? Of course there are, but they don't change the facts above.

I'm by no means an expert on the subject, but the "thug culture" you speak of is a result of much of the mainstream society not accepting them as their equals even now. It's also a result of a methodical targeting by state and it's laws for African-American communities such as lack of funding, lack of interesting in developing vital sectors such as educational, health...etc. Even things like state support of investments and eagerness to find economical solutions differs completely between say Mississippi or Detroit and New York or California, as does the manner in which the police are trained and equipped. Racism is undeniably still very much alive in the US, and trying to deny that is a very dangerous slippery slope, imho.

Finally, I'm not at all calling for "race war", however, I do think that a civil rights fight is a good idea that everyone in the US should back, regardless of race or ethnic background. Reforms and before that a genuine, honest debate about racism and the widening of the socioeconomic gap that leads to a cultural and political change is very sourly needed. The usual empty rhetorics in US politics and iteration between the two faces of the same coin will likely drive the country into self-destruction.

[iseah100 5,612]

How did you infer that I was saying that it's definitely a "racial killing"?

I have absolutely no idea if Darren Wilson was consciously racially motivated when he murdered Mike Brown. Was he subconsciously affected by the racist stereotypes? Most probably, yes. But that does not make it a racial killing nor is it the main issue here, imo. And of course that does not take away from the fact that as you said it is more of a "police issue" and there are plenty of very dangerous issues with most police in the US like militarization, over protection by the law at the expense of the citizens, lots of powers and permissions that don't really make sense, lack of state monitoring...etc.

Like I said, the events after the death of Mike Brown showed a much uglier racism. From the response of the police that practically criminalized the whole community, to the shameful coverage and lies by most mainstream media sources and the attempts to dehumanize all African-Americans. Take the pic that Kieran posted. That is a terrible attempt to paint a whole race in a certain manner and worse using that stereotype as sort of a justification why Mike and others like him deserve to be killed and worst it turned out to be a complete fake: http://kfor.com/2014/08/19/officer-mistakenly-posts-photo-of-murder-suspect-in-michael-brown-rant/

I really don't have time to answer this properly but there are plenty of scientific studies that show that the attitudes of African-American communities (political and social opinions) have almost zero influence on state policies (as does the lower 70% on the income spectrum, but that's another discussion). People of color, especially males, are also very unlikely to get a decent chance of being integrated into the mainstream society. Are there exceptions? Of course there are, but they don't change the facts above.

I'm by no means an expert on the subject, but the "thug culture" you speak of is a result of much of the mainstream society not accepting them as their equals even now. It's also a result of a methodical targeting by state and it's laws for African-American communities such as lack of funding, lack of interesting in developing vital sectors such as educational, health...etc. Even things like state support of investments and eagerness to find economical solutions differs completely between say Mississippi or Detroit and New York or California, as does the manner in which the police are trained and equipped. Racism is undeniably still very much alive in the US, and trying to deny that is a very dangerous slippery slope, imho.

Finally, I'm not at all calling for "race war", however, I do think that a civil rights fight is a good idea that everyone in the US should back, regardless of race or ethnic background. Reforms and before that a genuine, honest debate about racism and the widening of the socioeconomic gap that leads to a cultural and political change is very sourly needed. The usual empty rhetorics in US politics and iteration between the two faces of the same coin will likely drive the country into self-destruction.

Great, great, great post. [emoji122] [emoji106]

[iseah100 5,612]

RIP Eric Garner

[CHOULO19 24,332]

RIP Eric Garner

He died months ago, though. What died now was the (very slim) chance of justice for him. And it would also be the death sentence for tens and even hundreds just like him if people don't organize and force a genuine change.

[iseah100 5,612]

He died months ago, though. What died now was the (very slim) chance of justice for him. And it would also be the death sentence for tens and even hundreds just like him if people don't organize and force a genuine change.

I know.

It's fucking disgusting, these cops can do anything they want. Did you see the video? Poor guy was just tired of cops harassing him. They get away with murder time and time again. I am planning on becoming a police officer and trying to force a change, or be the change. The worst part about it is that some people still try to convince themselves it's not about race. It is. This is not coincidence.

[Kieran. 6,317]