Politics & Stuff

[The only place to be 11,313]

People assume now that religion is the cause of violence and want it scrapped from existence. It's not religion that's the problem, it's human nature to fight.

Stupidity and desperation are the causes of violence - religion is just a very good way of channeling it in a particular direction. These 'angry young men' who travel to fight for IS are disenfranchised and this form of Islam gives them a very clear, easy to follow structure. It tells them who to blame, who to fight in the name of and what they'll get in return for it (more than the crap life they've got laid out for them). There's probably a sense of fraternity in that life and they probably get a sense of achievement they wouldn't otherwise. It's not a coincidence that the Middle East has some terrifyingly high rates of illiteracy and also some terrifying religious nutballs.

[Roquila 1,335]

Briefly...

Most of the time they're created by an elite (usually men) to control the masses. They're inherently corrupt(ing), dangerous but I can also see the appeal of them. They tend to have an unhealthy obsession with women's sexuality, fearing it and going to quite extreme lengths to 'control' it.

I really don't have a problem with people being religious though. I'm sure for many people it actually helps them in their day-to-day lives and that's probably a beautiful thing, but the problem is when it affects others that I take issue with it. Things like gay rights, women's rights etc. are invariably affected by religious beliefs and that's when it is open to criticism.

Generally though I treat religion like a treat any other type of ideological set of beliefs which is why words like Islamophobe seem so silly. There are probably hundreds of religious or political beliefs I dislike to varying degrees, yet that is the only one I have a phobia about?? Why not Scientoligiphobe (if that's even the word) or Naziphobe?

Anyway, a very brief outline of what I think about religion. The reason I bring up Scientology is because it's a modern-day miracle in that it's a religion/cult that you can clearly see has been fabricated by a bit of a nutter, yet it's not any different from any other religion out there. It's essentially a blueprint for deconstructing all other types of cult of belief systems. Anyways....

You're being called an Islamophobe because Muslims generally seem to be more touched about their religion. I live in a country where 90% of the people are Muslims, let me tell you how many of them tick.

Most of them are as close minded as it gets.

The most fearsome creature for them are women, everytime they see a women with a skirt they look away and say that's a devil in a human body.

You drink alchool? You cannot be their friend, ever.

You don't believe in god? Shame on you, you cunt, god will kill you with lightning , you will feel his wrath. (This is the everyday shit i have to deal with btw)

You are a Christian? Your religion is a disgrace, my god created your religion but then he created my religion 600 years later and therefore my religion is better than yours because my religion is the newest one.

You go to clubs with your friends at night? You will go to hell and burn for an eternity(the concept of eternity in Islam doesn't actually mean 'Eternity'. Eternity means 'Until doomsday')

Your sister has a boyfriend but isn't married? What a whore, it's bad enough she doesn't wear a hijab but she also has a boyfriend. She will burn in hell for an eternity.

And there are some rare cases.... These rare cases have so many good things in them that i cannot describe. There is this thing with good religious people that i love but cannot describe. They are so wise sometimes and they speak in a very friendly way but yeah, that's the rare case.

Question for you now(or anybody else who cares to answer)

Do you think that Christians are generally more peacefull and aren't so insecure about their religion?

[The only place to be 11,313]

Do you think that Christians are generally more peacefull and aren't so insecure about their religion?

I think you could publish a comic image satirising Jesus, Mary, Joseph and God himself without the author having to go into hiding for his own safety.

I think a respected author could write a book about referencing these figures without having a religious leader putting a contract out on his life.

I think a comedian could feel comfortable telling a joke on TV without the broadcaster feeling the need to censor it for the safety of their employees.

Christians do tend to have that whole 'turn the other cheek' mentality, although they can get a bit protesty when a comedian writes a play involving Jerry Springer and Jesus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Springer:_The_Opera#Protests_and_controversy

We also had the controversy with Monty Python's The Life of Brian in the 1970s, but John Cleese didn't have to check under his car for explosive devices of a morning. The most he had to do was defend it on a late-night chat show to a Bishop (who it transpired may have had some rather dark secrets in his closet, quelle surprise).

So whilst I do think you can look at all religions and find very worrying things in each of them, there's something about modern Islam that goes further.

[Roquila 1,335]

I think you could publish a comic image satirising Jesus, Mary, Joseph and God himself without the author having to go into hiding for his own safety.

I think a respected author could write a book about referencing these figures without having a religious leader putting a contract out on his life.

I think a comedian could feel comfortable telling a joke on TV without the broadcaster feeling the need to censor it for the safety of their employees.

Christians do tend to have that whole 'turn the other cheek' mentality, although they can get a bit protesty when a comedian writes a play involving Jerry Springer and Jesus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Springer:_The_Opera#Protests_and_controversy

We also had the controversy with Monty Python's The Life of Brian in the 1970s, but John Cleese didn't have to check under his car for explosive devices of a morning. The most he had to do was defend it on a late-night chat show to a Bishop (who it transpired may have had some rather dark secrets in his closet, quelle surprise).

So whilst I do think you can look at all religions and find very worrying things in each of them, there's something about modern Islam that goes further.

Life must be good in England.

A Magician( yea we have this shit here , dont ask lol) was called on Live TV to have a debate with an Imam (the priests of Islam). That poor bloke had a whole nation calling for his head and was being laughed at the show LIVE from the spectators that were there.

An Imam said on Live TV that our President(wich happens to be a women) Dresses like a slut and that she is a disgrace to our country. http://www.president-ksgov.net/repository/images/12_09_2013_3854186_Atifete_Jahjaga.jpg (that's her, dont get scared though )

The biggest religious object in Kosovo is a Cathedral in the middle of the Capital City(Prishtina). I don't really have to explain this.

An Islam politic Party wished death upon our Prime Minister AND his Family because he didn't let them take part in the elections (i will lick his balls for this)

A member of a Politic Party that only 1.4% of the population voted came out on Live TV that he is an Atheist, his facebook was bombarded with comments like: I will kill you because you are not with religion of peace (i literally just traslated it) and many of these kinds.

When i was 16 my Physics teacher suggested me to start praying because that will help me ( i was the craziest kid in the school ). I told her i dont believe in god. Called my Mom, got me suspended.

Being close minded is the new thing here i guess.

LONG LIVE MY GERMAN PASSPORT , I CAN FUCK OFF WHENEVER I WANT.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Stupidity and desperation are the causes of violence - religion is just a very good way of channeling it in a particular direction. These 'angry young men' who travel to fight for IS are disenfranchised and this form of Islam gives them a very clear, easy to follow structure. It tells them who to blame, who to fight in the name of and what they'll get in return for it (more than the crap life they've got laid out for them). There's probably a sense of fraternity in that life and they probably get a sense of achievement they wouldn't otherwise. It's not a coincidence that the Middle East has some terrifyingly high rates of illiteracy and also some terrifying religious nutballs.

I won't lie that illiteracy is not a huge part of violence in the middle east areas. I know for a fact that a lot of Muslims would not be swayed into joining ISIS and other Islamic groups if they were more literate or even knew more about the Koran. That way no one would come to convince you with something you know is wrong.

On the other hand, many of the leaders in terrorist groups are actually literate like the one that schooled in Britain that beheaded the American reporter. These ones are out for power and financial gain, twisting the religion to sway the illiterate along with financial incentives for the poverty stricken and they easily have an army.

Sad to see religion used as a means to cause havoc. I don't know about the Koran well, but if only Muslims/islamics can be more vocal on the areas in the Koran that says violence/killing is not good, more people will have better knowledge of the Koran and more people won't be swayed into Islamic terrorism.

[The only place to be 11,313]

On the other hand, many of the leaders in terrorist groups are actually literate like the one that schooled in Britain that beheaded the American reporter. These ones are out for power and financial gain, twisting the religion to sway the illiterate along with financial incentives for the poverty stricken and they easily have an army.

That's a good point and I think it has a bit in common with the football hooligans of the 1980s. Take The Firm for example (great Alan Clarke film, Gary Oldman is amazing in it). It was about guys who in their normal lives were average men, somewhat powerless, emasculated and pathetic in some ways but as part of this 'gang' they were powerful, They commanded respect amongst their peers in a way they didn't elsewhere.

Others have echoed that sentiment, that maybe these men travelling to fight simply don't have that purpose to their lives and extremist Islam takes advantage of that. But I (and many others based on my experiences) don't give a fuck about that anymore. Our sympathy has dissipated. You can look at the rise of Hitler in the 1930s and trace it back to the punitive measures the Treaty of Versailles inflicted on the German people, but that doesn't mean I feel bad about us going to war with them.

What we have now is an evil ideology that needs to be combatted and it will happen, somehow.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

That's a good point and I think it has a bit in common with the football hooligans of the 1980s. Take The Firm for example (great Alan Clarke film, Gary Oldman is amazing in it). It was about guys who in their normal lives were average men, somewhat powerless, emasculated and pathetic in some ways but as part of this 'gang' they were powerful, They commanded respect amongst their peers in a way they didn't elsewhere.

Others have echoed that sentiment, that maybe these men travelling to fight simply don't have that purpose to their lives and extremist Islam takes advantage of that. But I (and many others based on my experiences) don't give a fuck about that anymore. Our sympathy has dissipated. You can look at the rise of Hitler in the 1930s and trace it back to the punitive measures the Treaty of Versailles inflicted on the German people, but that doesn't mean I feel bad about us going to war with them.

What we have now is an evil ideology that needs to be combatted and it will happen, somehow.

More and more people will get sick of it and It will be combated sooner or later sadly. That's why I'm hoping the areas of Islamic doctrine that preach non violence should be made public so that people will stop increasing on the other side.

That is why people are not showing as much concern as there should be on those poor people dying in Gaza, because they include them among the terrorists bracket if they help hamas.

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

We seem to have moved away from politics to religion, but this is understandable as the lines are often blurred.

In the UK and other western countries we have privileged, pampered so called 'Royal families'. These groups descendants justified their rule and slaughter of all competitors in that they were 'ordained by God'. People say they are now an anachronism, a quaint legacy. The truth is the 'Crown' wields immense power. People in the uk are not legally citizens, but 'subjects'. There are 1500-2000 unelected senior civil servants, answering directly to 'the Crown', who remain in their positions of power regardless of which party is voted in, and determine uk policy. The government of the day, which when elected has to ask the queen to form a government, are generally a mouthpiece for the civil servants loyal to 'the crown' policies.

ISIS, Saudi Royal family, and others believe they have a right to behave as they do, again because they are 'ordained' and have divine right by their God. Israel believes that the land was given to them by their God. No wonder its fucked up.

This prompts the age old question Athens or Jerusalem ? Secularism, the separation of God from all State affairs is so much preferable to my mind. The lines get blurred though, and distorted when pseudo religous justification occurs. Israel now think theyre morally superior, so called Christians in the White House, spurred on by Texan fundamental Christian Republicans and Israeli billionaires, carpet bomb with impunity, and muslim extremists distort the Quran to suit their agenda.

After 9/11 there were twice as many people bombed in Afghanistan 3 months later than were killed in the Trade Centres. People with no internet, no news, yet were prime suspects or 'associates' even though teh US had concrete evidence the (dead) suspects were Saudis. Prior to this the Taliban were courted and feted in the US.

The main problems in the middle east stem from Western intervention, from the carving up of Iraq creating Kuwait in the 1920s, to the installation of Israel, to the bombing and opening up of Iraq in the 1990s and 2000s, opening a hornets nest of released ethnicities.

This modern day colonialism, can be crystallised last week when you have a more than likely, London college educated young man chopping off the head of an American college educated man, in a country thousands of miles away, that neither should be fighting over.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

muslim extremists distort the Quran to suit their agenda.

Actually, ISIS said that the current one has been distorted and are now writing their own Quran. I kid you not!

http://www.14publications.com/blog/isis-want-to-change-quran/

http://www.pakistantv.tv/2014/08/04/daesh-isis-want-rewrite-quran/#sthash.YWwtySi2.dpbs

[The Skipper 20,593]

Actually, ISIS said that the current one has been distorted and are now writing their own Quran. I kid you not!

http://www.14publications.com/blog/isis-want-to-change-quran/

http://www.pakistantv.tv/2014/08/04/daesh-isis-want-rewrite-quran/#sthash.YWwtySi2.dpbs

Wow. Incredible if true.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Wow. Incredible if true.

That's nothing. They plan to destroy the Kaaba (you know that big square black thing that thousands of Muslims pilgrims pray around each year)

Don't even ask me to explain why because I honestly don't get it. This last Fitr Eid (it's the Muslim holiday at the end of the holy month of fasting, Ramadan) they prevented mosques from doing the Eid prayer (a very famous Muslim tradition).

It's really not defending or making excuses for Islam when one says that ISIS are not Muslim.

[The Skipper 20,593]

That's nothing. They plan to destroy the Kaaba (you know that big square black thing that thousands of Muslims pilgrims pray around each year)

Don't even ask me to explain why because I honestly don't get it. This last Fitr Eid (it's the Muslim holiday at the end of the holy month of fasting, Ramadan) they prevented mosques from doing the Eid prayer (a very famous Muslim tradition).

It's really not defending or making excuses for Islam when one says that ISIS are not Muslim.

Yeah, I have muslim friends and know a lot about how treasured all those events and places are since I used to have a lot of debates with them but wow... That's awful. I wouldn't even remotely affiliate IS with Islam anymore, that's shocking.

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

Actually, ISIS said that the current one has been distorted and are now writing their own Quran. I kid you not!

http://www.14publications.com/blog/isis-want-to-change-quran/

http://www.pakistantv.tv/2014/08/04/daesh-isis-want-rewrite-quran/#sthash.YWwtySi2.dpbs

A theme echoed through history. In the UK we are taught about the 'Reformation'.

Basically Henry VIII married to Catherine of Aragon, wanted to fuck Anne Boleyn, but the Catholic Church and Papal doctrine forbade any divorce. So what did old Enry do ? Set up his own religion, The Church of England. So then he got divorced, married Anne Boleyn and chopped her head off. The Church of Psychotic Bastards, more like.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

A theme echoed through history. In the UK we are taught about the 'Reformation'.

Basically Henry VIII married to Catherine of Aragon, wanted to fuck Anne Boleyn, but the Catholic Church and Papal doctrine forbade any divorce. So what did old Enry do ? Set up his own religion, The Church of England. So then he got divorced, married Anne Boleyn and chopped her head off. The Church of Psychotic Bastards, more like.

Yes, except those lot want to kill more people. They want to remove the part about Islam being a choice and not something that people have to follow.

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

Yes, except those lot want to kill more people. They want to remove the part about Islam being a choice and not something that people have to follow.

Do you think sunnis and other muslims will attack or nullify them ? Is this preferable to US bombing ?Washington already allegedly opening up diologue with shia Iran along the lines of "my enemies enemy is my friend."

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Do you think sunnis and other muslims will attack or nullify them ? Is this preferable to US bombing ?Washington already allegedly opening up diologue with shia Iran along the lines of "my enemies enemy is my friend."

I think ISIS are temporary by force of human nature. It's not a matter of religion or culture or civilization. You only need to be human to reject them. Hence they are doomed to be rejected like a cancerous cell from their birth.

The only question is when will they start to recede. That, unfortunately, is a political question. Because, let's be honest, if everyone wanted them gone, they will be gone. They are currently a political card used to put pressure on the opponents by both sides. A very wild and violent political pressure card but still only a tool.

I suspect the beginning of their end to be as part of a regional political agreement from Iran to Syria to Iraq to Lebanon even to Palestine. Because only a KSA-Iran agreement (and by KSA I mean USA) can end ISIS. But that is going to be a very slow procedure. I'm talking months, maybe even years.

And slightly off the political radar, people will continue to die by the thousands, unfortunately.

[The only place to be 11,313]

In the UK and other western countries we have privileged, pampered so called 'Royal families'. These groups descendants justified their rule and slaughter of all competitors in that they were 'ordained by God'. People say they are now an anachronism, a quaint legacy. The truth is the 'Crown' wields immense power. People in the uk are not legally citizens, but 'subjects'. There are 1500-2000 unelected senior civil servants, answering directly to 'the Crown', who remain in their positions of power regardless of which party is voted in, and determine uk policy. The government of the day, which when elected has to ask the queen to form a government, are generally a mouthpiece for the civil servants loyal to 'the crown' policies.

Scary....except not true. Let's not pretend that anything you've uttered there actually has any basis in reality. The Crown does not 'wield immense power' for fuck's sake.

In fact your whole post is very Ben Elton circa-1987 in that it's tremendously right-on (with all due respect) but doesn't really deal with things as they exist in a real way. Yes the British Empire did some horrible things and we have a hand in the state of the Middle East, but handwringing about white guilt doesn't actually address what we should do now.

I like you as a poster and you seem a sound bloke but I just think that we've moved beyond this type of thinking and actually have to look at how we deal with the issues as they exist in reality, not in a classroom or textbook.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Hamas Finally admitted they killed the 3 Israel teenagers, and yesterday they killed this 4 year old kid

RIP to those 4 young people, and RIP to the 500 young Palestinians that IDF have killed.