Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

don't know if it's true or not, saw it at some friends' but there's this site with all sort of videos about what's going on there currently and in one of them a Palestine said that the Israeli went through a village or something at one evening and said they would attack there the following day and said people should leave so they weren't killed in the process. Then civilians were getting their stuff packed to leave and the Hamas soldiers came and told them if they left they'd kill them because they need to touch the world with their deaths when Israel attacked them.

I don't know what shocked me more - Israeli soldiers thinking that asking people to leave their houses make it okay for them to destroy them - or the Ramas ordering and threatening people to stay and probably die, just so their potential deaths shock and touch the world.

I ask if that's true because the audio of course wasn't in English and who knows who's translated that. In the site seemingly had videos pro-Israel and pro-Palestine (or against both, you decide). Either way there's a reason why I don't try to get too much informed about what really goes on in some places nowadays. The reality is too shocking for me and I don't know even 0.01% of what really goes on.

Doesn't make sense to be honest because Hamas is not the type to try to get sympathy. In fact they're against all the victimizing of the Palestinian people because they're all for the propaganda that they are all powerful and fear no one. It's kind of a "my God is stronger than yours" religious extremist thing.

But if you can provide the audio, I'd be happy to translate it.

Generally speaking, Palestinians are VERY reluctant to leave their houses anywhere after millions were thrown out of theirs in 1948 to be replaced by Israelis and even since then Israel have methodically destroyed Palestinian houses to replace them with more settlements. To Palestinians, if they leave their house, they probably never return to it again.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/iraqi-christians-mosul-isis-convert-islam-or-be-executed

The evil that the US and it's allies in the area created. But you have to say, this is very similar to the Muslims and Christians having to evacuate most of Palestine in 1948 or get executed, right?

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

So that's not part of the Hamas Charter then?

Yes it is. If you bothered yourself and read the previous pages, you would have known for a fact that everyone here ( I am not excluding anyone) doesn't like Hamas and think they are terrorists. But if you bother yourself a bit more and read, you will also know that this isn't a religious matter like you are trying to imply mate. Seriously you need to get some knowledge about this.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Yes it is. If you bothered yourself and read the previous pages, you would have known for a fact that everyone here ( I am not excluding anyone) doesn't like Hamas and think they are terrorists. But if you bother yourself a bit more and read, you will also know that this isn't a religious matter like you are trying to imply mate. Seriously you need to get some knowledge about this.

So why did the Palestinians "democratically" vote for a terrorist organisation? Is it that they quietly agree with the ideology of ISIS or that they were unknowingly coerced to doing so or what exactly?

Also, what are your views on the Muslim Brotherhood, the organisation that created (or is an offshoot of) Hamas?

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

So why did the Palestinians "democratically" vote for a terrorist organisation? Is it that they quietly agree with the ideology of ISIS or that they were unknowingly coerced to doing so or what exactly?

Also, what are your views on the Muslim Brotherhood, the organisation that created (or is an offshoot of) Hamas?

James give it up. You have been trying so hard to take a swing at religion. You should know what you are talking about before you type anything. Go read some history and you will know what this is all about. You will also know who expelled the Jews out if from their land. Maybe you would be more humble. Also read about how this whole conflict started, then maybe, you can have a case to argue.

[twobanger 13]

No I wouldn't. I've already stated the difference is cultural. I would be hunting Hamas leadership for putting my family in a situation to be slaughtered for little gain other than photo-ops to show how mean Israel is.

Pragmatism is better than pride in this instance. Look at Japan and Germany. They were vanquished people with occupiers living amongst them. Where are they now, where would you think they would be if their response had been to form an insurgency?

[The only place to be 11,313]

Yes it is. If you bothered yourself and read the previous pages, you would have known for a fact that everyone here ( I am not excluding anyone) doesn't like Hamas and think they are terrorists. But if you bother yourself a bit more and read, you will also know that this isn't a religious matter like you are trying to imply mate. Seriously you need to get some knowledge about this.

You have to be joking if you think that's the case, especially when people question 'the west's' view of this conflict.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

You have to be joking if you think that's the case, especially when people question 'the west's' view of this conflict.

What is the case then mate? Share your knowledge with us please.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

No I wouldn't. I've already stated the difference is cultural. I would be hunting Hamas leadership for putting my family in a situation to be slaughtered for little gain other than photo-ops to show how mean Israel is.

Pragmatism is better than pride in this instance. Look at Japan and Germany. They were vanquished people with occupiers living amongst them. Where are they now, where would you think they would be if their response had been to form an insurgency?

You're not really getting what I'm saying. Hamas are bad, but they are very new to the struggle. Irrelevant of Hamas's existence or anything they fire at Israel, the Palestinians aren't allowed to exists since the inception of Israel and they are headed to being wiped off the map. They were slaughtered long before Hamas and they will continue to be slaughtered even if Hamas disappears into thin air.

You can't possibly compare them to Germany and Japan. No one wanted to erase Japan and Germany off the map.

[The only place to be 11,313]

What is the case then mate? Share your knowledge with us please.

You can stop calling me mate any time you want.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

You can stop calling me mate any time you want.

You can put a solid argument any time you can mate

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

The evil that the US and it's allies in the area created. But you have to say, this is very similar to the Muslims and Christians having to evacuate most of Palestine in 1948 or get executed, right?

You can't blame the West for all the ills of Humanity. The Americans didn't make these people act like barbarians. They've abused the liberty of Saddam's demise to kill, murder, rape and mutilate.

[Dion 2,476]

And where is Hamas in all of this? Hamas is the main conspirator pulling the strings behind the scenes. I've already posted their charter which says their goal is to obliterate Israel from existence. This is why they continually shoot rockets into Israel to kill civilians and in hope of a retaliation from the IDF. This is how this new conflict as well as the others began. Hamas is a very radical and evil organisation and they are the problem and not the solution. The fact that they were "democratically" elected is proven by history to be irrelevant. Even Hitler and the Nazi's were democratically elected and the rest is history. Fatah at least recognizes Isreal's right to exist. I think at least this is a much better alternative to Hamas whose ideology is fueled by Jew hatred. They will never be at peace with the Jews because they don't want to. The Palestinian's are just collateral damage the same way the German citizens were under the Nazi regime.

All the problem with what you're saying is that collateral damage implies unintended murder of civilians, which doesn't seem to be the case according to the information brought onto this thread. What it looks like to be occurring is Israel using Hamas as an excuse to indiscriminately kill palestinians. Their actions doesn't match their words. If they were truly concerned about Hamas only, this wouldn't be their course of action. What appears to be happening is that they want to wipe palestinians from the face of the planet and Hamas is giving them "justification" to do so.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

All the problem with what you're saying is that collateral damage implies unintended murder of civilians, which doesn't seem to be the case according to the information brought onto this thread. What it looks like to be occurring is Israel using Hamas as an excuse to indiscriminately kill palestinians. Their actions doesn't match their words. If they were truly concerned about Hamas only, this wouldn't be their course of action. What appears to be happening is that they want to wipe palestinians from the face of the planet and Hamas is giving them "justification" to do so.

Wow, just WOW. Most of the "information" on the thread is from people that have vested interest to this. You can't separate the religious aspect from what is happening in Gaza. There is both religious and political aspect and the former outweighs the latter. Iisten to the Arabic and what Hamas leaders are saying not any "information" from football forums. Now, you can choose to live in la la land and bury your head in the sand, that's fine. Enjoy yourself.

[Barbara 15,149]

My knowledge is very limited and while I have absolutely NOTHING against the religious Muslim and I definitely think that the situation in Israel doesn't have a right and a wrong side for a long time, they're both wrong at this point and time, it's easy to find people in the Western not sympathizing at all with the civilians being killed... But that's not only why I think there's such an 'anti' feeling towards Muslims in many places in the Western. That's only part of it, I'm not even sure if that's the biggest part of it, but I'm positive the Muslim involvement in many wars and conflicts in many other countries are one of the big reasons people can't be sympathetic to them.

Yes, the situation in Israel is impossible to choose a side imo - they're both equally guilty at this point (at least from my little informed perspective), but what to say about other countries where some sort of authoritarianism Muslim organization or radical wing wants to have the power, to control everything and whoever disagrees is in the middle of the cross fire?

Everyone (hopefully) can separate the normal religious person from those extremist/terrorist/violent believers, but they - the bad guys let's call them like that - give a really bad reputation to Muslim in general - even when we know most people are peaceful and lucid in their views and takes and won't resort to violence. It just gives the whole community a bad name...

So when you see Muslims associated with wars and conflicts in Syria, Egypt, Middle Eastern countries, African countries, etc... is really easy for the neutral person just have a bad impression about them. I think the Western media escalates things a lot and The Jew community capitalizes on a bad situation for the Muslim... that's why so many people in the specific conflict with Israel are pro-Jews. A huge mistake imo, but it's easy to understand why it happens when the first thing many people at this side of the globe associate with Muslims is violence whether Israel is involved or not.

Things couldn't be more distorted by how they are currently imo, starting with the idea that a God - whoever that God is - want people to die and be in war because of his name. Confusing and distorted.

edit: I deleted an important part of the post trying to shorten it. I think Western media is biased in the Israel x Palestine conflict and it influences people. But the other conflicts involving part of the Muslim community - the crazy ones - do no favor for their name...

edit 2: I am sympathetic to everyone who dies and have their loved ones killed, I don't care which side of the conflict that is, a minority has no right to destroy whole countries - physically or emotionally - because of their beliefs, whether they're political or religious.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Barbara

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

My knowledge is very limited and while I have absolutely NOTHING against the religious Muslim and I definitely think that the situation in Israel doesn't have a right and a wrong side for a long time, they're both wrong at this point and time... But that's not only why I think there's such an 'anti' feeling towards Muslims in many places in the Western. That's only part of it, I'm not even sure if that's the biggest part of it, but I'm positive the Muslim involvement in many wars and conflicts in many other countries are one of the big reasons people can't be sympathetic to them.

Yes, the situation in Israel is impossible to choose a side imo - they're both equally guilty at this point (at least from my little informed perspective), but what to say about other countries where some sort of authoritarianism Muslim organization or radical wing wants to have the power, to control everything and whoever disagrees is in the middle of the cross fire?

Everyone (hopefully) can separate the normal religious person from those extremist/terrorist/violent believers, but they - the bad guys let's call them like that - give a really bad reputation to Muslim in general - even when we know most people are peaceful and lucid in their views and takes and won't resort to violence. It just gives the whole community a bad name...

So when you see Muslims associated with wars and conflicts in Syria, Egypt, Middle Eastern countries, African countries, etc... is really easy for the neutral person just have a bad impression about them. I think the Western media escalates things a lot and The Jew community capitalizes on a bad situation for the Muslim... that's why so many people in the specific conflict with Israel are pro-Jews. A huge mistake imo, but it's easy to understand why it happens when the first thing many people at this side of the globe associate with Muslims is violence whether Israel is involved or not.

Things couldn't been more distorted by how they are currently imo, starting with the idea that a God - whoever that God is - want people to die and be in war because of his name. Confusing and distorted.

Palestinians are Muslims, Christian and Jews. Currently Muslims and Christian minority. But all the media does is remove the word Palestinians and put the word Hamas. Like they tried to remove the word Lebanese and replace it with Hezbollah. and Egypt with Muslim brotherhood. It is purely political and are run by a political ideology called Zionism. An ideology that most religious Jew see as no Jewish and refuse it. I am not talking about ordinary religious people only, but Rabbis.