Politics & Stuff

[Fernando 6,464]

Israel are murdering torturing bastards and have thousands of volunteer israeli students trolling the net for anything said against their fascist racist regime.

Now your sounding like those conspiracy theories guys.

But whatever that's your opinion.

[Fulham Broadway 16,858]

Now your sounding like those conspiracy theories guys.

But whatever that's your opinion.

OK

http://trutube.tv/video/21939/Israeli-Internet-Zionist-Trolls-

http://www.eutimes.net/tag/israel-recruits-army-of-bloggers-to-troll-anti-war-websites/

http://www.sott.net/article/252304-Israel-educates-Zionist-trolls-to-manipulate-online-content

http://whitewraithe.wordpress.com/a-guide-to-hasbara-trolls/

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-students-get-2000-spread-state-propaganda-facebook

[Stingray 9,441]

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Wow, Fernando, I've never seen someone trying this hard to sound stupid

If you're not going to make a logical argument or add anything intelligent to the discussion, just leave.

[Fernando 6,464]

Wow, Fernando, I've never seen someone trying this hard to sound stupid

If you're not going to make a logical argument or add anything intelligent to the discussion, just leave.

Well what's stupid about pointing out that there's no Palestinian government but Israel government.

The other government closest to it are Egypt right?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Well what's stupid about pointing out that there's no Palestinian government but Israel government.

The other government closest to it are Egypt right?

What's stupid is trying to say that it's okay for the Palestinian people, the original owners of the land, to lose their homes and their land and be oppressed and abused by a racist state because they don't have a proper government because of that oppression and apartheid.

[Fernando 6,464]

What's stupid is trying to say that it's okay for the Palestinian people, the original owners of the land, to lose their homes and their land and be oppressed and abused by a racist state because they don't have a proper government because of that oppression and apartheid.

Never said it's okay.

Just saying that Palestinian nation doesn't exist.

Only government that exist is Israel.

And the only country that has sovereign claim there is Israel.

And in Israel there's different ethnicity that are not just jews, like the Israeli Palestinian. So it's not like the Palestinian ethnicity is getting extinct.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Oh, look: Here's ISIS Khalifite (leader) Abou Baker Al Baghdadi in meeting with John McCain near the Turkish border about a year ago:

Never said it's okay.

Just saying that Palestinian nation doesn't exist.

Only government that exist is Israel.

And the only country that has sovereign claim there is Israel.

And in Israel there's different ethnicity that are not just jews, like the Israeli Palestinian. So it's not like the Palestinian ethnicity is getting extinct.

No, no, no and no. By your logic, any country can go to places with weak governments like east and central Africa and have more claim to the land than the natives

And the problem is, there are 3.6 million people in Gaza and the West Bank that ARE being oppressed, abused and mass murdered based on their ethnicity.

[Fernando 6,464]

Oh, look: Here's ISIS Khalifite (leader) Abou Baker Al Baghdadi in meeting with John McCain near the Turkish border about a year ago:

No, no, no and no. By your logic, any country can go to places with weak governments like east and central Africa and have more claim to the land than the natives

And the problem is, there are 3.6 million people in Gaza and the West Bank that ARE being oppressed, abused and mass murdered based on their ethnicity.

No it would be different because they don't live there.

It's like Israel coming to Ecuador and taking land...

They live there, those are the borders all the way till Egypt, right?

So the people that have lived there are now just part of Israel, like the Israeli Palestinian ethnicity. Is that right or wrong?

As far as being oppressed, abused and mass murdered I didn't saw that in the video. Just saw a bunch of guys trying to protest against an Army.

And then one guy who went to jail but when he was release the whole town celebrated.

I mean what the hell is that all about?

The people that live in Gaza, have an organization that operates terrorism.

If there was no terrorist organization, Israel would not go to war to that region.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

No it would be different because they don't live there.

It's like Israel coming to Ecuador and taking land...

They live there, those are the borders all the way till Egypt, right?

So the people that have lived there are now just part of Israel, like the Israeli Palestinian ethnicity. Is that right or wrong?

As far as being oppressed, abused and mass murdered I didn't saw that in the video. Just saw a bunch of guys trying to protest against an Army.

And then one guy who went to jail but when he was release the whole town celebrated.

I mean what the hell is that all about?

The people that live in Gaza, have an organization that operates terrorism.

If there was no terrorist organization, Israel would not go to war to that region.

It's not different. That is exactly what happened. First there was just Palestine with a Jewish minority (less than 10% accoriding to the UN and the USA), then Jews were brought in from all over the world by a British-French agreement to take the land of the Palestinians.

No the people that lived there are NOT part of Israel now. A very small minority were given the Israeli passports, but the vast majority were thrown out of the country and are living in refugees camps in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan or living under daily racial harassment and abuse in the West Bank or in the open air prison that is Gaza while being massacred every other year.

Wrong, 'Israel' has been going to war long before Hamas when its 'army' was made of right wing religious extremist multi-national militias and the Palestinians had a secular PLO. In fact, the inception of Israel was through and Israel cannot continue to exists without war. Not my words; the words of the American King-Crane panel.

[Fernando 6,464]

It's not different. That is exactly what happened. First there was just Palestine with a Jewish minority (less than 10% accoriding to the UN and the USA), then Jews were brought in from all over the world by a British-French agreement to take the land of the Palestinians.

No the people that lived there are NOT part of Israel now. A very small minority were given the Israeli passports, but the vast majority were thrown out of the country and are living in refugees camps in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan or living under daily racial harassment and abuse in the West Bank or in the open air prison that is Gaza while being massacred every other year.

Wrong, 'Israel' has been going to war long before Hamas when its 'army' was made of right wing religious extremist multi-national militias and the Palestinians had a secular PLO. In fact, the inception of Israel was through and Israel cannot continue to exists without war. Not my words; the words of the American King-Crane panel.

So it was the English fault then? Damn you England!

But in all seriousness now that Israel is a full fledged nation they are going to fight for everything just like any modern nation.

So they aren't going away unless you wipe them out as Iran leaders have said. The dismantlement of Israel as one of our good English friend here has said will never happen unless Israel is completely wipe out.

But by then no one will be able to live there because of Nuclear waste, radioactivity and what not.

So that's not going to happen without Israel USA and other nations having intervene and fought.

With all these issues for me I see no other solution then just to give all those ethnicity Israeli passport.

A creation of an official Palestine nation will not solve the problem, will just make it worse if all these conflicts are anything to go by.

That whole area needs to be under Israeli control and the people that live there need to be Israeli citizens.

But they must also need to obey the laws like any person being naturalized.

Like in America you might have people of Mexican decent, but they become Americans and they respect the laws and what not. They do keep their history by celebrating things like 5 de mayo and such.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

So it was the English fault then? Damn you England!

But in all seriousness now that Israel is a full fledged nation they are going to fight for everything just like any modern nation.

So they aren't going away unless you wipe them out as Iran leaders have said. The dismantlement of Israel as one of our good English friend here has said will never happen unless Israel is completely wipe out.

But by then no one will be able to live there because of Nuclear waste, radioactivity and what not.

So that's not going to happen without Israel USA and other nations having intervene and fought.

With all these issues for me I see no other solution then just to give all those ethnicity Israeli passport.

A creation of an official Palestine nation will not solve the problem, will just make it worse if all these conflicts are anything to go by.

That whole area needs to be under Israeli control and the people that live there need to be Israeli citizens.

But they must also need to obey the laws like any person being naturalized.

Like in America you might have people of Mexican decent, but they become Americans and they respect the laws and what not. They do keep their history by celebrating things like 5 de mayo and such.

I agree. I've said a couple of times in this thread that of course you can't get rid of the Israelis, it's their home now as well. Trying to do that would be as much an atrocity as what happened to the Palestinians in 1948. The only conceivable solution I see is a single state for all the people in the region. Not called Palestine nor Israel. A single democratic full integrated country with all the people. The more separation and racial segregation there is the more the hatred will grow.

But for that to happen, the biggest issue we currently face is getting Israelis and the world to view the Palestinian people as their equals. That's our current struggle.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

So it was the English fault then? Damn you England!

But in all seriousness now that Israel is a full fledged nation they are going to fight for everything just like any modern nation.

So they aren't going away unless you wipe them out as Iran leaders have said. The dismantlement of Israel as one of our good English friend here has said will never happen unless Israel is completely wipe out.

But by then no one will be able to live there because of Nuclear waste, radioactivity and what not.

So that's not going to happen without Israel USA and other nations having intervene and fought.

With all these issues for me I see no other solution then just to give all those ethnicity Israeli passport.

A creation of an official Palestine nation will not solve the problem, will just make it worse if all these conflicts are anything to go by.

That whole area needs to be under Israeli control and the people that live there need to be Israeli citizens.

But they must also need to obey the laws like any person being naturalized.

Like in America you might have people of Mexican decent, but they become Americans and they respect the laws and what not. They do keep their history by celebrating things like 5 de mayo and such.

It's sad but what you said here is truly what Israel want. But a lot of bloodshed will happen before they accept to come under an Israeli name. It's not easy to just forget about the past and move on like the blacks/Mexican/hispanique Americans did.

The only other way for peace in that area is for Gaza to have its sovereignty and become a nation.

[Fernando 6,464]

I agree. I've said a couple of times in this thread that of course you can't get rid of the Israelis, it's their home now as well. Trying to do that would be as much an atrocity as what happened to the Palestinians in 1948. The only conceivable solution I see is a single state for all the people in the region. Not called Palestine nor Israel. A single democratic full integrated country with all the people. The more separation and racial segregation there is the more the hatred will grow.

But for that to happen, the biggest issue we currently face is getting Israelis and the world to view the Palestinian people as their equals. That's our current struggle.

The Democratic nation is there, it's Israel.

Just that the people fighting Israel just need to negotiate for Israeli citizenship then trying to negotiate for creating a Palestinian state.

It's sad but what you said here is truly what Israel want. But a lot of bloodshed will happen before they accept to come under an Israeli name. It's not easy to just forget about the past and move on like the blacks/Mexican/hispanique Americans did.

The only other way for peace in that area is for Gaza to have its sovereignty and become a nation.

I think that would create even more problems then anything, Gaza being a nation.

The easiest route is have all that place be in total control of Israel and all the people be Israelis citizen.

Have the right and protection like any other Israelie.

Now it won't be perfect at the beginning because as you said it's past. Kinda like Blacks, some blacks still live in the past and others have moved on.

For people that want peace that for me seems to be the best solution.

Long term all the segregation and hatred might be less in say 50 years under one single nation.

Was watching a documentary about a dance instructor in Jaffa trying to bring Israeli Jews and Israeli Palestine together.

Was hard but eventually they started working together.

So a one nation under Israel in the long term might work then having Israel and another nation in conflict next to each other.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The Democratic nation is there, it's Israel.

Just that the people fighting Israel just need to negotiate for Israeli citizenship then trying to negotiate for creating a Palestinian state.

No it isn't. It's a racist apartheid state that has committed countless massacres, war crimes and atrocities since it's inception. There cannot be peace while Israel continues to exist, at least not in its current form.

And the "democratic nation" is just PR bullshit. Go ask the Jews who want peace or the ex-soldiers who want to reveal atrocities of the army if they have any freedom to speak their mind. In this attack on Gaza, Israeli parliament members have been assaulted by the police, thrown out and banned from the parliament for calling to end the massacres in Gaza.

[Fernando 6,464]

No it isn't. It's a racist apartheid state that has committed countless massacres, war crimes and atrocities since it's inception. There cannot be peace while Israel continues to exist, at least not in its current form.

And the "democratic nation" is just PR bullshit. Go ask the Jews who want peace or the ex-soldiers who want to reveal atrocities of the army if they have any freedom to speak their mind. In this attack on Gaza, Israeli parliament members have been assaulted by the police, thrown out and banned from the parliament for calling to end the massacres in Gaza.

Well that's the same thing people say about USA that is this bad nation and ask that shenanigans but I can go there freely with no problems.

Israeli structure is there. The people need to just become citizens of the nation.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Well that's the same thing people say about USA that is this bad nation and ask that shenanigans but I can go there freely with no problems.

Israeli structure is there. The people need to just become citizens of the nation.

The structure is irrelevant if the ideology and beliefs don't change. Israel defines itself as Jewish only state, how can it be the nation of the Palestinian people as well?

[Fernando 6,464]

The structure is irrelevant if the ideology and beliefs don't change. Israel defines itself as Jewish only state, how can it be the nation of the Palestinian people as well?

Didn't you said that they have Israeli Palestinian?