The European Competitions Thread

[Vesper 30,169]

1 minute ago, BlueLyon said:

1 ) PL got completely schooled this season in Europe.

2.) That is, the very best teams of PL.

3.) On technical, tactical level way below other leagues.

4.) There are however lower clubs in PL too.

5.) The players from those smaller clubs cost about 2 times more than players from leagues that schooled top PL clubs.

6.) Im convinced we should splash extra cash on them.

7.) Get Chilwell, Rice, Dunk, Foster, xyz for 300m and maybe Drinkwater will finaly have buddies in the clubs.

----

Seriously, Chilwell and Rice arent even that awful, but when will the teams learn to simply just refuse paying that much money. Then clubs that demand these ridiculous prices will either lower their demands or have unhappy player around and get relegated to championship. Boohoo.

Rice I do rate, he is quite technical, especially for a DMF/CB

the only DMF's on the planet I would prefer over him (or one, Camavinga, to pair with him is a superb double pivot with Rice as the back and Camavinga as the roamer, or also Partey there as well) are

most of these are impossible to buy as well (only Thomas and Camavinga are actually available to us)

Joshua Kimmich    
Rodri  
Casemiro   
Fabinho

Sandro Tonali   (I would do a back-flip if we got him but zero chance he leaves Italy atm)

then the ones who need further explanations

Thomas (I rate Rice over him as the sole DMF over the long haul (he turns 28yo in June, so is not a player that we will get much resale value out of if he is given 2 years and doesnt work out well), but they would be a monster double pivot I think)    
Eduardo Camavinga  (and he is still SO young, only 17yo, so deffo cannot be the sole DMF option, he needs to paired with a bone crunching deep DMF like Rice or Denis Zakaria) <<<< by far the highest upside on any DMF who is actually available
 

then the ones who I rate but not over Rice

Denis Zakaria (although he and Rice as a pair would be too similar for me, so he would be a great option if we shifted Rice to CB)

I am off the boil on Wilfred Ndidi, the more I have closely watched him, the more holes I see in his game, but that said he would be an improvement over what we have (we have no true traditional DMF¨'s on the team)

Leander Dendoncker I do rate as a trad DMF, but deffo prefer Rice, Ruben Neves is also here as well (and on the same team, but he is very undisciplined far too often atm)

and finally the hugely talented but complete dice roll that is Boubakary Soumaré

[bluephoenix 1,131]

12 hours ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Sorry but this is straw clutching we were totally outplayed by Bayern in both legs and the scoreline in the second leg could have been a lot more if Bayern had moved up a gear. I can't say pride is what I had after losing to Bayern and Arsenal and how anyone can make excuses for Kepa is beyond me he's a long streak of paralysed piss who's more afraid of crosses than Dracula. I can never understand the relevance of the what if posts what Sterling and Edison did for Man City has nothing to do with Chelsea.

So when you say scoreline could have been lot more if Bayern moved up a gear but you can't take it when some one else posts if posts. So I can only make two things out of this post either you want to play devils advocate or that you are just a hypocrite.

Nobody is asking you to take pride in Arsenal or Bayern defeat but you have to realize the quality level. I am proud of the team we would have been in level terms had VAR not dismissed CHO goal. Could have changed the dynamic of the game. Not sure it would have changed the result that Bayern going through to QF but a draw or a slimmer margin of defeat would have been a consolation. Arsenal game we were unfortunate with injuries. And besides it is hard to satisfy everyone! I can point to people who didn't take pride in many of victories during our title wining season either so its all subjective.

The problem with our fans is their only option to any bad result or string of them is to throw money and fix it(rather duck patch it). There is something called training and improvement. We spent a lot of money on him, the wise option would be to get him to the level we want him to. If he proves to be another Batshuayi then it is different(which I don't believe he is). We have other areas we need to fix too. It isn't wise just spend all our budget on another marquee goal keeper going by the headlines I read online. If our defense doesn't get a face lift or we can't fix/improve that then I don't think any big name goalkeeper would be able to stop the goals from going in.

People in forum keep comparing to City/Liverpool right when you can laud them on their success and speak poorly about chelsea players and its manager then why is it suddenly irrelevant when you don't want it is otherwise? The point of the what if posts is to drive sense into people, that mistakes happen. And to encourage people to think more rationally than to just dismiss a player when he doesn't score a goal or does poorly infront of goal or misplaced pass..etc.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

45 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Rice I do rate, he is quite technical, especially for a DMF/CB

the only DMF's on the planet I would prefer over him (or one, Camavinga, to pair with him is a superb double pivot with Rice as the back and Camavinga as the roamer, or also Partey there as well) are

most of these are impossible to buy as well (only Thomas and Camavinga are actually available to us)

Joshua Kimmich    
Rodri  
Casemiro   
Fabinho

Sandro Tonali   (I would do a back-flip if we got him but zero chance he leaves Italy atm)

then the ones who need further explanations

Thomas (I rate Rice over him as the sole DMF over the long haul (he turns 28yo in June, so is not a player that we will get much resale value out of if he is given 2 years and doesnt work out well), but they would be a monster double pivot I think)    
Eduardo Camavinga  (and he is still SO young, only 17yo, so deffo cannot be the sole DMF option, he needs to paired with a bone crunching deep DMF like Rice or Denis Zakaria) <<<< by far the highest upside on any DMF who is actually available
 

then the ones who I rate but not over Rice

Denis Zakaria (although he and Rice as a pair would be too similar for me, so he would be a great option if we shifted Rice to CB)

I am off the boil on Wilfred Ndidi, the more I have closely watched him, the more holes I see in his game, but that said he would be an improvement over what we have (we have no true traditional DMF¨'s on the team)

Leander Dendoncker I do rate as a trad DMF, but deffo prefer Rice, Ruben Neves is also here as well (and on the same team, but he is very undisciplined far too often atm)

and finally the hugely talented but complete dice roll that is Boubakary Soumaré

What about Bruno G? He is gonna be maybe the best of them all that are still available 

[bluephoenix 1,131]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

 but when will the teams learn to simply just refuse paying that much money. Then clubs that demand these ridiculous prices will either lower their demands or have unhappy player around and get relegated to championship. Boohoo.

When we have club like ours and fans like ours who just dismiss players and want to throw money for quick fix solutions which they don't realize won't work in long term. All clubs sacrificing long term for short term gains. It is sad to see that people don't take into account the time it took for Livrepool to come to this level. All they see is what players we can buy so we become like that which they don't realize is not how that would come to be.

 

[Vesper 30,169]

8 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

What about Bruno G? He is gonna be maybe the best of them all that are still available 

he for me is a hybrid CMF/DMF

and yes, I know Camavinga has only played in Ligue 1 as well, but I do not rate Guimarães at his level

I would not be upset if we bought him, but he is (again like Camavinga) not exactly a trad DMF

I would rather him than Ndidi I think, deffo over Dendoncker, deffo over Soumaré (who has poor defensive stats)

so yes, he can go on the list, but not over Rice

he was listed as a CMF, on the list, which is why I forgot him

[BlueLyon 9,359]

7 minutes ago, Vesper said:

he for me is a hybrid CMF/DMF

and yes, I know Camavinga has only played in Ligue 1 as well, but I do not rate Guimarães at his level

I would not be upset if we bought him, but he is (again like Camavinga) not exactly a trad DMF

I would rather him than Ndidi I think, deffo over Dendoncker, deffo over Soumaré (who has poor defensive stats)

so yes, he can go on the list, but not over Rice

he was listed as a CMF, on the list, which is why I forgot him

With some players the effect of overrated english players is slowly getting against them. 

Rice indeed is nice talent, but many will dismiss it because he must be just another overrated englishman. 

However at the end, he is still a mid-lowtable club player with no experience. If that was in france, he would go for 20m to Lyon (lets say Leicester in PL), improve, perform in europe and then move to a top club.

However with him being in PL, he is suddenly rated at 60m+ and headed only to a top club.

Sadly thats not how a young player should progress and thats why many english players ultimately flop. The system is complete crap here. 

Richarlison is a great example of how 90% of talents usualy move in other leagues. Weird that such move was done in PL. He went from Watford to Everton and eventualy will go to a top team. Or Sancho, althrough to another league, but still to a good club thats not above his level; he is now getting steady progress. Thats how most talents in PL should be going. But no, lets inflate and overrate everything. Zaha being great example. Not so much better than Rich, but Crystal wanted 60m for him lol. Literaly all thats wrong with PL.

Yes Camavinga is linked to Real too, but hey that happens once every blue moon. In PL everyone thinks they have the next 5 Ronaldos and Maldinis in their squad every season.

[Vesper 30,169]

6 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

With some players the effect of overrated english players is slowly getting against them. 

Rice indeed is nice talent, but many will dismiss it because he must be just another overrated englishman. 

However at the end, he is still a mid-lowtable club player with no experience. If that was in france, he would go for 20m to Lyon (lets say Leicester in PL), improve, perform in europe and then move to a top club.

However with him being in PL, he is suddenly rated at 60m+ and headed only to a top club.

Sadly thats not how a young player should progress and thats why many english players ultimately flop. The system is complete crap here. 

Richarlison is a great example of how 90% of talents usualy move in other leagues. Weird that such move was done in PL. He went from Watford to Everton and eventualy will go to a top team. Or Sancho, althrough to another league, but still to a good club thats not above his level; he is now getting steady progress. Thats how most talents in PL should be going. But no, lets inflate and overrate everything. Zaha being great example. Not so much better than Rich, but Crystal wanted 60m for him lol. Literaly all thats wrong with PL.

Yes Camavinga is linked to Real too, but hey that happens once every blue moon. In PL everyone thinks they have the next 5 Ronaldos and Maldinis in their squad every season.

Palace wanted £80m for Zaha, lolol

what is up with that £80m figure?

Zaha

Frankenstein Maguire

Chilwell

Rice

smdh

[BlueLyon 9,359]

3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Palace wanted £80m for Zaha, lolol

what is up with that £80m figure?

Zaha

Frankenstein Maguire

Chilwell

Rice

smdh

Ahh 80m. Thats even worse.

How much did Bournemouth want for Fraser that was too much for all suitors?

[Vesper 30,169]

5 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Ahh 80m. Thats even worse.

How much did Bournemouth want for Fraser that was too much for all suitors?

£30m in summer 2019 with one year left on his contract

Aberdeen was owed around 20 per cent of the transfer fee after insisting upon a sell-on fee when they sold him in 2013

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841195-ryan-fraser-doubts-anyone-will-be-paying-30-million-fee-amid-arsenal-rumours

https://arsenaltruefans.com/2019/05/bournemouth-set-asking-price-for-arsenal-target-ryan-fraser

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/arsenal-transfer-news-ryan-fraser-bid-manchester-united-interest-liverpool-bournemouth-a8927176.html

https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/23/arsenal-submit-first-bid-bournemouth-winger-ryan-fraser-europa-league-final-9668058/

[BlueLyon 9,359]

6 minutes ago, Vesper said:

£30m in summer 2019 with one year left on his contract

Aberdeen was owed around 20 per cent of the transfer fee after insisting upon a sell-on fee when they sold him in 2013

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841195-ryan-fraser-doubts-anyone-will-be-paying-30-million-fee-amid-arsenal-rumours

https://arsenaltruefans.com/2019/05/bournemouth-set-asking-price-for-arsenal-target-ryan-fraser

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/arsenal-transfer-news-ryan-fraser-bid-manchester-united-interest-liverpool-bournemouth-a8927176.html

https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/23/arsenal-submit-first-bid-bournemouth-winger-ryan-fraser-europa-league-final-9668058/

Well thats not too awful given he had a realy strong season.

[Rapkun 668]

43 minutes ago, Vesper said:

he for me is a hybrid CMF/DMF

and yes, I know Camavinga has only played in Ligue 1 as well, but I do not rate Guimarães at his level

I would not be upset if we bought him, but he is (again like Camavinga) not exactly a trad DMF

I would rather him than Ndidi I think, deffo over Dendoncker, deffo over Soumaré (who has poor defensive stats)

so yes, he can go on the list, but not over Rice

he was listed as a CMF, on the list, which is why I forgot him

Ndidi is not very comfortable on the ball especially when pressed. Teams often target him. Camavinga on the other hand can dribble his way out of trouble. Great prospect, definitely Real bound.

Also I'm a bit late but I don't think Pogba is overrated at all. Bruno Fernandes though I can't stand. United fans think he's ballon d'or material because he can dive and score penalties. Some of them genuinely believe he's better or more important than Pogba.

[Vesper 30,169]

15 minutes ago, Rapkun said:

Ndidi is not very comfortable on the ball especially when pressed. Teams often target him. Camavinga on the other hand can dribble his way out of trouble. Great prospect, definitely Real bound.

Also I'm a bit late but I don't think Pogba is overrated at all. Bruno Fernandes though I can't stand. United fans think he's ballon d'or material because he can dive and score penalties. Some of them genuinely believe he's better or more important than Pogba.

Pogba was a fool to leave Juve for Manure

they could have won the CL with him there, I am absolutely convinced of that

I know that is not a popular opinion, but he is such a unique talent when he is motivated

he also would have been better off at RM or Barca

[BlueLyon 9,359]

36 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Pogba was a fool to leave Juve for Manure

they could have won the CL with him there, I am absolutely convinced of that

I know that is not a popular opinion, but he is such a unique talent when he is motivated

he also would have been better off at RM or Barca

juve have turned into a joke club. Sold Cancelo. Replaced Vidal, Pogba and Pirlo with that toss of Khedira, Ramsey, Matuidi, Rabiot. The only decent was Pjanic. Buying Higuain. Benching Dybala.

Biggest mistake however was buying aging CR. He is great player, but you aint winning the CL with Matuidi, Pjanic, Rabiot, Bentancur, Khedira, Ramsey midfield man. Not to mention Danilo.

And then they spend 70m on CB where they already had Chielini and Bonucci...

They went downhill since Marotta left. And inter on other side is rising. 

Speaks volumes what means to have a capable sporting director.

Back in the day, Kenyon was the most important part of that Chelsea era. Not Roman, not Mou, not Terry, Lamps and Didi. It was Kenyon. He connected all of it together.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

15 hours ago, bluephoenix said:

People in forum keep comparing to City/Liverpool right when you can laud them on their success and speak poorly about chelsea players and its manager then why is it suddenly irrelevant when you don't want it is otherwise?

I'm not quite sure what you mean but what I think is pointless and it happened with Kepa and De Gea people were saying oh well De Gea was shit when he first came to United as if that's comparable to Kepa being shit. The warped thinking was because they were both Spanish it excused Kepa's bad form and the bottom line that's been proved is they are both fucking useless.  Comparing the rights and wrongs of other clubs is pointless you concentrate on your own club's woes and shortcomings 

Pep spent this Klopp spent that who cares City can spend billions as far as I'm concerned they will always be a two bob club who 20 years ago were playing in the same league as Stockport.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

'' Ole what do you think of Sevilla's keeper Bono and losing another semi-final'' ?. Ole '' I still haven't found what I'm looking for'' 

[Atomiswave 6,117]

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

While the sentiment is true, would Duncan Castles have said the same thing had it been Mourinho instead?  

[Special Juan 28,141]

Inter v Shakhtar has the potential to be a bit good tonight.

[Atomiswave 6,117]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

While the sentiment is true, would Duncan Castles have said the same thing had it been Mourinho instead?  

Most likely not...his view is correct but such a bellend.....enjoy another one of united's diving boys, I think its fair to say they have been instructed to dive as much as possible.

 

[Jase 43,479]

Setien has been sacked by Barcelona. Officially confirmed. Election will be next March.