The European Leagues & Competitions Thread V2

[Special Juan 27,424]

Be fucking great if Bayern go out too.

[ulvhedin 507]

Ball Possession: 39% Porto and 61% BMunich
Passes attempted and completed: 257 and 198 for Porto; 581 and 514 for Bayern

Wow, nice stats

[Oscar 441]

2 really dumb yellows by the porto fullbacks...

Danilo is better than Carvalj...

[BlueLyon 9,359]

No Sandro and Danilo will be giant blow for porto. Do they even have decent backup fullbacks?

[The Chels 2,502]

The great example is Manchester City. Somewhere in this site I read at least one post contrasting the way we played at City this season with our league performance there in 13/14. That post was from a Jose critic and talked about how TSO had set up brilliantly last season but how he had gone away from that this term. Not so. Well not in my opinion anyway. The set up was exactly the same but, whereas last season the players executed well, this time around, with the exception of the absolutely magnificent goal we scored, they played like park footballers. As a result barely a pass completed. Even so the genius of the tactical lay out still garnered a point and very nearly three.

The tactics were definitely not the same.

The City away game last year was all about pressing, intensity, forcing mistakes and creating attacks high up the pitch. Even with a very limiting defence we dominated, which makes me wonder how well we could execute those tactics with an individually stronger, more proactive back line. This season the game was about sitting deep, being passive and waiting for a mistake. We got dominated.

If you still think otherwise then I suggest you re-watch the games and look at the attitude of the players when out of possession because there is a very noticeable difference.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

The tactics were definitely not the same.

The City away game last year was all about pressing, intensity, forcing mistakes and creating attacks high up the pitch. Even with a very limiting defence we dominated, which makes me wonder how well we could execute those tactics with an individually stronger, more proactive back line. This season the game was about sitting deep, being passive and waiting for a mistake. We got dominated.

If you still think otherwise then I suggest you re-watch the games and look at the attitude of the players when out of possession because there is a very noticeable difference.

I won't promise to review the games, I watch far too much football as it is.

2013/14: -

• City enjoyed nearly twice as much possession as we did.
• City had more shots than we did.
• City delivered 3.5 times as many crosses into our goal area as we put into theirs.
• City won twice as many corners as we did.
• We were forced into twice as many clearances as they were.

These stats, taken from the Premier League site*, suggest that we did not dominate. Speaking from memory, I would rather say that we controlled the game, as Jose likes to put it. That is we sit, maintaining shape at all times and our throw ins go forward never sideways to prevent quick breaks with men in front of the ball and out of position. Because we executed that plan so well in 13/14 we regularly broke with space to play into and threatened to score more than the one goal that was registered.

Fast forward to 14/15 and Andre Schurrle scored a beauty which will almost certainly get my vote for goal of the season but, sadly, that was pretty much the only passing movement we were able to put together on the day. You don't pass and your breaks never get started or worse, you get broken against.

I remain firmly of the opinion that execution was the only difference between the two games. In 13/14 we played well, we passed to each other, Hazard & Matic were great; none of that was true this season.

*Possession stats are from BBC, 65-35 in City's favour.

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

Munich were without

Benatia

Bastian

Javi

Robben

Ribery

Alaba

Not just robbery. Next game porto are going to have both Brazilians suspended.

All they need is a 2 0

IMO FAbregas>Schweinsteiger

Our team is young, theirs is just past their peak. I wonder how they even get half their first XI injured in that uncompetitive and non-physicla league.

The return leg is in 5 days so I doubt everyone from that list will be fully fit. Porto have a chance. This Bayern team is not a prime Barcelona or Jupp's dynamic force it is just a ponderous Pep side with a dozen great names. If those are out, they will crumble under pressure. They are not used to that kind of pressing, the lack of competition has made them arrogant once again. Maybe it won't suffice for Porto as Bayern won't make these kinds of mistakes again, but Atletico are even better at pressing whilst MSN will rip anyone apart.

[The Chels 2,502]

City enjoyed nearly twice as much possession as we did.

Possession is not a great indicator of dominance, especially in the big games. Here's 2 recent examples involving Real Madrid:

• Bayern Munich 0-4 Real Madrid (possession 69% to 31%)
• Atletico Madrid 4-0 Real Madrid (possession 45% to 55%)

City had more shots than we did.

Plenty of pot shots. We had twice as many on target as they did last year (3 to 6) and hit the crossbar 3 times.

City delivered 3.5 times as many crosses into our goal area as we put into theirs. City won twice as many corners as we did. We were forced into twice as many clearances as they were.

These are all closely linked. City delivered more crosses into the box, which led to more clearances and more corners. That's no surprise considering we defend narrow and City rely on their widemen. How many clear-cut chances did they actually create last season though? Maybe 2? We created far more but this year it was undoubtedly the opposite.

I remain firmly of the opinion that execution was the only difference between the two games. In 13/14 we played well, we passed to each other, Hazard & Matic were great; none of that was true this season.

Jose's Madrid played against Barcelona twice in the week of 20-27 April 2011. That was the Copa del Rey final (pressing game, Madrid won) and CL SF first leg at the Bernabeu (passive defending, bus parked, Madrid lost). I'm not saying that the tactics was the sole reason for the difference in the outcome of the two games given Pepe's red card (although it certainly played a part IMO) but out of interest would you say the set-up in those two games was the same? The difference in intensity off the ball in those matches is comparable to that in the two City games.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

Possession is not a great indicator of dominance, especially in the big games. Here's 2 recent examples involving Real Madrid:

• Bayern Munich 0-4 Real Madrid (possession 69% to 31%)
• Atletico Madrid 4-0 Real Madrid (possession 45% to 55%)

Plenty of pot shots. We had twice as many on target as they did last year (3 to 6) and hit the crossbar 3 times.

These are all closely linked. City delivered more crosses into the box, which led to more clearances and more corners. That's no surprise considering we defend narrow and City rely on their widemen. How many clear-cut chances did they actually create last season though? Maybe 2? We created far more but this year it was undoubtedly the opposite.

Jose's Madrid played against Barcelona twice in the week of 20-27 April 2011. That was the Copa del Rey final (pressing game, Madrid won) and CL SF first-leg at the Bernabeu (passive defending, bus parked, Madrid lost). I'm not saying that the tactics was the sole reason for the difference in the outcome of the two games given Pepe's red card (although it certainly played a part IMO) but out of interest would you say the set-up in those two games was the same? The difference in intensity off-the-ball in those matches is comparable to that in the two City games.

Like many, if not most, people I'm not a big believer in stats but I think possession stats tend to be what people have in mind when they talk about being dominant. I do prefer Jose's way of talking about control but it's hard to argue that those stats say anything other than that we set up to counter attack City in 13/14, just as we did in 14/15. All that this season's game proved is that if you can't pass, not a lot else matters.

When it comes to passing we have too many weak links. In fact I don't believe Jose can pick any side without having to include a number of players for whom passing is not a strength. I'm watching for squad changes before I'll start expecting better football.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Like many, if not most, people I'm not a big believer in stats but I think possession stats tend to be what people have in mind when they talk about being dominant. I do prefer Jose's way of talking about control but it's hard to argue that those stats say anything other than that we set up to counter attack City in 13/14, just as we did in 14/15. All that this season's game proved is that if you can't pass, not a lot else matters.

When it comes to passing we have too many weak links. In fact I don't believe Jose can pick any side without having to include a number of players for whom passing is not a strength. I'm watching for squad changes before I'll start expecting better football.

We definitely set up to counter last year and were far more daring going forward, but for me the major difference to this season's performance was that we set up way too conservatively. We never intended to break forward with players as soon as we did recover the ball, whereas last year we counter attack intuitively with several players. There was definitely a difference in how conservative we were.

It's clear to me that it's due to Jose not fully trusting certain players in big games though, and because we lost the protection (+ flair) Luiz gave us in big games in midfield, we (or Jose) were naturally looking a lot more reluctant to break with numbers.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

We definitely set up to counter last year and were far more daring going forward, but for me the major difference to this season's performance was that we set up way too conservatively. We never intended to break forward with players as sonar we did recover the ball, whereas last year we counter attack intuitively with several players. There was definitely a difference in how conservative we were.

It's clear to me that it's due to Jose not fully trusting certain players in big games though, and because we lost the protection (+ flair) Luiz gave us in big games in midfield, we (or Jose) were naturally looking a lot more reluctant to break with numbers.

And I don't trust them either. Indeed we have more than a few I don't trust even in small games. On the main conversation I can only say that you and I disagree and probably always will.

[hamad138 190]

Gotze is injuryed now too. Add him to the list

[kobematabryant 400]

Napoli winning 2-0 and Zenit winning 1-0. Napoli vs Zenit final would be juicy. AVB vs Rafa, who wouldn't like that??

[Special Juan 27,424]

Wolfsburg getting fucked right over here. First was hand ball but the second goal was lovely.

[dUMB 189]

Napoli winning 2-0 and Zenit winning 1-0. Napoli vs Zenit final would be juicy. AVB vs Rafa, who wouldn't like that??

It's not over yet, Wolfsburg is a strong team, Fiorentina also.

[kobematabryant 400]

It's not over yet, Wolfsburg is a strong team, Fiorentina also.

2-0 down at home is pretty much game over.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Schurrle is still struggling to get back to his best since his return to Germany. Not great so far.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

And as I type that, he smashes a shot against the post in anger.