Kevin de Bruyne

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

People tend to talk up 'the defensive duties' as if every other player who isn't a defensive midfielder can't make a tackle or positiin themselves to make it awkward for the opposition. Kevin has the passing game to become a center mid and if you compare him to the current Frank Lampard then let's face it, his legs are younger and has more energy witch is needed in that role. Lampard isn't a good tackler and isn't effective in the pivot at all. We haven't seen Kev there yet so how do we know he woudln't flourish there??

You are falling into the trap where that groups of players with vastly differing skills into one group because they are deemed "good" or "bad' by people. "Not good defensively" is an enormous group where there is a massive scope of different defensive quality. Lampard is not good defensively but he's also not horrible. Lampard's problem is that he's lost his pace so he's a little late with tackles and can't catch up to people if they get by him. He defends willingly, intercepts quite a few balls, wins some headers, and is generally not nearly as bad as you and other people portray him on here. He's not a good defensive player, he's a poor defensive player, but he's not useless either..De Bruyne doesn't do anything well defensively. He can't tackle at all, he doesn't read the play well, he doesn't track back well, he is useless in the air, he lets players get by him constantly, etc..De Bruyne is not a bad defensive players, he was probably one of the worst defensive players playing at a high level in Europe last season. Already this season, he's been dribbled by the opposition more often than he's made a tackle or intercepted a ball combined. This year, Lampard has a 58% success rate on tackles overall (including fouls). De Bruyne's last season was 25% which is beyond atrocious. (43% this year which is the same defensive efficiency as Torres) He can definitely improve defensively, but he has many steps to take before being able to play in the centre of a 4-2-3-1 against any quality team. Hell, he has steps he has to take before being able to play at attacking midfield for Chelsea. Getting a paper cut and being shot in the face are both bad things but they are not even close to being the equal.

@Barbara the problem is that there is absolutely no reason to believe that De Bruyne will improve our transition. His passing rate last year was low and this year it's low again.This whole discussion is some weird fantasy based on a player who hasn't shown he exists yet. Let him work his way into showing that he's good enough to play for Chelsea at all before we start discussing how we start trying to force him into an ill-suited role on the team. Anyway, it's the same old. Complex team problems get reduces down to one or two veteran players who people want replaced with a new toy.

[LukakutoStamford 779]

His passing percentage is low because he's attempting quite a bit of long passes and through passes. I'm not suggesting he's the world's most accurate passer but I am suggesting that his numbers are low because he's trying to create. Can't compare passing percentages to guys who never take any risks and pass the ball short distances or backwards.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

If the reference is Lampard, then I see where people are coming from and maybe it's worth a shot in one of the upcoming more manageable games in EPL.

If the reference are players who are great in the position, I feel like Kevin won't do it unless he works a lot in his defensive skills. He's similar to what Hazard used to be defensively wise and while Hazard improved it considerably, it's basically more effort than result. He still looks clueless a lot while doing it, but at least he's pressing and trying to tackle, which is enough for an AM, but not even close for a CM.

So we keep saying the pivot is one of our problems, but then we want to move a player there that will continue to offer one of the problems we currently have? Ramires is an excellent tackler imo, his defensive service is good, but Lampard is terrible - for what the position demands if we want to have balance. So while with a guy like KDB we'll probably improve our transition, close the gap between defense-midfield and midfield-attack, at the same time we're perpetuating the large amount of space we offer to our opponents when they have the ball because Lampard is far from impressive closing gaps in defense phases and recovering possession.

I still believe the reason why we failed so badly the last couple of years in EPL has more to do with the amount of goals we conceded than the amount of goals we didn't score. Fixing the pivot is mandatory to remedy that - reason why I don't think Kev would be effective there, but I'm not totally opposed to the idea as we haven't seen him there yet (in EPL). Maybe he'd surprise me, but I don't think he's the answer to our pivot issue and I don't think we have to accommodate him in the team just so he plays. He might be worse than Lamps defending and instead of improving our pivot, he might worsen it overall, although of course, he'll improve transition.

I agree with much you say, but not this part. We've never really been a team that concede alot of goals, and our issues lately havent really been of a defensive character. Sometimes yes, but over time no.

2009/2010 only united conceded less goals than us

2010/2011 we conceded only 33 goals which was the lowest in PL (city 33, united 37)

2011/2012 we were shit this season and ended up in the 6th place, having 5-6 teams conceding less goals than us.

2012/2013 we were the 2nd team to concede the least ammount of goals, after city

2013/2014 so far only soton and tottenham have condeded less goals than us

So the only season of late that sticks out is during the 2010/2011 campaign, We were basically shit. Funny though is that we denied Tottenham a chance of playing CL and later won it.

My point is that I am absolutley convinced that our issue lately has been of an attacking nature. Remember when we didnt have any wingers? Remember when Ramires always played as RW? Remember when we had Drogba/Torres? Drogba who mostly showed up durig the big games and Torres constantly flopping? Then things started to change with the players we bought.

But still at times we really struggle to score goals. This campagn:

0 goals against Everton

0 goals against United

0 goals against Newcastle

Goals can always be conceded,even at the most bizarre times and ways. For instance during a corner, freekick or player- or goalkeeper mistakes (that usually arent in direct cause of poor defensive play). However if you just score more goals than you condede, you'll be fine. And it is in this area we've had most issues.

For instance last season:

0 goals against QPR

2-1 loss against West Brom

0 goals against City

0 goals against Fulham

0-1 loss against QPR

Dont get me wrong, we're not defensively 100% stable. But I simply feel that our issue is that we often have really poor finishing and that we at too many times dont take good enough advantage of certain situations when we could score.

[ParNolio7 285]

@TorontoChelsea,

Ouch! I'm afraid you are suffering from a bad case of scoreboard journalism ! Get it cured while you can ...

[ParNolio7 285]

@YouNameIt,

All true.

I still believe though that Torres is potentially one of the most naturally gifted strikers in the world. He was brilliant playing for Atletico Madrid, he was fantastic playing for Liverpool and he's still very solid playing for Spain.

So after what is it 3 seasons now, I think we have to face that this 4-2-3-1 system is simply not working for Torres.

Personally I think he would've partnered up brilliantly with Lukaku. Torres can hold the ball, play the combination. Lukaku can make a run forward, take out defenders, score goals, be dangerous for 90 minutes.

There's also far too few crosses coming in. Basically I think a 4-4-2 with proper wingers would suit Torres a lot better. Chelsea definitely has the players to make that happen:

Torres - Lukaku

Hazard/Schürrle - Ramires - Mata/Oscar - Willian/KDB

[Tomo 21,733]

@ParNolio7,

The problem with a strike partnership these days is it is almost impossible to make it work without getting completely overrun in midfield, Liverpool had to go 3-5-2 to accommodate Suarez and Sturridge and even then they got outplayed by Arsenal.

[ParNolio7 285]

@Tomo,

4-4-2 shouldn't necessarily mean being outrun in midfield. If you come up against the modern 3 man midfield, one of your wingers can pinch in when not in posession. When in posession, the wingers can spread wide again and you're bound to hurt the opponent. Providing of course you have wingers who know how to defend as well.

Anyway, KDB on the bench tonight. Hope he gets half an hour or so to prove his worth. I'm sure he'll do great.

Hazard left out of the selection, ah well, just blame everything on the Belgians! ;-)

[ParNolio7 285]

Does anyone have a proper live stream link for me??

[Stingray 9,441]

Does anyone have a proper live stream link for me??

Its on 133 telenet :-) rtl sport!

[ParNolio7 285]

Its on 133 telenet :-) rtl sport!

Brillant!! I was watching sh*te arsenal on zdf and had Chelsea on a dodgy live stream ... adthe not working tonight great switching to rtl then

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

Kevin got 15 minutes tonight, the lad still looks nervous to me,

[ParNolio7 285]

Solid 10 mins by KDB.

Too bad Lampard came on just a few minutes later to push KDB to left wing. Had a promising start in the center.

[zolayes 14,489]

HE did well in the time he was on

[ParNolio7 285]

Kevin got 15 minutes tonight, the lad still looks nervous to me,

Oh, for crying out loud, give him a break. The kid did well. Of course he's nervous, just shows you he wants to do well for CFC. Wants to play a role.

Again, a shame Lampard's entrance meant exile to the left for KDB.

[bluesman2610 1,347]

didn't bad at all considering the amount of time he got.. I feel should be given another shot maybe to even play with in behind the striker vs west brom with Willian and Hazard on the flanks I think he should be given another shot

[Mouri_Matic 560]

If he plays no part tomorrow then there is not much hope left for him. This is probably gonna be our easiest game until Crystal Palace/Sunderland game from now till Feb.

[The Mak 4,459]

Transfer news: Anderlecht in line to land Kevin de Bruyne on loan from Chelsea

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11668/9017142/transfer-news-anderlecht-in-line-to-land-kevin-de-bruyne-on-loan-from-chelsea

Surprised this hasn't been put up already.

Anyway, I'd hate to see him go back on loan to the Belgian League. I'd hope for the Bundesliga at least.

[zolayes 14,489]

If he plays no part tomorrow then there is not much hope left for him. This is probably gonna be our easiest game until Crystal Palace/Sunderland game from now till Feb.

with hindsight