Our best players are our problems

[BLionheart 516]

A question must have entered your mind this season , are we really that bad ?! why does our defense look like shit while we have a supposedly outstanding back four ?! Our midfield looks clueless but Ramires and Romeu are supposedly two very good players while Miereles and Lamps ain't that bad that they destroy the goods or Romeu and Ramires , and what about our magnificent front three of Mata , Sturridge and Torres/Drogba .

According to the posts i read most of you seem to agree that we have one player in each line that is a liability , Bosingwa in defence , Miereles/Lamps in midfield , and Drogba/Torres in the front line, also most of the blame for any bad result falls on them .

But looking at other teams you are allowed to have three average players in your team , as long as they are not as bad as kalou then you should be fine if the rest of the team is good as claimed to be.

This is gonna be a long read as i need to analyze many things and aspects of our gameplay and our players , Here are some points that should be cleared :

• If Mata and Sturridge are as good as claimed to be then we should be scoring much more goals and have much more creativity , Sturridge is still very raw and has a lot to learn before starting for a team that is aiming for the EPL and European glory . While mata on the other hand is an excellent player but his best position is real enigma as he is clearly not a winger nor his defensive abilities and weak physique will suit a midfielder in the EPL , One other thing i would like to add on Mata is that while he is a great player but he is not brilliant , he is a very good team player but not the one that should be the star of your team because that one should be someone in the statue of messi , ronaldo , rooney , aguero , silva , xavi , iniesta , etc.. Mata is just below them in ranking IMO.
  

• A lot of our fans have been glorifying the efforts of Ramires and Romeu if that is deserved then we should have a much better outcome in terms of ball distribution , creativity , passing from our midfield . IMO Ramires is very useful player but for teams who are looking to play on the counter and defend deep , his technical ability is abysmal and his passing game is worse than kalou , i know a lot of the fans love him but he is not the right man for the job .Romeu on the other hand is actually a very good holding midfielder who I rate highly but there is still much room for improvement so again a decent player but not world-class player.
  

• Our defense while regarded by many as our main problem is actually our best line , When Iva-Luiz-Terry-Cole are all playing the back four is actually very good and the goals conceded is mainly because of the midfielders and forwards failure to keep possession or score applying more pressure on us , i am not worried about that line because i am 100% sure that once/if our midfield started clicking with our forwards and bosingwa got kicked out of the team then this IMO should be the best back four in the league. I know terry and cole are not the same players anymore but still two of the best in their positions and David Luiz is really fantastic fuck all the media crap , but he is a superb player who is not helped by the current circumstances.
  

So mainly we have two big problems :

1. We have no world-class players except may be Luiz (yes, I rate him that high) and that is why we are not a world-class team we are turning into a liverpool .
   
2. If we divided the team into a defensive group of five (Terry-Luiz-Iva-Cole-Romeu) and a front five of (Miereles-Ramires-Mata-Sturridge-Torres) It will highlight how bad our offense is !! as apart from Mata i don't think any of the other four should be there starting for CFC dayin day out.
   

Our best players this season in the eyes of many are Mata , Sturridge , Ramires . That is for me some very bad news because when Ramires and Sturridge are the best players of the team then we really lack the desired quality , as both of them has failed to find consistency in form and during matches as they go through phases in and out of the game , both more suited to counter attacking football not our game-style , both lacks a lot of technical abilities and skills to play for us ... and I can name at least 10 players who are better than each in his position.

Currently the team has too much average and below average players with no superb ones to hold the team right on their shoulders .

IF CFC IS EVER TO GET BACK TO IT'S GLORY DAYS THEN STURRIDGE AND RAMIRES SHOULD BE THE WORST PLAYERS IN OUR STARTING ELEVEN NOT THE BEST AND JUAN MATA SHOULDN'T BE THE STAR OF THE TEAM.

I hope i have managed to get my thoughts clear as this reflects how much trouble we are in , this theory of evolution rather than revolution is never gonna work with the current squad .

[francozola 2,040]

Sturridge has so far not had a single game where he's played consistently for the team. He's been regarded so highly because of the goals he's scored and fair enough, he has scored a lot. But his team-play has been atrocious for the most part. He has to work on that. Also he completely disappears when the other teams' left-back marks him half decently.

And I agree about Mata. He is a wonderful, wonderful little player. But his final ball has been shown to be off at times. Especially recently. I don't know if he's tired, or just inconsistent. He is nowhere near as "precise" as some of the great players you have mentioned, including Silva. Valencia fans did "warn" us about this when he was being signed. They said things like while he is tremendously talented, he can be inconsistent, etc.

We need someone in the midfield who is able to provide some creativity because we definitely cannot just rely on Mata. He also has the tendency to disappear in games. Modric would have been the perfect solution. It's such a pity that it did not work out. I really think he would have fit in perfectly.

There are so many areas to be strengthened: right-back, left-back even, one midfielder, one winger and a striker.

Those are just starting player spots hence we need world-class or close to world-class players for those roles. The fringe players have to improve as well. I have lost faith in Torres. He might score another 5-6 goals in the remainder of this season but if I had to place a bet, I'd say he won't be a Chelsea player in August 2012.

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

Love the 2 posts. yeah our back line is really good......when healthy but I feel "deadwood" is our MAIN PROBLEM! look at our bench in kalou Malouda, bosingwa, lamps (srry bro), mikel. Is that a bench that will REALLY push our "starting XI". Come on! Let's say we buy jovetic. Now Studge knows he can be replace by a "hungy" new signing trying to make an impact. Or what about kdb, he would hand kalouda their first class tickets out of the country. Then, comes lamps. Who idk how to deal with, do you just say goodbye send him to mls? Or maybe play 4231 and pit him behind ST? Idc, it's just suggestions but either way he or mierles has to go

And make room for joshy or mata. Then bosingwa..................well we all know his story. So I believe that Chelsea need COMPETITION! players are now "safe" and that's the worst thin that can happen. I remember watching lukaku and mata come on against Norwich earlier in the year and we could all see, or at least I saw, real energy and conviction in the way they played. They wanted to cement a place for themselves in the starting XI, and highlight that yes they were a good buy. This team is missing that and we need to do something this Jan if we're serious about "rebuilding" this squad. Can't do it all in the summer!

[nadavTKL 1,787]

There are so many areas to be strengthened: right-back, left-back even, one midfielder, one winger and a striker.

Those are just starting player spots

Starting left and right back? oh you got to be kidding...

You still wont get anyone, and i mean ANYONE, better than Ashley Cole. Yeah yeah is not as good as he was last seasons but come on... who is better

than him? and which LB can you get in the market that even getting close to his level? in 2012/2013 you will still get the same conclusions btw.

About the RB, no need for that too. First of all, if you can tell me about someone who is far better than Ivan, and he's someone we can buy, that would be

an achievement i think. Second of all, now that we got Cahill we got 4 CB's, when two of them can play the RB role. Ivan do it great, i think that Luiz

can do it even better. You dont need another one, maybe a sub if Bos is out...

And about "one midfielder, one winger and a striker". What midfielder? CAM? because we wont need an CAM if we'll get a winger and a striker.

It all depends on the formation we are going to play and the positions of Mata and Strurridge. Either way, there is no room for 3 new players in our attack.

[francozola 2,040]

Starting left and right back? oh you got to be kidding... You still wont get anyone, and i mean ANYONE, better than Ashley Cole. Yeah yeah is not as good as he was last seasons but come on... who is better than him? and which LB can you get in the market that even getting close to his level? in 2012/2013 you will still get the same conclusions btw. About the RB, no need for that too. First of all, if you can tell me about someone who is far better than Ivan, and he's someone we can buy, that would be an achievement i think. Second of all, now that we got Cahill we got 4 CB's, when two of them can play the RB role. Ivan do it great, i think that Luiz can do it even better. You dont need another one, maybe a sub if Bos is out... And about "one midfielder, one winger and a striker". What midfielder? CAM? because we wont need an CAM if we'll get a winger and a striker. It all depends on the formation we are going to play and the positions of Mata and Strurridge. Either way, there is no room for 3 new players in our attack.

Ashley Cole is 32 years old. Do you want him to be our starting left-back until he is 50?

Right-back maybe you are right. But, a youngster MUST be promoted to Ivanovic's replacement, OR someone else must be bruoght in to be his backup. I cannot take any more of Bosingwa.

We need a midfielder because Meireles and Lampard are not good enough to be starting in the team. You CANNOT just rely on Mata.

Your philosophy is just to stick with what we have because we don't need any more? THat's why we are in this shit-hole right now. Because no one in our board realized that you have to replace players.

And I don't mean buy all of those "world-class" players in this transfer window or even in the coming summer. They should be brought in over the next two seasons.

If we just stay the way you want it to, we'll remain in this shithole forever. Because other teams will improve themselves.

IMO we really need a squad overhaul.

Players that should leave/be replaced: Bosingwa, Ferreira, Cole (not replaced but his performances should be reduced), Meireles (ok as backup), Lampard (backup and if he's not happy he can leave), Essien (unless he does really well for the remainder of this season he should be sold or kept only as backup not a starter), Drogba, Kalou, Malouda, Torres (unless he becomes a superstar, I don't want him here any more it's just too much fucking trouble)

To become the powerhouse that we were in 2005-2008, you need world class players. You can't just sit on having Meireles and co. in your team. It must be done slowly but this process should have started years ago. Instead we are stuck with these shit players. In 2005 we had world-class players in Terry, Carvalho, Gallas, Lampard, Essien, Makelele, Drogba, Robben, etc. They may not be world-class in the way Messi, Ronaldo are. But they were the best in the business at what they were supposed to do.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

You need to come down a bit, and replay for what was wrote to you. Because this post was extremly bizzare.

I really want you to go back to my post and read it again.

A little help: i respond to "There are so many areas to be strengthened: right-back, left-back even, one midfielder, one winger and a striker.

Those are just starting player spots".

It is pretty clear that when we are talking about places to be strengthened we are talking about next season. If youre meaning is more than that, you cannot expect people to guess that. I realy do not get how can you say that my "philosophy is just to stick with what we have" when all i fucking said is that we dont need starting RB and an LB right now, and we need winger/CAM+striker to the first 11, because there are 4 places for (only) attacking minded players. (i mean like in City its Silva, Nasri, Aguaro and Baloteli, in Chelsea it should be Mata, Sturr, striker, winger/CAM. Or someone like Modric which is a creaive CM for the 4th role).

But thats just ridicilous really, i cannot belive i wrote back to this... learn how to read please.

[Joker10 946]

I am quite baffled by this thread. I can see where you are coming from with the Ramires comments. But seriously disagree with you with Sturridge and Mata.

• If Mata and Sturridge are as good as claimed to be then we should be scoring much more goals and have much more creativity , Sturridge is still very raw and has a lot to learn before starting for a team that is aiming for the EPL and European glory . While mata on the other hand is an excellent player but his best position is real enigma as he is clearly not a winger nor his defensive abilities and weak physique will suit a midfielder in the EPL , One other thing i would like to add on Mata is that while he is a great player but he is not brilliant , he is a very good team player but not the one that should be the star of your team because that one should be someone in the statue of messi , ronaldo , rooney , aguero , silva , xavi , iniesta , etc.. Mata is just below them in ranking IMO.
  

I want to start with Sturridge then get to your comments about Mata. I don't know what you are on about but Sturridge would definitely start for any team in the Premier league, including Man City and United. In fact Mancini has stated the following:

"If Sturridge was here today, he'd be in the first team. I've watched him many times and know him well."

He would definitely start over Antonio Valencia and Ashley Young at United.

Sturridge has been playing shitty lately, but remember this trend is pretty recent since Ivanovic got injured. Bosingwa is single handily doing his best to ensure Sturridge is ineffective, he plays much better with Ivanovic.

Mata is not on the same level as Xavi, Iniesta, Ronaldo, and Messi obviously. But no way is Rooney, Aguero, and Silva on the same tier as them either. There is not much of a difference between Silva and Mata, and Mata is doing a lot on the wing to compensate for a very poor midfield.

Aguero had a great month in his debut, but since then he has pretty much had a lot of inconsistent games like Sturridge and Mata. Aguero is a tad overrated.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

So to summarize we basically need better depth in players to create competition and hunger within the team. Agree 100%. We need to get rid of players like Malouda, Kalou, Bosingwa, Lampard (Yes I said Lampard) and replace them with great young players, We need an overhaul in the summer, it's as Simple as that, whether we replace them with players we have bought or players from our youth system it shouldn't matter, the deadwood and Veterans need to go.

I think 2 wingers need to be signed. One on the left which would allow Mata to go into the Middle (and thus we gain a CAM) and another young winger (Willian/KDB/Krasic) to compete with Sturridge, this would give us alot of options, we could use Sturridge as a RW or CF and Mata as a LW or CAM. AT LEAST 2 more attacking players need to be added, and possibly a third (a striker) depending on what we do with Torres and Drogba

[zolayes 14,489]

The trouble is we keep starting with Kalou and Mikel . Well that was what people here always said. Even now the OP can't resist

a dig at Kalou. Francozola is correct an overhaul is needed. I would have called it a rebuilding. THIS isnt the transition season.

The transition PERIOD should start next season. Any silverware we collect in the next 2 years should be looked on as a bonus

not a right.

[cchuka 99]

I think Torres needs to go, or at least not be our main striker. He's a good player but he's probably the unluckiest person in the world and we can't have that rubbing off on us any more. I also think it best for all parties involved if Lampard retires to MLS; I hear the weather in LA is amazing

OUT- Bosingwa, Ferreira, Mikel, Lampard, Kalouda

Replacement options- Hazard, Cavani, Modric, De Bruyne, Hulk, Azpilicueta, Willian, Lucas

I look forward to witnessing a fresher, sharper & more lethal Chelsea XI by summers end.

[manpe 10,855]

I can't agree with the "best players main problem" part, because when I think about best players (not name reputations), I think about the players who have contributed the most... and that can't be a problem. Our problem still is our worst players.

[Blue Armour 4,158]

I have a simple suggestion as to why the goals have dried up recently despite the fact that the defense has shored up in recent weeks:

Ashley Cole and the fact that we lack genuine wingers.

Cole after being played week in week out, has started to run out of batteries midway through the season and the only sort of wing play that we had on the left hand side has stopped. Ashely rarely got forward yesterday, and as a result Mata is forced to work extra hard on the left, and tries to drift around instead.'

If we had genuine wingers , especially on the right, things might have been a lot different. Bring on Hazard, please.

[laura90 556]

Sturridge: when he doesn't score, he often offers nothing. His ball distribution and passing are very poor at best. His team play is from zero to nothing. He cares more to be the star than for the team to play the best . He should be a striker. Only like that we could succeed with him. I can't see him as a successfull winger with his selfishness and desire to stand out.

Ramires: He is quick and can be very pivotal in quick transferring the ball from defence to attack. He is very needed in counter attack and he can score. On the other hand his passing is very poor . He can be very useful midfielder, but as the worst one, surrended with much more creative midfielders and wingers, who can pass and who will make the best out of Ramires' speed and quick ball transferring.

Mata - he is very creative and our most talented player who can pass but not the type that can do it all by himself. He needs help. It is hard to keep creativity at top while other players pass ball back to defenders or left right to the closest player.

Torres - His Chelsea carrer was gone during his first month here. He should have never come here and he realized it early. But thinking it is all his fault and our team and management had nothing to do with it is very narrow minded.

Lampard- - had he played yesterday, we would probably won. I missed him very much. But that is the problem. When he doesn't score, he often offers nothing in midfield. On the contrary he makes it even worse.

Meireles - was much better and much more usefull in Liverpool. He is not creative, his defensive abilities are poor, his passing is poor and he is trying to find his scoring boots too often. Even if he succeed, he will be in " only usefull when scores" group.

Altought it is very popular to say that bad finishing brought us here, poor finishing has his cause. And that is playing without proper winger and without any creative midfielder with average players for so long.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Sturridge: when he doesn't score, he often offers nothing. His ball distribution and passing are very poor at best. His team play is from zero to nothing. He cares more to be the star than for the team to play the best . He should be a striker. Only like that we could succeed with him. I can't see him as a successfull winger with his selfishness and desire to stand out.

Ramires: He is quick and can be very pivotal in quick transferring the ball from defence to attack. He is very needed in counter attack and he can score. On the other hand his passing is very poor . He can be very useful midfielder, but as the worst one, surrended with much more creative midfielders and wingers, who can pass and who will make the best out of Ramires' speed and quick ball transferring.

Mata - he is very creative and our most talented player who can pass but not the type that can do it all by himself. He needs help. It is hard to keep creativity at top while other players pass ball back to defenders or left right to the closest player.

Torres - His Chelsea carrer was gone during his first month here. He should have never come here and he realized it early. But thinking it is all his fault and our team and management had nothing to do with it is very narrow minded.

Lampard- - had he played yesterday, we would probably won. I missed him very much. But that is the problem. When he doesn't score, he often offers nothing in midfield. On the contrary he makes it even worse.

Meireles - was much better and much more usefull in Liverpool. He is not creative, his defensive abilities are poor, his passing is poor and he is trying to find his scoring boots too often. Even if he succeed, he will be in " only usefull when scores" group.

Altought it is very popular to say that bad finishing brought us here, poor finishing has his cause. And that is playing without proper winger and without any creative midfielder with average players for so long.

One of the best posts I've read in a while. It is hard to come to terms with reality sometimes.

[BLionheart 516]

I am quite baffled by this thread. I can see where you are coming from with the Ramires comments. But seriously disagree with you with Sturridge and Mata.

I want to start with Sturridge then get to your comments about Mata. I don't know what you are on about but Sturridge would definitely start for any team in the Premier league, including Man City and United. In fact Mancini has stated the following:

"If Sturridge was here today, he'd be in the first team. I've watched him many times and know him well."

He would definitely start over Antonio Valencia and Ashley Young at United.

Sturridge has been playing shitty lately, but remember this trend is pretty recent since Ivanovic got injured. Bosingwa is single handily doing his best to ensure Sturridge is ineffective, he plays much better with Ivanovic.

Mata is not on the same level as Xavi, Iniesta, Ronaldo, and Messi obviously. But no way is Rooney, Aguero, and Silva on the same tier as them either. There is not much of a difference between Silva and Mata, and Mata is doing a lot on the wing to compensate for a very poor midfield.

Aguero had a great month in his debut, but since then he has pretty much had a lot of inconsistent games like Sturridge and Mata. Aguero is a tad overrated.

Who would have sturridge started instead in man city ? Aguero , Balotelli , Dzeko , Silva , Nasri ?! Mancini is either bluffing their , playing mind games before our match or he is a worse manager than Grant.

Mata is a great player but he is still not as good as those players who consistently make the difference and win games for their teams .

[Peace. 4,352]

1) And I agree about Mata. He is a wonderful, wonderful little player. But his final ball has been shown to be off at times. Especially recently. I don't know if he's tired, or just inconsistent. He is nowhere near as "precise" as some of the great players you have mentioned, including Silva. Valencia fans did "warn" us about this when he was being signed. They said things like while he is tremendously talented, he can be inconsistent, etc.

2) We need someone in the midfield who is able to provide some creativity because we definitely cannot just rely on Mata. He also has the tendency to disappear in games.

1) That isn't down to inconsistency. When you are tired, you lost your lucidity quickly. Consequently, when you aren't lucide while shooting or passing, your accuracy will dramatically suffer from it. It is crystal clear that Mata is being over used. And as I said in an other thread, this exhaustion he amasses week after week has a negative effect on his inspiration his finishing and his accuracy (of shot and pass).

2) The question is why does he have the tendency to disappear in games. First off, let's find out when he is noticeable during game. This is when he comes playing in the center to make the play. Though, this isn't his position on the field, so he can't play in the center every time, and he has often to go back where he is supposed to play. And the moments he disappears, it is when he comes back to his supposed position. So it isn't a problem of consistency, but a problem of position. Indeed, he doesn't have the attributs to be a good winger, thus to be noticeable on the wing. Furthermore, his opponents have the tendency to push him on the wing to shut him down.

[BLionheart 516]

I can't agree with the "best players main problem" part, because when I think about best players (not name reputations), I think about the players who have contributed the most... and that can't be a problem. Our problem still is our worst players.

My point is , those players who have contributed the most and became our best players week in week out , are in-consistent , and don't have the required class to be the best players of a leading European team.

So basically we need new best players , world-cass players and then our current best contributes will be good players to count on but not our best players.

[Tomo 21,681]

Sometimes its not a nessesity to have world class players in the side, Makelele aside who was renound as world class in our 2004/2005 side? at the time that is i know Robben, Drogba and Lamps have turned that way since.

The trick was we had players that worked for eachother and toed in line with the new era, and we need to do that again, we have the core players now we just need to build around that.

The trick in 2004 was we let go every player older than Makelele and replaced them with young hungry talent, we need to do the same again, so every one older than JT and Cole should be let go for the good of the future success. Lampard (legend but he is never going to accept a lesser role), Malouda, Hilario, Ferreira, andBosingwa should be let go and replaced by young, hungry, talent with everything to prove.

We don't need world class players nesseserily, like in 2004 we need a mi of young, hungry players with world class potential (Robben, Tiago) and talented players with good teamwork values (Duff) thats why i think Sessengon will be a good signing for us. Pacy player not world class but got good team work values, could compliment a Hazard type player that Duff did for Robben.

But basically next season we need to start building a spine of Cech/Courtious, Luiz, Ramiress, Mata, and build a formidable TEAM around it.