🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Frank Lampard

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Puliiszola said:

Bravo was his buy. He had Joe Hart. Also bravo was not a record signing whose exclusion from team sheet would have massive repurcussions with the club having to take losses to the tune of 50m to get him off.

Fair point but the fee issue aside, Bravo was a problem for them and Guardiola was ruthless enough to just ditch him altogether. With Kepa, we might suffer some repercussions in terms of losses but if we want to succeed, then we need to be ruthless and bin him off.

4 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Also since you got Klopp in the previous argument, do u know the positions and the goals his team conceded in his first 2.5 years at the club? 8th, 4th and 4th.

Yes, I am aware of that but mind you, am not calling for Lampard's head. Merely only judging his work at the club so far.

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

For 2 games only there’s no need to be reactionary.

Yup, agree to disagree indeed...

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

Yup, agree to disagree indeed...

Hahahaha! I know I know, a season and 2 games, ok?

[Azul 1,615]

All I want is Lampard to finally find his formation and playstyle in the next three games. If he's still going for fluidity in tactics and formation then I'll start to get seriously worried.

[OneMoSalah 9,108]

50 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

That’s exactly what I’m talking about, I don’t think he’s trying to change the style “in big picture” like you all said, for this game can you fault him for being pragmatic knowing the fact that they’re the champion of last year with full squad and we’re missing players? He twitched the tactic to a certain difficult game you say he doesn’t have a philosophy, he kept using the same tactic you say he’s stubborn, I dunno how you fans can be pleased really.

The thing is regardless of yesterday the playing style isnt obvious to see, weve spent almost all of 2020 watching the ball go out wide slowly and getting pumped into the box by either Azpi, James or Alonso. When there is about 2 players in the box. Other than that or let Pulisic dribble and do something we were predictable. Even going wide and cross aimlessly and poorly, predictable. 

Now for yesterday, yes he went more pragmatic and I did wonder after last season if he had it in him because we were too top heavy in games but when you get the ball you’ve got to have a clear idea what your team is going to do in those moments you counter attack. We didnt. Okay the plan was kick it aimlessly for Werner to run onto or hope Havertz will do something. No real coordination or pattern of play that indicates any sort of style for me. Just relying on individual qualities not any teamwork or coached movements. It Werner didnt play 2 of the chances dont happen (his shot first half and the penalty). It was his individual quality as opposed to any outstanding play. 

Also Frank totally went against what he was implementing the first 6 months of last season and it has to be down to he didnt believe we were going to be good enough to beat Liverpool playing how he wants us to play on the day, even missing some players that 11 consisted of majority of players who played regularly last season, which if thats the case he shouldn’t be trying to get us to play that way. If this was Mourinho or Conte after spending 200m it would be a meltdown. Even if these players weren’t all available. Its very inexcusable. If it was due to unluckiness we lost or didnt do anything offensively, yes different story but the only positive from that game was Timo’s individual quality and Tomori’s performance which makes me wonder why he marginalised his minutes last season when we struggled defensively? 

[Strike 7,794]

24 minutes ago, Azul said:

All I want is Lampard to finally find his formation and playstyle in the next three games. If he's still going for fluidity in tactics and formation then I'll start to get seriously worried.

Yep. Fluidity in tactics and formation usually works when there is an established way of playing in the first place

[Jase 43,479]

15 minutes ago, Strike said:

Fluidity in tactics and formation usually works when there is an established way of playing in the first place

[killer1257 3,282]

All I want is Lampard to finally find his formation and playstyle in the next three games. If he's still going for fluidity in tactics and formation then I'll start to get seriously worried.

If all of our signings are fit and available, we will start seeing our new formation, but Chilwell was injured 3 months, Ziyech two or three weeks and Pulisic almost 6 weeks.
Even that will take more time til they are match fit. We can only expect from Silva more than the other players because he has been fit at least.

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[Blue Armour 4,730]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

Ironic to hear considering how much stick Mourinho or Conte used to get for setting up 'conservatively' in big games. 

Well, tbf they resorted to an extreme level of conservative football.

Conte's 'sufferball' tactics against City away from the first minute till the last, in his second season, were just vomit inducing. 

Yesterdays game was nowhere near that bad. 

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Well, tbf they resorted to an extreme level of conservative football.

Conte's 'sufferball' tactics against City away from the first minute till the last, in his second season, were just vomit inducing. 

Yesterdays game was nowhere near that bad. 

It wasn't as bad as the game at City but it was still close to it. I shall say no more though...

[Fernando 6,726]

13 hours ago, Mana said:

I don't think anyone here is saying "Sack Lampard!!!" However for me personally, the writing's on the wall.

Bar a small handful of matches last season, I haven't been really impressed with Lampard's tactics and team selection.

People told me that things will change this season and last season should be a "free pass".  So far, nothing has changed.

Lampard is stubborn, I can only look at his goalkeeping choice to know that he is. People argue Willy is slightly worse, but Willy didn't disrespect a coach when he was asked to sub off. And I'm sure Willy will not pull a feck up like Kepa did for the second Liverpool goal. It amazes me how Kepa is still #1, when he has done near feck all since that Carabao Cup final.

Lampard-defenders are leeching on to "Ziyech, Chilwell, Silva etc haven't played!" now. Okay, if they were all playing and we still look shite...then what? Because it's very possible. What's the next excuse? Give him time? Everton didn't need time! They got a new midfield and James and they are looking better already!

What's so special about Lampard except he's a club legend? His time at Derby wasn't all that great.

He changed their footballing style ok, but the defense was shite and that cost Derby their return to the PL. I really wanted Lampard to stay in Derby and prove himself. Him coming to Chelsea this early in his career rubbed me the wrong way.

Don't get me wrong, it will be a dream for Lampard to lift big trophies as a Chelsea coach. But we need to split dream from reality. 

You have a point and I feel you, but after 2 games in the new season? 

For real? 

There's no point in taking things serious now as every season the same thing happens. Some teams start amazing and fall apart, some start bad and improve. Others bad and continue to be bad. 

But anyone not learning from the past is just ignoring that nothing is to be taking serious at the beginning. It's just the news paper that have to hype things up to sell stuff. 

But everyone should know is that by November-December time frame is when we know the real deal of the sustainability of the club for that season. 

Hence my point is to wait and see how we are doing by November. 

Edit: For the record if by November-December we still doing the same shenanigans then I would want us to get Nagelsmann. And if we can't get him in December then no point sacking Lampard mid season, wait to finish the season and next season get Nagelsmann. 

[Atomiswave 6,120]

32 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Well, tbf they resorted to an extreme level of conservative football.

Conte's 'sufferball' tactics against City away from the first minute till the last, in his second season, were just vomit inducing. 

Yesterdays game was nowhere near that bad. 

That is true but we had bigger howlers last season imo, numerous ones that made us look like utter baffoons.

And please folks stop comparing klopp/Pep to FL. Both were winners before they came here, both have certain style, they developed teams/players.....its not comparable at all imo.

[Unionjack 7,532]

Are we going to have any more Sheff Utds? Please say no cause Im not sure/

[Azul 1,615]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

Yep. Fluidity in tactics and formation usually works when there is an established way of playing in the first place

Exactly he doesn't even have a playstyle, and this is his second season! Let's just hope he finds it as soon as possible and our players adapt very quickly.

[Tomo 21,751]

1 hour ago, Atomiswave said:

That is true but we had bigger howlers last season imo, numerous ones that made us look like utter baffoons.

And please folks stop comparing klopp/Pep to FL. Both were winners before they came here, both have certain style, they developed teams/players.....its not comparable at all imo.

But Klopp wasn't a winner when he went to Dortmund, so should they have sacked him when they struggled early on and gone for a "proven winner" like say, Felix Magath?

[Tomo 21,751]

10 minutes ago, Azul said:

Exactly he doesn't even have a playstyle, and this is his second season! Let's just hope he finds it as soon as possible and our players adapt very quickly.

He appears since lockdown to be settling for the Zidane approach, ie keep it more compact and let the talent up top change the games in our favour.

Could actually help us compete in Europe but skeptical it can win a league Vs Pep and Klopp.

[Jase 43,479]

7 minutes ago, Tomo said:

He appears since lockdown to be settling for the Zidane approach, ie keep it more compact and let the talent up top change the games in our favour.

Could actually help us compete in Europe but skeptical it can win a league Vs Pep and Klopp.

Why do I feel like you're holding back on this matter?  

[Atomiswave 6,120]

54 minutes ago, Tomo said:

But Klopp wasn't a winner when he went to Dortmund, so should they have sacked him when they struggled early on and gone for a "proven winner" like say, Felix Magath?

Your right that was the case, but he kept that klopp style intact throughout, I might be wrong but I dont remember him chopping and changing players formations and his way of playing every damn game. FL dont know his style yet it seems, he does not know his best 11....we wont get anywhere until thats sorted im afraid.

[prehuman 119]

6 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

So Giroud started last season as 3rd striker. Was out of the team for like 6 months. Then he became 2nd striker over Michy and finished the season as a 1st striker and scoring in almost every game. Without him no chance we would get CL football. He saved us!

And now after all great games he is back to where he was. 3rd striker. What message Frank is sending here? 

Like many said yesterday was perfect game for him. Werner LW, CHO RW and Kai AM. It is clear that this team would do much better. 

Last season he scored twice against Liverpool and was great in 2:0 Cup game. 

In 5:3 loss we started with Willian and Mount wide and they were shit. We became instantly much better team when he introduced real fast wingers in Pulisic and CHO. And he learned nothing from that since he did the same mistake again. Frank is so weird with his lineups. 

 

excellent example

[0007 511]

I can't really  remember Klopp only setting up his team to nulify the opponent and not to use the opportunities to attack them. And by opportunities I don't mean relying on your best player to come up with some sort of magic or hoping that the opponent will make  a costly error like the one Mendy did. I actually mean transitions that have been trained and some sort of attacking patterns that can be seen.But even in Klopp's early seasons they had a go at every team no matter who was against them.They weren't as successful as they are nowadays  but at least didn't abandon the approach for the sake of getting the result needed. And it paid off big time. We just have this inferior complex that some teams are just better than us and we have to stop them instead of the opposite.And it's not a new thing - it has been this way since the first Mourinho stint here. In fact, I think that he instilled this mindset in a lot of our fans and they are OK with it. 

WTF do we do in training? Our build-up play is well below the level it was with Sarri. We were boring at times, his stuborness was well-known, his team selections were at more than questionable but at least we were good at something because we actually have been training it. I am 100% sure that Lampard wants us to play out from the back and to become really good at it but you have to have the  actual knowledge and the ideas to make the team execute it. Most of the times the ball goes to the full-backs and they play it long to the wingers. Pochettino's Tottenham did it but they did play those long balls to the space behind the opponent's full-backs and the runs their wingers did were in sync with the passes. We try aiming the ball  to the wingers and   hope to win the second balls. Playing through the middle is almost non-existent. Jorginho is a player I like a lot but without the required movement of the players around him he is useless. And the movement is so bad at times and I am not talking only about yesterday.In these big games when we don't try to have the ball and with the lack of movement we benefit more from players like Kovacic who can overcome the press by dribbling past the opponent's players. 

 

I am even angrier at our attempts of pressing. Lampard clearly is keen on us pressing the hell of our  opponents (although as we saw yesterday it's not like we will always do it) but our press at times is easy to be passed on. Our full-backs stay deep which makes us not compact enough.There is always space  on the flanks and I can't even remember how many times Liverpool passed the ball to a free player there and kept on with their attack. We don't want to commit too much people it seems  but this hurts our press  big time.And it's not always about the quality of your players, it's the positioning and the movement that is  more important while pressing. 

 

Look at Bayern - Flick has been there for less than an year but his idea of playing was clear within his first  month of coaching them. There are other not so successful examples but an year and 2 months should be enough to see what we are in for. Right now nobody knows if we are going to be pragmatic, who between Kante and Jorginho is first choice and what our best line-up is. I agree with some of the posters that in order to be adaptive you have to master the basics first. IMO we should play with Jorginho and Kova against the lesser sides - our best run if wins last year was without Kante. He is a liability against teams that just want to deffend but a lot of our fans love him and can't see him out of the starting line-up.But this topic is for another conversation. 

 

I love Frank - he is intelligent, smart and a really nice guy. But I am afraid that the managers he played under are partly responsible for the way he implements some  of his ideas because almost all of them were pragmatic/reactive. Hope I am wrong and  the excuses are relevant.I am skeptical but Lampard still has the time to convince me  that he is  capable.