🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Frank Lampard

[Superblue 6,372]

3 minutes ago, Mana said:

Bleh, 2nd ever EPL defeat. There's that 2012 one that I forgot.

Definitely more than that. We lost one year 3-0 at home under Ranieri too, think it was 2001 because it was the same year we battered them 3-0 at Old Trafford and they did the reverse on us later in the season.

[!Hazard! 3,394]

It's February and Chelsea fans want the manager gone. What else is new

[Vesper 30,185]

11 minutes ago, Mana said:

Bleh, 2nd ever EPL defeat. There's that 2012 one that I forgot.

thanks! I was too lazy to look it up, lololol

[Ayioros 76]

Lampard deserves to stay at least a second season with propers players whatever the end of the season.

When I see this Chelsea team played I’m bitter sweet.
Sweet because we play good football, attractive, attacking. I find our football is more interesting under Lampard than under Sarri.
Under Sarri its was always the same, it was just boring to watch. We had possesion ok but we made side pass and side pass during the majority of the match.
And Bitter because we have an evident lack of quality on our front line and some defensive correction to make.

We lost our best player who give us 50% of our goals last season and without the possibilité to replace him.
We play with some players that a lot of football fans didn’t knew 6 month ago (Abraham, Mount, Reece, Tomori).
So its dissapointing if we fail in view of our good start but in the end it’s not a surprise.

I’m sur with Ziyech,, a good left back, a proper nine, and an other attractive Winger (Sancho or this kind) we should do an incredible season next year.
We will be fool to sack Lampard, this club really need to learn from the past.

[Atomiswave 6,117]

Im fuming FL was so dull after the game, he should have had the balls to mention and tear those refs a new one. THis shit cant continue.

FL is a legend and will always remain so, but as a manager he is simply not astute enough. Anyday of the week I rather have a class manager than a class squad. An average manager can make a quality team look stale.

FL aint the answer sadly, nor the staff, and it looks like he is overworking the players hence all the injuries. Tactically very naive, lineups all but bonkers. Still can be cut so easily, still cant defend, set-pieces almost always gives our opponent a free goal. The structure out of balance bare a couple of games, no organization. Playing the wrong players time after time. It came too soon for him its simple......and FUCK THE BOARD, its totally on them we are in such a mess. RA better either do something about it or just fucking sell already.

[Special Juan 28,141]

Rumor has it that FL and Jody Morris are still sat in the dug-out

[Fernando 6,585]

13 hours ago, Henrique said:

Lets be honest, late February, the team is a mess on the pitch.

Players who were not even making the bench out of nowhere are selected to start games. Players who were in good form are benched for no good reason. Players in bad form start game after game.

Forget Lampard the player. Lampard the player is a living legend. Lampard the manager is easily  the worst manager of Roman Abramovich era. Today's result is irrelevant, and VAR was a disgrace but Lampard got it wrong both in tactics and team selection.

2 most used arguments to back Lampard are:

1- The  team didn't sign anyone and the squad is not good enough, so Lampard is overachieving. 

2- Guardiola and Klopp also had terrible first seasons when both were hired by City and Liverpool

Lets check this arguments:

1- The number argument is probably the most used, and the one that makes mad!! For one simple reason: Spurs, United and Arsenal also have limited squads and they didn't make any big signings in past 2 transfer windows, and when a say "big signings" I'm not talking about the amount of money, but the quality. Arsenal biggest signing was David Luiz, and United biggest signing was Maguire. But lets forget about "big six teams". Right now Leicester is 9 points clear, and Sheffield is only 2 points behind. But of course, @Fernando will probably suggest Leicester have a much better squad and that Sheffield have better players.

2- If you want to bring Klopp and Guardiola first seasons in Premier League into discussion, feel free, but I don't see the point of comparison since Lampard previous managerial experience is: a single season as Derby County manager in Championship where he finished 6th in regular season !! Again, Lampard previous managerial experience is a single season as Derby County manager in Championship where he finished in 6th in regular season. Both Guardiola and Klopp were already considered one of the best managers you one team could hire.

There is no much point in continuing this discussion, because who believe Lampard is the right man just want to bring things to support their point of view despite the evidences. Pochettino is free in the market, and Nuno Espirito Santo and Brendan Rodgers are just better managers than Lampard. 

If Lampard indeed become a great manager in the future I will be the first to admit I was wrong, but I don't think thats the case here. Yes, the team is 4th right now and might end in 4th, but I will use an argument people used a lot in this forum to support managers: "you can't always look at results". Even if the team finish inside top 4 I don't expect great things from Lampard next seasons, because the team played a good football for like 10% of the season. Even when the team is winning there are a lot of problems there, like team conceding silly goals or almost throwing easy victories. I think there few games this season where we could say "wow, what a performance". 

Next season is set to be a wasted season if he still is the manager by the started of 20/21 season.

So your using leicester excuse of being in front of us as a barometer? 

Then Nuno is behind Chelsea, Poch never won a tittle and his team was behind us this season. 

We can play like that, I think it's foolish to look at it. Context plays a key and the context here is that Lampard has done better then I thought. 

My initial outcome for the season was between 7th and 10th. We are still fourth and we are playing youth. So Lampard for me has done way better then what I expected of this season and that after losing hazard and no transfer for the whole season. 

[killer1257 3,282]

9 minutes ago, Mana said:

Oh, he most certainly would drop Willian. Willian is only our second best winger this season because nobody else has been given a chance.

The referees isn't the only reason why we lost the game yesterday, stop going on about that.

B-team, A-team, C-team, Z-team, this is another excuse. To be honest, I don't care much about that game but a loss is still a loss regardless on what cup it was. And it's not like the pen was the winning goal.

The 4-0 defeat is the only game that I can say "Well, first game - at least we created a lot of chances and that was more down to the players, not Lampard."

I agree with Pep. You won't win nothing with youth team players. But we are not fighting for the title, are we? This is about top 4. When we start getting class, experienced players with some youth, only then we can start thinking of winning titles.

As I said before, losing yesterday is not the reason why I'm pissed off. The main reason is because it's 4 wins in 15+ games. If Pep lost to United with us yesterday but our form is better than it is now, I'll be frustrated and rant at the refs and VAR, but I will not be waking up next morning still angry with what's going on.

Pep would have dropped Azpi like he dropped Joe Hart when he was the main captain for City. Azpi isn't a leader, so it's simple to drop him. Just because he has a big mouth on the pitch doesn't mean he is leading.

No fan will shout at Pep for dropping Azpi really. He's not that good.

Bring them up.

Lamps played Pedro, CHO, Willian and Pulisic, so all of the wingers were given a chance. Pedro is not in his prime anymore, so he is not better than Willian. He used to be better than him.CHO is getting better in recent weeks, but still not better than Willian. Only Pulisic is better than him and he is injured.I don´t see a youth team winger that is ready for that.

Pep would not do any better with this team. He underperforms big time with City this season.

[Superblue 6,372]

30 minutes ago, Mana said:

Look, I totally understand where you are coming from. Lampard taking this job is a massive step in his coaching career. And if he did this for any other top club (bar Spuds), I'll be happy for him. It's just that it has to happen to Chelsea FC. The club is in a shambles, and I'm just not happy he chose us to be that stepping stone for his career. Because what we are seeing, is what you get when you combine rookies from top to bottom.

I don't have a hatred for Lampard. I want him gone, but if he proves to become a fantastic coach in the future, no doubt he'll be back here (and I would want him back here). But he sadly picked one of the worst times in Chelsea to take this job.

I understand your stance on it but if the club wasn't in this state, the job wouldn't have been there for Lampard this summer. He benefited from the club being in a position of difficulty. And like I mentioned before, he could have waited but that offer may never come round again, you can't ever expect it to.

And whilst you can claim Lampard is selfish for taking the job on, I don't think what he's tried to do this season has been selfish because he's tried bringing through a number of younger players on mass and trying to develop a more progressive style of football. We could see the teething problems this would create last season with Sarri, and that was with one of the best attacking players in the world in our team. 

I still stand by my opinion that, whether Lampard is here long term, the younger players will all be better for and as a result of this season and have all been tied down long term to the club which looked very unlikely before Lampard came in this summer. In a transitional year where we couldn't improve the squad through the transfer market and lost our best player, it is a big long term positive that can be taken and we hopefully can look back 3 or 4 years from now and appreciate the difficulties we're suffering now was worth it.

[Jase 43,479]

11 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I still stand by my opinion that, whether Lampard is here long term, the younger players will all be better for and as a result of this season and have all been tied down long term to the club which looked very unlikely before Lampard came in this summer. In a transitional year where we couldn't improve the squad through the transfer market and lost our best player, it is a big long term positive that can be taken and we hopefully can look back 3 or 4 years from now and appreciate the difficulties we're suffering now was worth it.

The club may have tied the young players down to long term contracts but the next manager can easily toss them aside if they deem them not good enough. 

[Superblue 6,372]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

The club may have tied the young players down to long term contracts but the next manager can easily toss them aside if they deem them not good enough. 

And at the very least the club will get millions in transfer fees for some of these players. 

However I think now though some are getting established within the Chelsea squad and even internationally, they'll have much more chance here even without Lampard.

The most difficult thing was always going to be breaking in and getting those opportunities initially. The culture of the club has largely prevented this for years with regular managerial changes, who are coming in with very much a short term view on the club rather than building for the long term which is usually at the expense of giving some of these younger players a chance. 

The biggest case in point of this is Loftus Cheek who should have been given chances way before last season under Mourinho and then Conte.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

30 minutes ago, Jason said:

The club may have tied the young players down to long term contracts but the next manager can easily toss them aside if they deem them not good enough. 

If there was no transfer ban Lampard wouldn't have been hired and the new manager would have loaned out Tammy, Mount and Tomori. If Lampard gets sacked or leaves definite chance they'll go back out on loan or even sold in a couple of seasons.

[Vesper 30,185]

15 hours ago, ZaynChelsea said:

I‘m afraid if we stick to Lampard we could turn into Arsenal

you have to include the board with that

they are also, in fact even more, to blame

incredibly poor player buys/sales/non-buys/non-sales, shameful contractual management, and a complete lack of general direction for years upon years now

IF we renew Willian and Pedro and do not offload both Alonso and Emerson this can no longer be debated by anyone who is operating in good faith

[Vesper 30,185]

15 hours ago, Bosnian Blue said:

Needs to start learning from his mistakes. Still absolutely behind him but it worries me he doesn't see some things (for example Christensen being the worst CB on the team)

and Azpi at LB absolutely crippling us offensively, and his refusal to play Giroud more, plus now his clear intent to play the woefully inadequate Willy for what may be the rest of the year

Kepa is in a real funk, but that can be coached away, Willy is profoundly incapable as a first team keeper

he is old, so so slow, bad at positioning, and very poor at distribution

[killer1257 3,282]

8 minutes ago, Vesper said:

you have to include the board with that

they are also, in fact even more, to blame

incredibly poor player buys/sales/non-buys/non-sales, shameful contractual management, and a complete lack of general direction for years upon years now

IF we renew Willian and Pedro and do not offload both Alonso and Emerson this can no longer be debated by anyone who is operating in good faith

Don´t forget that we also had a transfer ban during the summer due to illegal activities from our board. A good summer transfer window would have solved so many problems

[Tomo 21,751]

1 hour ago, Iggy Doonican said:

If Lampard gets sacked or leaves definite chance they'll go back out on loan or even sold in a couple of seasons.

I can't see it, even if the new manager wanted to discard them they're on first team wages now so it won't be easy to find a club willing to pay them.

And furthermore they've got the experience of PL football now so they won't be seen as a "risk", even Jose who's not exactly known for his youth development went to United and kept Rashford in the fold after LVG did the hard part.

However given the talent we have coming through if the worst happened with Lamps it would be vital to appoint a manager who values youth development, what's got me through a lot of these last two season's is the hope we're eventually building something sustainable, would be depressing to discard all that now and revert back to type.

[Vesper 30,185]

15 hours ago, ZaynChelsea said:

Lampard‘s post match interview is a dull shower of shit.

José....

 

[Atomiswave 6,117]

Even if FL gets the sack I dont think we will get rid of the youth. Mount under a quality manager can be decent as a squad player, Tammy the same. James is quality and even Tomori can be decent if coached right.

[Atomiswave 6,117]

6 minutes ago, Vesper said:

 

I feel for him, you can see he is under pressure. But he let them cunts get a free ride, I mean the FA/refs etc. You need a strong manager in this case to voice his opinion, klopp would have gone amok, not that he ever ever will experience such corruption. We are fucking pussies for letting them fuck us over time and time again, pussies.

[Vesper 30,185]

Just now, Atomiswave said:

I feel for him, you can see he is under pressure. But he let them cunts get a free ride, I mean the FA/refs etc. You need a strong manager in this case to voice his opinion, klopp would have gone amok, not that he ever ever will experience such corruption. We are fucking pussies for letting them fuck us over time and time again, pussies.

Scholes: Mourinho would’ve got Maguire sent off at Chelsea

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Chelsea bench slammed by Man Utd great Paul Scholes after Harry Maguire reaction

Manchester United defender Harry Maguire escaped punishment despite appearing to kick out at Michy Batshuayi in front of the Chelsea bench on Monday evening

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-bench-slammed-man-utd-21520496

 

Ref Watch: Harry Maguire needed more punishment after Michy Batshuayi challenge

Kurt Zouma and Olivier Giroud disallowed goals for Chelsea also analysed

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11937019/ref-watch-harry-maguire-needed-more-punishment-after-michy-batshuayi-challenge

 

Harry Maguire set to avoid retrospective action for Michy Batshuayi kick as Roy Keane labels him ‘very, very lucky’

United captain escaped sanction when he appeared to lash out at the Chelsea striker but his actions went down badly with Roy Keane and Jamie Carragher who believe he should have been sent off

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/harry-maguire-chelsea-vs-manchester-united-video-watch-kick-michy-batshuayi-retrospective-action-a9341951.html