🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Frank Lampard

[Jase 43,479]

6 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Sarri had RLC is his best days and Hazard, who is the greatest Chelsea Player of all time. Lamps does have Mount and Willian as their replacements instead. Our squad sucks. Sarri had a way better Squad. One World class Player makes a huge difference. I see that all the time when I watch Barcelona. Take Messi out of the team and that Team is garbage apart from Griezmann. Even stats show that. People forget that we were Hazard FC.


Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk
 

You are right but at the same time, the argument kinda falls flat when you see the likes of Sheffield United and Wolves up there. They have less quality than us but they are better coached, better drilled and looked more cohesive as a team. Every game involving us these days is a bad case of deja vu because the same rubbish keeps on happening and bad results just feel inevitable, even supposedly against the smaller teams!

[Special Juan 28,141]

This free hit is becoming no longer one, should be massively scrutinized, his selections in parts have been pathetic.

[killer1257 3,282]

You are right but at the same time, the argument kinda falls flat when you see the likes of Sheffield United and Wolves up there. They have less quality than us but they are better coached, better drilled and looked more cohesive as a team. Every game involving us these days is a bad case of deja vu because the same rubbish keeps on happening and bad results just feel inevitable, even supposedly against the smaller teams!

I can't really say anything about Sheffield, but Traore from Wolves is way better than Willian and Mount. Traore is the best dribbler in the League by far and stats show that. Take Traore out of the Team and their counter striking would not been as effective as it is now. Bale carried Spurs back then and when he was gone, it took then some years go get back. When Ronaldo left Real, Real was garbage at first. Now, with some new Signings they look ok. Lamps did not even get one signing to improve our team. In the Summer, our team got worse when our best Player left and our Second best got injured.

Also, if we had their Coach, we may concede less, but also score less goals also. People would go crazy then. Also, their Coach had way more time to implement his ideas and probably made Signings to play his way

Lamps makes mistakes. Don't get me wrong, but I don't see a coach that would get us Top 4 easily with that Squad. Keep in mind that Tammy, our best goalscorer, would be loaned out if Mou was our Coach. James would also be not in the squad


Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

6 minutes ago, Mana said:

He's not following the footsteps of Pep/Klopp when it comes to woeful seasons as he is doing WORSE.

Klopp finished 8th in first season. 

You should wait till end of the season to attack Frank. We are 4th and still in CL and FA cup. 

You did this exactly a year ago with Sarri and he finished 3rd and won EL. 

[Jase 43,479]

14 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I can't really say anything about Sheffield, but Traore from Wolves is way better than Willian and Mount. Traore is the best dribbler in the League by far and stats show that. Take Traore out of the Team and their counter striking would not been as effective as it is now. Bale carried Spurs back then and when he was gone, it took then some years go get back. When Ronaldo left Real, Real was garbage at first. Now, with some new Signings they look ok. Lamps did not even get one signing to improve our team. In the Summer, our team got worse when our best Player left and our Second best got injured.

Also, if we had their Coach, we may concede less, but also score less goals also. People would go crazy then. Also, their Coach had way more time to implement his ideas and probably made Signings to play his way

The point here isn't about one player being the difference maker. Even if you have that one star player, the team should still be well coached and well drilled. Do you seriously think we are well coached and well drilled right now? Sure, Chris Wilder and Nuno have been at Sheffield United and Wolves respectively long enough to implement their ideas but we are in February already, we are 8 months into Lampard's tenure and yet, we are seeing the same BS in pretty much every game now. We can't score goals and we are so easy to score against. Bad results feel inevitable, good results feel like a surprise! And of course, Lampard has also done "great" in causing all those muscle injuries to key players by overworking the players. The winter break, for example, was thought to be a good thing but we've come back with more injuries than before. 

21 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Lamps makes mistakes. Don't get me wrong, but I don't see a coach that would get us Top 4 easily with that Squad.

In a proper standard, good season, I'd be inclined to agree with you but the Premier League has been crap this season. With all the average-ness and inconsistency going around, competing for the Top 4 should be the target, getting into the Top 4 should be an objective and not something seen as a bonus if we do so. 

23 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Keep in mind that Tammy, our best goalscorer, would be loaned out if Mou was our Coach. James would also be not in the squad

Abraham is the best striker out of a bad bunch. 

I don't even know why you mentioned Mourinho, like we will ever hire him back again. And Lampard isn't the only manager around who would play young players and while he has integrated them into the squad, he admitted last week that they might have been loaned out again had there not been the transfer ban.

https://www.goal.com/en-sg/news/mount-tomori-would-likely-have-been-loaned-out-had-there-not/18d9b8qroq9o41w9dmnvsyl8yj

[killer1257 3,282]

He's not following the footsteps of Pep/Klopp when it comes to woeful seasons as he is doing WORSE.

Compare Man Citys Squad back then with our squad right now. Huge difference. They had Yaya Toure, Aguero, David Silva, Kompany etc. There were many articles that claimed Guardiola does not want to come to us because he needed 9 new players. Back then we had Hazard, Cesc and Costa. Everything in life is a Process and needs Time. If Pep would be our coach with the same results, you would say that he needs his Signings.

Our Board fucked many Things up due to the illegal activities they did, so Fifa banned us and Lamps could not replace Hazard. We do not even have our Second best Player in RLC who scored 10 goals last season with a limited amount of minutes. Mount is nowhere near RLCs Level. Also, our new no. 10 is Willian. From Hazard, we went to Willian. Look at how Hazard carried us last Season and we still barely made Top 4. This Team is not as good as you think it is.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk

[Superblue 6,372]

16 minutes ago, Mana said:

My point is that you cannot compare. You only just strengthened my point here. Pep had the greatest team, while Lampard did not. That's why their stories and comparisons are incompatible.

If anything, Lampard should be compared to Ole, they are MORE compatible with each other. They are both work experience coaches.

Pep got his work experience on his first season with Barca too, but guess what? Barca planned it to a tee, a rookie coach with an experienced, class squad. 

If we are going to have Frank as coach, that's how it should be. Having him with a rookie/shite squad combined is a recipe for disaster. 

You can say, "Well that's the board's fault then!" Yes, it is their fault and there should be protests. Once I hear a protest has been organised, I'll make the effort to go down south of London to help the protest against the board. The board needs to fecking go.

But this is also 50% Lampard's fault, by signing that contract. It's not like he didn't know he had a massive uphill task on his shoulders. It's not like he didn't know we had the transfer ban. It's not like he didn't know the board is shite and can screw him. He signed it punching above his weight.

I'm sorry but he needs to go at the end of the season. He can come back when he made his work experience elsewhere. He's not following the footsteps of Pep/Klopp when it comes to woeful seasons as he is doing WORSE.

You cannot blame Lampard for taking the job one bit. For someone like him who is a legitimate legend of the club and has always maintained such a great relationship with the fans and staff, if he's offered the job he'd be a fool not to take it because that opportunity may never come about again. Management is so cut throat, all it would have taken is a bad season this year at Derby and his career could have been as good as done. 

At the very least now, even if this ends in tears, managing such a big club will increase his stock regardless to get another job at a smaller Prem club or back in the Championship. The risk was well worth it for Lampard.

If anybody is to blame for this it's the board. They have decided to make the move for Lampard, and they have also made the decisions over the last few years of changing managers with differing styles and philosophies whilst failing to adjust the squad accordingly (and it's not that we haven't spent money because we have, just very poorly). The squad we have is a shadow of what it once was.

However if there is one big positive in my opinion of this season, and I think the main reason they went for Lampard in what was always going to be a difficult year, is we now have half a dozen players aged 22 or under who will benefit hugely from this season and the development of playing regularly at the top level. All of them will have varying success in their careers, but at worst all have proven that they're good enough for a place in this Chelsea squad moving forward. This time last year we were looking down the barrel of relying on an ageing squad, two of our better younger players couldn't get a sniff at a game, and the rest were in loan purgatory. They are all now tied down (with the exception of Tammy) to long term contracts with a lot of games under their belts this season.

I firmly believe that if Sarri had stayed we would have struggled just as much for scoring goals, etc but still been relying on the likes of Luiz, Pedro and Giroud in our team. Take Hazard out and this squad has been allowed to become absolute bang average over the last couple of years.

This year with the circumstances was always likely to be a couple of steps back to move forward but I do still think an element of good groundwork has been laid for the future, but it is absolutely imperative that we get the right players in this summer to move forward with. I originally felt we wouldn't bring in more than 3 or 4 based on how the board have operated in the past, and that the rebuild would take two summers. However how early we've moved for Ziyech outside of the transfer window makes me hopeful that there will be more activity this summer than I expected. I personally think Lampard deserves a season with a better squad to truly assess him, however regardless of if he stays or goes in my opinion the younger members of the squad coming through has made the difficulties of this season worthwhile because the long term impact and gain should be far greater than the short term problems we have now.

 

[Tomo 21,751]

12 hours ago, Mana said:

This argument drove me insane back in early parts of the season when people were using this. Cannot compare, you just cannot. The easiest counterpunch to this argument is that Pep and Klopp actually have CVs while Frank is empty.

Pep came to Manchester City and Klopp came to Liverpool as professional coaches in the game. They didn't come in for work experience like Lampard.

The ironic thing is, last season we actually had a manager proven in building a title challenging side playing the football we're trying to build to and even then you constantly pulled out the "CV" line after every bad result.

[Tomo 21,751]

45 minutes ago, Mana said:

Klopp took over in the middle of the season 

The season only 16 games long these days?

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

Lampard is held in high esteem by Chelsea fans and rightly so. You only have to read it in posts fans are reluctant to slag him off they're holding back and I can understand that it almost feels disloyal to give a legend pelters. Not me though I'm old enough to have seen some terrible managers over the years and while Lampard isn't on that list he certainly isn't in the top bracket and personally I don't think he's got the minerals to be a top manager.

 The time has come to seperate Lampard the player and Lampard the manager because Lampard the manager looks pretty clueless and it's his legendary status that's keeping him in a job. Yes a transfer ban, injuries and last night's fiasco where the ref and all the var twats seemed to get collective blindness doesn't help but we are in freefall no question about it.

Lose against Spurs and badly against Bayern Munich and he's in real trouble and I know fans will say give him time but it's Chelsea we support and having a revolving door of managers hasn't exactly hindered us when it comes to silverware. 

[Tomo 21,751]

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

...did we win the title, or even come close to winning the title or did I miss something?

Sarri was "proven" in building a side to challenge for the title, something we are trying to build to but even that wasn't enough evidence for you he could have in time built one here.

[Tomo 21,751]

3 minutes ago, Mana said:

16 games is a lot. You're talking as if it's a small number. That's like a 1/3 of the season. Also Klopp had little time to assess the squad (which people used to compare with Sarri last season).

He came in after 8 games, hence the "a season is 16 games" question. I could be wrong but I think they were actually 8th when he took over which by your very logic isn't progress as he took them from 8th to 8th.

[Tomo 21,751]

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

One time.

Likewise with Klopp ,he only had one team built to go on. 

[Tomo 21,751]

6 minutes ago, Mana said:

Klopp had a CV, Lampard hasn't. Klopp, while finished 8th played better football that season than Lampard's (so far and this statement will most likely be true bar a miracle turn around).

Klopp reached the Europa League Final with that shite Liverpool squad as well. Stop with the comparisons.

What "CV" did Dortmund have to go on during Klopp's initial struggle?

What "CV" did Levy have to go on when Pochettino struggled initially? 

By your logic we should have just brought back Jose cause "he's got the CV innit".

And, like I said, last season we had a manager proven in constructing a title challenging side playing great football and surprise surprise that wasn't enough for you.

[Tomo 21,751]

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

Dortmund were not a big club then so they can give Klopp that leadway.

Spuds (especially at that time) were not a big club either.

But we did bring Jose back?

...in Serie A. No, he wasn't good enough. He's supposed to be an experienced coach, and he was too busy trying to coach the uncoachable players. Only RLC he brought up, and we had to force his hand to play Emerson and CHO.

In Serie A under a man that makes Levy look a great backer of his managers against a powerhouse who poached his best player.

And he's been proven right with Emerson, he was first choice from March till December last calender year and done absolutely nothing (apart from a decent cross in Baku and a good half in a match we lost 4-0) to show he was even better than Marcos, let alone good enough to be a long term starter for Chelsea.

[Superblue 6,372]

22 minutes ago, Mana said:

Yes I can blame for taking the job? It's like Ole at United, I'm pretty sure Ole when he was signing that contract, he knew he's punching above his weight with that useless coaching staff behind him...but hey! This is my only chance to manage United, as I'll be found out eventually!!!

If Lampard turned down the job, I would had understand, so would many fans and that would even put more pressure on the board. Because if a legend of the club, turns his dream job down it shows how woeful our board is. But nope, he wanted to become a shield to them. He came in with one year experience.

Imagine me working for a year in a small e-commerce company, just missed out on my sales targets then Amazon came along and put me in charge of running Amazon because "I am friends with everybody there". You'll be thinking WTF?

But you know what? You're right. I even said what you said a month ago. This is good (and selfish) for Lampard. He has "Chelsea FC" in his CV now.  When he gets sacked, clubs like Palace will look in to him and hire him. This is why I'm pissed off that Chelsea FC has become a work experience club.

I took on a job very early in my career that I wasn't qualified or experienced for and knew it too, but I talked myself into an opportunity and I backed myself to work hard, continue to learn and develop and if it didn't work out at least I'd have no regrets that I didn't try to push and maximise myself. Making that decision was the best thing I could have done and gave me the platform and experience to become fully qualified in what I do by the age of 21 and my own business by my mid 20's that has given me far more flexibility around my kids.

For me that all boils down to mentality. Hiding behind a lack of experience or qualifications for not pushing yourself and going as far as you can is no excuse. How much do you really want something and believe in something, or is there just an excuse for a 'get out' because there is always an excuse for everything in life; You'll always find one.

Lampard will have known he lacked the experience but clearly would back himself to take such a daunting job full on, and when that opportunity has been offered he's a fool to turn it down.

Lampard has probably identified that although he was taking us over in pretty dire straits, United and Arsenal were also both a shadow of what they once were also and if he could get through this first year intact and be given a summer to rebuild the squad properly with some of his own signings then things could really kick on from there. And despite all the negativity at present, we're still very much in the hunt for the top 4 and could well get it. Everybody wrote last season off around Feb/March and we finished 3rd.

[Vesper 30,182]

14 hours ago, killer1257 said:

I don't know what Matches you have seen, but referee fucked the match up. Winning when the referees are against you, is nearly Impossible

Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk
 

both can be true

the game was literally stolen, but so many others were not

if Lamps loses the next 5 games, he needs to be sacked

maybe the next 4

and three of the four are against Spuds, Bayern, and Liverpool

Bournemouth away and Everton at home (the 5th game) are the others

all but Bournemouth are home games as well

[Vesper 30,182]

14 hours ago, Mana said:

Sidenote: Costa only has 7 goals for Atletico in 42 appearances.   That guy has dipped tremendously.

I'm sorry but Lampard has to go. I want him gone by the end of the season. He won't be sacked until then, but I thought we genuinely had a chance of grabbing that top 4. 

Our miserable defeat to the worst United side ever, them beating us at the Bridge for the first time in PL history sealed the deal of us not getting that top 4.

that was the first EPL loss ever v Manure for us at the Bridge?

[killer1257 3,282]

1 minute ago, Vesper said:

both can be true

the game was literally stolen, but so many others were not

if Lamps loses the next 5 games, he needs to be sacked

maybe the next 4

and three of the four are against Spuds, Bayern, and Liverpool

Bournemouth away and Everton at home (the 5th game) are the others

all but Bournemouth are home games as well

Sacking Lamps will solve nothing.Only new players will solve the problem. You even said yourself that you cannot make Zouma or Willian world class. If the referees did their job right, we would have won yesterday and the story would be completely different now.

[killer1257 3,282]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

Honestly dude, if Pep is our coach right now...while we may have lost to Ole, he will NOT lose to him three times in a row like that. Pep will bench Willian and may look at the U-21 squad for replacements if needed to be. Pep would have played Giroud or bring an U-21 player for yesterday's match against United.

People have forgotten Pep is an actual coach himself, he's not just a manager like Mourinho. Pep is ruthless. If the current players aren't up to the task with his coaching, they're gone from the starting XI. Even Aguero once got benched. Bravo was an expectation. Azpi, Willian, Pedro, Bats and Alonso would never see daylight in our starting line up outside domestic cup games.

This is another reason why I'm disappointed with Lampard as well. He likes to keep his ex-teammates happy like Willian and Azpi, while selling off Lamptey. He doesn't bring up the U-21s who are not worse than certain players.

Enough with the comparisons to say "it's ok that Lampard is doing shite at the moment!" There is NO good comparison to this at the moment.

I highly doubt that Pep would bench Willian. Willian sadly is our second best winger this season and that shows how bad we are. We lost one time when referees were against us big time yesterday. In FA Cup, we played with a B-Team and I remember they gave Man United a penalty and from what I remember, that was not a penalty. We only lost one match against them fair and square and that was the first match of the season, where Lamps had couple of weeks to prepare the team.If you judge a coach by that, that is your opinion. I try to see the bigger picture.

Pep and U-21? You know that Pep said that you win nothing with youth team players just this season when people asked him about Phil Foden. Yes, Pep would have probably played Giroud. We would have lost yesterday regardless if Giroud started or not. You think that Giroud would have scored three goals yesterday? I don´t. You think that Giroud would have assisted Willian three goals yesterday? I don´t think so.

I love Lamptey, but James and Azpi were the end of Lampteys career at Chelsea. Azpi was sadly made our new captain, leader, legend last season and Lamps lets him play. I am pretty sure Pep would let him play too, because Azpi is one of the only few leaders in that team. Pep would bench James for Azpi as a RB and Emerson would play LB. Azpi would play of his captainship anyway. It is sad.

In my opinion, Anjorin should start for Mount and Broja should be ahead of Batsman. Tammy being my first striker, second Giroud and third striker Broja. 

I watch our youth team when I have some time left and from my point of view, only Anjorin and Broja are ready. Maybe also Billy G, but that is it.