Transition

[Krypt 241]

True Krypt Top four position could be in jeopardy, even the ropey cup on recent showings.....

We just need the right balance of new eager players who want to prove something, and wiley old professionals. Too many of the latter at present. (although people banging on about 'Josh' would have found him out of his depth, and pushed off the ball yesterday in all honesty)

We also need a balance of carrott and stick -too much cash carrott at the moment - some good old fashioned bollocking would not be amiss, and unfortunately I cannott see AVB doing that. The bin dippers have the twin jock nightmare of Steve Clarke and Dalgleish on their case if they under perform.

True i cant see the players worried by an AVB team talk. the only other thing that may motivate them is performance based wages but i could never see that coming into effect , plus most of them don't need the money any more.

[Superblue 6,331]

It has been a problem since Mourinho left. Every manager that has come in has tried to bring in new ideas and/or players but all of them are forced into ridiculous and unnecessary pressure by the board demanding instant results and success. So if a couple of bad results occur, the manager goes back to the tried and trusted players and formation, which is a rigid, workmanlike 4-3-3 to accommodate the likes of Lampard and Drogba.

I don't blame the managers for this, because they don't want to be sacked...I blame the board. AVB needs time and resources to rebuild this squad and I just hope Roman obliges because he is running out of good managerial options!

There are two vital components in our game which need to be focused on - Torres needs support and not left isolated, and Mata needs to be played centrally.

IMO we have looked at our best this season playing 4-2-3-1, a formation used a lot on the continent and also implemented successfully by United and City in the Premiership. Such a formation would allow Mata to operate centrally and give him licence to 'float' and provide Torres with more support further up the field.

If such a formation does not accommodate or suit Lampard, Mikel and Drogba, or a high defensive line causes the older defensive guard to struggle to adapt to like Cole and Terry then I'm afraid tough luck. The club needs to move on, because we could be mistaken for the same team as 4-5 years ago, just everybody past their prime!

[Krypt 241]

It has been a problem since Mourinho left. Every manager that has come in has tried to bring in new ideas and/or players but all of them are forced into ridiculous and unnecessary pressure by the board demanding instant results and success. So if a couple of bad results occur, the manager goes back to the tried and trusted players and formation, which is a rigid, workmanlike 4-3-3 to accommodate the likes of Lampard and Drogba.

I don't blame the managers for this, because they don't want to be sacked...I blame the board. AVB needs time and resources to rebuild this squad and I just hope Roman obliges because he is running out of good managerial options!

There are two vital components in our game which need to be focused on - Torres needs support and not left isolated, and Mata needs to be played centrally.

IMO we have looked at our best this season playing 4-2-3-1, a formation used a lot on the continent and also implemented successfully by United and City in the Premiership. Such a formation would allow Mata to operate centrally and give him licence to 'float' and provide Torres with more support further up the field.

If such a formation does not accommodate or suit Lampard, Mikel and Drogba, or a high defensive line causes the older defensive guard to struggle to adapt to like Cole and Terry then I'm afraid tough luck. The club needs to move on, because we could be mistaken for the same team as 4-5 years ago, just everybody past their prime!

I agree with the changes , AVB needs to mix things up , he cant expect to play the same players who played a different way last season to change a habit of a lifetime and suddenly start playing slick fast football. The reason we were successful was because we played in a certain way and we had the players to play that certain way , we were never out muscled in a game people were afraid of us because we would physically dominate them all game.

AVB has two choices play to our strengths or bring in players who can play his way for now the latter is not the option , so i think its back to basics for us.

[steve5221 91]

I agree with the changes , AVB needs to mix things up , he cant expect to play the same players who played a different way last season to change a habit of a lifetime and suddenly start playing slick fast football. The reason we were successful was because we played in a certain way and we had the players to play that certain way , we were never out muscled in a game people were afraid of us because we would physically dominate them all game.

AVB has two choices play to our strengths or bring in players who can play his way for now the latter is not the option , so i think its back to basics for us.

Alex HAS to come in at centre half on a regular basis to partner JT, that will rectify alot of the mistakes in defence, a settled back 4 is desperately needed..

[Ollie 4,400]

Transition, transition, transition. I'm fed up with the excuse of transition. When have we once decided to ditch transfers for a few years and asccerpt finishing 4th, 5th? We aint. We're still trying to build a squad to win things and we're still trying to buy the best players if we can. Man Utd went through transition, yet still won things. Arsenal are the only big side i've seen go through transition buy spending no money and buying nobody whilst their stadium was being paid off. We have no reason to do anything like this, we have money and we have ambition, we should NOT be in this position, fighting only for domestic cup shit.

[Krypt 241]

Transition, transition, transition. I'm fed up with the excuse of transition. When have we once decided to ditch transfers for a few years and asccerpt finishing 4th, 5th? We aint. We're still trying to build a squad to win things and we're still trying to buy the best players if we can. Man Utd went through transition, yet still won things. Arsenal are the only big side i've seen go through transition buy spending no money and buying nobody whilst their stadium was being paid off. We have no reason to do anything like this, we have money and we have ambition, we should NOT be in this position, fighting only for domestic cup shit.

I agree we have the resources to warrant challenging on all fronts , but we have took to long to get rid of the dead wood and we haven't replaced them with a younger players. When Mourniho took over here he had inherited a Hungry squad wanting to win things AVB has inherited a old squad who paper over the cracks by signing out of form forwards for 50million. he has brought a couple of gems mata and romeu but thats not enough to transfer us into a title winning side again.

Were going to have to grit and bear it and hope its only a matter of time before important changes are made and we see a new core of players for the future.

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

If you look at that list of managers -only Mourinho sticks out as one who'd have the balls to say ''you're under performing'' and even he wouldnt shout and ball 'em out.

-they need a bit of old fashioned discipline in my book, mixed with the pampering

[Superblue 6,331]

Alex HAS to come in at centre half on a regular basis to partner JT, that will rectify alot of the mistakes in defence, a settled back 4 is desperately needed..

Yes, but where does that leave Luiz?!

We have spent £21m on a 24 year old centre back with the expectation of him growing into the role and being a fixture within our backline for the next 5+ years.

This is the exact problem Chelsea managers have due to the pressure they are put under - instead of perservering with Luiz knowing (as everybody does) that he will develop into an excellent centre back for the club, AVB could be forced back into playing two centre backs in their 30's and Luiz will never realise his potential.

People cannot have it both ways. We either bring in new players and give them time to play and adapt (i.e. Ramires) or we continue to play the old guard.

I expect Luiz's performances to pick up playing alongside Brana on the right side of our defence like the second half of last season.

[Amblève. 4,995]

Time will tell. I believe that AVB has the talent to be a great coach but we have to wait atleast for the next 6 months to see if we are progressing. Progressing means we have to sell some of the older players if we really want the team to develop. I've always said Lamps, Terry and Drogs are legends, and I'll say that also in future, but for the club's future these players have to be benched like every other guy if they're not adapting to the system and not showing the efforts that are needed for the club's success. This season will be a hard one, and every single person who thought we'll be in title race this season didn't get that this season will decide about the future of Chelsea FC. I don't care if we don't win any titles this year as long as the team shows that it has a future and it's ready to step up for its own ambitions. Mourinho, Scolari, Hiddink and Anchelotti had have almost perfect squads, AVB has to deal with a squad of old superstars and very promising, young players so there's no point in saying "it's almost the same team, why don't they have success?!".

And if we, fans, don't support our coach, there's no sense in keeping him because even Roman won't resist the pressure of the fans' tattle someday even though AVB is maybe the right coach for us. We as the whole club have to show confidence and represent us as a unity. Only then there will be peace.

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

Last season should of been a transitional one. This season should of been a transitional one. Ok, when does this fucking transition end so I don't have to see my team being dominated by Charlie Adam and Lucas ?!

[steve5221 91]

Yes, but where does that leave Luiz?!

We have spent £21m on a 24 year old centre back with the expectation of him growing into the role and being a fixture within our backline for the next 5+ years.

This is the exact problem Chelsea managers have due to the pressure they are put under - instead of perservering with Luiz knowing (as everybody does) that he will develop into an excellent centre back for the club, AVB could be forced back into playing two centre backs in their 30's and Luiz will never realise his potential.

People cannot have it both ways. We either bring in new players and give them time to play and adapt (i.e. Ramires) or we continue to play the old guard.

I expect Luiz's performances to pick up playing alongside Brana on the right side of our defence like the second half of last season.

I don't see Luiz as a centre half(wrong thread I know and has been discussed many times) and I think he should be in Midfield...Alex is still 29 and JT 30 (peak ages for centre backs), also Alex is tailor made for the PL and is to much of an asset to leave on the bench...

[termninja 5,290]

Problem with our transition is the pressure on the manager. Can you imagine if AVB started Josh, Oriol and Bertrand against Wolves at home and lost? On the other hand, our old guard is nearing towards the end of their career as Chelsea players and they want to play, and for example I think Malouda and Anelka did well this season, and when they didn't they still tried hard. Sure, there were some bad decision, but I see the will and determination. Drogba tried yesterday also, but he needs to realize that he's a striker and that he needs to start shooting!

This is the price we pay for having so many managers and such a big difference in the age of players, wave of great 17-20 year old players and most of first team players being over 28.

[Superblue 6,331]

I don't see Luiz as a centre half(wrong thread I know and has been discussed many times) and I think he should be in Midfield...Alex is still 29 and JT 30 (peak ages for centre backs), also Alex is tailor made for the PL and is to much of an asset to leave on the bench...

It's easy to apply a generalised 'peak' age for players but the fact is Terry peaked 6 years ago and has been on a steady decline for the last couple of years.

I think Alex has been an unsung hero for us but his head was turned of talk moving to Juventus in the summer and he hasn't been the same either.

David Luiz has a lot of defensive flaws but he also brings a lot to the team, and his enthusiasm and determination is unquestionable which is what I want to see within a players game, even if they're having a shocker.

The problem for Luiz is he has nobody around him at this present time, with the exception perhaps of Ivanovic, who is playing anywhere near the top of their game. This makes it so difficult for Luiz to play his own natural game.

And if Luiz is to play midfield, is this at the detriment of Romeu who should be given an extended run in the side now.

[loonymcgreat 19]

There is no transition if we keep playing with the same players as we did in last 5 years. Transition will be when we'll play with Josh, Bertrand, Lukaku and other youngsters

[Krypt 241]

There is no transition if we keep playing with the same players as we did in last 5 years. Transition will be when we'll play with Josh, Bertrand, Lukaku and other youngsters

Thing is you cant just chuck these youngsters in there and hope they will do well, we need a balanced of young and talented and experienced. its finding that balance which is the hard part.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

"AVB is a fantastic manager."

- there is nothing to suggest that yet. He only had one superb season in Portugal, and in PL he is far from being fantastic.

"With right players and the exuberance of our young manager, there would be no stopping Chelsea in a season or two."

- humm

"Fergie went three seasons without winning anything in the process grooming the lethal combo of Ronaldo and Rooney and the rest is history."

- thats right. They did not win anything, but they ended in 3th, 3th and 2nd in PL, and their place in top 4 was never in jeopard, you cant say the same about our current situation and Fersgunson is a proven manager in the high level.

"Look at Mancini at Man City. The team is flying."

- City was a team that used to end up in 10th position in PL, the italian's job was pretty decent, there was no reason to sack him, and Mancini was already a proven manager in a big european league. He won Seria A when Milan had a much more expensive team.

"The games we are losing are due to individual errors."

- we are losing due to tactical erros. Our defensive system against MU was a mess, and it also happened today. Despite the initial minutes of second half, when Sturridge scored, we played really bad.

"At the moment we dont have the horses for courses. "

- so why in the hell he is trying to force his expansive and exuberant football ?

"The key is patience."

- VB is a gamble, he is not a proven manager, he is not one of the best in the world yet, the big question is, where we will end up with this patience ?

"back the manager and assume this season as one for transition. "

- the problem is that the manager himself doesnt see this season as one for transition, otherwise he would think "ok, lets build the bases for the future, lets play Josh, so he get used to the big games, lets try to make Sturridge + Torres a strong patnership in the attack". NO !, he plays Malouda and Drogba. Players that according to you will leave in the end of the season. What kind of transition is that?

If Barcelona had your attitude then they wouldn't have hired Pep Guardiola in the first place and then they wouldn't be the force that they are today. We have had Champions League winners and even a World Cup winner as the manager of our team and they have all ultimately failed to deliver. Just because they have been successful in the past is no sure fire guarantee that they will be successful at our club, as has been proven.

Lets look at the positives, AVB has a style he is trying to implement. We knew what we were getting when we paid a world record fee to buy him out of his contract at Porto, that is an attack minded coach. If we had wanted a defensive coach there is any number we could have chosen from who wouldn't have cost half as much as AVB but we didn't want one of those because, in case you have forgotten, we were painfully bland towards the end of Ancelotti's reign and we needed something to spark us into life.

AVB has clearly been hired for the long haul. As he himself said, we haven't paid a fortune to bring him in only to pay another fortune to sack him. We got Mata and Meireles, two AVB type players, now we need to build on that, we need to invest again in January and in the Summer to bring in more players that suit the kind of game AVB wants us to play. This constant chopping and changing of managers is insane and imo is the main cause of us being in such a bad position now. No manager gets enough time to see their vision through and as a result we are left with dregs of managerial regimes. No manager has had long enough to get rid of the deadwood at the club and to bring their own players in. Transition doesn't happen overnight, it is gradual but if you have different managers with different ideals coming in every 18 months you end up with the status quo rather than actual transition. Lets give AVB time to make actual change, I believe he has the personality to enforce such change and judging by the fee that Roman paid for such a young coach, he probably has the same belief in AVB.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

Sorry for multiple quoting, bit of a mis-hap.

[manpe 10,855]

"He didn't pay 15m euros (£13.2m) to get me out of Porto and another fortune to get me out of Chelsea," he said.

"It is not a question of the owner having patience. I have said we have set out to build something new at this club and the club is committed to what we are building for the future."

"There is no running away from our responsibilities," said Villas-Boas. "There is no calling this a year of transition, no calling for time to do our work."

http://news.bbc.co.u...ll/15813784.stm

That probably settles it