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Things arent going well for us but part of being a fan calls for patience with your manager and team. AVB is a fantastic manager. He is only 34 but the way he has been dictating things around at Cobham, shows that he is exactly what we needed since Mourinho. AVB has bought in Meriless and Mata and promoted Sturridge. All three have done well so far but the rest of the 7 outfield players have been passed on from Ancelotti Era out of which 5 have been playing since Mourinho's Era. Now AVB has his own ideology. He likes playing attacking/expansive football. At the moment we dont have the horses for courses. Most of the players we have are suited to the efficient football we played. But AVB is trying to force his ideology on the team. It would be foolish to expect our team play like Barcelona in the first season. But hey, you got to start somewhere. Even Mourinho got spanked 5-0 by Barcelona last season trying to play like them. Look at Mancini at Man City. The team is flying. Everyone expected him to be fired last season but Sheikh isnt as trigger happy as us. Fergie went three seasons without winning anything in the process grooming the lethal combo of Ronaldo and Rooney and the rest is history. 3 title and a champions league after that. First season is always difficult. With January and Summer Transfer, AVB can bring more players to suit his football style. With right players and the exuberance of our young manager, there would be no stopping Chelsea in a season or two. The key is patience. Patience from the fans, patience from the board and patience from the owner. The club and fans MUST understand that there HAS to be a transitional period and this season it is.

Next season, we could see players like, Kalou, Malouda, Anelka, Mikel, Drogba and dare I say Terry, leave. Thats 6 players who have been with us for last 4-5 years and who have been a part of the first 11.

We could see young, fast, sexy football playing players like Hazard, KDB and the likes coming in. We can see a new core forming.

Our Manager is the most sought after managers in the world. What he could bring to our team knows no bounds. All we need to do is back the team, back the manager and assume this season as one for transition.

I for one would be happy with a cup or two and a top 4 finish. A Champions League is a lottery. But with the amount of goals we are leaking. We will be done on the away goal rule. But come to think of it, the goals we are leaking are due to individual errors. The games we are losing are due to individual errors. The man has had ZERO luck so far. 2 offside goals and a pinball goal at OT, Terry slips at 3-3, Mikel fucks up, Terrible Refereeing at QPR does us not to mention error by Luiz to concede the penalty. You cant fault the manager for these mistakes.

So, lets lower the expectations in this transitional period. Give the man a chance. Winning 4 trophies and not losing a single game throughout the season is a feat no ordinary, no matter what league. He is Special and I hope we are patient with him.

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"AVB is a fantastic manager."

- there is nothing to suggest that yet. He only had one superb season in Portugal, and in PL he is far from being fantastic.

"With right players and the exuberance of our young manager, there would be no stopping Chelsea in a season or two."

- humm

"Fergie went three seasons without winning anything in the process grooming the lethal combo of Ronaldo and Rooney and the rest is history."

- thats right. They did not win anything, but they ended in 3th, 3th and 2nd in PL, and their place in top 4 was never in jeopard, you cant say the same about our current situation and Fersgunson is a proven manager in the high level.

"Look at Mancini at Man City. The team is flying."

- City was a team that used to end up in 10th position in PL, the italian's job was pretty decent, there was no reason to sack him, and Mancini was already a proven manager in a big european league. He won Seria A when Milan had a much more expensive team.

"The games we are losing are due to individual errors."

- we are losing due to tactical erros. Our defensive system against MU was a mess, and it also happened today. Despite the initial minutes of second half, when Sturridge scored, we played really bad.

"At the moment we dont have the horses for courses. "

- so why in the hell he is trying to force his expansive and exuberant football ?

"The key is patience."

- VB is a gamble, he is not a proven manager, he is not one of the best in the world yet, the big question is, where we will end up with this patience ?

"back the manager and assume this season as one for transition. "

- the problem is that the manager himself doesnt see this season as one for transition, otherwise he would think "ok, lets build the bases for the future, lets play Josh, so he get used to the big games, lets try to make Sturridge + Torres a strong patnership in the attack". NO !, he plays Malouda and Drogba. Players that according to you will leave in the end of the season. What kind of transition is that?

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- the problem is that the manager himself doesnt see this season as one for transition, otherwise he would think "ok, lets build the bases for the future, lets play Josh, so he get used to the big games, lets try to make Sturridge + Torres a strong patnership in the attack". NO !, he plays Malouda and Drogba. Players that according to you will leave in the end of the season. What kind of transition is that?

This x20. I will never understand why.

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If we really were entering a period of transistion, we would be releasing the older players, promoting some young players in our academy and buying new players (at least 3-4) that go straight into the first team. Unfortunatly AVB went with the fans sentiment and determination to hold on to past glories and the same players as much as possible (I remember when some on here thought the sky would fall at the thought of selling Drogba).

And like Henrique said, when Manchester United has a transitional period, they get to work immediatly and never had a top 4 place in doubt. We are facing the prospect of dropping out of the top 4 and still having the same old players - transitional my arse.

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Henrique has a point. It sorta feels like a transition period, because we all want it to be just that, but in reality transition means replacing the old with the new... apart from Sturridge and Mata, I don't see where we are doing that. He has made signings for the future, but they get rare minutes. I believe if we were in a more comfortable position, we would see more of them but now he wants to play it safe and in these situations you usually opt for proven experience. We have added to quality compared to last season, but we aren't getting the results and we look extremely shaky. The team has not reacted well to changes in tactics, it has been harder than we thought it would be. I think the real change of face will come next summer when some deadwood players will inevitebly leave and some will join... on the other hand, I thought it would happen this summer. If we fail this season, then it will be hard to persuade world class players to join next year..

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We have a lot of average players and that is what sticks out the most.

Yeah AVB has made some mistakes, but he had no fault in the two goals that was scored against us. He was definitely not Mikel who lost possession of the football which led to the first goal. Also the second goal happened on a simple long ball, Cole and Terry should have made a routine tackle.

Fact is the players are not up to the standard where went to be.

Players like Mikel, Ramires, Cole, Malouda, Drogba, Torres, and Terry are either past it or just not good enough for the level we want to be.

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1. there is nothing to suggest that yet. He only had one superb season in Portugal, and in PL he is far from being fantastic.

2. thats right. They did not win anything, but they ended in 3th, 3th and 2nd in PL, and their place in top 4 was never in jeopard, you cant say the same about our current situation and Fersgunson is a proven manager in the high level.

3. City was a team that used to end up in 10th position in PL, the italian's job was pretty decent, there was no reason to sack him, and Mancini was already a proven manager in a big european league. He won Seria A when Milan had a much more expensive team.

4. we are losing due to tactical erros. Our defensive system against MU was a mess, and it also happened today. Despite the initial minutes of second half, when Sturridge scored, we played really bad.

5. so why in the hell he is trying to force his expansive and exuberant football ?

6. VB is a gamble, he is not a proven manager, he is not one of the best in the world yet, the big question is, where we will end up with this patience ?

7. the problem is that the manager himself doesnt see this season as one for transition, otherwise he would think "ok, lets build the bases for the future, lets play Josh, so he get used to the big games, lets try to make Sturridge + Torres a strong patnership in the attack". NO !, he plays Malouda and Drogba. Players that according to you will leave in the end of the season. What kind of transition is that?

1. There is ALOT to suggest AVB is a Fantastic Manager. The way we played with 9 men away at QPR was a tactical master peice. The way we played against Everton away, to grab a victory. Thats a place we always had trouble winning. It was almost Mourinho'esq

2. So? We havent finished outside top 4 have we? Last season we had idiots saying we would end up outside top 6 and we got 2nd. There are 6 teams and anyone could beat anyone and we can still finish top 4. Few bad results and every one starts panicking. How can you say their place was never in jeopardy specially when they finish 3rd twice in a row. I am sure at some points man Utd fans would have been thinking what you are thinking now.

3. He won Serie'A against an OLD Milan team and thanks to the fixing scandal. He is a good manager. But you miss the point here. Patience IS the key. Ancelotti won Champions League and you still wanted him out. Makes me think, you will only support a manager who makes us win all the time. Transition, Patience are words missing in your dictionary.

4. Against Man Utd we lost because of TWO offside Goals. These are NO tactical errors. Mikel taking 4 touches outside the box is not a tactical error, Luiz shoving a player in the box without being close to the ball isnt a tactical error. Terry slipping after a bad back pass from Malouda isnt a tactical error. Fucked up Refereeing at QPR isnt a Tactical Error.

5. Because, he has an ideology. Someone has to start somewhere. Ancelotti tried to play efficiently with these players last season, and it didnt work. something need to change. These players are past it. Give the guy a break.

6. True, but not proven? you must be joking. He earned his stripes by winning the quadruple. What has proven manager in Scolari given to this club? AVB is young and with the way we played at QPR and Everton, I am sure, if given time he will make us unstoppable.

Regarding Patience, thats the point. you wont get your answers now as to where you'd end. Hence have Patience....

7. I agree, but Josh is too young to be thrown in the premier league. Even Wilshere went to Bolton before regularly starting at Arsenal. He does play Sturridge often, he has been playing Torres, Studge Mata combo too. Romeu has been playing champions League and Cup games. The fact is that the players he has trusted the most are shining for example: mata, meireles, Studge and romeu. If he can bring in more young players to replace Malouda and Drogba, we will see better football. The irony is that the players making us suffer are the ones from Mourinho Era in Terry, Mikel, Kalou, Malouda, Drogba. But who do you think we can replace them with? If we keep playing josh and Lukaku, we wouldnt even end up in top 6.

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You really have to wonder how much the old guard has truly bought into AVB's regime. And I wonder who will be leading the charge to RA's door if there are a few more losses before Xmas. I know it wasn't realistic at the time but I was one of those that preferred a clean slate in the summer and thought a couple or three of the old guard should have gone. It was psychologically necessary and not one left. Not one.

If the title is a faint hope, then let's focus on players who will be around in 2012-13, Mata, Torres, Sturridge, Meireles, Luiz. How many games have we have seen Mata, Torres, Meireles and Luiz start together?

I know Torres has been infuriatingly inconsistent this season. Having said I can think of at least 4 MOTM games from him this season. Drogba as great as he has been in prior seasons isn't the future. Can we find one great performance this season?

Start Mata, Torres, Meireles and Luiz for every league and CL game from now until January. Chelsea will lose some of those games. Torres will be poor for some of them. Or he could have a run of a few games like he did from Bayer Leverkusen to Genk. But at least he's capable of doing that. I don't see Drogba doing it anymore. Throw Sturridge, Romeu and maybe Josh in the mix too. Let's see what they can develop. But let's give them a run. And let's try not to blow a gasket because Luiz has one bad game. Or if Torres doesn't score for 2 games.

Am I being hypocritical in advocating patience? Logically it makes sense to give time for the future. Why give that time to the past?

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"AVB is a fantastic manager and most sorted out": I doubt it for now but i do believe that he is very talented and it is one of the intelligent gambles taken by us. He has definitely had his moments up till now, some good some not so good and but i believe he is doing the same things that all his predecessor have done, going for results wanting to show that he can pull off miracles. IMO he is just trying too much, i believe he has to rethink his strategy. Having said that i would hope he stays at Chelsea for more years to built his team because we all are tried of the chopping and changing that happens every season.

Transition: It a word with different meaning at Chelsea i guess. At Chelsea, transition is all about getting a new manager because the actual meaning of it i.e. moving from old to new doesnt seem happening here. We should had been in this mode quite some time back but .....

I m not sure getting buying new players from outside season after season is going to serve our purpose then what abt our youth? We got some real good talent within, but no one wants to try them out because every manager who comes in is so dependent on Roman's money that they know he would shed out for them. It is just not the manager i guess we as fans are also dependent on Roman to get new players every season.

I would rest the likes of Terry, Lampard, Cole, Drogba and get the kids come in every 2 games because thats how they are going to learn and thats how we are going to know what are they made of.

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Did anyone really expect him to kick out the old guard this summer? I mean seriously?

As it is we employed him late into summer, he then said he needed time to evaluate the squad. What, a pre-season tour is enough to get a good valuation? As far as he's concerned, this was the same time that won back-to-back titles between 05-07. After 12 games people are saying they doubt his credentials? Sorry, so were Chelsea, Liverpool, Roma ect all mistaken in his potential?

If he was at any other club everyone would cry he needs time. Here at Chelsea what happens? The bookies slash the odds on him to become the first managerial casualty of this season -_-

Let's just wait. Whoever expected this season to be like Carlo's debut or Mourinho's was misguided from the start! Everyone here agreed it would be hard for him to come in and mark his style at authority over the old guard, but he couldn't exactly expel them all and buy a new team! As it was City was taking everyone left-right-centre. We secured Mata & Meireles, he said he'd work with Torres et al. He's given the "old guard" their chance, can we really blame him for that?

One of Carlo's big mistakes was not replacing the talent he lost the summer after his first season. Let's be fair on André and see what he does in the next 12months shall we? Just because we can't see progress now doesn't mean Villas-Boas is sitting back, relaxing with the compensation package glaring into his eyes.

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@LDN we never expected him to kick out the old guard and he never so we cant call this season a transition because most of the players who have such a holding over the club are still here. I admit i never wanted to see Drogba leave but i have to admit we have to do it for the greater good because he actually played well yesterday and that will kick Torres's confidence that he can't even displace a 33 year old targetman.

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"AVB is a fantastic manager."

- there is nothing to suggest that yet. He only had one superb season in Portugal, and in PL he is far from being fantastic.

"With right players and the exuberance of our young manager, there would be no stopping Chelsea in a season or two."

- humm

"Fergie went three seasons without winning anything in the process grooming the lethal combo of Ronaldo and Rooney and the rest is history."

- thats right. They did not win anything, but they ended in 3th, 3th and 2nd in PL, and their place in top 4 was never in jeopard, you cant say the same about our current situation and Fersgunson is a proven manager in the high level.

"Look at Mancini at Man City. The team is flying."

- City was a team that used to end up in 10th position in PL, the italian's job was pretty decent, there was no reason to sack him, and Mancini was already a proven manager in a big european league. He won Seria A when Milan had a much more expensive team.

"The games we are losing are due to individual errors."

- we are losing due to tactical erros. Our defensive system against MU was a mess, and it also happened today. Despite the initial minutes of second half, when Sturridge scored, we played really bad.

"At the moment we dont have the horses for courses. "

- so why in the hell he is trying to force his expansive and exuberant football ?

"The key is patience."

- VB is a gamble, he is not a proven manager, he is not one of the best in the world yet, the big question is, where we will end up with this patience ?

"back the manager and assume this season as one for transition. "

- the problem is that the manager himself doesnt see this season as one for transition, otherwise he would think "ok, lets build the bases for the future, lets play Josh, so he get used to the big games, lets try to make Sturridge + Torres a strong patnership in the attack". NO !, he plays Malouda and Drogba. Players that according to you will leave in the end of the season. What kind of transition is that?

Never really ever agreed with what you say. But I couldn't have put it better myself. As it stands, we're shit and we know we are.

We're not even in transitional mode at the minute, that won't begin until the deadwood (Terry included) is axed from the squad.

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If Man Ud had lost to Arsenal and Liverpool in the manner that we did , guaranteed they would have been shut in the dressing room for 1 hour afterwards with a semi drunken Scot giving the playesr a right dressing down.

AVB nice bloke, but with the old guard of multimillionaires seemingly drifting from one game to another, not a lot will change. you need more young hungry players, in the balance.

Ufortunately I can see another multi-million pound pay off looming, if things do not improve, and the Russian way of doing business to continue

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If Man Ud had lost to Arsenal and Liverpool in the manner that we did , guaranteed they would have been shut in the dressing room for 1 hour afterwards with a semi drunken Scot giving the playesr a right dressing down.

AVB nice bloke, but with the old guard of multimillionaires seemingly drifting from one game to another, not a lot will change. you need more young hungry players, in the balance.

Ufortunately I can see another multi-million pound pay off looming, if things do not improve, and the Russian way of doing business to continue

Exactly the old guard must be just counting there pennies until retirement what do they have to prove ? we need some players who want to fight for the shirt and are hungry for success. just like we have when Mourniho took over , none of these players had lifted a PL trophy this helped urge them on to grab the opportunity.

Man City have gone out and brought fresh younger players who will do the same. All teams have to change i just feel we have left it too late we waited too long in the summer to decide who stays and who goes , i understand we had a new manager who had to assess the squad.

i don't mind winning nothing this season as long as we finish in the top 4 without this i think we will struggle to turn around what used to be a scary team to play.

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Tranistion, lack of luck, bad referee decisions call it what you like....the fact remains that EVERY time a team attacks us at stamford bridge, they look like scoring a goal.....we had the best defence last year, so this is not acceptable and is due to AVB's style of football.....

AVB needs to implement his plan SLOWLY over time and use the strengths of the players he has at his disposal until he can get rid of them and bring in his own players...

what the hell was he doing yesterday at the start of the game, implementing a high line defence with the aim of hitting long balls to Drogba??..if your gonna play long ball then keep the defence tight and stable..

As for big new players in January forget it, we dont have the dough to splash and keep within the new rules without selling first. There is also the little problem of already having the maximum number of foreign players in the squad over 21 ....

I really do fear for us this year, Liverpool are not a good side but they have shown all you have to do to win against us, is to be phyiscal in the centre of the park, play some pace up front and wait for your chances on the counter..It is only a matter of time before the lesser clubs adopt this gameplan.

All is not lost as the season still has a long way to go, but the pressure on us now is huge and we have no more margin for error, AVB has had his chances experimenting and now needs to concentrate on WINNING football..

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This is how the dictionary defines transition :

passage from one state, stage, subject, or place to another

So what you're seeing now at Chelsea is not transition. Merely putting Mata in a team of 7 30+ year olds doesn't constitute a shift of any relevance. 7! No top team in Europe does that, yet we continue to stick with the old and hope for the best.

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Exactly the old guard must be just counting there pennies until retirement what do they have to prove ? we need some players who want to fight for the shirt and are hungry for success. just like we have when Mourniho took over , none of these players had lifted a PL trophy this helped urge them on to grab the opportunity.

Man City have gone out and brought fresh younger players who will do the same. All teams have to change i just feel we have left it too late we waited too long in the summer to decide who stays and who goes , i understand we had a new manager who had to assess the squad.

i don't mind winning nothing this season as long as we finish in the top 4 without this i think we will struggle to turn around what used to be a scary team to play.

True Krypt Top four position could be in jeopardy, even the ropey cup on recent showings.....

We just need the right balance of new eager players who want to prove something, and wiley old professionals. Too many of the latter at present. (although people banging on about 'Josh' would have found him out of his depth, and pushed off the ball yesterday in all honesty)

We also need a balance of carrott and stick -too much cash carrott at the moment - some good old fashioned bollocking would not be amiss, and unfortunately I cannott see AVB doing that. The bin dippers have the twin jock nightmare of Steve Clarke and Dalgleish on their case if they under perform.

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True Krypt Top four position could be in jeopardy, even the ropey cup on recent showings.....

We just need the right balance of new eager players who want to prove something, and wiley old professionals. Too many of the latter at present. (although people banging on about 'Josh' would have found him out of his depth, and pushed off the ball yesterday in all honesty)

We also need a balance of carrott and stick -too much cash carrott at the moment - some good old fashioned bollocking would not be amiss, and unfortunately I cannott see AVB doing that. The bin dippers have the twin jock nightmare of Steve Clarke and Dalgleish on their case if they under perform.

True i cant see the players worried by an AVB team talk. the only other thing that may motivate them is performance based wages but i could never see that coming into effect , plus most of them don't need the money any more.

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It has been a problem since Mourinho left. Every manager that has come in has tried to bring in new ideas and/or players but all of them are forced into ridiculous and unnecessary pressure by the board demanding instant results and success. So if a couple of bad results occur, the manager goes back to the tried and trusted players and formation, which is a rigid, workmanlike 4-3-3 to accommodate the likes of Lampard and Drogba.

I don't blame the managers for this, because they don't want to be sacked...I blame the board. AVB needs time and resources to rebuild this squad and I just hope Roman obliges because he is running out of good managerial options!

There are two vital components in our game which need to be focused on - Torres needs support and not left isolated, and Mata needs to be played centrally.

IMO we have looked at our best this season playing 4-2-3-1, a formation used a lot on the continent and also implemented successfully by United and City in the Premiership. Such a formation would allow Mata to operate centrally and give him licence to 'float' and provide Torres with more support further up the field.

If such a formation does not accommodate or suit Lampard, Mikel and Drogba, or a high defensive line causes the older defensive guard to struggle to adapt to like Cole and Terry then I'm afraid tough luck. The club needs to move on, because we could be mistaken for the same team as 4-5 years ago, just everybody past their prime!

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