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We are talking about facts hey? :blue scalf:

Okay sorry it took me some time to get back to you, had work and stuff. Nonetheless good stuff there. As per Israel didn't existed in 1940's is true. But they did existed in that land centuries ago before they was exile by different empires. Anyhow, that whole land thing is just a mess. What matters at this point is what is happening now and obviously people want a stop to it. Was reading this article in the FT and will highlight some things that I found interesting: Benjamin Netanyahu, prime minister, hinted Israel might be willing to relax its seven-year-old economic blockade of Gaza under certain conditions. In a phone call on Sunday, US President Barack Obama told Mr Netanyahu he wanted to see an “immediate, unconditional humanitarian ceasefire”. He told the Israeli prime minister that one of the objectives of a ceasefire would be to allow “Palestinians in Gaza to lead normal lives” but added that any long-term solution to the conflict included “the disarmament of terrorist groups and the demilitarisation of Gaza” Earlier in the day, Mr Netanyahu appeared on a number of US Sunday television shows to make the case that Israel was not blocking an end to the conflict. “We have accepted five ceasefires, acted upon them. Hamas has rejected every single one of them,” he told NBC. “We use missiles to protect our people, they use people to protect their missiles.” Mr Netanyahu earlier told CBS’s “Face the Nation” that “economic and social relief” might be provided for the people of Gaza if Hamas and other militant groups agreed to demilitarise. Aid organisations and political analysts have long argued that social deprivation and restrictions on trade and movement have provided a fertile breeding ground for radical politics. Israel’s military temporarily interrupted its assault on Gaza for a humanitarian pause on Saturday that allowed Palestinians to return home and retrieve possessions in the hardest-hit areas along the border. Mr Netanyahu’s 10-member security cabinet agreed to extend the humanitarian lull from midnight Saturday for another day. But Hamas rejected the ceasefire, and resumed firing rockets into Israel overnight, killing an Israeli soldier in a border area in a mortar attack and bringing total Israeli military dead in the operation to 43. Israel then resumed shelling Gaza at about 10am on Sunday. The ceasefire extension offered by Israel excluded the clearing of Gaza’s tunnels. Later in the day, Gaza’s militant factions – of which Hamas is the biggest – belatedly agreed a 24-hour humanitarian truce to coincide with Eid-al-Fitr, the Muslim holiday that marks the end of Ramadan, but Israel rejected it. http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/a064eeca-159b-11e4-ae2e-00144feabdc0.html#slide0 The tunnels are the main reason for Israel’s ground incursion into Gaza, which was launched on July 17 after a 10-day bombing campaign. The Israeli government accuses Hamas of using the tunnels to launch attacks inside its territory and to store and launch rockets. ----------------------------------------So what I got from the article? The same thing I been saying. If I'm saying it and the leader of Israel is saying the same thing, but yet you don't believe him because hes a liar then there's a fundamental problem. Furthermore I find it interesting that the leader said he gave them not once, but 5 chances to ceasefire but Hamas rejected them all. And now on a Muslim holiday Hamas wanted to do it and Israel didn't consent....their fault on that for not taking those other 5 chances! But I think the most important thing is this what the leader is asking:if Hamas and other militant groups agreed to demilitarize Well that's what I been saying from the beginning. I will not support a nation of terrorist no matter what circumstances you might bring. I don't care about the past, how much land they took and what not. Terrorism is terrorism. The Nazi Germany tried to wipe the Jews out and they failed. But did the Jews strike back at Germany? No. So if Palestine does this, they demilitarize then the world will hold Israel to it's word.

That's the difference between a South America nation and a middle east nation. Countries took land from other countries. Hostility form and eventually peace treaty signed. And a lot has to do with our culture and religion. We have a lot of in common. Israel peace treaty with an Islamic nation, say Iran who at times called Israel the little Satan and USA the big Satan would be a disaster. Especially when some of its leader have called for the anhilation of Israel. Culture wise and their religion where they tend to have a lot of radical Islamic makes for a nightmare.

Because they believe that is the easiest way to resolve this mess. But in truth is like making a pact with the devil. It will work for 3 years or so and then it goes all to hell. I think as you said Israel want peace more then anything, but there's a lot of hate toward them that won't go away with 4 years of a treaty.

It condems Israel cause USA was trying to get a peace agreement. But as the paragraph said, it failed to address the underlying problem of Palestinian cross-border attacks. So the whole time I see Israel waiting and Palestinians militia attacking Israel. That doesn't sound like a nation that wants peace with Israel.

Okay so the west point of view is in that link you send me right? Fair enough. This is what I read there: However, U.S. efforts to preserve the regional balance of power were soon undermined by Fatah and other Palestinian guerilla organizations, which began attacking targets inside Israel. The Johnson administration tried to intercede with Fatahs Syrian patrons and to prevent Israeli retaliation against Jordan, from which most Palestinian raids were launched. U.S. officials worried that Israeli reprisals could undermine Jordans King Hussein, who had secretly agreed to keep Jordans strategically crucial West Bank a buffer zone. In November 1966, when the Israelis attacked the West Bank town of Samu , the Johnson administration voted for a United Nations Resolution condemning Israel, admonished Israeli officials, and authorized an emergency airlift of military equipment to Jordan. Here I clearly read that militia from Palestinian located in Jordan attack Israel..... Well what is that about then? Nothing?

Yeah that's what I hear from that side of the table. And then we have the other side that doesn't like Israel and hence they perceived it with a different eye. There's two different views and someone is lying. Per Ecuador, Perú took some of our land but we don't become a terrorist organization to get our territory back.

So this is the info I got per six day war: According to all the military analysts and pundits, it was to be a lopsided match. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) consisted of 275,000 troops, compared to the 456,000 soldiers of the combined Iraqi, Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian armies. The united Arab forces also had a decided edge with regards to weaponry and military equipment: they boasted more than double the amount of tanks, and close to four times the amount of combat aircraft. The three-week period preceding the Six-Day War was one of dread, shock and fright for the residents of the Holy Land. http://m.chabad.org/multimedia/timeline_cdo/aid/525341/jewish/Introduction.htm What I heard in the past about this conflict it's the same that this site report. So then tell me if what I have said in the past is wrong?

What point? That Israel gone to war against terrorism?

Well when you hijacked a bus I'm supposed to let it slide? When the country is a heaven for terrorist organization is that supposed to be OK? I ask why does Israel do this? And all I keep seeing is that they get provoke into it by terrorist act. See it would be a genocide if Israel came and bomb my country. My country that has done nothing or its a heaven for terrorist organization. They are going to war like USA at Afghanistan, and in a war environment casualties happen.

Because you mix fact with things that are one sided. Like this: the hijacking of bus 300 in the seventies out of protest- where the palestinian hijackers were arrested and afterwards brutally killed in could blood) You want me to side with hijackers? No matter what the reason is, when you hijack a bus your a criminal. There's nothing peaceful about that.

Like I said Ecuador was bigger. Something a long these lines: I meant that because of this war in which different nations came against Israel, it actually expanded their borders. Is that not right?

If I'm not mistaken, the plan that Israel acquired further land after getting there was after a war that they had against other nations. The 6th day war or whatever it was. They came against Israel a couple of nations and they lost. In that process they lost lands. Again you keep bringing me such a one sided argument. I want to hear both sides as well.

Ecuador was more bigger. Brazil is one of the country in South America that has taken more land from many nations. Ecuador and Uruguay are the two countries that have been screwed the most over the years relative to land being taken away.

Yeah like that. But the recent conflict of modernity has been with Peru.

Yes you guys did in the past

It seems like you and everyone keeps coming back to one gigantic point that I really have not talked about. That's that Israel came and took possession of Palestinian land all from 1948. Now if I'm not mistaken wasn't the major powers after world War 2 took that land and gave it to Israel? Second taking land from another country has happened many times in my country of Ecuador. Peru has robbed land from us, Brazil as well. Yet we don't go to Peru and Brazil becoming a terrorist organization. So land itself just won't justify anything for me. It has to be how the people of Palestine has acted and Israel against each other. Here is when I need more information. But not just from Palestinian but from Israel. Because all I hear is that Israel did that and this. Well I need to know to hear the other side and see what's what. Like I believe Hamas is dirty and uses school, hospital and un building to fire rockets from. So Israel has no choice there. So in every argument and point you bring I want to hear the other side as well. In conclusion the land argument is not enough for me to say, hey I'm going to side with this terrorist organization....

So because of that then Palestinian nation is allowed to create terrorist organization? I should be worried now that native Americans might do the same? Not making a distinction, I'm saying that Palestinian nation has no sovereign over itself when it let's a terrorist organization run free and wild. Is just a heaven for terrorist.

So they are no country but a terrorist organization affiliate as I said. And because of that there will never be peace till the terrorists threat is eliminated.

Yes but Palestinian nation have no control over them. Hamas attack Israel. See it would be different is Israel attack say Belgium. A country with no terrorist affiliation or that has harm them. Here Hamas attack but does Palestinian nation do anything about it? So logic course is to go to war against terrorism.

So here's the thing, Israel gets hit with war crimes just like usa. It's find and dandy and some people will pay for that, like soldiers and what not. But a nation that has no control of themselves like Palestinian nation that is run by a terrorist organization they will never fall under that. Because a terrorist organization does not fall under any jurisdiction.

So no evidence against it or for it. Then that doesn't solve our issues. Now here see this, the problem I have here is that you think Israel is enjoying this. Israel for a long time tried to negotiate with a state that is being backed by a terrorist organization. That was and always will be a lost cause. I don't think nobody wants to deal with Palestinian nation either. I mean if the world cared they would have sent the military to get rid of Hamas. Instead they let it continue there and keep attacking Israel. So if the Palestinian nation does not take action against Hamas then who will?

No not really, because it still left me with the biggest question I had from the beginning. Is Hamas using hospital, un refuge and school to fire rockets from? Tell me, have in the past terrorist organization used any means necessary to get what they wanted? The biggest mistake I think is the world thinks that any peace can come when dealing with Palestinian nation. Because Hamas is a terrorist organization and one thing we know is that we don't negotiate with terrorist. Per usa yes we all know that Iraq was all a hoax and fabricated. But was using it as an example being the last big war from an advanced country in which casualties happen. That being said I still find it hard that Israel would target such building if it wasn't for this thing I asked.

Yes people dying is a byproduct of any war. Study past war men. It has happened in many wars that usa has been, in major conflicts of European nations and what not. Israel is at war with Hamas. Palestinian is lost its past when they sided with a terrorist organization. Israel would never have enter Gaza if it wasn't for this terrorist organization constantly firing rockets their way. Israel protects itself and has gone to war with Hamas. Which should have happened a long time ago. The problem will be if they don't completely get rid of Hamas because all these casualties would have been for nothing.

The rocket by the beach is just a byproduct of the conflict. If you knew about the deaths that happened in the Iraq conflict when usa was there you wouldn't bring such things. Is not like the country meant it. When you go to war you will get these types of casualties. Moreover the Palestinian state doesn't exist. It doesn't exist because when you side yourself with a terrorist organization your no longer in control of your sovereign.