Cesc Fàbregas

[lionsden 4,689]

For me t

modric is better than fabregas in dribbling(especially beating one man and making a pass) and defending...but everything else cesc is better....

I disagree. Modric is also better at retaining possession (very few players do this better than him), shooting. decision making is equal.

Vision, long range passing and scoring is the only areas where Cesc excel and that's not by much except for scoring.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

modric is better than fabregas in dribbling(especially beating one man and making a pass) and defending...in everything else cesc is better....

This is the accurate explanation of the argument. Now can we stop talking about modric?

[Nike 373]

TBH, I'm not really impressed with Cesc as one of the pivot players nor do I think he is a pivot player. In the City game, Chelsea was completely overruned in the midfield and at a point of time the possession was like 80-20 city.... Neither Cesc nor matic have the speed to catch up in the counter, which I think will be Chelsea's downfall in the champions league, not so much in the epl title, since most cms in this league aren't that good...

Arsenal really would of been a good matchup, but half their team is injured and arteta-jack arent really a great combo. (its ashame that diaby was injury prone, because he would of been one of the best dm/cms in the league).

Also, like Mata, but not as much, Cesc is kind of a nonexistent defender. People go pass him as if he is not even there. When chelsea's faces good teams, I kind of wanna see how Jose /Cesc do in those situations...

[DanishBlue 426]

You just play Ramires with Matic and Cesc when facing good teams. No problem.

[LAB 1,030]

Weird... i thought Cesc proved everything that was left to be proven back in the CIty game.

[communicate 2,703]

TBH, I'm not really impressed with Cesc as one of the pivot players nor do I think he is a pivot player. In the City game, Chelsea was completely overruned in the midfield and at a point of time the possession was like 80-20 city.... Neither Cesc nor matic have the speed to catch up in the counter, which I think will be Chelsea's downfall in the champions league, not so much in the epl title, since most cms in this league aren't that good...

Arsenal really would of been a good matchup, but half their team is injured and arteta-jack arent really a great combo. (its ashame that diaby was injury prone, because he would of been one of the best dm/cms in the league).

Also, like Mata, but not as much, Cesc is kind of a nonexistent defender. People go pass him as if he is not even there. When chelsea's faces good teams, I kind of wanna see how Jose /Cesc do in those situations...

It has nothing of being overrun. You just need to see the way we setup, we drop deep and and don't press. There is no way you will possesion battle playing that system.

[communicate 2,703]

It's laughable isn't it. It's also worth noting that Modric is significantly better tactically and has the technical ability to fit into any team in the world while fabregas failed to hack it at Barca. He struggled with their posession game as he lacked the ability to retain posession in tight spaces like Xavi,Iniesta and that's one of Modric's key strength. In a nutshell Modric can do everything fabregas can do and then more. Haven't said that, Cesc has better vision and passing range.

It all come down to the system. Under Ancelotti 4-3-3 Modric flourish because that is his best position whereas in barcelona fabregas best position is iniesta position.

I personally don't care which one is better because Fabregas has been brilliant for us.

[Barbara 15,149]

Arsene Wenger believes Cesc Fabregas agreed Chelsea switch 'a long time ago':

That would explain a few things, actually. But it also means either Wenger is lying or Jose and Cesc twisted the facts a little. Or a lot.

Fabregas told a Spanish journo that he sent texts for Arsene's birthdays and for his 1000th match ahead of Arsenal and that he's never received any from Arsene. The only conclusion I can come from that is that Arsene isn't very close to his ex-players. He says he believes the deal was done a long time ago. That makes no sense. José didn't hide from anyone he had a striker in mind in January. Diego Costa had the stirring interview where he was taken out of context but he did say he felt somewhat bad for scoring against us in the UCL SF when he knew he was coming here in a couple of months.

Why would Cesc and Mourinho lie about when they talked? Mourinho wouldn't have a problem, it's been widely known that Barcelona didn't want to keep Cesc and Cesc admitted he made the decision to leave Barcelona earlier in the year (is in the same Spanish interview he said he sent texts to Arsene and never received any). I think Arsene is making assumptions - he's even using words that support conjecturing instead of facts and I particularly wouldn't trust him.

I think bottom line is that Cesc wanted to go back to Arsenal, they rejected him and now Arsene is trying to save face saying this decision has been taken by Cesc a long time ago, as if when he approached Arsenal it was more about getting them to release him from the buy back clause rather than check if they were interested or not. Whatever his reasons are, he's conjecturing, the chosen words support this as what he thinks happened. For us, it may even be one more thing to rile gooners up if we assume Cesc has always wanted us. But I don't feel that's what happened, and like Arsene, I'm conjecturing too, except he has much more information than I do.

edit: Also the Guardian interview (I assume both articles were made based on quotes from the same press conference), implies exactly the opposite, although they also use the same 'early in 2014 decision' part:

Arsène Wenger: Cesc Fàbregas wanted to rejoin Arsenal before Chelsea move

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Fabregas told a Spanish journo that he sent texts for Arsene's birthdays and for his 1000th match ahead of Arsenal and that he's never received any from Arsene. The only conclusion I can come from that is that Arsene isn't very close to his ex-players. He says he believes the deal was done a long time ago. That makes no sense. José didn't hide from anyone he had a striker in mind in January. Diego Costa had the stirring interview where he was taken out of context but he did say he felt somewhat bad for scoring against us in the UCL SF when he knew he was coming here in a couple of months.

Why would Cesc and Mourinho lie about when they talked? Mourinho wouldn't have a problem, it's been widely known that Barcelona didn't want to keep Cesc and Cesc admitted he made the decision to leave Barcelona earlier in the year (is in the same Spanish interview he said he sent texts to Arsene and never received any). I think Arsene is making assumptions - he's even using words that support conjecturing instead of facts and I particularly wouldn't trust him.

I think bottom line is that Cesc wanted to go back to Arsenal, they rejected him and now Arsene is trying to save face saying this decision has been taken by Cesc a long time ago, as if when he approached Arsenal it was more about getting them to release him from the buy back clause rather than check if they were interested or not. Whatever his reasons are, he's conjecturing, the chosen words support this as what he thinks happened. For us, it may even be one more thing to rile gooners up if we assume Cesc has always wanted us. But I don't feel that's what happened, and like Arsene, I'm conjecturing too, except he has much more information than I do.

edit: Also the Guardian interview (I assume both articles were made based on quotes from the same press conference), implies exactly the opposite, although they also use the same 'early in 2014 decision' part:

Arsène Wenger: Cesc Fàbregas wanted to rejoin Arsenal before Chelsea move

There might be plenty of reasons. It doesn't really look good when a player negotiates with another club during the season, especially when said club is an "enemy" of both Barcelona and Arsenal. Keep in mind his girlfriend and little daughter live in London, so he probably wanted to leave for a long while, not just after losing the title. The swiftness of Cesc's transfer to us is quite odd, tbh. Wouldn't be surprised if we started negotiations as early as March.

Personally, I think both Wenger and Cesc are just trying to put most of the blame on each other.

As for the Guardian's headline, it just shows that any interview is a matter of interpretation and choosing what sells. It's the same interview and Wenger is merely answering the question whether he thinks Arsenal would have been Cesc's first choice. The way he answered, I'm not sure he even understood the question. "Certainly, yes. I don't know, you know. I don’t want to make a big story of that because you have to accept that... that once he moved away from us, it was the first separation that was difficult for us. After he went to Barcelona, he can go anywhere. I personally believe that deal was done a long time ago, early 2014, and all the other speculation is just made up." The answer doesn't really match the question.

Here's the video. Wenger's opinion, to sum it up: ultimately it was Cesc's decision to move to Chelsea, but Arsenal didn't need him anyway, so they were never in contention.

[bababoom 4,478]

Cesc Fabregas has elevated himself into an elite group of footballers and will be the architect of Chelsea's success

In Cesc Fabregas, Chelsea have a player who is not just a provider or a goalscorer but a midfield architect comparable to the likes of Pirlo, Scholes and Xavi

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/players/cesc-fabregas/11139632/Cesc-Fabregas-has-elevated-himself-into-an-elite-group-of-footballers-and-will-be-the-architect-of-Chelseas-success.html

Garry Neville' article about Fabregas, fantastic read.

[DYC. 7,542]

Cesc Fabregas has elevated himself into an elite group of footballers and will be the architect of Chelsea's success

In Cesc Fabregas, Chelsea have a player who is not just a provider or a goalscorer but a midfield architect comparable to the likes of Pirlo, Scholes and Xavi

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/players/cesc-fabregas/11139632/Cesc-Fabregas-has-elevated-himself-into-an-elite-group-of-footballers-and-will-be-the-architect-of-Chelseas-success.html

Garry Neville' article about Fabregas, fantastic read.

Thanks for posting this.

I love hearing/reading Neville talk about football. The likes of Pirlo, Xavi etc. and players of that type have an influence on matches that can't be meassured by stats. But they are invaluable.

[Barbara 15,149]

There might be plenty of reasons. It doesn't really look good when a player negotiates with another club during the season, especially when said club is an "enemy" of both Barcelona and Arsenal. Keep in mind his girlfriend and little daughter live in London, so he probably wanted to leave for a long while, not just after losing the title. The swiftness of Cesc's transfer to us is quite odd, tbh. Wouldn't be surprised if we started negotiations as early as March.

Personally, I think both Wenger and Cesc are just trying to put most of the blame on each other.

As for the Guardian's headline, it just shows that any interview is a matter of interpretation and choosing what sells. It's the same interview and Wenger is merely answering the question whether he thinks Arsenal would have been Cesc's first choice. The way he answered, I'm not sure he even understood the question. "Certainly, yes. I don't know, you know. I don’t want to make a big story of that because you have to accept that... that once he moved away from us, it was the first separation that was difficult for us. After he went to Barcelona, he can go anywhere. I personally believe that deal was done a long time ago, early 2014, and all the other speculation is just made up." The answer doesn't really match the question.

Here's the video. Wenger's opinion, to sum it up: ultimately it was Cesc's decision to move to Chelsea, but Arsenal didn't need him anyway, so they were never in contention.

Mourinho and Costa had no qualms admitting they negotiated and had a verbal agreement as early as january... Cesc admitted he only decided about leaving Barça at April. Maybe Barça decided it earlier, but the player made the decision only in April.

If Mourinho had no problem admitting he negotiated a player with a team he faced later in UCL, if Costa had no problem admitting it was weird to score against his future club, what could possible be reason enough for Mourinho AND Cesc come up with a total different story?

I'm not saying Mourinho doesn't lie, he's lied many times before. It's just that this is such a non-issue that makes no sense to lie about it. The only one interested to make things look different from the truth is Arsene as his team is clearly struggling in midfield... His interview is contradictory. He says Cesc wanted to go back to Arsenal, he says Cesc decided to go to Chelsea before he even spoke to Arsenal. Both quotes from the same interview. Am I the only one to think one contradicts the other? How come he wanted to come back to Arsenal if he's made a decision about Chelsea before he contacted Arsenal? As I said, he's the one who has to save face and therefore have reasons to lie. Mourinho did nothing wrong by contacting Barça, Cesc did nothing wrong by deciding to go to Chelsea. Time will tell if Arsenal didn't make a mistake by letting Fabregas go (right now they'd need him, they know they have a bunch of players prone to injuries...). Clubs negotiate with players' agents while they're still under contract all the time. Actually that's what happens most of the time, it's rare for a (long) contract to run out and then the player move on a free transfer, like Lewa to Bayern. So of course conversations start during the season...

Also, I don't think Barcelona, Cesc and anyone else involved see Chelsea as the enemy. Maybe the bitter fans yes, but not to the extend they'd be offended by Cesc coming here. You said it yourself many, many times that neither Barcelona nor the fans were happy with Fabregas there. Why would any of them care if he came here? I think they wouldn't even care much if he transferred to another team in Spain, let alone in England.

After one of the many Cesc interviews I pointed out that he's never said he contacted Arsenal because he wanted to go there. It was always something along the lines 'they had a decision to make', 'I had to go through them first'. He never said he looked the club to come back there, but just that he went to them to get the authorization he needed to transfer somewhere else. As they had the buy-back clause regardless where he wanted to go, he had to know if Arsenal would make use of the clause or not... It's been very clear to me he didn't want to come back, that he wanted to go somewhere more competitive. Maybe that's why Arsene is convinced he wanted to go to Chelsea. Everyone knows winning titles at Arsenal is once in a blue moon...

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Mourinho and Costa had no qualms admitting they negotiated and had a verbal agreement as early as january... Cesc admitted he only decided about leaving Barça at April. Maybe Barça decided it earlier, but the player made the decision only in April.

If Mourinho had no problem admitting he negotiated a player with a team he faced later in UCL, if Costa had no problem admitting it was weird to score against his future club, what could possible be reason enough for Mourinho AND Cesc come up with a total different story?

I'm not saying Mourinho doesn't lie, he's lied many times before. It's just that this is such a non-issue that makes no sense to lie about it. The only one interested to make things look different from the truth is Arsene as his team is clearly struggling in midfield... His interview is contradictory. He says Cesc wanted to go back to Arsenal, he says Cesc decided to go to Chelsea before he even spoke to Arsenal. Both quotes from the same interview. Am I the only one to think one contradicts the other? How come he wanted to come back to Arsenal if he's made a decision about Chelsea before he contacted Arsenal? As I said, he's the one who has to save face and therefore have reasons to lie. Mourinho did nothing wrong by contacting Barça, Cesc did nothing wrong by deciding to go to Chelsea. Time will tell if Arsenal didn't make a mistake by letting Fabregas go (right now they'd need him, they know they have a bunch of players prone to injuries...). Clubs negotiate with players' agents while they're still under contract all the time. Actually that's what happens most of the time, it's rare for a (long) contract to run out and then the player move on a free transfer, like Lewa to Bayern. So of course conversations start during the season...

Also, I don't think Barcelona, Cesc and anyone else involved see Chelsea as the enemy. Maybe the bitter fans yes, but not to the extend they'd be offended by Cesc coming here. You said it yourself many, many times that neither Barcelona nor the fans were happy with Fabregas there. Why would any of them care if he came here? I think they wouldn't even care much if he transferred to another team in Spain, let alone in England.

After one of the many Cesc interviews I pointed out that he's never said he contacted Arsenal because he wanted to go there. It was always something along the lines 'they had a decision to make', 'I had to go through them first'. He never said he looked the club to come back there, but just that he went to them to get the authorization he needed to transfer somewhere else. As they had the buy-back clause regardless where he wanted to go, he had to know if Arsenal would make use of the clause or not... It's been very clear to me he didn't want to come back, that he wanted to go somewhere more competitive. Maybe that's why Arsene is convinced he wanted to go to Chelsea. Everyone knows winning titles at Arsenal is once in a blue moon...

It's not really about Barcelona. It's about Arsenal. It's a delicate situation. Cesc's loyalty towards Arsenal would be kind of questionable if what Wenger alluded to was true. The thing is, Cesc couldn't appear to be too eager to move to Chelsea even if he was, because it would make him look like a disloyal cunt towards Arsenal. You're right that he's been very careful with his words, stressing that Arsenal had the first option but didn't take it, which contradicts Wenger's words that Cesc already made the choice by the time he was informed. Maybe Wenger's just trying to make himself look better in Arsenal fans' eyes, or maybe he's telling the truth. The old man really seems to be contradicting himself a bit.

Who knows what Cesc really thinks or feels, but at this point, he has to say all the right things about Arsenal.

It doesn't really matter now. Either way, he looks happy at Chelsea and really committed, and that is what matters.

[Barbara 15,149]

It's not really about Barcelona. It's about Arsenal. It's a delicate situation. Cesc's loyalty towards Arsenal would be kind of questionable if what Wenger alluded to was true. The thing is, Cesc couldn't appear to be too eager to move to Chelsea even if he was, because it would make him look like a disloyal cunt towards Arsenal. You're right that he's been very careful with his words, stressing that Arsenal had the first option but didn't take it, which contradicts Wenger's words that Cesc already made the choice by the time he was informed. Maybe Wenger's just trying to make himself look better in Arsenal fans' eyes, or maybe he's telling the truth. The old man really seems to be contradicting himself a bit.

Who knows what Cesc really thinks or feels, but at this point, he has to say all the right things about Arsenal.

It doesn't really matter now. Either way, he looks happy at Chelsea and really committed, and it's good enough to me.

It doesn't really matter much. He wasn't obliged to come to Chelsea. He made a decision. We have among our own, fans saying Lamps could have said 'no' to another English team if he wanted. Cesc could have said 'no' to us... He didn't. Many Arsenal fans don't care if Arsenal wanted/needed/ could have had him or not, the problem for them is Cesc wearing royal blue. Actually that's the problem most of the fans I came across have. They don't give a shit if he tried to go to Arsenal before or not. They're disgusted and gutted to see him here. I think you're putting a lot of weight on how professional athletes deal with club loyalty. This isn't that much common anymore, they're professionals, they make their decisions based on what's good or better for them, they don't give an actual fuck about what fans from other teams will say. So even if he felt like he would look like a disloyal cunt towards Arsenal, it won't influence his decisions because although it's nice to have the respect he has from Arse fans, it's too abstract, too linked to fantasy world. He wants to play in a team where he's valued, he wants to really compete for titles, he wants what's best for his family. That's Chelsea, not Arsenal. He knows that better than anyone. He's been praising Chelsea and Mourinho since he's here. He said all kind of amazing words about Mourinho just last week. Actually ever since his first interview as a Chelsea player he's been clear that what made his decision easy was talking to Mourinho. If he was interested in looking good for fans that really don't make a difference for him anymore (in a practical and pragmatic way) he wouldn't have praised Mourinho's approach. If that was really important he wouldn't have joined us...

Maybe he's trying to avoid extra judgment from Chelsea fans. You know there a lot of fans that haven't come around to seeing him here. Some let their residual dislike of him as a consequence of him being Arse's captain and symbol for so long. He'd always represented everything Arsenal, he'd made many things to enrage Chelsea fans in the past. He knew there would be some part of the fans that would take a long time to warm up to him. Maybe that's reason enough for him to lie or tell half truths that could be up to interpretation, but he's said with all words that Arsenal will always be special to him, that everything he is as a football player he owes it to Arsenal. That's not the easiest to make fans who spent so many years hating him to suddenly warm up. He could have done a much better job at pleasing both his old fans and his current fans, he seems diplomatic most time, which makes me believe he's mostly telling the truth. He could be worried about pleasing one side or the other, or not trying to upset too much any of the two sides, but he's said things to enrage both sides and to please both sides. At the end of the day, as you said, it doesn't matter when, how or why the decision was made.

He's here, Arsene could have stopped it from happening and that's the difference between the Voyeur and Mourinho. If Mourinho was at Arsenal and even if looked to his squad and saw that he didn't necessarily need Cesc, he still would have never allowed him to join a title contender, a rival. If he has the power to stop a rival from being stronger, he'll just do it, fuck the consequences or he'd deal with the consequences later. He would have brought Cesc there and would have found a way to make him work with both Ozil and Ramsey in the team. It's not like Ramsey doesn't miss tons of matches every season because of injuries... Mourinho doesn't think only about strengthening his teams, he also thinks about strengthening a team that could lead his rivals to drop points, but not his side (through loans) and also about now allowing his players to strengthen other teams (remember how he didn't want to keep Ba, but kept him because the only team really interested was Arsenal and he wouldn't strengthen them? And that's Ba who we're talking about here... not even marginally, comparable to Cesc's boots, let alone his value and quality as a player). Cesc was all but an Arsenal player because of the buy-back clause. Mourinho would have never allowed him to join a rival in those circumstances, even if he didn't have many plans for Cesc or if he had to sacrifice Ozil and Ramsey a little bit to make room for Cesc.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Barbara, on 04 Oct 2014 - 03:27 AM, said:

It doesn't really matter much. He wasn't obliged to come to Chelsea. He made a decision. We have among our own, fans saying Lamps could have said 'no' to another English team if he wanted. Cesc could have said 'no' to us... He didn't. Many Arsenal fans don't care if Arsenal wanted/needed/ could have had him or not, the problem for them is Cesc wearing royal blue. Actually that's the problem most of the fans I came across have. They don't give a shit if he tried to go to Arsenal before or not. They're disgusted and gutted to see him here. I think you're putting a lot of weight on how professional athletes deal with club loyalty. This isn't that much common anymore, they're professionals, they make their decisions based on what's good or better for them, they don't give an actual fuck about what fans from other teams will say. So even if he felt like he would look like a disloyal cunt towards Arsenal, it won't influence his decisions because although it's nice to have the respect he has from Arse fans, it's too abstract, too linked to fantasy world. He wants to play in a team where he's valued, he wants to really compete for titles, he wants what's best for his family. That's Chelsea, not Arsenal. He knows that better than anyone. He's been praising Chelsea and Mourinho since he's here. He said all kind of amazing words about Mourinho just last week. Actually ever since his first interview as a Chelsea player he's been clear that what made his decision easy was talking to Mourinho. If he was interested in looking good for fans that really don't make a difference for him anymore (in a practical and pragmatic way) he wouldn't have praised Mourinho's approach. If that was really important he wouldn't have joined us...

Maybe he's trying to avoid extra judgment from Chelsea fans. You know there a lot of fans that haven't come around to seeing him here. Some let their residual dislike of him as a consequence of him being Arse's captain and symbol for so long. He'd always represented everything Arsenal, he'd made many things to enrage Chelsea fans in the past. He knew there would be some part of the fans that would take a long time to warm up to him. Maybe that's reason enough for him to lie or tell half truths that could be up to interpretation, but he's said with all words that Arsenal will always be special to him, that everything he is as a football player he owes it to Arsenal. That's not the easiest to make fans who spent so many years hating him to suddenly warm up. He could have done a much better job at pleasing both his old fans and his current fans, he seems diplomatic most time, which makes me believe he's mostly telling the truth. He could be worried about pleasing one side or the other, or not trying to upset too much any of the two sides, but he's said things to enrage both sides and to please both sides. At the end of the day, as you said, it doesn't matter when, how or why the decision was made.

He's here, Arsene could have stopped it from happening and that's the difference between the Voyeur and Mourinho. If Mourinho was at Arsenal and even if looked to his squad and saw that he didn't necessarily need Cesc, he still would have never allowed him to join a title contender, a rival. If he has the power to stop a rival from being stronger, he'll just do it, fuck the consequences or he'd deal with the consequences later. He would have brought Cesc there and would have found a way to make him work with both Ozil and Ramsey in the team. It's not like Ramsey doesn't miss tons of matches every season because of injuries... Mourinho doesn't think only about strengthening his teams, he also thinks about strengthening a team that could lead his rivals to drop points, but not his side (through loans) and also about now allowing his players to strengthen other teams (remember how he didn't want to keep Ba, but kept him because the only team really interested was Arsenal and he wouldn't strengthen them? And that's Ba who we're talking about here... not even marginally, comparable to Cesc's boots, let alone his value and quality as a player). Cesc was all but an Arsenal player because of the buy-back clause. Mourinho would have never allowed him to join a rival in those circumstances, even if he didn't have many plans for Cesc or if he had to sacrifice Ozil and Ramsey a little bit to make room for Cesc.

I agree with most of this, but there are still a lot of Arsenal fans who care about whether he "betrayed" them or not, whether he tried to return to Arsenal or not. As you say, many of them just hate him for wearing blue, but many of them still love him, or at least like him, and think "it's not his fault, leave him alone." And Fabregas is many things, but he's been always respectful towards his teams' fans. I'm sure he cares enough not to stomp all over their emotions even if he truly chose Chelsea over Arsenal.

For Costa and Luis it's much easier, because they haven't been Arsenal's captain and golden boy and they can say and do whatever they want, kiss the badge, say how much they wanted to play for Chelsea, how much they love Chelsea and so on. Cesc can't do any of that even if he wants to. I think we'll hear the words by the end of the season, but now he can't do any of that without it looking cheap and disloyal towards his former team. He has to be careful and say all the right things about Arsenal, whether he feels them or not. Don't get me wrong: I think he's been honest, but there are still some things he can't say at this point. That's why what Wenger alluded to might not be just a lie to make himself look better: that it was Cesc's choice to go to Chelsea, pure and simple, regardless of whether Arsenal needed him or not.

Either way, we'll never know for sure.

[Fulham Broadway 16,393]

Quite a few Arsenal will boo him on Sunday. They really are spastics.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Tomorrow is your day, Cesc.

[ZanSnake 1,211]

I will sing to the heavens if he scored against the Arse-null