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Jason

10. Willian

Started by Jason,

6,512 posts in this topic

Rooney is the same in interviews but he has a footballing brain, so I'd say general intelligence and footballing intelligence are very different. I don't know if Willian lacks a footballing brain or if he's just not confident enough to play the 'riskier' ball.

absolutely which is why I mentioned multiple intelligences in the second post. I think Willian's main problem is not thinking per say. He may even be able to think smart things, but it seems he doesn't take the time to actually think deeper about it, you know? I don't know how to describe, but he seems to struggle to get things deeper and so when he does the most difficult (because he has the most difficult imo - but than again that based in my own set of intelligences, I'm terrible with motor coordination and manual things in general, I can barely draw a stick person) he doesn't deliver it because it feels like he didn't think through everything he was going to do. I don't know, I'm struggling to find the words in English (HA!) - I feel like he goes through the first stages of thinking what he's going to do, but he doesn't think the whole thing through and then he does the first thing that crosses his mind or acts on instinct (which can be good, if one has good instincts).

The Chels likes this

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His statistics have been poor throughout his career though.

Yes, because of his playing style. The point being is that there is potential for change in the balance of his work rate if the team organisation allows for it. Its simple, if he is in the opposition half more and not tracking back with such dedication , then his stats would be better. I appreciate his tracking back last season was required but hopefully season it will be required less.

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absolutely which is why I mentioned multiple intelligences in the second post. I think Willian's main problem is not thinking per say. He may even be able to think smart things, but it seems he doesn't take the time to actually think deeper about it, you know? I don't know how to describe, but he seems to struggle to get things deeper and so when he does the most difficult (because he has the most difficult imo - but than again that based in my own set of intelligences, I'm terrible with motor coordination and manual things in general, I can barely draw a stick person) he doesn't deliver it because it feels like he didn't think through everything he was going to do. I don't know, I'm struggling to find the words in English (HA!) - I feel like he goes through the first stages of thinking what he's going to do, but he doesn't think the whole thing through and then he does the first thing that crosses his mind or acts on instinct (which can be good, if one has good instincts).

How about 'he's not a deep thinker'?

Yes, because of his playing style. The point being is that there is potential for change in the balance of his work rate if the team organisation allows for it. Its simple, if he is in the opposition half more and not tracking back with such dedication , then his stats would be better. I appreciate his tracking back last season was required but hopefully season it will be required less.

If he couldn't get decent stats in Ukranian and Russian leagues (tracking back or not) then I doubt he'll get them here.

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If he couldn't get decent stats in Ukranian and Russian leagues (tracking back or not) then I doubt he'll get them here.

Good job we have Costa and Hazard then. You can look too much into stats. Hes still 25 and also the BPL is so different to them leagues.

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Rooney, like many footballers, is the same. In interviews you can tell he's not the sharpest tool in the shed but he does have a 'footballing brain' so I'd say general intelligence and footballing intelligence are very different. I don't know if Willian lacks the footballing brain or if he's just not confident enough to take the riskier option (be it a through ball, shot, etc.).

Suarez is another. Brilliant, brilliant footballing mind, but he wasn't educated.

The Chels likes this

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Good job we have Costa and Hazard then. You can look too much into stats. Hes still 25 and also the BPL is so different to them leagues.
The stats back up what we've seen though: his decision making (for whatever reason) is really poor.

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Lol, people are calling Willian, Rooney, and Suarez stupid:ph34r:. That's mean.

that's the thing, I'm not even sure if he's what I'd label stupid. He seems a shallow thinker. Those people don't articulate their thoughts and don't fulfill their potential (in thinking). IF - big IF - that's the case it doesn't mean he's stupid, just that as he doesn't think things through he comes off as shallow. It shows in his interviews and football wise you think that he's been interrupted - by himself - and doesn't conclude the brilliant things he starts.

Or maybe he's just stupid indeed. We don't know. He made in a few years of football career more money that I'll do in my whole life and a couple more of them if I had them. So stupid or not, clever or not, bright or not, deep thinker or not, he's rich I'm not :P

iseah100 likes this

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Yes, because of his playing style. The point being is that there is potential for change in the balance of his work rate if the team organisation allows for it. Its simple, if he is in the opposition half more and not tracking back with such dedication , then his stats would be better. I appreciate his tracking back last season was required but hopefully season it will be required less.

Not a chance. If anything, his work rate and tracking back will be required more this season if he plays on RW.

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Not a chance. If anything, his work rate and tracking back will be required more this season if he plays on RW.

Yupp, if Azpi and Luis bomb forward, probably.

I'm soooo excited!!!

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Yupp, if Azpi and Luis bomb forward, probably.

...and track back to help out Cesc when he plays in the pivot. He'll play on the right side.

So I'm sure Willian's work rate will be really appreciated by Jose this season.

iseah100 likes this

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that's the thing, I'm not even sure if he's what I'd label stupid. He seems a shallow thinker. Those people don't articulate their thoughts and don't fulfill their potential (in thinking). IF - big IF - that's the case it doesn't mean he's stupid, just that as he doesn't think things through he comes off as shallow. It shows in his interviews and football wise you think that he's been interrupted - by himself - and doesn't conclude the brilliant things he starts.

Or maybe he's just stupid indeed. We don't know. He made in a few years of football career more money that I'll do in my whole life and a couple more of them if I had them. So stupid or not, clever or not, bright or not, deep thinker or not, he's rich I'm not :P

haha did u c zouma interview?

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Hm,according to that Özil must me a genius because his decision making was always good in Madrid.But his german interviews were so terrible that I always stopped watching them after a couple of minutes because I knew he would not say something intelligent or funny .That´s why I think that a good football brain has nothing to do with the general intelligence.

Furthermore,I believe that you have to play Willian as a no.10 to question his football brain.If he makes similar mistakes in his favoured position,you have the right to question his football brain because I think that playing as a right wing is a little bit weird for him,so if Mourinho sees him as a no.10 he should give him at least a chance.

Beigl, WhatsTheMatic? and James like this

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I agree the problem is his decision making,but that's not the main mistake he does imo. Comparatively, Hazard makes that mistake you mentioned much more than Willian does, especially when he isn't playing his best yet yet. Last season I was pulling my hair when Hazard was dribbling everybody and their mother in OUR half. That's not where you do that, and many times he lost possession in the second third, offering a counter to opposition. Then he started playing better and that was much less noticeable and prominent. And we don't need to say for the 3495874th time that Eden has bad decision making about shooting on the goal. He just doesn't do it as much as he should.

Now Willian's decision making problem is of a different nature imo and I feel bad for saying it so bluntly, but he's just not a clever person (or player as I don't know him personally, but judging by his interviews even in portuguese you can say he's far from the brightest kid in the class, very far). If the guy doesn't think, he doesn't execute, simple. Also he lacks some directness. He's all flair and technique and that's cute and dandy and it makes vids such as the one on the previous page mouthwatering. But he rarely does something out of it. He dribbles, he has such a class touching the ball, flawless ball control and first touch, but as he isn't direct or clever, well, the result is what we see.

Said all that, I think he will improve this season simply because one more season makes a lot of difference for players coming from a different league to the EPL. The first season can be tough, but normally the second is when they settle and grow. That's likely to be the case with him, but I wouldn't hold too high expectations because of those two limitations I've mentioned. While Mou can help him directness (someone like Cesc too), the cleverness part is there for good imo.

For a dumb person he's quite steady in our build up, and defensive shift. The lad like Schürrle never complained about sitting the bench for much of the first part of the season, and always put a decent shift in. He takes his responsibilities seriously, unlike some other attacking players we have. If he is as dumb as you say, why does Mourinho even bother playing him as a number 10. Oscar isn't overly creative, and comes across like any faceless Brazillian in most of his interviews. Surely he must be as dumb like Willian. Hazard kicked a kid, ate a hamburger when he was benched at the national team, had a defensive brain fart in our CL Semi-final. He's gotten away with alot of it because he is Eden Hazard, but seeïng his interviews he looks like a kid trapped in a growns man body.

Here are some of Mourinho's own words about him after our CL semi-final exit "Normally you get these kind of comments from players like him, from players that can't resolve a problem like we had in the first goal."

"Eden is the kind of player that is not so mentally ready to look back to his left-back and to leave his life for him."

Perhaps the biggest comment is this: Hazard has been praised for his defensive duties this term, but Mourinho insists he still has work to do.

"I'm not happy," Mourinho said.

"I speak all season and I try to improve him all season." It clearly is a jab that after all the work he's done during the season Hazard still doesn't understand some basic defensive football work.

Anyway, do i judge these players on their intelligence? No, if i did that then half of our squad should be gone. Torres doesn't score right? So he must be dumb as a brick. Willian has to improve, but saying that he can't because of his intelligence are some pretty big acquisitions. I will defend everyone of our players that get judged and trashed away by these assumptions people get by listening to interviews etc

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His best position is as a left winger where he can cut from the left and go deeper. or behind the striker as a no10. he's never going to score enough goals and create assists while he's playing on the right. he's clearly a natural when he's dribbiling but he's dribbiling in the wrong areas. he's never going to get in the box while he's playing on the right, he's just a passenger when he plays there. but I stil prefer him over Schurrle and Salah on the right, because he's really hard working and he takes on players and can be dangerous anytime. he's also a good finisher, he just doesnt get into goal scoring positions, mainly due to his postition.

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Willian and hazard aren't too different for me except willian probably plays to his capacity and hazard is more proficient on goal but likes to dribble too much. Willian is a certain type of premoulded player with a certain kind of style and that's difficult to change, however his balance of dribbling and passing is really good which makes him a good option as a number 10. Hazard on the other hand doesn't have that balance, hazard is more of a dribbler that can also make great passes to create a chance but not frequent shot or long range passes like oscar, willian or fabregas can do to control midfield tempo, in other words hazard is not a distributor of passes which makes him understrength as midfielder in the No. 10 role but his drbbling makes him a winger in addition to his great passes which make him a playmaker from the wings, a bit like ronaldinho for barca. But for me oscar is our best option because he brings the best stability unfortunately he doesn't have the strength and energy of hazard or willian despite having more stability at no. 10 nor the vision of cesc despite being a better presser, runner and dribbler than cesc.

If costa scores regularly regardless of who supplies the final ball be it matic,luis, fabregas, oscar, hazard, willian or costa himself then all our Attacking midfielders will look very good and that is what I hope for rather than blaming one particular player or the other because it is a team sport and we defend poorly as team we will suffer regardless of who plays no. 5 or 6 like wise if we attack poorly as a team we will also suffer regardless of who is no. 10 and that is why mourinho went into the market to fix the team with fabregas, luis, and costa to give a different dimension to the team making it more proficient. Torres though stands out as an individual that restricts our lack of proficiency proven far before the arrival of oscar, willian or hazard, I hope costa is able to make himself available for passes and also finishes clinically our attacks unlike torres. There is more than enough creative players in the team.

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But I never called him dumb and I separated football brains from general brains.

I said he's a shallow thinker when I finally found the words. He doesn't think the whole thing it seems, but either way, he's very talented, but could catalyze his potential and results if he had a better end product. Whether is because he doesn't think enough, doesn't think at all or is football dumb we don't know, but fact remains his end product is precarious compared to talent.

@Shakez, Oscar is average smart imo. In Portuguese he's much more articulated and he could try a career after he retires either as a pundit or as a manager (despite being only 23 in a month) because he actually has nice ideas and talks in a very clear way. He isn't dumb at all and again I didn't call Willian dumb, I said he can't articulate things and repeat the same basic things over and over.

And I honestly don't get why you were so defensive. So it's okay to say a guy can't score, can't dribble, but it's not okay to say he can't think things through affecting his end product or that his interviews are an accumulation of nothing? Double standard much or what?

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