The English Football Thread

[robsblubot 3,595]

46 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Honestly feel he needs to take Colwill out of the team full stop for now as he has really struggled I think but he cannot as we have no fit LBs. 

When Cucurella and Ben are back, Levi should be dropped just to get a bit of a rest and also get himself right as he has been a mixed bag. Got the feeling Cucurella was turning a corner performance wise but still has more to offer.

Yeah I'm going to be the dissident opinion here: club above player always.

Until we find an adequate solution to LB Colwill it is. If Cuccu can put in decent performances, problem solved, but really not a whole lot else to do from the Manager's pov.

Edited December 28, 2023 by robsblubot

[robsblubot 3,595]

4 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Is Maatsen not an LB by trade?

yes, but not by characteristics. It's not what the manager wants to balance the lack of defending up front, so what is he to do?

Not an opinion, but fact: between an attacking FB and a defender, Poch picks the defender. It's his prerogative. Chelsea hired him for his "way to play" not ours.

Edited December 28, 2023 by robsblubot

[LAM09 6,857]

Just now, robsblubot said:

yes, but not by characteristics. It's not what the manager wants to balance the lack of defending up front, so what is he to do?

I was going to comment on a recent post you made about him; he's a player that might have a future further up the pitch, but he certainly doesn't have the ability to defend at this level.

At some point, Poch is going to have to realise (if he remains) that we don't have the personnel to fit whatever he's looking forward AND get results. 

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

2 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

I was going to comment on a recent post you made about him; he's a player that might have a future further up the pitch, but he certainly doesn't have the ability to defend at this level.

At some point, Poch is going to have to realise (if he remains) that we don't have the personnel to fit whatever he's looking forward AND get results. 

 

yeah, perhaps a smart move in Jan can fix some of that? I'd say LB, Striker, and an attacking player either CAM or winger.
With some of the players still looking raw going out on loan... perhaps Maatsen himself. 

[Thor 2,476]

Rice and Caceido are both good players. 

One is just in a better environment. One is struggling a bit given the turbulent nature of our team. 

Rice isn't a better player like some of you suggest. 

[LAM09 6,857]

42 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

yeah, perhaps a smart move in Jan can fix some of that? I'd say LB, Striker, and an attacking player either CAM or winger.
With some of the players still looking raw going out on loan... perhaps Maatsen himself. 

We need to sell before making any notable signings going by reports. It's quite sad to think how much we've spent in less than two years and still have gapping holes throughout our squad.

Edited December 29, 2023 by LAM09

[OneMoSalah 8,821]

9 hours ago, LAM09 said:

Is Maatsen not an LB by trade?

Yeah. But he probably hasn’t impressed Poch enough to play there. I think defensively he is very poor also for this level.

9 hours ago, LAM09 said:

It was odd seeing him celebrate with such passion considering they were down by 4.

  

I'm certainly not dismissing the work he's done so far with lesser players or players hampered by injuries. However, by the same token, he's showing naivety at this level by not changing his setup when it's clearly not working. There's a time to adapt rather than get wipped for ninety minutes.

The fact that you're comparing him to managers who won a fair bit before coming to the EPL is questionable in itself. What might work for the Socceroos or Celtic won't fly in the Premiership or CL.

Perhaps but he had the same thing at Celtic too. His tactics were dubbed “naive” after his first 4 games by the media yet once it clicked properly - which takes time/all your best players being fit - and he strengthened the squad in key positions, those naive moments disappeared and he was rightly commended for his personality and approach to football. Irrespective of the league and quality of opposition I don’t believe it is any different. Even Pep was the same at City year 1, they needed to spend 300m on another GK and 4 fullbacks the next summer to really kick on from when we beat them to the league. That was maybe a season or 2 after Pellegrini won the league ridiculously comfortably too. And then there was Klopp with the high pressing too at the beginning, it was “naive” because he was “burning players out” but a few transfer windows and a pre season later, different story.

No doubt he will need to make additions as Spurs are scraping by personnel wise, lost Harry Kane in the summer but I think it’s unfair to say the style he has done throughout his whole career won’t transmit to the PL when it already has and lets be honest, the style it isn’t exactly too dissimilar in ways to what we have seen from various managers like Pep, like Arteta, like Bielsa, like Wenger etc. Just with his own twist on it as all these guys had/have on possession based attacking football. Its just his reputation more for me that makes me think people are dismissive of his football. If he had played the sort of football he did throughout his managerial career at an Ajax or a Villarreal and had the same level of success or some other slightly higher profile clubs than he has done, people wouldn’t be as pessimistic I think. 

Yes their games have had scary moments and a few of their games could have gone either way or been finished earlier but everyone was praising Brighton and de Zebri last season now they are leaking goals left right and centre, playing the same way. Nobody is deeming them or him as naive - but because he had the success last season. I think irrespective if people think Spurs are naive or not, they are ballsy to play that way against everybody and have got clear belief they will score goals. Be it v City, Liverpool, Brighton, us - whoever. When they get their starting 11 back and if they add some good quality to their squad that suits that style, I don’t think people will be convinced that he is naive to play that way.

If I am honest (maybe a bit biased as I was a huge fan of what he did up at Celtic as I have family who are Hoops and seen some games), I think he has the potential to move again to the likes of a Manchester United or a Liverpool or somebody if he has some real success at Spurs if I am honest. I mean Klopp won’t go on there forever and Radcliffe could see him as a viable option for United. Maybe a bit unrealistic as I’d think Klopp wont be going anywhere yet but even when we were linked with him before Poch was announced, I’d of taken him. Purely for his reputation of improving players, the style of football and more importantly his character. 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by OneMoSalah

[Special Juan 27,597]

Proper punch and run by WHU that last night, the fucking faces of the Arsenal fans was great. The smugness going into the game from Ian Wright and all the other tossers was a pleasure to see them on the verge of tears after the game.

 

[LAM09 6,857]

6 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Yeah. But he probably hasn’t impressed Poch enough to play there. I think defensively he is very poor also for this level.

Perhaps but he had the same thing at Celtic too. His tactics were dubbed “naive” after his first 4 games by the media yet once it clicked properly - which takes time/all your best players being fit - and he strengthened the squad in key positions, those naive moments disappeared and he was rightly commended for his personality and approach to football. Irrespective of the league and quality of opposition I don’t believe it is any different. Even Pep was the same at City year 1, they needed to spend 300m on another GK and 4 fullbacks the next summer to really kick on from when we beat them to the league. That was maybe a season or 2 after Pellegrini won the league ridiculously comfortably too. And then there was Klopp with the high pressing too at the beginning, it was “naive” because he was “burning players out” but a few transfer windows and a pre season later, different story.

No doubt he will need to make additions as Spurs are scraping by personnel wise, lost Harry Kane in the summer but I think it’s unfair to say the style he has done throughout his whole career won’t transmit to the PL when it already has and lets be honest, the style it isn’t exactly too dissimilar in ways to what we have seen from various managers like Pep, like Arteta, like Bielsa, like Wenger etc. Just with his own twist on it as all these guys had/have on possession based attacking football. Its just his reputation more for me that makes me think people are dismissive of his football. If he had played the sort of football he did throughout his managerial career at an Ajax or a Villarreal and had the same level of success or some other slightly higher profile clubs than he has done, people wouldn’t be as pessimistic I think. 

Yes their games have had scary moments and a few of their games could have gone either way or been finished earlier but everyone was praising Brighton and de Zebri last season now they are leaking goals left right and centre, playing the same way. Nobody is deeming them or him as naive - but because he had the success last season. I think irrespective if people think Spurs are naive or not, they are ballsy to play that way against everybody and have got clear belief they will score goals. Be it v City, Liverpool, Brighton, us - whoever. When they get their starting 11 back and if they add some good quality to their squad that suits that style, I don’t think people will be convinced that he is naive to play that way.

If I am honest (maybe a bit biased as I was a huge fan of what he did up at Celtic as I have family who are Hoops and seen some games), I think he has the potential to move again to the likes of a Manchester United or a Liverpool or somebody if he has some real success at Spurs if I am honest. I mean Klopp won’t go on there forever and Radcliffe could see him as a viable option for United. Maybe a bit unrealistic as I’d think Klopp wont be going anywhere yet but even when we were linked with him before Poch was announced, I’d of taken him. Purely for his reputation of improving players, the style of football and more importantly his character. 

 

I personally find it hard to take much stock in what he did at Celtic, aside from his ability to improve the players at his disposal. Neil Lennon did a similar job at Celtic in the league & had better success in Europe. It's a results business at the end of the day.

We'll see if he can lift this side to another level within the next 12 months or fall by the waste side like better managers have done in the past.

[OneMoSalah 8,821]

9 hours ago, LAM09 said:

I personally find it hard to take much stock in what he did at Celtic, aside from his ability to improve the players at his disposal. Neil Lennon did a similar job at Celtic in the league & had better success in Europe. It's a results business at the end of the day.

We'll see if he can lift this side to another level within the next 12 months or fall by the waste side like better managers have done in the past.

Rodgers and Lennon both stagnated Celtic the last 18 months they were there though. Ask any Celtic fans. Rodgers has also gone back and has really struggled to replicate the same high levels of performances that they were producing with Postecoglu. Look at how tight the table is in Scotland. With the same squad barring a few additions/departures. 

In Europe the quality difference is hugely noticeable, agreed, but Celtic trying to go toe to toe with Real Madrid, RB Leipzig & Shakhtar Donesk (first match I had seen Mudryk play in) is historically unheard of, yet they went at them in every game and by all account had big chances in each game which better quality players would of scored. Same as how Spurs have gone at every team they have played. Top quality players make a difference. Even Brendan Rodger’s record in Europe with Celtic is below par and Lennons when he returned didn’t come up against teams of that quality barring maybe Lazio so it is a false stat to waive around when you consider Rodger’s record in the PL with Swansea, Liverpool and Leicester also & Lennon’s record domestically in Scotland with Celtic & Hibs.

I think if he gets the additions he wants which are reportedly another CB, a winger and central midfielder - this will strengthen Spur’s position a lot. Although it does remain to see how he continues to do and especially again next season but a lot of football to be played to then. But I don’t think people should think that this is just a honeymoon period or a flash in the pan. Most would argue he has already lifted Spurs to another level much more than Mourinho and Conte ever did.

Edited December 30, 2023 by OneMoSalah

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