Grant Equals Mourinho Record

[PaulHopkins 1]

Grant seems to have given certain players more confidence most notably Wright-Phillips who has been getting starts and in this new position which he seems to be excelling at. Belletti has also improved a great deal as he is now allowed to bomb forward. Ballack as captain is another positive move as he has really taken the role on in a fantastic manner.

All positive for Grant as far as I'm concerned

[pluto 0]

No Warnie, I'm not suggesting he should have changed things that much because yes it would have upset the team balance and results most probably.

But equally I don't see why I should shower Grant with praise either for basically not really doing much at all other than continue on with what has already been laid down for him, he has a great squad, with great quality, great inbuilt team spirit and experience and he has benefitted accordingly.

Through in the additional aggro factor for me of his claims that we are playing better football under him than previously and that things are changing from what went before - well I just have to sigh inwardly every time.

Yes he deserves plaudits for what he has done but I will not be going down on bended knee to laud his genius as a manager when sources from within the club can't actually put their finger on what he does do but only on what he doesn't!

Next season I think we will see hopefully more of the real Avram Grant right now I see is Mourinho's team playing like just they used to.

Sorry, please point me to the stats that say we are winning more games than under Jose - I thought the stats said he has the same record at this stage to the one Jose did when he started?

And no we are not attacking more in games, I can count on the fingers of one hand where we apparently attacked more overtly than we might have done under Mourinho, in other games we have played exactly as we have done before. You obviously are taken in by the Grant mantra after every game about how much more we attack now than ever before.

Classic example the Derby game when our players were taking the ball to the corner flag to waste the minutes out until the end of the game which we had in the end comfortably won! If we are so much more attacking why are we still winning games 1-0 or 2-0 generally?

Jimmy Anfield on Five Live after the Wigan game said how it was interesting to see how Grant had maintained the importance of a solid defence just like Mourinho and how much importance he placed on it - seems he's got Jose tinted specs on too.

I don't need any Jose blinkers to know we are playing pretty much the same way, I can hear it from the media, many fans and pundits who commentate on the Chelsea games and they tell a similar tale so it's not just me that's insane then it's quite a few of the footballing population who apparently are missing this new attack minded Chelsea Grant has created.

What he has done in not changing anything is smart but copying something that was already pretty darn good is not the work of brilliance, just common sense.

Edited January 28, 2008 by pluto

[BlueLion. 21,491]

If we do end up playing more attacking football from next season, so be it. But I think it it wise not to change our style of play just yet, our 4-3-3/4-5-1 is working brilliantly at the moment.

[pluto 0]

Anyone can buy a McDonalds franchise for £200 000+ and make a profit, yet know fuck all about manageing it. You have managers and staff to do that.

Grant is a shyster. The main thing is that Chelsea FC are doing well, we have two lynch pins with a Toad croaking in the middle, a void, which could be filled with someone who knows what they're doing. But it's Romans money and he can squander it on a fraud if he wants.

Love your quote, I'm trying to think positive thoughts about Mr Grant whenever I can even when he carries on about our non existent new style and looks as if someone has died every day he cares about but you sure have a way of putting things that makes me grin whether I agree 100% or not!

[warnie_666 1,081]

No Warnie, I'm not suggesting he should have changed things that much because yes it would have upset the team balance and results most probably.

But equally I don't see why I should shower Grant with praise either for basically not really doing much at all other than continue on with what has already been laid down for him, he has a great squad, with great quality, great inbuilt team spirit and experience and he has benefitted accordingly.

Through in the additional aggro factor for me of his claims that we are playing better football under him than previously and that things are changing from what went before - well I just have to sigh inwardly every time.

Yes he deserves plaudits for what he has done but I will not be going down on bended knee to laud his genius as a manager when souces from within the club can't actually put their finger on what he does do but only on what he doesn't!

Next season I think we will see hopefully more of the real Avram Grant right now I see is Mourinho's team playing like they used to.

Sorry, please point me to the stats that say we are winning more games than under Jose - I thought the stats said he has the same record at this stage to the one Jose did when he started.

And no we are not attacking more in games, I can count on the fingers of one hand where we apparently attacked more overtly than we might have done under Mourinho, in other games we have played exactly as we have done before. You obviously are taken in by the Grant mantra after every game about how much more we attack now than ever before.

Classic example the Derby game when our players were taking the ball to the corner flag to waste the minutes out until the end of the game which we had in the end comfortable won. Wigan smash and grab raid, the list goes on and on.

I don't need any Jose blinkers to know we are playing pretty much the same way, I can hear it from the media, many fans and pundits who tell a similar tail so it's not just me that's insane then it's quite a few of the footballing population who apparently are missing this new attack minded Chelsea Grant has created.

No ones telling you to go down on your knees and hail him....but the man deserves some credit atleast....for his man management skills. Look at his positives over Jose's...he is not a cribber. Jose had Terry ,Cech out and he cribbed soo much so that it spoiled his rship with the owner. Now see Grant....He has lost the core of Chelsea(lamps, Drogs, Terry, Essien, and other 1st team players) ALL AT ONCE....and he is quietly doing his job and giving the club the results....it wants. And I appreciate that quality of Grant's.

I still respect Jose and I still feel he is the best Manager in the world...but at the same time I wish to give credit to people who deserve it for what theyve done in the difficult times for the club. And I hope you do the same in future.

[PaulHopkins 1]

I have the greatest respect for Mourinho and what he has done for the club but Grant is the future and he is taking the club forward in an admirably manner. Keep up the good work Avram! :thumbsup:

[pluto 0]

No ones telling you to go down on your knees and hail him....but the man deserves some credit atleast....for his man management skills. Look at his positives over Jose's...he is not a cribber. Jose had Terry ,Cech out and he cribbed soo much so that it spoiled his rship with the owner. Now see Grant....He has lost the core of Chelsea(lamps, Drogs, Terry, Essien, and other 1st team players) ALL AT ONCE....and he is quietly doing his job and giving the club the results....it wants. And I appreciate that quality of Grant's.

I still respect Jose and I still feel he is the best Manager in the world...but at the same time I wish to give credit to people who deserve it for what theyve done in the difficult times for the club. And I hope you do the same in future.

I'm not suggesting we should not praise Avram but I can't get myself into a state of nirvana over his management to date sorry I just can't.

Injury wise what has Grant had as replacements? Ballack a German captain and international for Lampard! Yeah that's a real bust out. Alex an international for JT - have you missed JT really? Belletti has been available, Ashley Cole and Bridge both available, Joe Cole and SWP both usually fit, and now Anelka to help in attack. Last season we had Essien and Ferreira playing at CB or RB in one game! We have cover now - excellent squad cover and that had aided Grant enormously.

And who have we played during this time? Newcastle in crisis about to sack their manager, Fulham just sacked their manager, Blackburn going through a scoring slump, the only team that did bother us was Villa and we played them at home so we had at least some sort of advantage.

It says something when you can say we are going through difficult times because you "only" have Ballack but no Lampard, Joe Cole but no Malouda, Alex and Belletti but no JT or Ferreira and no Mikel okay then how about Maka a legend to replace him? Yes that's really is scraping the bottom of the pit isn't it?

Yes we have had squad depletion but when you consider the options Grant has had available it's a joke to talk of a reserve squad struggling against the likes of a Wigan et al and how hard it must be for him to formulate a decent side. If he was playing Arse or Man you then yes I'd be more concerned but not the competition we've been facing over Christmas.

Mourinho was given no cover in January which he badly needed, when he asked for reinforcements he was told to sod off. Grant wanted a striker? Take you pick. He bought Anelka, the same Anelka that scored and gave an assist against Wigan. The squad cover purchased in the summer (Belletti, Alex, Sidwell and god help us Pizarro) that has helped Grant maintain that nice calm, stoic demenour you are raving about. No wonder he didn't complain, total support of the boss, can buy players during the transfer window to get him out of a hole if necessary and he a good quality players in reserve who will also be able to play in their correct positions. Throw in toothless opposition of the likes of Wigan, Newcastle, Fulham, QPR and your laughing.

Grant may have had it difficult but not half as difficult as some like to pretend.

We probably have the deepest squad in the premiership and the way we have coped without a blip merely confirms that. We have international players not only in our first team but very often in our second now as well.

Edited January 28, 2008 by pluto

[Elliott 7]

Is anyone in a state of nirvana pluto? I don't think anyone is. You seem to be arguing with a hypothetical Grant lover... I don't see any, only those recognising that he's done better than expected.

[oxfordblues 299]

And the deserve the utmost respect JBD, fair play to you mate

can i play,im 46 first game just a babby

[pluto 0]

I agree with you Elliott that Grant has done better than expected when he first arrived but Warnie seems to be suggesting I should give him more respect than what I've done so far and that I'm not nearly giving him enough.

Okay so I was joking about the "nirvana" bit!

However, I'm sorry I give any more respect to Grant, simply upon the basis of what I've seen so far with the teams we have played and with the players we have used.

I do think he's done a good job and surprised many people I would not deny that but I'm still very unsure about the guy in terms of his managerial talent despite the run of results and how great he is with the press keeping things low key etc which I agree is much better than with Mourinho.

Edited January 28, 2008 by pluto

[warnie_666 1,081]

Injury wise what has Grant had as replacements? Ballack a German captain and international for Lampard! Yeah that's a real bust out. Alex an international for JT - have you missed JT really? Belletti has been available, Ashley Cole and Bridge both available, Joe Cole and SWP both usually fit, and now Anelka to help in attack. Last season we had Essien and Ferreira playing at CB or RB in one game! We have cover now - excellent squad cover and that had aided Grant enormously.

And who have we played during this time? Newcastle in crisis about to sack their manager, Fulham just sacked their manager, Blackburn going through a scoring slump, the only team that did bother us was Villa and we played them at home so we had at least some sort of advantage.

It says something when you can say we are going through difficult times because you "only" have Ballack but no Lampard, Joe Cole but no Malouda, Alex and Belletti but no JT or Ferreira and no Mikel okay then how about Maka a legend to replace him? Yes that's really is scraping the bottom of the pit isn't it?

Yes we have had squad depletion but when you consider the options Grant has had available it's a joke to talk of a reserve squad struggling against the likes of a Wigan et al and how hard it must be for him to formulate a decent side. If he was playing Arse or Man you then yes I'd be more concerned but not the competition we've been facing over Christmas.

Mourinho was given no cover in January which he badly needed, when he asked for reinforcements he was told to sod off. Grant wanted a striker? Take you pick. He bought Anelka, the same Anelka that scored and gave an assist against Wigan. The squad cover purchased in the summer (Belletti, Alex, Sidwell and god help us Pizarro) that has helped Grant maintain that nice calm, stoic demenour you are raving about. No wonder he didn't complain, total support of the boss, can buy players during the transfer window to get him out of a hole if necessary and he a good quality players in reserve who will also be able to play in their correct positions. Throw in toothless opposition of the likes of Wigan, Newcastle, Fulham, QPR and your laughing.

Grant may have had it difficult but not half as difficult as some like to pretend.

We probably have the deepest squad in the premiership and the way we have coped without a blip merely confirms that. We have international players not only in our first team but very often in our second now as well.

Again., Blinkered people wont blame Jose for the problems we had last year. Why are your cribbing about Jose not having Players at his disposal...? It was Jose who let them leave....He let Huth leave and Bought a peice of crap in Boulahrouz "the cannibal" who couldnt even play at RB...Jose had no reasons to deplete the squad...It was his mistake and he had to cope up with it.

Now he learnt his mistake, and got Alex, and hes 3 other buys have been full of crap until l now....Absolutely crap. Sidwell, Pizzaro, and Benhaim....And your statement that the squad cover purchased has helped us stay alive in all 4 competitions is again pretty hollow. How many starts has sidwell had, Benhaim had and Pizzaro had in these last 2 months.??? The buys were soo crap that they werent even used in starting line up. Harldy may be 2-3 starts in last 2 months. Again another buy malouda has hit the injury scene in last 2 months, so your statment of Jose's buys this season has helped us stay ontop is baseless.

Now, Coming to your view of Jose not being allowed to buy players last january. How many matches did Chelsea win in last Christmas period, and how many have we won this season.??? And as far as I know Anelka has just 2 starts and one sub for Chelsea ever since he came. So its clear that he hasnt helped us all that much during our trying times...Our trying times were mainly till January first week, we had 2 games every week, and no Lampard, Drogba, Terry, Lampard. Anelka has come now....and not during the Christmas period.

And yes..we drew last season against, Reading at home, fulham at home and Aston Villa away....btw Aston villa was struggling last season, so was Fulham.

Anyways......I am not a fan of Grant. I just dont like it when people choose to see Jose's positive quality and Grant's negative quality. There has to be same yardstick to judge both the managers.

[pluto 0]

warnie

I don't think I suggested that Mourinho was blameless only that he did not have a change to get defensive cover when he needed it in the January transfer window and it is that cover now which has aided Grant immeasurably.

The Mourinho have bought generally have ably assisted us over Grant's entire tenure not just Christmas! But thinking recently, Pizarro scored the only goal which beat QPR I believe that kept us alive the that cup. Pizarro provided the assist for Kalou's offside goal against Newcastle at the death, without that I doubt he would have scored. TBH despite some dodgy games has also been needed and used, Sidwell to a much lesser extent but has been used and praised by Grant. It was Malouda's pass that got the goal for Joe against Everton, he also played very well I think in the first leg. to suggest these are full of crap and have not helped Grant at all is simply untrue. If he had not had Alex or TBH or Belletti which players would he be picking during those games with no JT et al around? May be playing people out of position like Mourinho did may be? These are squad players who have been used a lot when required due to injuries and they have indeed all helped us stay alive in 4 competitions in their own way!

I've already explained why I believe we did so well this Christmas bearing in mind the quality of the teams we faced and the comparative strenghts of our squad. Fulham were not in the relegation zone last year and had just sacked their manager! We did not have to play Villa away and Reading were far stronger last year than say a Newcastle this who were a team in crisis. The calibre of our opposition during the Christmas period was not as good and due to the purchases made in the summer our squad did not have to play people out of position and we had good cover to cope yes during the Christmas and January period! Ballack suddenly coming back for Lampard when injured was a real boon for Grant and he was in form too.

Although Grant has got the same record as Mourinho and is earning just praise for how he took over and maintained things I'm just not as impressed as you are that's all.

Why do people always assume if you are negative towards Grant that you think Mourinho is utterly blameless in everything? Not sure I ever said he was just pointed out that Mourinho correcting some of his yes mistakes for the past has been what has ably assisted Grant now. Grant has the support of the board and Mourinho did not at the end - that can a lot of change things.

Lets just agree to disagree then shall we?

Edited January 29, 2008 by pluto

[Elliott 7]

Now, Coming to your view of Jose not being allowed to buy players last january. How many matches did Chelsea win in last Christmas period, and how many have we won this season.??? And as far as I know Anelka has just 2 starts and one sub for Chelsea ever since he came. So its clear that he hasnt helped us all that much during our trying times...Our trying times were mainly till January first week, we had 2 games every week, and no Lampard, Drogba, Terry, Lampard. Anelka has come now....and not during the Christmas period.

I suspect there is a difference in what one considers the "Christmas period" here. For me, Christmas period = Boxing Day to first game of January. In that time, we got 3 points out of 9 last season, this time, 7 out of 9. So we did not win ANY games in the last Christmas period. And as for your Anelka comment, well that was utterly retarded, I'm sorry. He's made 2 starts and a sub apperance BECAUSE THAT'S ALL HE'S BEEN HERE TO MAKE! What the hell is your point there? He's scored a goal, provided at least one other than I can remember right now, and provided excellent attacking impetus. Okay, it's too soon to be lauding him as the saviour to all our problems, but he's certainly make an excellent contribution. And further more, as pluto said, whilst the likes of Tal Ben Haim and Pizarro haven't been fantastic, they have still played their part, because instead who would we be playing? Just these player's presence is enough to justify their purchases in times like these, and that is, presumably, down to Mourinho.

[bigbluewillie 1,806]

can i play,im 46 first game just a babby

yes mate 'course you can, although your still a youngster....welcome to "the old bastards blue's club" :thumbsup:

regards: JBD

Edited January 29, 2008 by josesbluediamonds

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

yes mate 'course you can, although your still a youngster....welcome to "the old bastards blue's club" :thumbsup:

regards: JBD

Hes but a young spring chicken.

'Grant equals Mourinhos record' brilliant. I reckon one of the teletubbies could have done a better job taking over from Mourinho.

[pluto 0]

I suspect there is a difference in what one considers the "Christmas period" here. For me, Christmas period = Boxing Day to first game of January. In that time, we got 3 points out of 9 last season, this time, 7 out of 9. So we did not win ANY games in the last Christmas period. And as for your Anelka comment, well that was utterly retarded, I'm sorry. He's made 2 starts and a sub apperance BECAUSE THAT'S ALL HE'S BEEN HERE TO MAKE! What the hell is your point there? He's scored a goal, provided at least one other than I can remember right now, and provided excellent attacking impetus. Okay, it's too soon to be lauding him as the saviour to all our problems, but he's certainly make an excellent contribution. And further more, as pluto said, whilst the likes of Tal Ben Haim and Pizarro haven't been fantastic, they have still played their part, because instead who would we be playing? Just these player's presence is enough to justify their purchases in times like these, and that is, presumably, down to Mourinho.

That's what I was trying to say thanks Elliott.

Look I don't want to get into a Grant v Jose pissing contest or annoy anyone because it's silly do that the past is the past. However, this thread is about comparing the two sets of results - the 28 games of Jose's v Grant and deciding how impressed we are or not by what Grant has achieved.

warnie seemed to be suggesting that the buys of Jose which he bought as cover for such an event we are experiencing now have either hardly helped at all or been total crap or have not played. Well I argue that over the period of Grant's reign they have indeed all proved useful - Alex and Belletti have been vital, Pizarro has chipped in the odd vital goal or assist, even Sidwell whom I would suggest has been the least used has been of help. TBH has okay not been stellar but he has not been Bhoula and has had reasonably good solid matches at times. If I have confused the Christmas period and just generally over the term when trying to explain my points then I'm sorry to warnie.

However, I stick by what I say in that Grant has benefitted from Mourinho's planning over the summer, finally getting the go ahead (too late for last season) to make vital squad purchases and Grant has been able to get through his time here much more favourably because of that. If these players were not available to Grant who would he be playing please tell? Would he be like Mourinho having to find someone or may be two players to play out of position? Would he possibly be struggling having to think about dipping into the youth squad? The same youth squad that Arnesen keeps working on but apparently baring no real fruit year after year?

If that is seen as taking away some of the credit unfairly by some fans from Grant then so be it.

I realise Mourinho did not do well over the Christmas period I'm not suggesting he did and Grant has done much better but I think there are reasons why Grant has seemingly had so much better results at some points in this season and especially over Christmas.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I agree with you Elliott that Grant has done better than expected when he first arrived but Warnie seems to be suggesting I should give him more respect than what I've done so far and that I'm not nearly giving him enough.

Okay so I was joking about the "nirvana" bit!

However, I'm sorry I give any more respect to Grant, simply upon the basis of what I've seen so far with the teams we have played and with the players we have used.

I do think he's done a good job and surprised many people I would not deny that but I'm still very unsure about the guy in terms of his managerial talent despite the run of results and how great he is with the press keeping things low key etc which I agree is much better than with Mourinho.

He is very quiet yes, which is good for keeping us out of the news for wrong reasons. But with Mourinho, it meant that the media focus was on him and not the club, so the players could do their business. Then TSO spat his dummy out when Roman didn't give him any money.

[warnie_666 1,081]

I suspect there is a difference in what one considers the "Christmas period" here. For me, Christmas period = Boxing Day to first game of January. In that time, we got 3 points out of 9 last season, this time, 7 out of 9. So we did not win ANY games in the last Christmas period. And as for your Anelka comment, well that was utterly retarded, I'm sorry. He's made 2 starts and a sub apperance BECAUSE THAT'S ALL HE'S BEEN HERE TO MAKE! What the hell is your point there? He's scored a goal, provided at least one other than I can remember right now, and provided excellent attacking impetus. Okay, it's too soon to be lauding him as the saviour to all our problems, but he's certainly make an excellent contribution. And further more, as pluto said, whilst the likes of Tal Ben Haim and Pizarro haven't been fantastic, they have still played their part, because instead who would we be playing? Just these player's presence is enough to justify their purchases in times like these, and that is, presumably, down to Mourinho.

Ok Elliot....coming back to Anelka, Pluto said tha Grant had the liberty to buy Anelka. I said fair enough. But you gotta see our team during the Christmas Period....Dint we win our matches then>? Wasnt that our most toughest period to cope? Did we have Anelka then? NO!!!...Anelka has come now, even against Tottenham game which was on 12th of January he came on as a sub. And we have played what? 3 games since then?....I never undermined Anelka's quality..you got that totally wrong buddy...My point was we coped during the Christmas period, without any NEW BUYS.....this when every one wondered how Chelsea's depleted squad would cope during the tough christmas period. Hence, Pluto's comment that Grant had the liberty to buy Anelka cus of which we have won games seems hollow to me.

Rant Ended....PEACE!!!!