Nathaniel Chalobah

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

He proved himself at Championship level though. I see no point in sending him back to a club on EXACTLY the same level when he could be part of our squad.

He plays in a position in which we're desperate for reinforcements, but Mourinho has decided to go in a different direction. If this kid can't make it then what chance do others have?

Maybe that's what the future of this club is. It used to be that players would come through the ranks and the supporters would have a connection with them, but that type of thing isn't important when your first priority is a worldwide tv audience. Who gives a fuck about a 'local guy done good' when the local fans simply aren't that important anymore.

I thought he had to go on loan, he only went to the Championship because there were no Premier League clubs after him for some reason. I don't think it's the Club's or Mourinho's fault on this one.

[lionsden 4,689]

Do you really think that he had many PL offers but chose to go to the championship instead? I do think he should have gone back to Watford, though, were he fit well last season, but the club decided that an extra 5k/wk was more important than his development unfortunately.

Or we could have grown a pair of balls like Juventus with pogba and Arsenal with Wilshere and actually use his services in the 1st team this season.especially given the paucity of quality in our CM position.

[lionsden 4,689]

people always say it's risky throwing youngsters into the deep end too early as it might stunt their growth/development but one could also argue that the knack of constantly loaning out players whilst buying established/talented overrated stars who play in the same position as them also blocks the progress of these youngsters and their path into the first team and often causes them to lose motivation as they know that no matter how well they play, they have little chance of consistently benching those expensive players ahead of them in the pecking order. lukaku being a great example of this atm.

Moreover there hasn't actually being many evidence of blooding youngsters too early backfiring. Nathan Ake never looked out of place last season and josh was magnificent under Ancelotti.

[The only place to be 11,313]

people always say it's risky throwing youngsters into the deep end too early as it might stunt their growth/development but one could also argue that the knack of constantly loaning out players whilst buying established/talented overrated stars who play in the same position as them also blocks the progress of these youngsters and their path into the first team and often causes them to lose motivation as they know that no matter how well they play, they have little chance of consistently benching those expensive players ahead of them in the pecking order. lukaku being a great example of this atm.

Moreover there hasn't actually being many evidence of blooding youngsters too early backfiring. Nathan Ake never looked out of place last season and josh was magnificent under Ancelotti.

Exactly. Ake looked better and better last season yet this season he's not got a single look-in. To me that is the worst thing you could do to his development.

What exactly are young players at our club supposed to aspire to? Especially when the fans of their club dismiss anything they do as unimportant because they haven't done it for Chelsea?

[lionsden 4,689]

Exactly. Ake looked better and better last season yet this season he's not got a single look-in. To me that is the worst thing you could do to his development.

What exactly are young players at our club supposed to aspire to? Especially when the fans of their club dismiss anything they do as unimportant because they haven't done it for Chelsea?

I would bet my mortgage on the possibility that Pogba would have suffered the Lukaku,Chalobah treatment had he joined us instead of Juventus and the irony of it all is that Juve actually had one of the best central midfield in Europe prior to Pogba joining them yet they still gave him sufficent game time despite having world class and established players like Pirlo, Vidal and marchisio ahead of him in the pecking order. could you imagine such scenario happenng at Chelsea? me neither.

And no one can use the small club, midtable team or low ambition argument as the reason why Juventus were able to successfully blood the young french man into the team neither.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Or we could have grown a pair of balls like Juventus with pogba and Arsenal with Wilshere and actually use his services in the 1st team this season.especially given the paucity of quality in our CM position.

One problem: Nathanial is no where near as good as Wilshere and Pogba were when they started playing for Arsenal and Juve. Plus, Wilshere had to be loaned to a PL club and shine there to get a chance with Arsenal while the situation in the Serie A is completely different from the PL when it comes to youth promotion.

It made absolutely no sense for Nathanial to stay, especially with MVG around who plays the same position and is only a couple of years older. Had he stayed, everyone would be criticizing the club for ruining his development by not loaning him out to get game time.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I would bet my mortgage on the possibility that Pogba would have suffered the Lukaku,Chalobah treatment had he joined us instead of Juventus and the irony of it all is that Juve actually had one of the best central midfield in Europe prior to Pogba joining them yet they still gave him sufficent game time despite having world class and established players like Pirlo, Vidal and marchisio ahead of him in the pecking order. could you imagine such scenario happenng at Chelsea? me neither.

And no one can use the small club, midtable team or low ambition argument as the reason why Juventus were able to successfully blood the young french man into the team neither.

Exactly. When we played United in the Youth Cup it was obvious that Chalobah and Pogba were a class above but Pogba has shown what putting a player around other quality players can do. Nat was massively impressive for much of last season at Watford, but he needs to be around better players now. Loaning him back to Forest is pointless when he needs a step-up in the quality he faces and plays around.

There's also the point that he might even make us a better team because that pivot still isn't good enough.

[lionsden 4,689]

One problem: Nathanial is no where near as good as Wilshere and Pogba were when they started playing for Arsenal and Juve. Plus, Wilshere had to be loaned to a PL club and shine there to get a chance with Arsenal while the situation in the Serie A is completely different from the PL when it comes to youth promotion.

It made absolutely no sense for Nathanial to stay, especially with MVG around who plays the same position and is only a couple of years older. Had he stayed, everyone would be criticizing the club for ruining his development by not loaning him out to get game time.

I disagree with the opening statement. Chalobah last season was every bit as good and talented as both players at similar stages of their career. Pogba wasn't even on the peripheral of first team at man utd. unless you can provide evidence that most people here rated him exceptionally highly and genuinely believed he was " first team ready" and could easily get into our team then it's safe to say that your opening remark is not the general consensus

Your point about Wilshere is moot as he went on loan to bolton for only one season and came back straight into the arsenal first team at the age of 18. . . . similar age as Chalobah and he wasn't just sitting on the bench only getting carling cup games neither. He was thrown into the deep end.

And your point regarding Van Ginkel is part of the problem. why buy Van ginkel if you already have Chalobah and Ake. who are, imho, more talented than the dutch. Arsenal could have easily bought a midfielder to block Jack's path into the first team and use that "it's risky to throw youngsters into the deep end" arguement to justify the decision regardless of how talented wilshere was/is.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I disagree with the opening statement. Chalobah last season was every bit as good and talented as both players at similar stages of their career. Pogba wasn't even on the peripheral of first team at man utd. unless you can provide evidence that most people here rated him exceptionally highly and genuinely believed he was " first team ready" and could easily get into our team then it's safe to say that your opening remark is not the general consensus

It rarely is with him.

Your point about Wilshere is moot as he went on loan to bolton for only one season and came back straight into the arsenal first team at the age of 18. . . . similar age as Chalobah and he wasn't just sitting on the bench only getting carling cup games neither. He was thrown into the deep end.

And that's the point - there was a culture of promoting youth at Arsenal. Yes it needed to be balanced with investment in the first-team so they could win trophies, but that's the balance that we need to find.

And your point regarding Van Ginkel is part of the problem. why buy Van ginkel if you already have Chalobah and Ake. who are, imho, more talented than the dutch. Arsenal could have easily bought a midfielder to block Jack's path into the first team and use that "it's risky to throw youngsters into the deep end" arguement to justify the decision regardless of how talented wilshere was/is.

Van Ginkel I can understand. Even Arsenal bought in Ramsay (and that belief in youth is certainly paying off).

It's the balance that we need to find where we compliment signings with developing youngsters, much like United founded their succes on.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I disagree with the opening statement. Chalobah last season was every bit as good and talented as both players at similar stages of their career. Pogba wasn't even on the peripheral of first team at man utd. unless you can provide evidence that most people here rated him exceptionally highly and genuinely believed he was " first team ready" and could easily get into our team then it's safe to say that your opening remark is not the general consensus

Your point about Wilshere is moot as he went on loan to bolton for only one season and came back straight into the arsenal first team at the age of 18. . . . similar age as Chalobah and he wasn't just sitting on the bench only getting carling cup games neither. He was thrown into the deep end.

And your point regarding Van Ginkel is part of the problem. why buy Van ginkel if you already have Chalobah and Ake. who are, imho, more talented than the dutch. Arsenal could have easily bought a midfielder to block Jack's path into the first team and use that "it's risky to throw youngsters into the deep end" arguement to justify the decision regardless of how talented wilshere was/is.

Pogba has been one of the highest rated prospects in the world from even before he joined utd. Anyone who follows youth football in England "rated him exceptionally high". Regardless of who "rates" who, Jack's ability on the ball at the age of 18 is in a different world than Chalobah and Pogba's physical presence and ability to influence the game was way ahead of Nathanial when he started playing for Juve. And Jack had a season in the PL which is an entire different universe than the championship.

Top teams never wait for anyone. If you expect a team like chelsea to not buy a player for a position they need because they're waiting for a youth player to develop then you're living in fairyland. The suggestion that Chalobah, let alone Ake, are better than MVG is just ridiculous, with all do respect. That's like saying Tod Kane is already better than Azpi! Marco is on a different level technically and tactically, not to mention his experience at a much higher level. Arsenal didn't "wait" for Wilshere; they had the likes of Song, Fabregas, Ramsey..etc but he forced himself into the team just like Pogba did at Juve.

Youth players will only get into a team if they are better than the available options for the team and good enough to be part of the team. That's why Wilshere and Pogba got into Arsenal and Juve and that's why Nathanial is on loan.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Reading Choulo's assessment of Chalobah reminds me of some of the stuff said about Pogba when he was struggling in the reserves at United.

Can't blame him though - maybe he's hoping lightening will strike twice and his club will end up with another highly-rated teenager from an English academy. Sorry Choulo but I can't see Nat joining you and your friends at Juve.

Drink up.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Reading Choulo's assessment of Chalobah reminds me of some of the stuff said about Pogba when he was struggling in the reserves at United.

Can't blame him though - maybe he's hoping lightening will strike twice and his club will end up with another highly-rated teenager from an English academy. Sorry Choulo but I can't see Nat joining you and your friends at Juve.

Drink up.

Of course not! He'll obviously be at the 2014 WC with the England squad because he's already better than Mikel and Ramires like you predicted last season

[The only place to be 11,313]

Of course not! He'll obviously be at the 2014 WC with the England squad because he's already better than Mikel and Ramires like you predicted last season

Is that the best you've got?

I said if he secured a decent loan this season and impressed (you really don't like it when I actually use the real words I used and not your lies) then he could be a late bolter for the squad.

A bit like Lallana...or Lambert....or Jay Rodriguez....or Ross Barkley....or Andros Townsend....none of these players was close to the squad before this season and only Barkley was realistically on many people's radars.

So why don't you just enjoy your pint....want it in a mug?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Is that the best you've got?

I said if he secured a decent loan this season and impressed (you really don't like it when I actually use the real words I used and not your lies) then he could be a late bolter for the squad.

A bit like Lallana...or Lambert....or Jay Rodriguez....or Ross Barkley....or Andros Townsend....none of these players was close to the squad before this season and only Barkley was realistically on many people's radars.

So why don't you just enjoy your pint....want it in a mug?

LOL, yeah whatever makes it less embarrassing for you.

BTW, I do love how you completely ignored the part about you saying that he was, last season, already better than Mikel and Ramires. That one was a classic!

[The only place to be 11,313]

LOL, yeah whatever makes it less embarrassing for you.

BTW, I do love how you completely ignored the part about you saying that he was, last season, already better than Mikel and Ramires. That one was a classic!

At the time I thought he was a far better option for us. I still think he'd be a better option than Mikel but Rami has stepped up his game.

Not embarrassed by that.

Drink your pint.