Chelsea Transfers

[1905didierblue 748]

Just now, Atomiswave said:

No I used it as an examlpe.......and I may be mistaken but we have no debt no? Didnt Roman clean that out years ago?

We are in debt to roman. 1.1billiom to be precise. It's an interest free debt, but a debt nonetheless. 

As for your case, yes the club has money is the coffers , it can incur some losses. 

But we also need to be clear of how FFP works. Which allows a loss of just 35mil€ over a 3 year window. So over buying will still need to be done within limits and depending on how much we have actually proffited. For eg, in 15/16 we had a net spend of just 3mil € (https://www.transfermarkt.co.in/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1)

And yet we incurred a massive loss of 85mil (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/01/premier-league-finances-club-by-club)

So it depends on the club's finances as a whole and not just of "net spend" as some would have it believe 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

1 minute ago, 1905didierblue said:

We are in debt to roman. 1.1billiom to be precise. It's an interest free debt, but a debt nonetheless. 

As for your case, yes the club has money is the coffers , it can incur some losses. 

But we also need to be clear of how FFP works. Which allows a loss of just 35mil€ over a 3 year window. So over buying will still need to be done within limits and depending on how much we have actually proffited. For eg, in 15/16 we had a net spend of just 3mil € (https://www.transfermarkt.co.in/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1)

And yet we incurred a massive loss of 85mil (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/01/premier-league-finances-club-by-club)

So it depends on the club's finances as a whole and not just of "net spend" as some would have it believe 

He still cleans it out though didnt he? In any case all Clubs have huge amounts of debt. And FFP is such horse shit man, otherwise city and psg would have fallen ill of it, yet nothing is going on, on that front.

Imo we can easily spend 200m come summer, easily. Marina doing it is another matter.

[1905didierblue 748]

10 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I am NOT a goddamn man

and you clearly have no clue about what a rolling window is in regards to FFP

I also am ONLY dealing with transfer fees in and out

in terms of balancing the books (especially players year over year salary load) I would need to have full access to the club's financials to give a down to the penny full accounting when you factor in wages (all staff, not just players), insurance, and other operating expenses such as all our physical plants, etc (not to mention revenues from ticket sales, lux box sales (both of those being shit due to our ageing stadium), image rights, merch sales, sponsorship fees coming in, telly revenues, cup, euro comp, and other league generated revenues etc)

DONE

WITH

THIS

 

Just in the post below I do talk about the rolling window, so ssshhh. Or wait, you just love babbling about things you seriously have no idea about.

Again, read the above post genius.

[1905didierblue 748]

4 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

He still cleans it out though didnt he? In any case all Clubs have huge amounts of debt. And FFP is such horse shit man, otherwise city and psg would have fallen ill of it, yet nothing is going on, on that front.

Imo we can easily spend 200m come summer, easily. Marina doing it is another matter.

True about debt and FFP. But we clearly seem to care a lot about it.

Again. True. I am saying we will spend somewhere around a 200m. It's the 500/600/700mil figure which I have a problem with. Specially when you are blaming the board for incompetence because the expectation itself is massively exaggerated. Our board might not be perfect, but they have done a wonderful job of turning the club into a self sufficient unit which just some years ago was all about Roman's wallet, meanwhile winning 2 PLs, 1 El, 1 fa cup in the last 5 years (in which we have a net of 6mil profit overall). Not a bad thing at all.

[Vesper 28,764]

4 minutes ago, 1905didierblue said:

Just in the post below I do talk about the rolling window, so ssshhh. Or wait, you just love babbling about things you seriously have no idea about.

Again, read the above post genius.

you talk about it but clearly do not understand it in the slightest

and your using Transfermarkt's posted numbers as a prima facie valuation for players and thus for the cumulative value of the club is LAUGHABLE

go out and try and buy players for those 'valuations'

roflmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

quit whilst you are behind

[Vesper 28,764]

3 minutes ago, 1905didierblue said:

True about debt and FFP. But we clearly seem to care a lot about it.

Again. True. I am saying we will spend somewhere around a 200m. It's the 500/600/700mil figure which I have a problem with. Specially when you are blaming the board for incompetence because the expectation itself is massively exaggerated. Our board might not be perfect, but they have done a wonderful job of turning the club into a self sufficient unit which just some years ago was all about Roman's wallet, meanwhile winning 2 PLs, 1 El, 1 fa cup in the last 5 years (in which we have a net of 6mil profit overall). Not a bad thing at all.

You damn well know that the 600/700 million figure was ONLY mentioned once and was IF we also sold Kante and Rudiger on top of ALL the rest and I already stated that there was zero chance of that happening and I did not condone it overall. It was only mentioned in response to another poster and was NOT at all my actual working figures, which I had posted in great detail multiple times.

Stop trying to false frame and gaslight

it is not a good look at all

[Atomiswave 6,072]

10 minutes ago, 1905didierblue said:

True about debt and FFP. But we clearly seem to care a lot about it.

Again. True. I am saying we will spend somewhere around a 200m. It's the 500/600/700mil figure which I have a problem with. Specially when you are blaming the board for incompetence because the expectation itself is massively exaggerated. Our board might not be perfect, but they have done a wonderful job of turning the club into a self sufficient unit which just some years ago was all about Roman's wallet, meanwhile winning 2 PLs, 1 El, 1 fa cup in the last 5 years (in which we have a net of 6mil profit overall). Not a bad thing at all.

Nahh no Club will spend that in 1 go, not feasable.

Yes they have done good job in that regard, but at the same time fucked up in other areas.

This summer will tell its own tale im sure.

[1905didierblue 748]

5 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Nahh no Club will spend that in 1 go, not feasable.

Yes they have done good job in that regard, but at the same time fucked up in other areas.

This summer will tell its own tale im sure.

Exactly what I have been saying mate.

Even expecting 400 or 500 mil is impossible for the club to spend. Irrespective of the amount of massive inflation, I think (not sure) but don't think any club has even broken the 300m barrier in a single window yet. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

3 minutes ago, 1905didierblue said:

Exactly what I have been saying mate.

Looking forward what Marina will conjure up......cuz we damn well all know we have issues here and there. Plenty players to replace.

Giroud Pedro Willy Alonso etc.....we got plenty to do. Will we act quick, will we get the deals done......much to do man.

[1905didierblue 748]

2 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Looking forward what Marina will conjure up......cuz we damn well all know we have issues here and there. Plenty players to replace.

Giroud Pedro Willy Alonso etc.....we got plenty to do. Will we act quick, will we get the deals done......much to do man.

Don't know why but I feel positive. 

I feel cech was brought in for this particular reason. To recognise the targets early. Once that is done, then I hope marina does not screw up. Let's hope.

[Vesper 28,764]

4 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Nahh no Club will spend that in 1 go, not feasable.

Yes they have done good job in that regard, but at the same time fucked up in other areas.

This summer will tell its own tale im sure.

I never suggested we spend anywhere near to those levels in this thread. Especially those ludicrous 600/700m  figures which is a spin up number that came from adding in a Rudiger and Kante sale that was only a one-off reply to another poster and was never included in my full accounting numbers.

what I DID say as possible targets were (way back on this thread and I did pull off Ake, as if we only sell one CB, and buy one, he is not needed, and IF we did sell two CB's I would go for BOTH Konate and Romagnoli, as Ake is too short and not close to those two levels, as I also stated in another reply on this thread)

 

Konate or Romagnoli £70m

Chillwell £70m

Declan Rice £70m (I say Camavinga for the future (Kante can so mentor him, as they are both French), or Thomas Partey (who is only £45m with his release clause) for NOW, but the club is hellbent on Rice, which remains to be seen who is right or wrong)

Sancho £120m (he MAY be a wee bit cheaper, but I am show conservative numbers here to prove my point)

Werner £25m (due to low release clause)

TOTAL COST  £345M

LETS SAY I AM 10% UNDER-PRICING on the total l that leaves the total cost at £380m

 

That is NOWHERE near 500/600/700 million quid

 

also that includes a HUGE 120m quid buy of Sancho, and IF (which is more than likely, unfortunately) we fail on buying him, you can pull around 50m quid OFF those totals as I do not rate spending more than 70m quid on anyother winger (other than the pipe dream deluxe of Mbappe, which is never going to happen)

so now, if no Sancho we are down to around £295m to £325m total spend, which even fits into Mr 'disappear £200m in revenues' kitty of 300m

that also includes £70m spent on Declan Rice, which may not even happen this summer of 2020,and TBH I would so much rather (as stated before so many times) go for Camavinga instead, who I think can be had for (this is a really rough estimate) around £50m.

Even WITH Sancho, the total then is only around £325 to £360m

 

If no Sancho, then only £275m to £305m TOTAL SPEND.

Finally IF we did buy Thomas for our hybrid CMF/DMF and passed on Rice and Camavinga, take another £5m OFF those figures even (as his release clause is only £45m)

 

I NEVER said to spend 600, 700m on this thread, that is tosh. On some posts a longish time ago post (regarding Mbappe) I did show he COULD have been purchased (even at close to 275-300m or so) but that was before we lost even more revenue on non sales due to bans and possible contract wind-downs and the bdget was nowhere near 700m (and agin was all ZERO net spend when dealing with fees in and out).

 

FINALLY

 

Having went back and forth for weeks (and this is subject to change)

I think we DO buy Chilwell (that is part of the good news)

I do NOT think we will sell Rudiger, Zouma, Kante at all (this is good too)

I also think that IF we do sell AC, we will buy (stupidly I think) Ake, and not even make moves on either Romagnoli or Konate.

I think we will try (and probably fail) to buy Sancho and  FOOLISHLY end up with Zaha for around £70m

I do NOT think we make moves for either Camavinga (sob) or Partey and it is 50/50 if he mover for Declan Rice this summer

I think we try (and again fail) on Werner, and I must say, at this point ,after hm, I have no clear favourite who we make a move for, maybe Lautaro Martínez???? (HARD pull as Conte loves him)

 

SO not counting a striker

and assuming we DO buy Zaha and Rice, Chilwell, Ake (and sell AC, otherwise no Ake buy)

that is around £250m gross spend (and obviously goes up a lot IF we buy a striker not named Werner (we are mad if we do not go all out for him at that price)

I could see us not even buying Rice and spending 50 to 70m instead on a striker which yields £230 to 250m gross spend as well

hell we may not even sell AC and buy NO CB's

the only positions I am dead red sure that we buy in are LB and RW and probably CF

 

 

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

21 hours ago, petre.ispirescu said:

When I think of freebies some great names come to my mind like Lewandowski, Pirlo, Ballack, even Milner turned out to be a great free transfer for Liverpool, I could also add Sol Campbell, Miro Klose and others I can't remember atm or I don't know of. 

But I think Christian Eriksen will be there in that list, too, in a few years. For me he is a must come next summer, sell Barkley he's useless anyway and bring Eriksen in. Or at least try. If he says no then fair enough, but Frank must try at least, he's simply too good to pass up. 

But where would Eriksen fit in though? Our midfield is already stacked as it is, even excluding Barkley - we have Jorginho, Kovacic, Kante, Mount and Loftus-Cheek - and there's already a tiny issue of how we do set up our midfield - Kovacic/Jorginho/Mount or Jorginho/Kante/Mount or Jorginho/Kante/Kovacic? And that's without even considering Loftus-Cheek. Mount seems to be the No.1 choice under Lampard and I don't think he's going to be dropped. If you move him out wide to the left, we would then have issues with Pulisic/CHO. Willian looks likely to stay (Lampard has been expressing his love for him) and IF we sign Sancho, then there doesn't seem to be any place to fit Eriksen in.

Moreover, while we all want 2 world class players for every position, I'm not sure how sustainable that is in the long run. Squad management would then be a major headache because everyone would want to play in the XI week in, week out and at some point down the line, players are gonna start making noise if they aren't playing every week and keep on getting rotated. Only Man City and Juventus arguably can boast to have WC or great players for every position (barring City's defence) but other big clubs have a decent balance between the first team players and backups who can do a good job when called upon but also okay with not playing every week. We need to get what Lampard wants and not just buy players for the sake of it. Otherwise, it could cause confusion and muddle things up in regards to how we want to play, set up etc. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

I never suggested we spend anywhere near to those levels in this thread. Especially those ludicrous 600/700m  figures which is a spin up number that came from adding in a Rudiger and Kante sale that was only a one-off reply to another poster and was never included in my full accounting numbers.

what I DID say as possible targets were (way back on this thread and I did pull off Ake, as if we only sell one CB, and buy one, he is not needed, and IF we did sell two CB's I would go for BOTH Konate and Romagnoli, as Ake is too short and not close to those two levels, as I also stated in another reply on this thread)

 

Konate or Romagnoli £70m

Chillwell £70m

Declan Rice £70m (I say Camavinga for the future (Kante can so mentor him, as they are both French), or Thomas Partey (who is only £45m with his release clause) for NOW, but the club is hellbent on Rice, which remains to be seen who is right or wrong)

Sancho £120m (he MAY be a wee bit cheaper, but I am show conservative numbers here to prove my point)

Werner £25m (due to low release clause)

TOTAL COST  £345M

LETS SAY I AM 10% UNDER-PRICING on the total l that leaves the total cost at £380m

 

That is NOWHERE near 500/600/700 million quid

 

also that includes a HUGE 120m quid buy of Sancho, and IF (which is more than likely, unfortunately) we fail on buying him, you can pull around 50m quid OFF those totals as I do not rate spending more than 70m quid on anyother winger (other than the pipe dream deluxe of Mbappe, which is never going to happen)

so now, if no Sancho we are down to around £295m to £325m total spend, which even fits into Mr 'disappear £200m in revenues' kitty of 300m

that also includes £70m spent on Declan Rice, which may not even happen this summer of 2020,and TBH I would so much rather (as stated before so many times) go for Camavinga instead, who I think can be had for (this is a really rough estimate) around £50m.

Even WITH Sancho, the total then is only around £325 to £360m

 

If no Sancho, then only £275m to £305m TOTAL SPEND.

Finally IF we did buy Thomas for our hybrid CMF/DMF and passed on Rice and Camavinga, take another £5m OFF those figures even (as his release clause is only £45m)

 

I NEVER said to spend 600, 700m on this thread, that is tosh. On some posts a longish time ago post (regarding Mbappe) I did show he COULD have been purchased (even at close to 275-300m or so) but that was before we lost even more revenue on non sales due to bans and possible contract wind-downs and the bdget was nowhere near 700m (and agin was all ZERO net spend when dealing with fees in and out).

 

FINALLY

 

Having went back and forth for weeks (and this is subject to change)

I think we DO buy Chilwell (that is part of the good news)

I do NOT think we will sell Rudiger, Zouma, Kante at all (this is good too)

I also think that IF we do sell AC, we will buy (stupidly I think) Ake, and not even make moves on either Romagnoli or Konate.

I think we will try (and probably fail) to buy Sancho and  FOOLISHLY end up with Zaha for around £70m

I do NOT think we make moves for either Camavinga (sob) or Partey and it is 50/50 if he mover for Declan Rice this summer

I think we try (and again fail) on Werner, and I must say, at this point ,after hm, I have no clear favourite who we make a move for, maybe Lautaro Martínez???? (HARD pull as Conte loves him)

 

SO not counting a striker

and assuming we DO buy Zaha and Rice, Chilwell, Ake (and sell AC, otherwise no Ake buy)

that is around £250m gross spend (and obviously goes up a lot IF we buy a striker not named Werner (we are mad if we do not go all out for him at that price)

I could see us not even buying Rice and spending 50 to 70m instead on a striker which yields £230 to 250m gross spend as well

hell we may not even sell AC and buy NO CB's

the only positions I am dead red sure that we buy in are LB and RW and probably CF

 

 

 

 

Ohh I never made such assumptions my friend........and im with you on this. I just wanna see ambition, Desire and the will to go get some quality. Not mbappe etc, thats a pipe dream. But Theres plenty good players out there that can slot right in and improve us. You can get 2-3 quality players for 200m.

[NikkiCFC 7,941]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Mount seems to be the No.1 choice under Lampard and I don't think he's going to be dropped.

I hope he's not undroppable because Kovacic/RLC offer more depending on opposition. Jorginho and Kante are undroppable for me at the moment. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

I hope he's not undroppable because Kovacic/RLC offer more depending on opposition. Jorginho and Kante are undroppable for me at the moment. 

At the same time, one could say Mount + Kovacic offer more than Kante depending on the opposition. Mount may not always look like he does much but he's key in linking our midfield and attack. Otherwise, we'll just end up with 2 endless ball passers in Kovacic & Jorginho, who don't get forward much, if at all, and Kante, who is hit and miss going forward. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

We are bloody 3rd with Mount being an essential player. Why are people moaning?

[NikkiCFC 7,941]

6 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

We are bloody 3rd with Mount being an essential player. Why are people moaning?

No one is moaning. He's being very quiet last seven games between two international breaks. According to Whoscored 6.91 has been his best rating in this period. He started the season very well but dropped in form recently. Many agreed with me here that RLC from last season is better player so I'm just curious to see what happens when he is back from injury... 

[Tomo 21,733]

11 hours ago, Jason said:

But where would Eriksen fit in though? Our midfield is already stacked as it is, even excluding Barkley - we have Jorginho, Kovacic, Kante, Mount and Loftus-Cheek - and there's already a tiny issue of how we do set up our midfield - Kovacic/Jorginho/Mount or Jorginho/Kante/Mount or Jorginho/Kante/Kovacic? And that's without even considering Loftus-Cheek. Mount seems to be the No.1 choice under Lampard and I don't think he's going to be dropped. If you move him out wide to the left, we would then have issues with Pulisic/CHO. Willian looks likely to stay (Lampard has been expressing his love for him) and IF we sign Sancho, then there doesn't seem to be any place to fit Eriksen in.

Moreover, while we all want 2 world class players for every position, I'm not sure how sustainable that is in the long run. Squad management would then be a major headache because everyone would want to play in the XI week in, week out and at some point down the line, players are gonna start making noise if they aren't playing every week and keep on getting rotated. Only Man City and Juventus arguably can boast to have WC or great players for every position (barring City's defence) but other big clubs have a decent balance between the first team players and backups who can do a good job when called upon but also okay with not playing every week. We need to get what Lampard wants and not just buy players for the sake of it. Otherwise, it could cause confusion and muddle things up in regards to how we want to play, set up etc. 

The trick to build a high quality depth of squad is find 3 players to compete high for two certain position's then if possible a squad filler as 4th choice who happily knows his place yet still has a big moment or two in them a season (ie the O Shea type). For example, in the two more defensive CM right now we have the perfect balance of Kova, Kante and Jorginho fighting for 2 spots between them, with the games we have and factoring injuries/suspensions there's more than enough minutes to keep all three happy.Frank is arguably going down this road at fullback now with James RB, Emerson LB and Azpi shifting between both.

At CM, CB and the wings we can comfortably get high quality depth and keep them all happy, ST will be tougher though.