Chelsea Transfers

[Vegetable 830]

4 minutes ago, Mhsc said:

Everyone losing their mind because of some rumours spread by a bunch of people that don't know fucking anything about what is actually being discussed. Probably half of the senior leadership of the clubs don't even know what is actually being discussed, never mind the fucking random cunts from Twitter. We might find out when it is all over what the real version of events was but for now it is all speculation. The guy that leaked that there is a "written document" is also a total nobody that is trying to create a name for himself and plug his youtube channel ffs.

Apparently they are holding the talks on the main square in Lisboa and provide live coverage to all interested 16 years old journalists on Twitter, just like every football transfer works.

To add, both sides are so "mad" and "disrespected" they will finish off with a gun duel on the same square in two days.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Vegetable

[bijitaq 9]

12 minutes ago, Vegetable said:

I'm not really sure if You are replying directly to me, as my opinion seem to be opposite of what most of people here think, but anyway. Again, Benfica is a club that needs to flip players, like 99% of clubs and I see zero offence in this. It's Benfica's right to put up ridiculous pricetag on players, Boehly's right to take it with a smile and offer what he sees more fit and Benfica's right again to take it or decline and again I see no drama in it. Don't get what's the whole "disrespect", big club, small club emotionality is about - that's how transfer market work. Benfica would be fools not to try to capitalize on current situation, but Boehly would be just as foolish and desperate to fall for it.

For one final time, I just can't get why people went absolute apeshit for a player they didn't know existed two months ago and demand to overpay few times for him, especially given there is no Madrid, City and PSG in line, just two sides of negotiation. He does great for Benfica, but for any other club he is a total gamble.

That's where we differ. I don't think that's how transfer market work. I don't think it's normal behavior to say to the seller that you will meet the asking price and then after negotiating with the player to low ball an offer and use the player and his agent to pressure us to sell cheaper than initially agreed. Also, if Enzo finishes the season the way he started many clubs will come to the table for him. You talk about him like he's some fringe player that Chelsea found out and has no interest from anywhere else in the market. Lot's of clubs asked about him already but when they heard we weren't selling bellow the 120M release clause they did the right thing and pulled out. Strange that "this is how the market works" but Chelsea was the only club acting poorly in this situation.    

[bijitaq 9]

24 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Last time we dealt you guys got Matic and then we end up buying back for a higher price. 

Would have been great to take advantage and get some player from us on the cheap. I think if you ask for Gallagher I'm sure we would cave in and send him over to Benfica. 

That could make sense but it's now a matter of principle. If you ask 100 Benfica fans right now if we should sell one cent bellow the release clause price tag 99 will say not to sell. I can see us in the summer window being open to that kind of a transfer, also because 25% of the money of the sale will go to River Plate, so including a player or two wouldn't be bad for us. 

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

3 hours ago, TheHulk said:

Hopefully we see more of this tonight, had enough of this shit since the summer. 

If this happens tonight I'll give a bollock. No ones protesting over a transfer 

[Vegetable 830]

10 minutes ago, bijitaq said:

That's where we differ.

Respect to disagree 

11 minutes ago, bijitaq said:

 I don't think it's normal behavior to say to the seller that you will meet the asking price and then after negotiating with the player to low ball an offer and use the player and his agent to pressure us to sell cheaper than initially agreed. 

Are we even sure this is what happened? There were reports of him being offered pay rise he declined like 4 days before being supposedly done deal and even when it supposedly collapsed for the first time it was reported "Collapsed, but Benfica still open for a new offer" so only thing I know is english-speaking sources know shit and as much as Benfica has right to pull out, Boehly also had right to change his mind and come up with more reasonable offer, take it or leave it

14 minutes ago, bijitaq said:

Also, if Enzo finishes the season the way he started many clubs will come to the table for him. You talk about him like he's some fringe player that Chelsea found out and has no interest from anywhere else in the market. Lot's of clubs asked about him already but when they heard we weren't selling bellow the 120M release clause they did the right thing and pulled out.

100% agree on this, but that's what business risk is. Take lower prize or gamble and win or lose. A lot can happen in half of season. I'm mainly concerned because PSG, Real and so on are doing better business than us and if they were 100% sold on him, they would go for him now. If they decide to gamble and wait, they have a reason or different approach to risk assessment. And actually yes, I see him as a fringe player. If I knew he can deliver season to season in top 4 league, I'd have a completely different approach.

You don't always get what you want, either cash or players, that's life in all it's glory

[Vegetable 830]

Dunno, but I always thought point of buying wonderkids is because they are rough but promising you get them young and reasonably priced.

If we have 130 mil to burn painlessly and expect immediate effect, maybe it's better to take a part of this sum and call De Bruyne whether he didn't left anything in the locker room at Cobham? 

[bijitaq 9]

5 minutes ago, Vegetable said:

Respect to disagree 

And actually yes, I see him as a fringe player. If I knew he can deliver season to season in top 4 league, I'd have a completely different approach.

You don't always get what you want, either cash or players, that's life in all it's glory

You can see him as whatever you want. All we want if he's not too much to ask is that maybe the Chelsea representatives can try not to behave like scumbags. 

[YorkshireBlue 3,341]

1 hour ago, bijitaq said:

You can see him as whatever you want. All we want if he's not too much to ask is that maybe the Chelsea representatives can try not to behave like scumbags. 

Yeah because all of benficas money was made doing charity work 🤣🤣.

[milka 3,407]

 

[bijitaq 9]

31 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Yeah because all of benficas money was made doing charity work 🤣🤣.

It wasn't made from going back on our word and then manipulating a 21 year old to miss practices so the club has to sell him at a cheaper prince. Thats scumbag behavior. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by bijitaq

[TheHulk 2,636]

Have some shame at least you paid for Cucushit almost the same as you offered for Enzo, all this while we need a top midfielder, what clueless person.

[YorkshireBlue 3,341]

19 minutes ago, TheHulk said:

Have some shame at least you paid for Cucushit almost the same as you offered for Enzo, all this while we need a top midfielder, what clueless person.

🤦

[Vesper 31,037]

20 minutes ago, TheHulk said:

Quote

“Chelsea are being disciplined with their outlay. 

[Superblue 6,372]

29 minutes ago, TheHulk said:

Have some shame at least you paid for Cucushit almost the same as you offered for Enzo, all this while we need a top midfielder, what clueless person.

Jesus Christ, I've only just jumped on here after last night and had to trawl through half a dozen pages of rambling and moaning.

The Benfica side is saying we offered one thing and now something else.

The Chelsea side (Matt Law today, but particularly David Ornstein all along) is saying that the figures being put out there were never offered and we're sticking to our own valuations of the player.

You clearly believe the Benfica side, probably because you're pissed off that the potential transfer has collapsed.

But the facts are none of us were there, so it's all just assumption at present and when two sides of a story are wildly different the truth is usually something in the middle. 

Whilst I'd love us to buy Enzo, I also don't want us being mugged off in the market and paying over players valuations. We did enough of that in the summer, the club needs to at times make a stand and ensure it's being run financially sound moving forward. Whether we like it or not, THAT is more important for the long term future than any player potentially being bought or not.

[laura90 556]

It's not that they wont pay as much for one player. I told you they wont when everyone were saying  they will.

It's that they wasted 300 mil of money  intended for development of club and stadium on trash. Literally they wasted 300 millions with wages half of billion on players everyone who watches football knew were past it, not good enough, too risk players. Anyone who saw KK in CL new he would get caught in PL.  Fofana was damage goods after his injury. Auba was too old for PL and Cucurela was considered back up material from City. Sterling was past it and it was evident he wont have it as easy as in Man City. Just look Arsenal. That youngster is more efficient than Jesus.  Truth is, if you can't make it as attacker in City, hardly you will anywhere in PL.

They literally wasted so much money to set this club back. It will get them lower bottom place on the table for foreseeable future.  

We are so heading on the Arsenal route. But this cash cow wont be nearly as payable. 

I am so disappointed with people running this club. Been quite some time. I can't see the light yet. It's heartbreaking, knowing it will take miracle to support the great team again due to money wasted on hideous signings.

Edited January 5, 2023 by laura90

[Vesper 31,037]

1 minute ago, Superblue said:

Jesus Christ, I've only just jumped on here after last night and had to trawl through half a dozen pages of rambling and moaning.

The Benfica side is saying we offered one thing and now something else.

The Chelsea side (Matt Law today, but particularly David Ornstein all along) is saying that the figures being put out there were never offered and we're sticking to our own valuations of the player.

You clearly believe the Benfica side, probably because you're pissed off that the potential transfer has collapsed.

But the facts are none of us were there, so it's all just assumption at present and when two sides of a story are wildly different the truth is usually something in the middle. 

Whilst I'd love us to buy Enzo, I also don't want us being mugged off in the market and paying over players valuations. We did enough of that in the summer, the club needs to at times make a stand and ensure it's being run financially sound moving forward. Whether we like it or not, THAT is more important for the long term future than any player potentially being bought or not.

they had discussions over payments based off the €120m (£105m) release clause, or perhaps a little added to compensate (€127-130m or so)

but then, when we did make an official offer, it was for €85m (£74m)

there is no way to spin that in any way that doesn't make us look like arrogant and untrustworthy cunts

we embarrassed ourselves by making an offer €35m under what was told to us for the minimum (i.e. the RC) sale price

 

 

[TheHulk 2,636]

13 minutes ago, Vesper said:

they had discussions over payments based off the €120m (£105m) release clause, or perhaps a little added to compensate (€127-130m or so)

but then, when we did make an official offer, it was for €85m (£74m)

there is no way to spin that in any way that doesn't make us look like arrogant and untrustworthy cunts

we embarrassed ourselves by making an offer €35m under what was told to us for the minimum (i.e. the RC) sale price

 

 

So many people are now like I'm happy we didn't overpay, happy we learnt from summer! when in reality Boehly was gonna discuss the 120M in installment until he saw Enzo was forcing a move and missing training which made smug American think he can lower the price. Of course it back fired and now they pretend it was all "We won't be held to ransom!" bullshit gimmick. 

We will overpay for that manwhore from Shakhtar and everyone will come and say I think paying 20M over Arsenal was the right decision, the guy has world class potential, etc, etc

Edited January 5, 2023 by TheHulk

[Vesper 31,037]

7 minutes ago, TheHulk said:

So many people are now like I'm happy we didn't overpay, happy we learnt from summer! when in reality Boehly was gonna discuss the 120M in installment until he saw Enzo was forcing a move and missing training which made smug American think he can lower the price. Of course it back fired and now they pretend it was all "We won't be held to ransom!" bullshit gimmick. 

We will overpay for that manwhore from Shakhtar and everyone will come and say I think paying 20M over Arsenal was the right decision, the guy has world class potential, etc, etc

I cannot believe we are becoming even worse at transfers AND contracts than we were the last few years of Roman and Marina regime, but here we are (other than the U21 buys)

FUCK

Edited January 5, 2023 by Vesper

[OhForAGreavsie 6,125]

1 hour ago, Superblue said:

Jesus Christ, I've only just jumped on here after last night and had to trawl through half a dozen pages of rambling and moaning.

The Benfica side is saying we offered one thing and now something else.

The Chelsea side (Matt Law today, but particularly David Ornstein all along) is saying that the figures being put out there were never offered and we're sticking to our own valuations of the player.

You clearly believe the Benfica side, probably because you're pissed off that the potential transfer has collapsed.

But the facts are none of us were there, so it's all just assumption at present and when two sides of a story are wildly different the truth is usually something in the middle. 

Whilst I'd love us to buy Enzo, I also don't want us being mugged off in the market and paying over players valuations. We did enough of that in the summer, the club needs to at times make a stand and ensure it's being run financially sound moving forward. Whether we like it or not, THAT is more important for the long term future than any player potentially being bought or not.

👏

Two things especially make me sit up and take notice of the reactions I am reading: -

1) Reactions which condemn 'the board' despite accepting that a clear picture of what is going on can't be pieced together. They seem to be saying we don't really know what's happening but we know Chelsea are wrong.

2) Continuation of demands that, when selling, Chelsea accept whatever offers are made and that, when buying, Chelsea should just 'pay the asking price'. 

[Vesper 31,037]

Is Chelsea target Enzo Fernandez worth £105million after so few senior matches?

https://theathletic.com/4054592/2023/01/05/enzo-fernandez-worth-transfer/

Breakthrough seasons don’t get more dizzying than the ride Enzo Fernandez has been on since signing for Benfica from River Plate in a deal worth €14million (£12.3m) in July.

Within the space of six months, the 21-year-old went his first 22 matches unbeaten with his new club, announcing himself on the European stage by shining in midfield as Benfica topped a Champions League group featuring Paris Saint-Germain and Juventus, then broke into Argentina’s starting XI during the World Cup and immediately established himself as an indispensable contributor to a historic triumph in Qatar.

Having deservedly walked away with the FIFA Young Player of the Tournament award, Fernandez is now second only to the Borussia Dortmund sensation Jude Bellingham in the ranks of the most-coveted young midfielders in the world. Chelsea have been particularly proactive in the early days of January as they search for a high-level successor to Jorginho, who is set to become a free agent in the summer.

Benfica, who are under no obligation or financial duress to sell, have made it clear they will not part with Fernandez for any less than the value of his €120million (£105million) release clause. Even by the standards of aggressive spending that Todd Boehly and Clearlake Capital have set since their acquisition of Chelsea last May, it would be a jaw-dropping outlay on a player with little more than 100 professional appearances for club and country to his name.

So the key question is: just how special is Fernandez? Is he really worth that kind of transfer fee?

Any data-led analysis of Fernandez quickly runs into the issue of small sample size; he simply hasn’t played enough high-level football for clubs to comprehensively model his strengths and weaknesses and confidently predict the player he can become. With that important disclaimer noted, the advanced numbers from his 14 Primeira Liga appearances for Benfica indicate a talent that merits the close attention of Europe’s elite teams.

Using Smarterscout, which can create a statistical profile of a footballer using ratings from zero to 99 to show how often they perform a specific action compared to others playing in their position or how effective they are at it, we can see that Fernandez projects as an exceptional progressive midfield playmaker who has the ability to impact matches defensively.

Many of those attributes were on display in the World Cup final against France — by far the biggest match of Fernandez’s career. For more than an hour, he provided the passing foundation and defensive balance for Argentina’s total control against the defending champions. Then, once momentum shifted and Kylian Mbappe led a remarkable fightback, he played an integral role in weathering the storm and powering a thrilling extra-time push.

Fernandez was helped by the fact France under Didier Deschamps do not often hunt the ball high up, but he also gave them little encouragement whenever they did try to press. Here, with six French players near him in the Argentina half, Fernandez recognises that Angel Di Maria will immediately be pressured by Mbappe and Adrien Rabiot if he receives the obvious pass — so, instead, he skips him out, clipping the ball into the space ahead of Nahuel Molina…

When given more space to receive the ball in midfield, Fernandez showcased the ability to quickly turn defence into attack. Here, a sharp pass from Cristian Romero finds him free behind Antoine Griezmann…

… and with minimal touches to control and pivot, he swiftly looks up and floats a precise ball out towards an unmarked Nicolas Tagliafico on the left touchline…

Later in the game, with a resurgent France now level, he advances over the halfway line with the ball at his feet and uses the presence of two team-mates to his left to disguise a pass through the opposition midfield to Julian Alvarez. The aim here — as it was with virtually every Argentina attack at the World Cup — is to get Lionel Messi involved as quickly as possible…

On this occasion, Messi is stifled and France counter quickly but, 10 seconds later, Fernandez has worked back effectively enough to help pressure Marcus Thuram into the least immediately dangerous option — a pass out to Mbappe on the left flank…

Fernandez never neglected his defensive responsibilities at the base of Argentina’s midfield, and his contributions without the ball became more important as fatigue grew for both teams. His reading of danger was evidenced early in the first half.

Here, Ousmane Dembele lays the ball back and Fernandez anticipates that the next pass is heading towards Griezmann…

… and he closes the distance quickly to make a perfectly-timed tackle…

In the opening minutes of the second half, as Nicolas Otamendi’s loose touch pops up into the air, Fernandez is already on the move towards Mbappe, who is well positioned to capitalise if the French substitute Randal Kolo Muani wins his header…

Kolo Muani does just that, but almost as soon as Mbappe brings the ball under control, Fernandez gets in front of him, eventually conceding a corner kick…

In the manic exchanges that followed in extra time, Fernandez is dispossessed inside his own half, under pressure from Thuram and Kolo Muani…

Kolo Muani races away to the edge of the Argentina penalty area but, before he can threaten the goal, the recovering Fernandez hooks a leg to take the ball away…

Then there was Fernandez’s most-important defensive contribution of the match: popping up in his own box in the final seconds to brilliantly poke the ball away from Mbappe who, having already scored a hat-trick, has beaten two Argentina defenders and is shaping up to score the winner…

Argentina’s triumph will be remembered primarily as the definitive affirmation of Messi’s greatness, but it isn’t an exaggeration to suggest that Fernandez’s introduction from the bench against Mexico in the group stage — and the subsequent re-balancing of Lionel Scaloni’s midfield around him — changed the trajectory of their World Cup, providing the platform to deliver the ball to the game’s greatest player in positions where he could be at his most decisive.

Perhaps it should have been more obvious to Scaloni from the outset that Fernandez was ready to play this role, given his performances for Benfica in the Primeira Liga — they top the table by five points ahead of Porto — and an impressive Champions League group stage in the first half of the season.

Benfica emerged unbeaten from Group H, edging out PSG for top spot after two 1-1 draws with the French champions and beating a jaded Juventus team home and away. Fernandez started all four of those matches, operating in a double midfield pivot alongside Florentino Luis, providing a blend of control and creativity in possession and defensive diligence out of it.

These meetings with Juventus and PSG also offered useful indicators of how Fernandez might cope with more intense, sustained midfield pressure; contrasting the slower pace of international football. Here, in the home match against Juventus, he receives a pass from the right touchline with two opponents ready to pounce on a poor touch…

Fernandez instead uses his first touch to chop the ball away from the advancing opponent, before sending a quick pass left with the outside of his right foot, enabling Benfica to advance the ball into space and send their opposition into retreat…

Mixed in with Fernandez’s shorter, more subtle passes are incisive longer ones. His accurate switches of play from left to right have become a feature of Benfica’s possession this season and, perhaps aware of that threat in the same game against Juventus, he instead floats a pass over the right of the opposing full-back into the path of a runner…

Fernandez’s most eye-catching performance of all might have been in the 1-1 draw with PSG at Parc des Princes in October. Benfica had just 38 per cent of possession and were required to defend for long periods and make the most of their limited time on the ball. Their star midfielder was crucial to them achieving both.

Here, 10 minutes in, Fernandez reads that Sergio Ramos is about to win the ball — and that the lightning-fast Achraf Hakimi has space to attack…

Fernandez shuffles quickly to cut off the wing-back’s run, standing up his opponent and ultimately winning the ball cleanly when Hakimi tries to knock it past him…

On the ball, Fernandez completed 90 per cent of his passes, and they were not all the safe option of going sideways or backwards. Here, he spots and executes a first-time pass with the outside of his right foot through a narrow gap between two PSG players, taking four opponents out of the game and giving Benfica the platform to attack…

In the second half, Fernandez is on the ball facing away from the goal and appears as if he is about to pass back to one of his defenders — something the PSG attackers are certainly expecting…

But, having sold them the backwards pass, Fernandez quickly steps over the ball, spins and rattles a sharp pass between two more PSG players into the feet of his more advanced team-mate situated between the lines…

Fernandez also demonstrates good instincts in finding advantageous situations for his team. Receiving a pass from the left touchline against Juventus in Turin, the standard play for a lot of midfielders here would be to open up the body and play to the right, either with a short pass or a longer switch of play…

But, before the ball comes to him, Fernandez anticipates an onrushing opponent is giving his team a potential two vs one on the left. So he simply steps onto the ball, rolls it under his right foot and quickly sends it back where it came from…

Fernandez looks like an elite midfield playmaker in the making, and a comparison with positional peers outside Europe’s top five leagues over the past 365 days on fbref.com places him in the 90th percentile or above for assists (0.2), expected assisted goals (0.22), shot-creating actions (4.67), passes attempted (97.4) and progressive passes (9.4) per 90 minutes, as well as the 77th percentile for tackles (2.5) per 90 minutes.

These stats, on top of impactful performances against high-level Champions League opposition and a key role in the emotional cauldron of a World Cup final, show why Chelsea and other elite clubs are casting admiring glances in Fernandez’s direction.

---

But the key question remains: how much is Fernandez actually worth?

The best answer, though hardly satisfying, is that the market will determine his value. Right now, Benfica are in a strong position to insist on no less than the full amount of his release clause — though Fernandez appears to be doing all he can to weaken their stance. It will take a high level of urgency (or desperation, depending on your perspective) to prise him away.

Look down the list of football’s most-expensive transfers and the fees tend to tell you more about the buying clubs than about the quality of the players involved…

It also reads like a litany of disappointment. This is in part because the finances involved often set the bar for success almost impossibly high. In a sport consisting of 11-man teams, how many individual players are impactful enough to be worth in excess of £100million?

If paid, Benfica’s asking price would make Fernandez the most-expensive Premier League player ever. His rapid rise to international prominence means there is nowhere near enough data to be anything close to certain — but there is a real chance he could be one of the finest midfielders of his generation, capable of influencing every aspect of top-level matches for the next decade or longer.

Yet, the problem will be that if Chelsea agree to pay €120million for Fernandez, they can’t afford for him to be anything less.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Vesper