Kai Havertz

[Pizy 18,368]

So you guys really look at Havertz's YouTube highlights and see a CF? Because I absolutely don't. I see instance after instance of him carrying the ball from the middle of the pitch, dribbling past players, shielding it with his considerable size, bursting into the box, and scoring while arriving late.

He looks to me like a hybrid #8/#10. Similar to Pogba or Yaya Toure. Kills you in that area between the halfway line and the edge of the box.

[Tomo 21,733]

Just now, Jason said:

I get that but Giroud also gives up a different option upfront, providing us something different from Abraham, Werner or even Havertz. 

For the sake of argument, if we do sell Giroud and get Havertz, how then are you gonna juggle game time without hurting their development between Abraham, Havertz and maybe even Werner upfront?

Here is the thing I find it ironic, we are all into youth this season and happy for them to play and help us get back to where we want. But now that we can buy again, people want us to go buy, buy and buy every player possible out there, even when we don't necessarily need to, at the risk of hurting the development of those young players. Why? Do people just not care about ensuring we have a balanced team? Or do people just want to stack our team for the heck of it? 

I think most people want a balance between the two (star signing's and youth promotion), that's how Liverpool have become what they are. 

Furthermore, if Havertz did end up signing and my hunch of him being CF is correct the only academy lad that is affected in terms of game time is Abraham, who the majority don't even think is good enough to be the main man and see him as a rotation player. To add even further not all our lads have to be bonafide starters, some horses for courses Darren Fletcher esque types are perfectly fine too and will allow us to focus on star signings in the market over squad fillers.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

I think most people want a balance between the two (star signing's and youth promotion), that's how Liverpool have become what they are. 

Youth promotion? Liverpool? Pretty sure TAA is the only one from their academy who is playing consistently in the first team right now. The rest are on the fringes at best. And they wanted to sign Werner before this pandemic happened.

2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Furthermore, if Havertz did end up signing and my hunch of him being CF is correct the only academy lad that is affected in terms of game time is Abraham, who the majority don't even think is good enough to be the main man and see him as a rotation player. To add even further not all our lads have to be bonafide starters, some horses for courses Darren Fletcher esque types are perfectly fine too and will allow us to focus on star signings in the market over squad fillers.

But what people think of Abraham doesn't matter here, does it? Lampard seems to be happy with him and his comments earlier suggested that Werner may compete with him for that ST position. Plus, if we're gonna spend 80-100 million on a player, there's no way we would be rotating him with someone else. He would be in the starting XI more often than not. 

[Tomo 21,733]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

Youth promotion? Liverpool? Pretty sure TAA is the only one from their academy who is playing consistently in the first team right now. The rest are on the fringes at best. And they wanted to sign Werner before this pandemic happened.

Joe Gomes too. The main reason they're where they are is their defense, which is a combo of big money and youth (and Robertson).

[Jase 43,479]

8 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Joe Gomes too. The main reason they're where they are is their defense, which is a combo of big money and youth (and Robertson).

Liverpool got Joe Gomez from Charlton. And IIRC, he doesn’t play every game either. 

[Tomo 21,733]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

Liverpool got Joe Gomez from Charlton. And IIRC, he doesn’t play every game either. 

He has injury issues but is always picked when fit. Didn't he arrive really young though? I tend to class players as a academy player if they play for the club at development level.

[King Kante 1,476]

42 minutes ago, Pizy said:

So you guys really look at Havertz's YouTube highlights and see a CF? Because I absolutely don't. I see instance after instance of him carrying the ball from the middle of the pitch, dribbling past players, shielding it with his considerable size, bursting into the box, and scoring while arriving late.

He looks to me like a hybrid #8/#10. Similar to Pogba or Yaya Toure. Kills you in that area between the halfway line and the edge of the box.

I agree. I also find it mystifying that Harvetz has only been playing CF because of an injury but everyone seems to think he is a CF. 

I have said it before but if he came in he would play as an No.8/No.10 so would either be in the middle three in a 433 or in the hole in a 4231. The problem however is that to a degree Barkley, Mount and RLC also all play that role. In my opinion, for Harvetz to happen we would have to sell Barkley and Mount or Harvetz would probably have to transition to a No.6; which I think is possible as Mount did play No6, while when Harvetz first broke in at 17 he was playing further back as a sort of No6/No8. 

[Tomo 21,733]

2 minutes ago, King Kante said:

I agree. I also find it mystifying that Harvetz has only been playing CF because of an injury but everyone seems to think he is a CF. 

Thierry Henry was initially a winger but circumstances gave him a shot up front and the rest is history. Whether by accident or design is largely irrelevant, the point is he's gone up a gear since playing there.

Anyway i don't think this will be our problem, i pray he doesn't end up at Liverpool as he's the perfect Firmino successor. 

[Pizy 18,368]

18 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Thierry Henry was initially a winger but circumstances gave him a shot up front and the rest is history. Whether by accident or design is largely irrelevant, the point is he's gone up a gear since playing there.

Anyway i don't think this will be our problem, i pray he doesn't end up at Liverpool as he's the perfect Firmino successor. 

Luckily, they'd probably have to sell one of Mané or Salah to afford him. I hope...

[Clockwork 1,794]

More or less Havertz seems very similar to Firmino.

[communicate 2,703]

6 hours ago, Pizy said:

Luckily, they'd probably have to sell one of Mané or Salah to afford him. I hope...

They need to move firmino 

[Jase 43,479]

7 hours ago, Tomo said:

He has injury issues but is always picked when fit. Didn't he arrive really young though? I tend to class players as a academy player if they play for the club at development level.

He joined them at 18 and went straight into the first team. 

[Vesper 28,802]

31 minutes ago, communicate said:

They need to move firmino 

I so doubt they do it, but I have a serious hard time thinking they have no money

they have a large, always being expanded stadium that is constantly being upgraded

they have massive prize moneys run

they do not crazy salaries

they have billionaire owners

and they are in need to some upgrades as the age out

they really need a great AMF, they have shit there

they are carrying a fair amount of dregs

  
Dejan Lovren 
Nathaniel Clyne  (I guess oki for a backup for another season or 2) 
James Milner    he turns 35 midseason
Ovie Ejaria    
Adam Lallana    
Xherdan Shaqiri   <<<< they already have his replacement, the coming back from loan Harry Wilson
Sheyi Ojo    
Divock Origi    <<< they are forced to keep him atm, he is not a terrible player (unlike Bats)

they really need that AMF (Lallana is leaving so they have NONE),and another CB (Lovren is doghsit)

not that I want him there, but they literally are bonkers to not be chasing Havertz harder than most any other player

there is zero reason for them to have to sell shit to buy him, they bought fuckall the last 2 windows, plus have all that prize cash

the only way I would touch the front 3 this window is IF they think they could sell Salah or Mane and guaranteed bring in Sancho

this is the last window they will get over 100m for either, as Mane turns 30 during the 2021-2022 season, and Salah turns 30 right after it ends

I just cant see a club dumping over 100m quid in summer 2021 on a 29, soon 30yo winger not named CR7 or Messi

I also think they have issues with trying to get Sancho to go there overall as it is Liverpool, but I may be wrong

 

 

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

3 hours ago, Clockwork said:

More or less Havertz seems very similar to Firmino.

I agree. And I also share the same view of our German residents of this forum, I believe he is the perfect hybrid between a centre forward and a false 9, I think he is more influential in that area of the pitch than on the wings or in a midfield 3.

False 9/free roam 10 I believe suits him best.

[communicate 2,703]

53 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I so doubt they do it, but I have a serious hard time thinking they have no money

they have a large, always being expanded stadium that is constantly being upgraded

they have massive prize moneys run

they do not crazy salaries

they have billionaire owners

and they are in need to some upgrades as the age out

they really need a great AMF, they have shit there

they are carrying a fair amount of dregs

  
Dejan Lovren 
Nathaniel Clyne  (I guess oki for a backup for another season or 2) 
James Milner    he turns 35 midseason
Ovie Ejaria    
Adam Lallana    
Xherdan Shaqiri   <<<< they already have his replacement, the coming back from loan Harry Wilson
Sheyi Ojo    
Divock Origi    <<< they are forced to keep him atm, he is not a terrible player (unlike Bats)

they really need that AMF (Lallana is leaving so they have NONE),and another CB (Lovren is doghsit)

not that I want him there, but they literally are bonkers to not be chasing Havertz harder than most any other player

there is zero reason for them to have to sell shit to buy him, they bought fuckall the last 2 windows, plus have all that prize cash

the only way I would touch the front 3 this window is IF they think they could sell Salah or Mane and guaranteed bring in Sancho

this is the last window they will get over 100m for either, as Mane turns 30 during the 2021-2022 season, and Salah turns 30 right after it ends

I just cant see a club dumping over 100m quid in summer 2021 on a 29, soon 30yo winger not named CR7 or Messi

I also think they have issues with trying to get Sancho to go there overall as it is Liverpool, but I may be wrong

 

 

I disagree. don't think they are chasing Havertz unless they move firmino. I assume here that Havertz will cost maybe around 100m. If he cost 40 m then we won't have this conversation. 

But let just say pool sign Havertz, he will be asked to provide creative contribution plus he need to run like a workhorse and keep their defensive solidity. Does he has the stamina and workrate to do that. If he can't do that then klopp need to change his system to cater havertz.

Play less direct? Made no sense since his two star player thrive in direct game.

Ask his two fb to play more.conservative. Again make no sense since they are too good to do that.

Play Havertz in easy game, if your 100m is just part player, you are crazy. 

 

 

[Vesper 28,802]

1 minute ago, communicate said:

I disagree. don't think they are chasing Havertz unless they move firmino. I assume here that Havertz will cost maybe around 100m. If he cost 40 m then we won't have this conversation. 

But let just say pool sign Havertz, he will be asked to provide creative contribution plus he need to run like a workhorse and keep their defensive solidity. Does he has the stamina and workrate to do that. If he can't do that then klopp need to change his system to cater havertz.

Play less direct? Made no sense since his two star player thrive in direct game.

Ask his two fb to play more.conservative. Again make no sense since they are too good to do that.

Play Havertz in easy game, if your 100m is just part player, you are crazy. 

 

 

it puts WAY too much pressure on Havertz to sell Firmino and then bring him in

you are basically forcing the lad to only play CF and they still have fuckall for AMF if he has to play CF

and its 100m euros, not pounds max (so £91m), and the talk from Germany (same sourcing who were correct on Werner) says IF Bayer fails to get CL his price will drop by 20m euros or so,as their revenue will plummet  (as will ours if we miss out)

so he could be had for around £72m

Mönchengladbach is one point behind Leverkusen

they both play Hertha Berlin and Borussia play bottom of the table Paderborn, Bayer plays the erratic Mainz (fighting for survial)

Mönchengladbach drew Hertha away, Bayer lost at home the first time each played them

Mönchengladbach fucked up badly since the break

they  drew with woeful Werder Bremen, lost to middling Freiburg, and then got smashed by Leverkusen themselves

if they had beaten Bremen and just drew with Freiburg, it would basically be over already, as even a draw against Hertha (they will crush Paderborn) puts them 4th by GD even if Leverkusen wins both. Even if they only beat Paderborn 1 nil, Bayer would have to then make up 6 in GD to take fourth

Basically it comes down to Bayer v Hertha, if they win, they are likely into the CL, if they lose, then even a draw for Borussia v Hertha more than likely puts Mönchengladbach into the CL on GD

If Bayer draws v Hertha, then it is still in Mönchengladbach's hands. They just need to win both of their games (which is far from impossible)

[King Kante 1,476]

9 hours ago, Tomo said:

Thierry Henry was initially a winger but circumstances gave him a shot up front and the rest is history. Whether by accident or design is largely irrelevant, the point is he's gone up a gear since playing there.

Anyway i don't think this will be our problem, i pray he doesn't end up at Liverpool as he's the perfect Firmino successor. 

I do not think he has gone up a gear though. Last season he played more as a midfielder and scored 20 goals. This season he didn't have a great start but his form started picking up again by new year. Then since the restart he has moved to CF. 

For me, those that are watching Harvetz and saying he is a CF have a) not been watching him for long enough and over emphasising his lack of form at the start of the season. 

I'll say it now (and I am happy for anyone to pull this up in five years time or whatever) but Harvetz's long term future is in midfield. He will be a player that is the engine of a team like Lampard, Ballack, Gerrard, Pogba etc and not a centre forward. That he can play other positions is simply testament to his ability. 

[killer1257 3,282]

I do not think he has gone up a gear though. Last season he played more as a midfielder and scored 20 goals. This season he didn't have a great start but his form started picking up again by new year. Then since the restart he has moved to CF. 
For me, those that are watching Harvetz and saying he is a CF have a) not been watching him for long enough and over emphasising his lack of form at the start of the season. 
I'll say it now (and I am happy for anyone to pull this up in five years time or whatever) but Harvetz's long term future is in midfield. He will be a player that is the engine of a team like Lampard, Ballack, Gerrard, Pogba etc and not a centre forward. That he can play other positions is simply testament to his ability. 

Havertz scored 7 goals out of 17 Bundesliga goals as a right winger in in 9 matches (only 9 matches!!!!). As a midfielder, he scored 10 goals in 25 matches.
As a CF, he is even more efficient and you can see that he scored 7 goals in 5 matches. It is clear that he has all the tools to play the false 9 role and he is way more consistent as a right winger or CF

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