Coronaviral

[NikkiCFC 7,953]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

The vaccine can't come soon enough. 

Coronavirus: Putin says vaccine has been approved for use

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53735718

[Vesper 28,853]

2 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Coronavirus: Putin says vaccine has been approved for use

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53735718

they have done zero Phase III trials, so that vax is a total crapshot

[MoroccanBlue 5,306]

Russia saving the world like it's 1945. 

[DANILA 290]

My homeland! 

[Laylabelle 9,359]

8 hours ago, Iggy Doonican said:

My best mate was in an induced coma for 39 days thankfully he's recovered he's a London bus driver amongst whom there's been a number of fatalities. So nothing angers me more then these self righteous thick as shit halfwits who shout out all lives matter but refuse to wear a mask.

Fair enough people are exempt for medical reasons,disabilities etc but they don't shout about it. People who refuse cause its all a conspiracy or whatever shit they spout..its a poxy mask! Not asking to permanently attach it to the face!

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

25 minutes ago, Laylabelle said:

Fair enough people are exempt for medical reasons,disabilities etc but they don't shout about it. People who refuse cause its all a conspiracy or whatever shit they spout..its a poxy mask! Not asking to permanently attach it to the face!

I bought a Chelsea one on Ebay for a fiver and a quid postage the megastore it's a fiver just for delivery. Last Friday it was baking hot so I thought I'd just put on my mask when needed so put it in my pocket it was a disposable one. I took it out but one of the strings had snapped so the only thing I could do was pout my lips and balance it on my face six places I had to go including the bank and post office like that people were asking me how I was and all I could do was give them the thumbs up 

[Vesper 28,853]

Sweden’s success shows the true cost of our arrogant, failed establishment

Shocking incompetence has unnecessarily wiped billions of pounds from the UK economy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/12/swedens-success-shows-true-cost-arrogant-failed-establishment/

 

Lockdown supporters cannot bear the thought that Sweden has got it right

An honest appraisal of how the Scandinavian country has fared raises plenty of awkward questions for politicians in the rest of Europe

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/09/lockdown-supporters-cannot-bear-thought-sweden-has-got-right/

[Vesper 28,853]

BaWü: Every second Corona case imported from abroad

[Tomo 21,733]

On 11/08/2020 at 10:49 AM, Jason said:

The vaccine can't come soon enough.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12355759

4 community cases in New Zealand out of the blue after more than 3 months without one. 

Absolutely mental that they've locked down on 4 cases. Worse than Melbourne's beyond Draconian measures!

[Puliiszola 519]

On 8/21/2020 at 2:53 AM, Tomo said:

Absolutely mental that they've locked down on 4 cases. Worse than Melbourne's beyond Draconian measures!

Should they have wait for it to become 4k?

How soon 4 can become 400k, just take a look at US and NY.

This shows the country's govt's  priorities - which should always be a life. Shut down for a couple of weeks, test everyone they might have come in contact and then re-open. 

NZ can do it successfully too, given their lower population density. 

[Tomo 21,733]

14 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Should they have wait for it to become 4k?

How soon 4 can become 400k, just take a look at US and NY.

This shows the country's govt's  priorities - which should always be a life. Shut down for a couple of weeks, test everyone they might have come in contact and then re-open. 

NZ can do it successfully too, given their lower population density. 

But there's got to be a middle ground. If cities keep locking down over 4 cases (not deaths, not even hospitalisations, cases!) we won't have a world to come out of this to and we will encounter problems (through poverty, suicide etc) that will quickly make Covid the least of our problems. Not to mention although cases are rising here, hospital admissions and deaths are still trending downwards. There's a fine line between appropriate precautions and the utter madness we're seeing in Melbourne and NZ.

Cast your mind back to the reasons we were given for lockdown. It was to flatten the curve, save our health service, buy us time to find sustainable ways to cope, the R number etc etc. Locking down (and taking more lumps out of the economy leaving even more families susceptible to poverty) on 4 cases is hugely counterproductive especially when looking further than the end of our noses.

What worries me the most is when does this end? Because let's be real, governments aren't going to cease the new powers they have lying down.

[Puliiszola 519]

40 minutes ago, Tomo said:

But there's got to be a middle ground. If cities keep locking down over 4 cases (not deaths, not even hospitalisations, cases!) we won't have a world to come out of this to and we will encounter problems (through poverty, suicide etc) that will quickly make Covid the least of our problems. Not to mention although cases are rising here, hospital admissions and deaths are still trending downwards. There's a fine line between appropriate precautions and the utter madness we're seeing in Melbourne and NZ.

Cast your mind back to the reasons we were given for lockdown. It was to flatten the curve, save our health service, buy us time to find sustainable ways to cope, the R number etc etc. Locking down (and taking more lumps out of the economy leaving even more families susceptible to poverty) on 4 cases is hugely counterproductive especially when looking further than the end of our noses.

What worries me the most is when does this end? Because let's be real, governments aren't going to cease the new powers they have lying down.

Russia apparently has vaccines out already. US has one in the last phase, the Oxford one was in the last phase, india has one too in works. 

We need to look at the bigger picture. This was always going to be a long fight. Around 1.5-2 years till everyone is innoculated. 

In US and UK, the lockdown was given that reasoning, which was fair. If there was no lockdown, it would have run rampant. The lockdown helped put things in perspective and gave time for the world govt in increasing their medical capacity to a certain limit.

But given how contagious the virus is, I feel NZ and Melbourne have got it perfectly. If you don't impose a lockdown, very early on, it will run rampant, cost lives and then you will be forced to. They have the opportunity to be a step or 2 ahead of the virus which UK, Europe, US and most of the world did not. For us, it had already spread after which herd immunity was always going to be the final result. It's not so with NZ. Imo, a lockdown in every country with a single case is inevitable - either early on to test the very minute population that was at a risk of getting infected from the contagious people in the 2 week window, or later on, when your hospitals will be overrun and you will be forced to.

I would rather take the first approach.

"Not to mention although cases are rising here, hospital admissions and deaths are still trending downwards."

We don't know the reasoning behind this. Maybe it's just that more testing is being done, hence more number of cases are coming out, which is still fewer than the early "true infections", when literally the number of hospitalizations were taken as number of cases. Or maybe the virus strain is getting weaker. We dont know. But for a country like NZ, which had no cases, it does not make any sense to take the risk and roll the dice with the virus. The risk analysis will surely point towards lockdown being a good preemptive measure given how it's gone throughout the world. I for one would not have risked it if I was running that govt. 

I do understand the point you are making, but these simply are not normal circumstances. My fiancee lost her mother and both her grandparents. And no amount of "anything" is going to bring them back or comfort her.

I don't know if this will be the new normal, or maybe in a year or 2, we will be back to the old normal. At this point, it's moot to even try to take a guess. But what I feel is, this needs to act like a massive wake up call for the whole world. We need to be far more pre-emptive in our dealing with such threats than what we were. The only thing I do know, It's a grind and humanity has to go through it. 800k+ confirmed lives lost HAS to be used as a learning and things need to change drastically.

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, Tomo said:

But there's got to be a middle ground. If cities keep locking down over 4 cases (not deaths, not even hospitalisations, cases!) we won't have a world to come out of this to and we will encounter problems (through poverty, suicide etc) that will quickly make Covid the least of our problems. Not to mention although cases are rising here, hospital admissions and deaths are still trending downwards. There's a fine line between appropriate precautions and the utter madness we're seeing in Melbourne and NZ.

You called it utter madness and yet, New Zealanders are happy with the approach that has been taken going by the approval rating of Jacinda Arden and her government over the last few months. Was Melbourne's lockdown that bad? I remember New Zealanders complained about theirs being too strict when compared to Australia months ago and yet, New Zealand have had the last laugh because they went 3 months without any community cases while Australia didn't and are experiencing a big resurgence in cases, way more than New Zealand right now. 

Totally agree with @Puliiszola on this one. Nobody likes to be under lockdown but I'd rather the government take a safety first approach to try and stop the spread of the virus, as much as possible. Otherwise, you'd risk the cases rising up again, the cases overwhelming hospitals and people dying, just like what's happening in countries like France, Italy, Germany etc. This also isn't just about stopping people getting the virus but also stopping people from unnecessarily dying from the virus. Look at how many lives have been lost, for example, in the US because of Trump's abysmal handling of the pandemic. Even Boris Johnson's handling has been atrocious, especially early on. The death number could have been way lower.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

You called it utter madness and yet, New Zealanders are happy with the approach that has been taken going by the approval rating of Jacinda Arden and her government over the last few months. Was Melbourne's lockdown that bad? I remember New Zealanders complained about theirs being too strict when compared to Australia months ago and yet, New Zealand have had the last laugh because they went 3 months without any community cases while Australia didn't and are experiencing a big resurgence in cases, way more than New Zealand right now. 

Totally agree with @Puliiszola on this one. Nobody likes to be under lockdown but I'd rather the government take a safety first approach to try and stop the spread of the virus, as much as possible. Otherwise, you'd risk the cases rising up again, the cases overwhelming hospitals and people dying, just like what's happening in countries like France, Italy, Germany etc. This also isn't just about stopping people getting the virus but also stopping people from unnecessarily dying from the virus. Look at how many lives have been lost, for example, in the US because of Trump's abysmal handling of the pandemic. Even Boris Johnson's handling has been atrocious, especially early on. The death number could have been way lower.

Excellent post son.

[Vesper 28,853]

meanwhile, back in the insane asylum

Trump says without proof that FDA 'deep state' slowing COVID trials

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-trump-fda/trump-says-without-proof-that-fda-deep-state-slowing-covid-trials-idUSKBN25I0LF

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Saturday accused members of the “deep state” at the Food and Drug Administration, without providing evidence, of working to slow testing of COVID-19 vaccines until after the November presidential election.

In a Twitter post, Trump said the deep state “or whoever” at the FDA was making it very difficult for drug companies to enroll people in clinical trials to test vaccines and therapies for the novel coronavirus. 

The comment came after Reuters exclusively reported on Thursday that a top FDA official said he would resign if the Trump administration approved a vaccine before it was shown to be safe and effective.

“Obviously, they are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed, and saving lives!” Trump wrote, tagging FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn in the tweet.

U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said it was a “dangerous statement” and that the president was “beyond the pale” for accusing the FDA of playing politics.

The FDA could not immediately be reached for comment.

snip

 

Drug makers rebut Trump tweet that FDA ‘deep state’ is delaying Covid-19 vaccines and drugs

https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/22/drug-makers-rebut-trump-tweet-that-fda-deep-state-delaying-covid19-vaccines-drugs/

WASHINGTON — In a tweet Saturday morning, President Donald Trump accused the Food and Drug Administration of delaying the development of coronavirus vaccines and drugs.

“The deep state, or whoever, over at the FDA is making it very difficult for drug companies to get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics,” the president wrote.  “Obviously, they are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed, and saving lives!”

There is no evidence to support Trump’s accusation, and top biotechnology executives were fast to warn that politics could not be part of the process of developing vaccines and treatments against Covid-19, and to praise the speed at which the FDA has moved.

snip

 

 

 

 the head of the agency, Dr Stephen Hahn, is a Trump nominee

lololol

[Vesper 28,853]

Coronavirus: Social gatherings above six banned in England from 14 September

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54081131

Social gatherings of more than six people will be illegal in England from Monday - with some exemptions - amid a steep rise in coronavirus cases.

A new legal limit will ban larger groups meeting anywhere socially indoors or outdoors, No 10 said.

But it will not apply to schools, workplaces or Covid-secure weddings, funerals and organised team sports.

It will be enforced through a £100 fine if people fail to comply with police, doubling up to a maximum of £3,200.

Several exemptions apply to the new rules - which come into force on 14 September - with households and support bubbles bigger than six people unaffected.

A full list of exemptions will be published by the government later.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson is expected to deliver further details at a Downing Street news conference on Wednesday.

In a preview of his address, the PM said: "We need to act now to stop the virus spreading. So we are simplifying and strengthening the rules on social contact - making them easier to understand and for the police to enforce.

"It is absolutely critical that people now abide by these rules and remember the basics - washing your hands, covering your face, keeping space from others, and getting a test if you have symptoms."

No 10 said any group of seven or more people gathering anywhere "risks being dispersed by police or fined for non-compliance".

[Laylabelle 9,359]

What is silly is for all August it was go out and eat out... then oh people should go back to offices and help support the economy blah blah..now its limit contact inside...but ideally still go back to the office.

The way this whole thing has been handled is a utter shambles.

[Unionjack 7,531]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1334325/coronavirus-second-wave-uk-infection-rate-cases-latest-covid19

I dont know about you but I dont see a happy end to this until a proper vaccine is approved.

I was talking to Vesper last night and told her there was a outbreak where I was and I had the blood test. Found out that I had had the virus at one time but was now clean. And I never realized it. Felt no symptoms. And at my age etc Im supposed to be in the at risk category.