Super Frank Thread

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Also, explain the non-sale of the now-horrid Pedro and then not using the buyback on Boga, which would have net cost only 7-8m total

It's clear by now that the club are putting all the eggs into the basket of hoping we finish in the Top 4 and then (hopefully!) go big in the summer. If we do that and sign Sancho, then it wouldn't make sense to have Pulisic, CHO, Sancho and Boga. Heck, Willian might even stay!

Apart from getting a few million, I don't think there's any difference at all in letting Pedro go in January or in the summer. We can easily sign Boga in the summer, if it comes to that, given the clause in his contract. 

[Vesper 28,787]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

It's clear by now that the club are putting all the eggs into the basket of hoping we finish in the Top 4 and then (hopefully!) go big in the summer. If we do that and sign Sancho, then it wouldn't make sense to have Pulisic, CHO, Sancho and Boga. Heck, Willian might even stay!

Apart from getting a few million, I don't think there's any difference at all in letting Pedro go in January or in the summer. We can easily sign Boga in the summer, if it comes to that, given the clause in his contract. 

so you think we would roll with only 3 wingers?

or that if we do have 4, that the fourth would be a 32-34yo Willian on a £30m for 3 years contract instead of Boga?

and £5m or so that we just flushed down the shitter with letting the turgid Pedro walk on a free just adds to already monstrous losses we have already had and will have

the amounts are already jaw dropping (over 300m and counting) and quite likely can go well over £400m if we cock up with the remaining older players

On top of that, most all of our older loan army out now is going to end in masssssive fails when the final coin is counted

The board is criminally poor, and the blame ultimately is Roman's to bear

I hate seeing our once magnificent team being slowly rendered null and void as a future-forward force by a pack of mendacious and inept rotters

[Jase 43,479]

15 minutes ago, Vesper said:

so you think we would roll with only 3 wingers?

or that if we do have 4, that the fourth would be a 32-34yo Willian on a £30m for 3 years contract instead of Boga?

If we have Sancho, Pulisic, CHO and Boga, Boga would likely be at the bottom of the pecking order, no? Having competition is one thing but there's only so many times we can rotate 4 young players for 2 positions before someone becomes unhappy. Plus, if we're gonna spend over 100 million on Sancho, we'll likely make him first choice and only rest him when needed. On top of that, Boga is playing week in week out now at Sassuolo. We might be a bigger club than them but you would think Boga wants consistent game time here as opposed to playing on and off. 

I'm not gonna debate the length of contract Willian should be getting but say if he's happy to be 4th choice behind Pulisic, Sancho, CHO, then that wouldn't be the worst of situations. We also have Mount to play out wide if needed anyway. 

[Vesper 28,787]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

If we have Sancho, Pulisic, CHO and Boga, Boga would likely be at the bottom of the pecking order, no? Having competition is one thing but there's only so many times we can rotate 4 young players for 2 positions before someone becomes unhappy. Plus, if we're gonna spend over 100 million on Sancho, we'll likely make him first choice and only rest him when needed. On top of that, Boga is playing week in week out now at Sassuolo. We might be a bigger club than them but you would think Boga wants consistent game time here as opposed to playing on and off. 

I'm not gonna debate the length of contract Willian should be getting but say if he's happy to be 4th choice behind Pulisic, Sancho, CHO, then that wouldn't be the worst of situations. We also have Mount to play out wide if needed anyway. 

why would we open up the Pandora's box of wage structure by renewing him at insane wages until he is 34 (turns 35 right after the 3 years end)

it will fuck us hard with the younger players like Tammy

and you KNOW he will bitch about lack of playing time if he is 'Pedro'd'

full poison mode

so depressing to think that it may not be until the start of the 2023-24 season that we are Willian-free

it's a nightmare 

[Superblue 6,370]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

Also, explain the non-sale of the now-horrid Pedro and then not using the buyback on Boga, which would have net cost only 7-8m total

that and LB are inexcusable fuck-ups

Whilst I would agree about the left back situation because I also am unsure Chilwell is the best solution at the money being talked, but if the club have their sights on a first choice that is available in six months time then I think it's a better and more efficient policy to get into. It might not even be Chilwell as their first choice, it could be someone completely different (Chelsea seem to have a knack of doing that) who may not be available until the summer. If come the summer, we still don't get our first choice then these options which were available in January are still on the market to move on to but at least then we haven't gone for our third or fourth choice option because simply they're available soonest.

Again I agree on Boga but if Chelsea keep Willian and buy Boga then there isn't really a spot open then for a new wide player next season because CHO and Pulisic certainly aren't being sold. I think Boga is a safe and cheap option to bring back next season to replace Pedro and/or Willian if higher priority options fail (e.g. Sancho) or both Pedro and Willian leave.

I think it is simply the case of the opportunities available in the summer to do what is some pretty significant reinforcing and reshaping of the current squad far outweighs a quick fix solution in January.

[Vesper 28,787]

24 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Whilst I would agree about the left back situation because I also am unsure Chilwell is the best solution at the money being talked, but if the club have their sights on a first choice that is available in six months time then I think it's a better and more efficient policy to get into. It might not even be Chilwell as their first choice, it could be someone completely different (Chelsea seem to have a knack of doing that) who may not be available until the summer. If come the summer, we still don't get our first choice then these options which were available in January are still on the market to move on to but at least then we haven't gone for our third or fourth choice option because simply they're available soonest.

Again I agree on Boga but if Chelsea keep Willian and buy Boga then there isn't really a spot open then for a new wide player next season because CHO and Pulisic certainly aren't being sold. I think Boga is a safe and cheap option to bring back next season to replace Pedro and/or Willian if higher priority options fail (e.g. Sancho) or both Pedro and Willian leave.

I think it is simply the case of the opportunities available in the summer to do what is some pretty significant reinforcing and reshaping of the current squad far outweighs a quick fix solution in January.

I understand that reasoning about winger but that assumes 2 things

1 we are going cave in and renew Willian on 200K PW for so or either 2 or 3 years (shoot me now)

2 We couldn't have resold Boga (IF we had too) for a MASSIVE profit (we so could have)

The LB part I am unmoved by, and I have laid all all possible quality options who are remotely available (unless you want to toss an super over-priced Digne in there) and NOTHING stopped us from selling one of our dregs and bringing in a superb Telles (to name but one) at basically even cost, and who helps us at multiple levels

Alonso's value is plummeting (he is 30yo in December), and Marina upping the price on Inter to an insane 45m euros after quoting them 35m initially (which could have been hammered out to near that) was a huge bitch move that will cost us millions at the end of the day

If we hold onto him over the summer, the most we will get is probably well under £20m, say around £15m or so in 2021, which would represent a £30m loss from what RM offered (£45m) in 2018, and to which Marina did the SAME thing (raised it to £55m!)

the losses on refused and mistimed sales are KILLING us, its hundreds of million of pounds less cash towards the bottom line

and many of the players we hold onto HURT the team!!!!!

the only one who truly helped after we refused to sell in a timely fashion was Hazard (and we will take a £90-100m or so loss versus what we could have gotten the year before, although I will admit he got us into the CL and won the EL, so some of that was paid back)

Courtois not being sold in 2017 cost us MASSIVELY, as we lost around £40m outright in a lesser t-fee, gained us no CL, no title (did win the FA cup but that was NOT singularly due to Cuntois at all) and it also fucked us the next year, as we could have so so found a far cheaper and better replacement in 2017 than the nightmare £143m forced Kepa cock-up (and so far it DOES look a nightmare atm, which hopefully changes) in 2018

[communicate 2,703]

9 hours ago, Mana said:

...you're kidding, right?

Something IS wrong with Kante. He has been poor to average more constantly now. There hasn't been a WC performance from Kante for a very long while.

Nope. Willian is our best winger and that is a problem. 

Nope nothing wrong with Kante. He hasn't been brilliant that is for sure. But Kante is least of my concern about this team. I laugh at people who focus on kante against Leicester. Was he brilliant ? Nope. Perfectly acceptable? Yes. 

 

[communicate 2,703]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

If we have Sancho, Pulisic, CHO and Boga, Boga would likely be at the bottom of the pecking order, no? Having competition is one thing but there's only so many times we can rotate 4 young players for 2 positions before someone becomes unhappy. Plus, if we're gonna spend over 100 million on Sancho, we'll likely make him first choice and only rest him when needed. On top of that, Boga is playing week in week out now at Sassuolo. We might be a bigger club than them but you would think Boga wants consistent game time here as opposed to playing on and off. 

I'm not gonna debate the length of contract Willian should be getting but say if he's happy to be 4th choice behind Pulisic, Sancho, CHO, then that wouldn't be the worst of situations. We also have Mount to play out wide if needed anyway. 

If we sign Sancho, we probably will not resign Willian. Like you said, Mount can play there for emergency and we just need to sign a striker that can also play on the wing and we are set. 

[Vesper 28,787]

56 minutes ago, communicate said:

If we sign Sancho, we probably will not resign Willian. Like you said, Mount can play there for emergency and we just need to sign a striker that can also play on the wing and we are set. 

One problem is that so few truly class CF's are truly viable as wingers and also actually available or likely to come here

CF's

Kylian Mbappé    (not viable as a target)
Antoine Griezmann    (not viable as a target)
Lautaro Martínez  (not viable as a target)
Timo Werner (Obviously is the best choice but as I have stated, I do not see him coming here)
Gabriel Jesus  (not viable as a target)
Anthony Martial  (not viable as a target)
Iñaki Williams (not viable as a target)
Dominic Calvert-Lewin (my 2nd choice for a realistic CF, after Dembele, who is not a winger type, so DCL is the only real option for this hybrid who is a CF first)

 

youth CF's who can also play winger

Victor Osimhen (my first choice for youth CF's) 
Donyell Malen 
Fedor Chalov 
Myron Boadu
João Pedro

In terms of SS's

you have

João Félix    (not viable as a target)
Paulo Dybala     (not viable as a target)

then a big fall off (and both of these are not really CFs at all)

Joaquín Correa  
Ante Rebic

that is it for the SS's

I suppose you could toss Mertens in, but I do not see him leaving Napoli, I think he renews, plus he turns 34yo towards the end of next season so pass

Zaha and Richarlison are wingers who can play CF (like Martial, but they are better on the wing, versus Martial who is better as a CF) but are insanely expensive (especially Zaha, due to his age, as he turns 28 three months into the season, and £80m for only 2 sub 30yo seasons is not a good deal)

[communicate 2,703]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

One problem is that so few truly class CF's are truly viable as wingers and also actually available or likely to come here

CF's

Kylian Mbappé    (not viable as a target)
Antoine Griezmann    (not viable as a target)
Lautaro Martínez  (not viable as a target)
Timo Werner (Obviously is the best choice but as I have stated, I do not see him coming here)
Gabriel Jesus  (not viable as a target)
Anthony Martial  (not viable as a target)
Iñaki Williams (not viable as a target)
Dominic Calvert-Lewin (my 2nd choice for a realistic CF, after Dembele, who is not a winger type, so DCL is the only real option for this hybrid who is a CF first)

 

youth CF's who can also play winger

Victor Osimhen (my first choice for youth CF's) 
Donyell Malen 
Fedor Chalov 
Myron Boadu
João Pedro

In terms of SS's

you have

João Félix    (not viable as a target)
Paulo Dybala     (not viable as a target)

then a big fall off (and both of these are not really CFs at all)

Joaquín Correa  
Ante Rebic

that is it for the SS's

I suppose you could toss Mertens in, but I do not see him leaving Napoli, I think he renews, plus he turns 34yo towards the end of next season so pass

Zaha and Richarlison are wingers who can play CF (like Martial, but they are better on the wing, versus Martial who is better as a CF) but are insanely expensive (especially Zaha, due to his age, as he turns 28 three months into the season, and £80m for only 2 sub 30yo seasons is not a good deal)

I honestly don't know who, I don't watch as many football as I used to do to give a name. Dominic (I love fighter as no 9)and richarlison are interesting but both are going to be insanely expensive. 

In the end it all come down to how much is our budget and who is available. We have clear need. If we move kante, it means we will have one more need. 

[Vesper 28,787]

5 minutes ago, communicate said:

If we move kante, it means we will have one more need. 

We already have a tonne of CMF's (which is where Kante has been moved to) and more on the way from the youngsters like Billy Gilmour and Conor Gallagher, who loves to play a dynamic box to box role, but has played (this is mad, lol) DMF, CMF, LMF, RMF, AMF, and RW so far this season

The more I think about it, the better Declan Rice sounds, as besides a great young DMF, he is also a CB as well and may end up there for England. He is better on th ball and at passing than any CB we have now.

Lampard can use him in a multiplicity of ways.

 

[Jase 43,479]

7 hours ago, communicate said:

Nope. Willian is our best winger and that is a problem. 

Nope nothing wrong with Kante. He hasn't been brilliant that is for sure. But Kante is least of my concern about this team. I laugh at people who focus on kante against Leicester. Was he brilliant ? Nope. Perfectly acceptable? Yes. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

14 hours ago, Jason said:

I'm not sure what does moaning about the lack of transfer backing has gotta do with being a 'proper Chels'.  

Conte moaned because he wants to win and I'm sure it's the same with Lampard as well. The club definitely took a risk by not signing anyone in January but at the same time, there were also enough arguments as to why we did the right thing by not signing anyone. 

BEcause he is a winner, beacuse he bleeds blue and wants us to do well whether he is the manager or not. We took a huge risk not signing a decent player, as mentioned plenty were available, we could have gotten the likes of Telles etc if we really wanted to. Lets see where our ambition is located come summer.

[killer1257 3,282]

Willian is not our best winger. Our best winger is Pulisic

Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk

[ZAPHOD2319 4,477]

When you look at the total skills, possession of the ball, defense, passing, distributing the ball, pitch awareness, and scoring....Pulisic is better at being a scoring threat and speed with the ball. Willian is still better at everything else, he just is not a winger that is looking to score all the time. Pulisic has serious potential, but I would not say he has a better all around game than Willian yet. Willian is consistent and doesn't dissappear for long stretches of the game.

[Alabama 1,992]

20 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

When you look at the total skills, possession of the ball, defense, passing, distributing the ball, pitch awareness, and scoring....Pulisic is better at being a scoring threat and speed with the ball. Willian is still better at everything else, he just is not a winger that is looking to score all the time. Pulisic has serious potential, but I would not say he has a better all around game than Willian yet. Willian is consistent and doesn't dissappear for long stretches of the game.

Your evaluation of Willian is absolutely contradictory....willian and consistency should not appear in the same line...

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Lets see what the board has in store for us regarding Willy, summer will tell us so much, and the board know this damn well.

[Abreu03 292]

1 hour ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

When you look at the total skills, possession of the ball, defense, passing, distributing the ball, pitch awareness, and scoring....Pulisic is better at being a scoring threat and speed with the ball. Willian is still better at everything else, he just is not a winger that is looking to score all the time. Pulisic has serious potential, but I would not say he has a better all around game than Willian yet. Willian is consistent and doesn't dissappear for long stretches of the game.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's a lot of shit for a few lines.