petre.ispirescu 4,928 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 On 25/10/2018 at 5:15 AM, OneMoSalah said: Jesus I suppose some people will never be happy. Sarri needs time and the chance to build his team, anyone expecting a quick change and winning everything instantly are in for a big shock. We played United off the park first half.... KDB didn't come through academy, I get it he's some player now but shit happens and he couldn't displace Willian Oscar or Schurrle st the time who were competing for 2 positions and a space on the bench. CHO is 17 years old, he's got huge potential but Jody Morris was right when he said in sky he's not ready for first team football every week. Fully adapted? Don't be daft why do you think Sarri kept saying we need time and it could take a year to fully get used to his style. It's certain wums that derail threads all the time and bring fantasy stories on how half the squad should be sold in January because they are either not good enough, don't want to sign a new deal (???) or they simply do not fit their (wums) vision of how the club should be run. Modern football fan nowadays is a mixture of Sacchi, Guardiola and Ferguson when it comes to tactics and also a transfer guru and would make an excelent Director of football. Lots of people simply don't understand, or they don't want to, that Sarri is not here to become a hero among the fans by promoting the entire Academy over night. He is a 59 yo manager that has won nothing so far and he is basically on the big stage for only 4 years. This job now to manage one of world's biggest clubs is his dream, surely he is going to do everything to hold on to it and prove to himself that managing for decades in Italian lower tiers was worth it in the end. Sarri is here to prove something to himself and the world and fight for trophies by using the best players he believes that fit his style, not to give 17 year olds debuts. At least not for now. OneMoSalah and Tomo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhead23 1,147 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 17 hours ago, OneMoSalah said: A lack of rotation and lack of intergrating youngsters isn't just a Sarri problem (although he's known for not rotating his players a lot). These things were problems under Conte and Mourinho too. I agree Luiz, Willian, Pedro, Alonso aren't the best players but they are tried and trusted or have won the managers trust. For a new manager in a high pressure environment where we've sacked people for finishing second like Ancelotti, who was introducting youngsters into the squad at the time, it's easy to see why he's doing this and it's stupid to automatically assume other wise. Even Guardiola would do the same here (he's never brought through any young players from the academy since his days at Barca who've gone on to become regulars). Plan B is Giroud I think but considering Morata has been poor, it's difficult. I dont agree, It's curerntly a Sarri's problem, he is the manager who will need to take the responsibility and history suggests since the problem was not addressed before, look at Conte & Mourinho ... both sacked. (One of the factors) I understand the tried and trusted thing but when your the manager in the first season you have the privilege of taking risk so that you have the perfect team next season. What is the point in playing safe today while u need to built up a team and be in chaos from the next. Look at the situation now, no one is expecting us to win the title but the change in approach which is what everyone is enjoying. Honestly if Sarri is doing the safe thing then after the second season he will be getting the stick just like his predecessors. And on the Ancelotti sacking thing, the board cant afford to do it anymore as we already have a bad reputation and no top manager would want to come in easily. And what Pep would have done or not, I dont care as he isnt our manager. Bottom line is that Sarri has to do things differently while improving us else just like the other managers he will be on the same path to get sacked. And Plan B is Giroud ... Seriously!!! He is plan A for now. I was referring to strategy rather than personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickpassnmove 924 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 On 10/24/2018 at 4:33 AM, Mana said: Exactly. Like Arsenal 2011. Only that Arsenal "dominate" most of the game instead of just the first half. Did those "rubbish players" win us the game? No! That's what I care about. Maybe we are using "outplayed" and "dominate" too strongly. Because we didn't. Dominate/outplay them via possession - I agree, but overall we were ONLY 1-0 up. Not good enough, and that doesn't show we "outplayed" them. ...which is bad. How many times, especially last season - have we dominate first half only to wither on the second? We are in big trouble then. Do you really want another De Bruyne moment here? CHO knows he has great potential, and he would want to play first team football. And fecking Willian is STILL out of form. He's almost as useless as Morata as far I'm concerned. No new contract, ship him out! Arsenal lost twice and on level with points with us. I don't care if we are unbeaten. It's a useless stat right now, and is only significant if we won the title along with it. We have fully adapted IMO to Sarri's style. It's just that some of the players are completely out of their depth on it. We won't improve, until we get in better players. The problem begins with getting Mourinho back, not getting someone like Klopp as manager and the decisions thereafter. Apparently we have another manager who does NOT rotate, nor does he play young players often enough. For anyone who thinks that there's nothing wrongheaded about this management preference for experienced players only, you should look to Barca, RM, and other clubs with big budgets who have seen their young players in the starting eleven regularly in past seasons. Nice start by Sarri, but I think we need to decide on how important top 3 is while acknowledging we won't win the league with our lack of scoring players. Sarri should be using more of our talented young players soon. I agree with you Mana. We need better goalscorers up top and some options at fullback and centre back that we lack. Not sure about how Sarri is setting up the centre midfield. We don't look at all like a side that wins the PL; remove Hazard from lineup and what do we have? Fernando and Mana 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laylabelle 9,535 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Problem is when you dominate games and yet still drop points despite all that. That is going to be our downfall this season. We have no reliable goal scorer. Hazard but if he gets injured.. Liverpool.we led.. We drew. Man U we led. We drew. Next season is when is when things go pear shaped. Maybe they'll learn.. Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Fernando 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laylabelle 9,535 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 I really wouldn't.. 10 hours ago, Jason said: Oh dear... If only. xPetrCechx and Vesper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,178 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Outside the box thinking here... what about a 3-1-3-3 formation? GK Kepa LCB Rudiger CCB Luiz RCB Azpi DMF Destroyer Kante (who, along with the CB's instantly sets up the offence by getting the ball to Jorginho after a pressing turnover or a takeawy) DH Playmaker Jorginho CMF Box to Box/AMF hybrid Kovacic AMF Barkley or RLC LW Hazard RW Pedro or Willian CF Giroud or Morata would look like this: Hazard Giroud Pedro/Willian Barkley/RLC Kovacic Jorginho <<<<<<<< Kante >>>>>>>>> Rudiger Luiz Azpi Kepa It would seem to put Kante back in a position where he can go back to what he does best, wreaking havoc as a true DMF floater. It also takes pressure off Luiz and allows Azpi to concentrate on defence. Only player we drop is the turtle Alonso. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manpe 10,861 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Vesper said: Outside the box thinking here... what about a 3-1-3-3 formation? GK Kepa LCB Rudiger CCB Luiz RCB Azpi DMF Destroyer Kante (who, along with the CB's instantly sets up the offence by getting the ball to Jorginho after a pressing turnover or a takeawy) DH Playmaker Jorginho CMF Box to Box/AMF hybrid Kovacic AMF Barkley or RLC LW Hazard RW Pedro or Willian CF Giroud or Morata would look like this: Hazard Giroud Pedro/Willian Barkley/RLC Kovacic Jorginho <<<<<<<< Kante >>>>>>>>> Rudiger Luiz Azpi Kepa It would seem to put Kante back in a position where he can go back to what he does best, wreaking havoc as a true DMF floater. It also takes pressure off Luiz and allows Azpi to concentrate on defence. Only player we drop is the turtle Alonso. Thoughts? Without full/wing-backs we would struggle defensively a lot, for that reason alone I wouldn't try that. Vesper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,178 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 But we would have an extra CB, AND an unleashed full destroyer Kante to cover the gaps plus the 3 OTHER MF'ers to press higher, and both the wingers too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manpe 10,861 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 49 minutes ago, Vesper said: But we would have an extra CB, AND an unleashed full destroyer Kante to cover the gaps plus the 3 OTHER MF'ers to press higher, and both the wingers too Everything can be made to sound right in theory as each system has its strengths and ideal scenarios, but when I close my eyes and imagine us playing this way I see many diagonal balls destroying our flanks, and I also wouldn't want to make tracking back and defending one of Hazard's priorities again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,178 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 30 minutes ago, manpe said: Everything can be made to sound right in theory as each system has its strengths and ideal scenarios, but when I close my eyes and imagine us playing this way I see many diagonal balls destroying our flanks, and I also wouldn't want to make defending one of Hazard's priorities again. I would love to hear Sarri's thoughts on this Kante is the key, he is so unique I think he would just wreak havoc to the point where diagonals wouldn't matter, as we also have an extra CB to cover the flanks the overload pressure on the opposing team, I would think, would be overwhelming I don't think Hazard would have that much more defensive responsibility as we would have the other 2 MF'ers to give width defensive as well, with Jorginho floating in a regista role, waiting for the ball to set up play he would get the ball from either the front 5 or Kante behind/beside/in front of him (Kante can appear to be in 3 places at once after all, IN HIS OLD ROLE, lolol) OR one of the 3 CB's (who also give width to our flanking cover) I soo want to pick Sarri's brain on this!! LOLOLOLOL I am really good at spatial envisioning (not just in footie) so my wife and I have been talking about thsi for a month plus before I dropped it in here I can find NO trace on the web about a 3-1-3-3 (or another variant we came up with, 3-1-2-1-3 (which would have double registas (backed up by Kante again and giving additional MF deep covering width as they (the 2 registas) would play a partitioned (ie. half the field) Jorginho role) and an pure floating trequartista feeding the front three (thus the 2-1 in bold) Call it a 3-1-3-3 with a more pronounced forward triangle in MF (the trequartista being the tip of the MF spear) and then another (the front 3) triangle, which would be either inverted (wingers ahead of the CF) or forward thrusting (CF ahead of the wingers) depending on the game play situation leading up to the ball being in that last 3rd of the pitch in either (they are VERY similar) formation, the entire team would act with an accordion-like compression/relaxation action, and rotated to cover, so I truly think width issues would be solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideshow Luiz 2,310 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 9 hours ago, Vesper said: Outside the box thinking here... what about a 3-1-3-3 formation? GK Kepa LCB Rudiger CCB Luiz RCB Azpi DMF Destroyer Kante (who, along with the CB's instantly sets up the offence by getting the ball to Jorginho after a pressing turnover or a takeawy) DH Playmaker Jorginho CMF Box to Box/AMF hybrid Kovacic AMF Barkley or RLC LW Hazard RW Pedro or Willian CF Giroud or Morata would look like this: Hazard Giroud Pedro/Willian Barkley/RLC Kovacic Jorginho <<<<<<<< Kante >>>>>>>>> Rudiger Luiz Azpi Kepa It would seem to put Kante back in a position where he can go back to what he does best, wreaking havoc as a true DMF floater. It also takes pressure off Luiz and allows Azpi to concentrate on defence. Only player we drop is the turtle Alonso. Thoughts? Sarri has said that he doesn't like 3/5 ATB. I can't find the source, but I believe he was directly asked about it. Though, it should be said that we effectively do attack in a 343 diamond. I'm starting to come around to the idea that Kante is kind of a rotation option right now. Against the bigger teams, no doubter. But against opposition that we need to break down, we may find that Kovacic and Barkley/RLC might be a better option. Kante is the best midfield destroyer out there, but in a team that has the ball 60-70% of the time, that's less of a need. If he can start getting further up the pitch and doing his thing of winning the ball back, but in the final 3rd or opponents half, it should lead to a lot of goals. I'm hoping this happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickpassnmove 924 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 We're one or two players away (departing club) from being a completely mediocre side with a few excellent players that turn heads. kellzfresh and Vesper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,178 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 2 hours ago, quickpassnmove said: We're one or two players away (departing club) from being a completely mediocre side with a few excellent players that turn heads. Pull Hazard, Jorginho, Kovacic and Rudiger out and keep Sarri (and thus his system that nullifies Kante by putting him a bad-fit role) the team as it is now is fucked. Oh, btw, 2 of those 4 are probably gone in the summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,178 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Sideshow Luiz said: Sarri has said that he doesn't like 3/5 ATB. yes but my formation is unlike any of those typical back 3 Conte style Italian set ups. I do not like them either boring as fuck footie, even when you win, which soon doesn't happen, especially if we played Conte ball with some of the shit we have now oh, that's right, we did that last year, lololol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickpassnmove 924 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Vesper said: Pull Hazard, Jorginho, Kovacic and Rudiger out and keep Sarri (and thus his system that nullifies Kante by putting him a bad-fit role) the team as it is now is fucked. Oh, btw, 2 of those 4 are probably gone in the summer Chelsea should be very aggressive for attackers in the January window and grab defenders and maybe another attacker in the summer. Getting attackers in January should mean Eden has better reasons to stay. I think (hope?) Madrid will be in a transition phase for 2-3 seasons even though their captain and some other strong players remain there. Eden Hazard coming to Madrid will NOT re-ignite the drive for more trophies while Ramos is young enough. However, if Madrid were to buy the top striker before the summer window or early, I suppose there would be greater reason to think Madrid can re-shape themselves quickly. So, this is one big reason why Chelsea should be grabbing 1 or 2 high quality players as early as they can --before Madrid or anyone else can act. Vesper and Johnnyeye 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Vesper and Johnnyeye 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideshow Luiz 2,310 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 14 hours ago, Vesper said: yes but my formation is unlike any of those typical back 3 Conte style Italian set ups. I do not like them either boring as fuck footie, even when you win, which soon doesn't happen, especially if we played Conte ball with some of the shit we have now oh, that's right, we did that last year, lololol I understand, it's more of a 343 like LVG's Ajax side or Cruyff's Barcelona team. Pep lines up with that from time to time: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/08/29/barcelona-5-0-villarreal-tactics/ But only really against specific formations. Pep got it from Cruyff, but there's still a playmaker at the base of the diamond: https://spielverlagerung.com/2016/03/25/retro-analysis-1992-european-cup-final-barcelona-10-sampdoria/ Same with LVG: https://spielverlagerung.com/2015/12/29/1995-cl-final-afc-ajax-ac-milan-10/ Vesper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,178 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Sideshow Luiz said: I understand, it's more of a 343 like LVG's Ajax side or Cruyff's Barcelona team. Pep lines up with that from time to time: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/08/29/barcelona-5-0-villarreal-tactics/ But only really against specific formations. Pep got it from Cruyff, but there's still a playmaker at the base of the diamond: https://spielverlagerung.com/2016/03/25/retro-analysis-1992-european-cup-final-barcelona-10-sampdoria/ Same with LVG: https://spielverlagerung.com/2015/12/29/1995-cl-final-afc-ajax-ac-milan-10/ Well, I am in good company with Pep and Cruyff! LOLOL Sideshow Luiz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideshow Luiz 2,310 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 4 hours ago, Vesper said: Well, I am in good company with Pep and Cruyff! LOLOL Don't let LVG's last season with Man Utd colour your perspective of him either. Johnnyeye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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