Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Most of this squad did the same with Conte only a matter of months ago. We really should have someone in charge that won't accept mediocrity.
How many of the XI will be dropped on Saturday?
Two/three tops

You could say it was the players' fault then but it was also Conte's fault, no? I mean, we were sitting nicely in the top 4 last January but then Conte embarked on his negative-fest and dragged everyone down with him. 

[LAM09 6,742]

You could say it was the players' fault then but it was also Conte's fault, no? I mean, we were sitting nicely in the top 4 last January but then Conte embarked on his negative-fest and dragged everyone down with him. 

We're in a similar predicament now & there's one constant.

Sarri has to pick a team that actually has the eagerness to play.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, LAM09 said:

We're in a similar predicament now & there's one constant.

Sarri has to pick a team that actually has the eagerness to play.

It's not just that though, is it? How about picking a side with a setup that actually maximizes the players' abilities? We've been seeing the same shit football for 6-7 months and we've come to the point where it's more than just the players' motivation level.

[El P. 1,354]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

I really don't understand why there seem to be a cult following of this Sarriball. Why are people so obsessed with playing tiki-taka football? Is it so hard to just ask for a manager who plays good, decent football without any sort of this nonsense intricate football and is flexible as well as adaptable? Once again, Sarri offered lame rhetoric in his press conference and interview. Just kept mentioning the obvious without offering any sort of reassurances that he will get things right. Kept talking about the poor mentality, not doing things right on the pitch bla bla bla but we keep seeing the same shit week in week out without any sign that he is actually trying to change things. He's just fucking clueless and a one trick pony! And before anyone come throw the average squad factor, I agree that our squad is not the best but it's not the worst either. People keep on making it like it's Cardiff/Fulham's level but it's not. Sarri has his own football style and that's fine but why is he trying to impose it on a group of players, who clearly aren't suited to it? Why isn't he adapting to what he's got for the time being and making sure we get the results to achieve our objectives? There are more ways than one to play good attacking football and yet, Sarri only seems to know one way of doing things. Keeps on playing the same formation, same under-performing players etc. Said it before, his stubbornness will cost us this season and it is and if this shit keeps on happening, he'll be gone sooner rather than later. 

They are not average, they are fucked in the head. Mentally awful. They have won the league by Contes' brilliance and with having no true competition. Our most important players, "leaders", are soft-looking not-excellent Azpi, I-dont-give-a-fuck Hazard and softy baby-face Kante. Luiz is only a wannabe leader.

How come any manager is not good enough for our team? Mourinho was not good enough, Conte too, and now Sarri too. I am not talking about just this lot. Fabregas, Oscar, Costa, they were all not leaders, not strong reliable players.

Sarri said a lot today, but one thing is for me absolute truth: "A great team can play without a coach." We witnessed that in our last players generation. This team cannot play with or without the coach.

[LAM09 6,742]

It's not just that though, is it? How about picking a side with a setup that actually maximizes the players' abilities? We've been seeing the same shit football for 6-7 months and we've come to the point where it's more than just the players' motivation level.

Someone in their 60's ain't going to change unless forced too. The best we can hope for is a notable shake up in squad selection, as there's no chance he's changing his formation/tactics.

I honestly don't know how we can expect anything with that midfield. Our most defensive midfielder has the highest tally. [emoji19]

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, El P. said:

They are not average, they are fucked in the head. Mentally awful. They have won the league by Contes' brilliance and with having no true competition. Our most important players, "leaders", are soft-looking not-excellent Azpi, I-dont-give-a-fuck Hazard and softy baby-face Kante. Luiz is only a wannabe leader.

How come any manager is not good enough for our team? Mourinho was not good enough, Conte too, and now Sarri too. I am not talking about just this lot. Fabregas, Oscar, Costa, they were all not leaders, not strong reliable players.

Sarri said a lot today, but one thing is for me absolute truth: "A great team can play without a coach." We witnessed that in our last players generation. This team cannot play with or without the coach.

Okay, the players do not have strong mentality but shouldn't that then be the manager's job to toughen them up? We've seen from these lot that they can be tough mentally but is Sarri getting enough out of them consistently? The players should be mentally strong but it's also the manager's job to form the players to match his own mentality. 

[El P. 1,354]

Just now, Jason said:

Okay, the players do not have strong mentality but shouldn't that then be the manager's job to toughen them up? We've seen from these lot that they can be tough mentally but is Sarri getting enough out of them consistently? The players should be mentally strong but it's also the manager's job to form the players to match his own mentality. 

Nope, I have never saw that with this group. I saw a lot of talent, but never strength.

In 2015 and 2017 everything went like we wanted and needed. No true competitors, no injuries, heck, even no UCL in 2017. We have won the leagues in easiest possible ways. I am not counting that as a strength.

Also, just look at our UCL record past 2012. That shows our real mental strength.

And don't get me wrong - Sarri is not perfect too. But his only main disadvantage is being too stubborn with tactic (with playing the same and only using like-for-like changes). But it's arguable if that's really that bad. Also, he changed under-performers. Alonso, Willian, Morata, Barkley is not playing, you name it. He may not be top-class manager, but he is sure very good one. 

It really seems like we need to have a perfect manager for this squad to be good.

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Someone in their 60's ain't going to change unless forced too. The best we can hope for is a notable shake up in squad selection, as there's no chance he's changing his formation/tactics.

 

People can change if they want to or recognize that they need to. Only have to look at someone like Alex Ferguson, who kept on adapting year in year out. 

And what would be the point of changing the squad selection? Sarri has tried doing that and we still see the same debacle like tonight.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, El P. said:

Nope, I have never saw that with this group. I saw a lot of talent, but never strength.

In 2015 and 2017 everything went like we wanted and needed. No true competitors, no injuries, heck, even no UCL in 2017. We have won the leagues in easiest possible ways. I am not counting that as a strength.

You don't win leagues and be better than everyone else over 38 games if you don't have the right mentality. People keep on saying we won those leagues easily because there were no challengers etc. How about I turn that around and say we won those leagues because the others weren't good and consistent enough to keep up with us over 38 games? 

1 minute ago, El P. said:

It really seems like we need to have a perfect manager for this squad to be good

No. What we need is a manager who is adaptable and flexible (and for the love of god, please do not confuse this with asking Sarri to ditch his style!). Sarri may have the right idea but he's going about it the wrong way to execute that idea.

[El P. 1,354]

Just now, Jason said:

You don't win leagues and be better than everyone else over 38 games if you don't have the right mentality. People keep on saying we won those leagues easily because there were no challengers etc. How about I turn that around and say we won those leagues because the others weren't good and consistent enough to keep up with us over 38 games? 

No. What we need is a manager who is adaptable and flexible (and for the love of god, please do not confuse this with asking Sarri to ditch his style!). Sarri may have the right idea but he's going about it the wrong way to execute that idea.

Do you not remember our post January slumps for both of those seasons? And getting away with those only because our competitors were exhausted pre-Guardiola Man City and Spurs (no need to say more about them)? Also, let's take into account that we had JOHN TERRY at the squad for both of those. In 2015 there was even Ivanović. No, it wasn't Hazard or Azpi that mentally-lead this team to success.

Sarris' fault - 30%, players fault - 70%.

[LAM09 6,742]

People can change if they want to or recognize that they need to. Only have to look at someone like Alex Ferguson, who kept on adapting year in year out. 
And what would be the point of changing the squad selection? Sarri has tried doing that and we still see the same debacle like tonight.

You can see from the Alonso saga that he's arrogant/stuck in his ways until a point. Comparing him to arguably the best manager to grace the league is a nonstarter.

There was one point tonight that Hazard gifted the ball to Brooks in the middle of the park, and just jogged back. We honestly don't need the same shit when times are rough from our supposed "leaders".

To freshing things up and possibly have players show some commitment to the cause. When did Sarri last make sweeping changes?

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, El P. said:

Do you not remember our post January slumps for both of those seasons? And getting away with those only because our competitors were exhausted pre-Guardiola Man City and Spurs (no need to say more about them)? Also, let's take into account that we had JOHN TERRY at the squad for both of those. In 2015 there was even Ivanović. No, it wasn't Hazard or Azpi that mentally-lead this team to success.

Our post-January slumps? In 2014/15, we won 10 of the last 15 league games after January and in 2016/17, we won 12 of our last 15 games (Spurs won 13 of their last 15). How do they constitute slump?

I'll give you for the 2014/15 title but in 2016/17, Terry barely even played. Also, if you're gonna start finding excuses for our league titles, saying we only won because of this and that, then you might as well do it for the ones won in 04/05 and 05/06 as well. 

[Superblue 6,370]

Whether Sarri is here or not, the club have to be ruthless this summer. 

Players get retained for far too long at the club when they don't deserve to and the club being hell bent on getting their money back on every player that fails by loaning them out for a season or two as opposed to selling them is frustrating. Sometimes it is a good idea to build a player back up away from the club, but in other cases the club needs to learn to just take a loss sometimes and get rid.

It's always mentioned about the investment Guardiola received from City, but it's forgotten at times just how ruthless he and the club were after the first season getting rid of a lot of players who had been at the club for a long time and were no longer good enough and/or suitable for the changes Guardiola was looking to implement. Our club needs to do the same.

If this transfer ban does take effect it will be our last chance to clear the decks for a couple of seasons potentially and bring in a younger, more suitable crop of players for playing a more attractive brand of football.

[JDY 1,290]

A few reoccurring themes:

- We keep having 15-20 minute spells where we are absolutely awful & forget how to play. This is where we usually get punished. Today, Arsenal, Tottenham, Wolves. They all scored a couple of goals in quick fashion and we couldn't recover.

- Every team is parking the bus against us, even the bigger teams. It's not easy to break teams down when they do this, we should all know from experience. Leicester are one of the first teams I've seen park the bus against Liverpool this season (surprisingly) and they couldn't find the winner. Newcastle the same last night against City and they looked as impotent as us. The difference is that City usually have a number of players that can score from nothing and we don't. I don't think it's as simple as 'play it quicker! up the tempo!'. Our midfield has no goals and our only winger that's played regularly and likes to shoot is Pedro.

[El P. 1,354]

Just now, Jason said:

Our post-January slumps? In 2014/15, we won 10 of the last 15 league games after January and in 2016/17, we won 12 of our last 15 games (Spurs won 13 of their last 15). How do they constitute slump?

I'll give you for the 2014/15 title but in 2016/17, Terry barely even played. Also, if you're gonna start finding excuses for our league titles, saying we only won because of this and that, then you might as well do it for the ones won in 04/05 and 05/06 as well. 

Ok, believe what you want. Point is that almost everything got our way in those seasons. Considering that we had no European competitions and no injuries in 2017, and that slump at 2015 was 12 wins from 19 (I meant whole second half of the season, not just last 15 games), with not-so-good Man City as our competitor, I think I have a point.

And I don't think we were bad in those seasons. I think we were very good. I just think we have won those titles by our talent, and great managers' ideas. Not by being mentally strong.

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Or maybe, we just so happen to have a clueless manager who is a one trick pony! Our squad might not be WOW but it's still a decent side and should be good enough to at least be sitting comfortably in the top 4. 

Liverpool and City are light years from us in terms of personal and understanding of manager. 

Spurs are slightly better. 

Arsenal and United have a potent attack, whereas we don't. 

 

Truth be told, I think 5th is a perfect reflection of where we are at personal wise. 

[Irakozium257 350]

56 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Whether Sarri is here or not, the club have to be ruthless this summer. 

Players get retained for far too long at the club when they don't deserve to and the club being hell bent on getting their money back on every player that fails by loaning them out for a season or two as opposed to selling them is frustrating. Sometimes it is a good idea to build a player back up away from the club, but in other cases the club needs to learn to just take a loss sometimes and get rid.

It's always mentioned about the investment Guardiola received from City, but it's forgotten at times just how ruthless he and the club were after the first season getting rid of a lot of players who had been at the club for a long time and were no longer good enough and/or suitable for the changes Guardiola was looking to implement. Our club needs to do the same.

If this transfer ban does take effect it will be our last chance to clear the decks for a couple of seasons potentially and bring in a younger, more suitable crop of players for playing a more attractive brand of football.

Yes! This is definitely the conclusion to get from this game. Ruthless all around, there cannot be room for sentimentality whatsoever with regard to the squad. Azpi is one of the first who springs my mind. The guy is simply limited to be a starting RB for a team gunning for trophies. 

[Henrique 9,133]

3 hours ago, El P. said:

Mentally awful. They have won the league by Contes' brilliance and with having no true competition.

How come any manager is not good enough for our team? Mourinho was not good enough, Conte too, and now Sarri too. I am not talking about just this lot. Fabregas, Oscar, Costa, they were all not leaders, not strong reliable players.

Conte is not "brilliant". Full stop. Conte is one dimensional manager in terms of tactics, and he has poor squad management. Mourinho wasn't good enough anymore. He actually is far from special since 2010, and we are talking about 9 years ago. His work with United speaks for itself. Sarri is just an ordinary manager. He is an italian 60 years old manager with a CV that is as good as any manager in the Championship (I would say Bielsa got a better CV).