Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

8 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

Sarri made it difficult for himself ... During the early part when teams didnt understand him Sarri managed to get wins but once his strategy was found out ... it is then he didnt have a plan B. The reason Sarri is getting the stick is because he kept trying the same thing over and over again expecting positive results. There are total of only 2 games after Nov (once the opposition read him) i.e. the City and the final of the Europa where we looked like a team other wise we were poor & it boils down to the manager. 

I also believe he could have had more players but he didnt request for more ... we got Jorginho & Higaiun who are clearly his signing, 

We only came 3rd not on our merit but on others failure ... ideally we would have finished outside the top 4 and would have made it in the CL only by virtue of Europa for which we were favs. 

So even if he goes (which i dont like abt managers) I dont think we would have missed much. 

 

This we looked like shit and the amount of points we picked up in the second half of the season is shameful. The others were just as poor no denying. But if Emery in his first season and a loser mentality club, Rookie manager Ole taking over Mourinho's shit show and Spurs with all their injuries are the yardstick then good night. 

Even more shameful is however how we played against the smallest of sides with stupid errors, no clear offensive plan except giving Hazard and later RLC the ball and hope for the best. Even when we won we really rode our luck whilst most of our defeats we realyl deserved. On the surface it looks like a successful season and i am ecstatic with 3rd place and cup win but having watched 95% of our games the past 14 seasons, i rage quitted so damn often this season just because we were so gutless, frustrating, boring and one-dimensional etc  As a chelsea fan and as a football fan i will surely not miss him. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

51 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

I think the posession approach is even more ancient. the key to modern football is speed and accuracy. both in mind and in the foot. Most goals come within 10 seconds of a team losing posession. The team who is sharp, quick to react and clinical in execution is the one to prevail. Liveprool won the CL like that and probably most leagues where also decided by the teams playing like this. Klopp created a team with maybe 3,4 world class players that matches peps 15 world class players squad by perfecting the transition. going from pressing to attacking to sitting deep to counter attacking. You can pass some small teams into submission but not the ones who are coached well. I rather trust Allegri get our players working like that than Ten Haag who may mould some talents into his ideas of football but we need someone to coach experienced divas like the ones we have. 

The experienced divas that we have (I guess you mean Willian, Pedro,...) can all leave next season. They shouldnt be priority in coaching. We need a manager that will make the most of youth. We have at least 5 young players that could be world class or at least very good. And they could be here for a long time. 

As for attacking football, I agree with you; I meant fast Pool styled football, not possession based one.

Still Ten Hag can implement that; or Jardim. Allegri is pragmatic and would be parking the bus every second game because of the squad we have. And he isnt even that good that would  bring confidence we can end up in 4th place. Amyway Allegri is off the table, we will likely land Lamps.

He will absolutely flop if he isnt given trust and time.

[coolhead23 1,146]

3 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

This we looked like shit and the amount of points we picked up in the second half of the season is shameful. The others were just as poor no denying. But if Emery in his first season and a loser mentality club, Rookie manager Ole taking over Mourinho's shit show and Spurs with all their injuries are the yardstick then good night. 

Thats why Sarri got the stick and I'm sure if tomm a new manager (who ever it is) does the same will get the stick unless we have a "Ty" amongst us. 

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

The experienced divas that we have (I guess you mean Willian, Pedro,...) can all leave next season. They shouldnt be priority in coaching. We need a manager that will make the most of youth. We have at least 5 young players that could be world class or at least very good. And they could be here for a long time. 

As for attacking football, I agree with you; I meant fast Pool styled football, not possession based one.

Still Ten Hag can implement that; or Jardim. Allegri is pragmatic and would be parking the bus every second game because of the squad we have. And he isnt even that good that would  bring confidence we can end up in 4th place. Amyway Allegri is off the table, we will likely land Lamps.

He will absolutely flop if he isnt given trust and time.

5 who could be world class? I am genuinely intrigued who you mean because to say what, Reece, Ruben, Callum, Mason and Tammy could be world class is 1) getting well ahead of yourselvsle and 2) putting huge pressure on them.

Ten Hag, Lampard, Jardim, whoever comes in.... if they chose to throw their weight behind 5 or 6 young players and basically alienate senior players in their favour they will not last long. Prime example Andre Villas-Boas who statted out with the right intentions, reduce the average age of the squad, go about changing the philosophy and remaining competitive.

Regardless of transfer ban or not we need to finish top 4 minimal. Thats what any manager who works here job will rely on,  hence why when it looked like we may fall out of the top 4 Sarri was rumoured to have been up for the sack.

Does anyone expect Chelsea, who have sacked coaches who are World cup winners, CL winners, La Liga winners, PL winners, Serie A winners, Europa League winners, quadruple winners, to honestly expect any less from anyone regardless if there names Frank Lampard? Or someone who got to the semis of the CL with Ajax...

Lampard if he is appointed, despite not feeling hes ready, I hope he does well and can maintain top 4 while integrating a few younger guys in but I so have doubts. He will realisitcally only get the same/more time as everyone else before him if he does well. So lets hope he does because it means we will be doing well but in 2 or 3 years we need to be back up competing for the title regardless.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

1 minute ago, OneMoSalah said:

5 who could be world class? I am genuinely intrigued who you mean because to say what, Reece, Ruben, Callum, Mason and Tammy could be world class is 1) getting well ahead of yourselvsle and 2) putting huge pressure on them.

Ten Hag, Lampard, Jardim, whoever comes in.... if they chose to throw their weight behind 5 or 6 young players and basically alienate senior players in their favour they will not last long. Prime example Andre Villas-Boas who statted out with the right intentions, reduce the average age of the squad, go about changing the philosophy and remaining competitive.

Regardless of transfer ban or not we need to finish top 4 minimal. Thats what any manager who works here job will rely on,  hence why when it looked like we may fall out of the top 4 Sarri was rumoured to have been up for the sack.

Does anyone expect Chelsea, who have sacked coaches who are World cup winners, CL winners, La Liga winners, PL winners, Serie A winners, Europa League winners, quadruple winners, to honestly expect any less from anyone regardless if there names Frank Lampard? Or someone who got to the semis of the CL with Ajax...

Lampard if he is appointed, despite not feeling hes ready, I hope he does well and can maintain top 4 while integrating a few younger guys in but I so have doubts. He will realisitcally only get the same/more time as everyone else before him if he does well. So lets hope he does because it means we will be doing well but in 2 or 3 years we need to be back up competing for the title regardless.

Avb failed because he tried to overthrown entire old guard Terry, Lamps, Didi,...the current lot of older players cant lace their boots and cant dethrone the manager like that. Im pretty sure more or less all good players at Chelsea loved it when Alonso, Willian, Pedro, Kovacic were dumped for RLC, Emerson and Odoi. They simply are not good enough anymore and dont have any sort of leadership in them. 

And I do count Odoi, RLC, James, Pulisic and either Christensen or Zouma (depending on style) very promising. Maybe not world class, but like I said possibly very good. I gave plenty critics about Christensen or Pulisic, but they still have potential if developed properly.

But like you said it all comes down to the board. If they gonna sack just based on results regardless of younger players development, its game over. They need to put faith into Jardim, Hag or Lamps for 2 seasons at least and see how far they bring our youth. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Also if we try the pragmatic; experienced players grinding results, we are definately fucked.

West ham has Anderson and now Fornals, soon Maxi Gomez too apparently. 

Fucking west ham has better experienced attack if you go that way.

Invest in youth period. We had several seasons of shit buys, hundreds of millions spent that got us nowhere. Fricking Willian, Pedro and Giroud wont do it either. Its time for complete overhaul and if there was a time, its now. 

[coolhead23 1,146]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

There's going to be plenty of Tys running around once Lampard is appointed unfortunately. The company that sells rose-tinted glasses will be rubbing their hands right now. If you thought Sarri-In'ers were bad...

Probably ... But eventually Lampard will be given the same treatment if he doesnt use his common sense and does the simple thing right for starters

1 hour ago, Mana said:

The company that sells rose-tinted glasses will be rubbing their hands right now

U bet!!!

[Pizy 18,368]

Guys, we aren't sniffing top 4 without transfers. Regardless of which manager we appoint.

Just reconcile that with yourselves now. This will be a tough season where I think we'd do very well to finish 6th. We'll be competing with Arse, Leicester, Wolves, Everton and Wet Spam in that 6th-10th area.

This season will be all about developing young players and establishing a style and identity under Lampard. It's a write off in terms of competing for any of the major trophies. We'll be a cup team this year.

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

There's going to be plenty of Tys running around once Lampard is appointed unfortunately. The company that sells rose-tinted glasses will be rubbing their hands right now. If you thought Sarri-In'ers were bad...

Right. The Sarri-iner's will be the problem 

The Sarri-inner's were realistic in expectations with who Sarri currently had. Gash like Willian and over the hill Pedro and Giroud. No doubt they will be patient with Lampard as well.

It's the Sarri Outer's that people need to worry about with Lampard. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

1 minute ago, Mana said:

Funny enough, there are Sarri Outers that are Lampard In.

As two faced as you can get. The moment things go bad, they will be the first to call for his head. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

32 minutes ago, Mana said:

You honestly think the youth will beat West Ham? We don't even have RLC and CHO for a good period of next season.

I'm all for investing in youth, but people are forgetting that it's a huge ask for the youths and with no leadership on the pitch like a VVD, Fernandinho or Henderson, is setting up for a disaster.

PL is a huge step from wherever they came from. If we still had Hazard, I'll not be as worried as I am now but the fact is, I can't believe we are now relying on 18/19 year olds WITH a rookie, no experience coach to get us top 4.

The last thing I like to see is some of these youth players confidence shattered because they constantly let in silly goals or miss chance after chance like Morata (and cost us the game).

Thats not what I wanted to say.

We will have hard time next season against west ham and top4 anyway, playing pragmatic style or going out with youth. Playing the likes of Willian and next summer, we are back to square one. If we qualify for CL somehow the board will think current squad is good enough and we are in for another shitstorm without any ambition.

Thing is working on youth will give us better foundations for season after the next. 

The only important thing next season is to continue playing modern football and develop young players. That will be our future. Forget the top 4, forget the CL. We need to focus on style and youth. So that we can build on that next summer, bringing whoever needs to be brought to begin completing us. Thats another reason to stick with same manager who will know what we are missing and what we have instead of wasting another year. 

Maybe not everyone will be world class, but good enough potential to eventualy build a title winning team with the likes of Odoi, Ruben, Christensen/Zouma, James, Pulisic and wild cards like Mount, Tomori and Tammy. 

If we can pull it off, I couldnt care less about results next season because this is project is about our next 5 years, not next season.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

 

[Special Juan 27,422]

2 minutes ago, Mana said:

Fair enough.

What I'm still scratching my head around is why Lampard of all people. No experience on the top level, took Derby from 6th to 6th etc.

 

Club connection, club legend, a good first season with Derby, won't come with his hand open with transfer funds in mind because it's off the agenda. This a dream job for Frank, and like we say with the youth lads, how do you gain experience if your not given the opportunity? The same applies to managers, not just that but last season during tough times Frank was sublime with the media, came across calm, well spoken and has the respect of the whole of the people who surround him.

It sounds like some familiar faces are on the way back, good, this club really needs a restructure and the more football people here who have both done it, and seen it, the better. Whats important if Frank comes is allow him to adapt his style, create a group that fight and work for each other, connect with the fans and integrate the young lads who are the future of the club.

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

Has more experience than Guardiola when he started managing Barca 

[lucio 5,418]

15 minutes ago, Mana said:

No, Derby didn't have a good first season. They are still in Championship.

.

with a younger team , after players left , smaller budget than rivals, and still managed to improve the playing style a lot, and progressing to the playoff final does represent some sort of progress, could have easily won it  to, if it wasn't for a terrible goalkeeping error.

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

5 minutes ago, Mana said:

Do you really want to go through this Pep argument again and why you can't compare?

Yes. Why can't we compare? 

[Special Juan 27,422]

14 minutes ago, Mana said:

So did Di Matteo...

How does being a club legend help anything? It adds NOTHING on the pitch.

No, Derby didn't have a good first season. They are still in Championship.

...which is why this is a bad time for him to come. Unless, you want us to become Derby County?

A dream job that came too early. How do you gain experience? Let me tell you how. FINISH THE PROJECT YOU HAVE STARTED WITH DERBY. Don't just abandon it. You failed to promote Derby to the Championship, try again. That's when we will know if Lampard has learnt a lot of things, or he is just a stagnated coach with no plan B.

At least you can point to players like RLC who had YEARS of experience on the pitch. Lampard just one as coach. One.

What you fail to see, is that bringing back familiar faces is playing on the nostalgia card. We had/have plenty of legends returning to clubs as coaches such as Di Matteo, Ole, Dalglish, Gullit etc. who did the same thing. 

But Lampard hasn't done it enough. He doesn't know the pressure of the PL, he doesn't know how to handle a PL club, it's all new to him. And being a head coach is a massive thing, way more massive than a 19 year old player stepping in on the pitch.

I'm telling you, what you're thinking is a dream scenario. When you start to see losses of 5-0 or 4-0, that's when pressure builds and going to places like Anfield, Etihad, WHL and Emirates and getting spanked by these clubs...

Will Lampard be here the following season? Sarri was on his neck when we were looking to finish 5th and no trophy!

Di Matteo was a rookie and won the CL, or is that not enough

Being a legend helps massively, the respect from the fans is already there, people around the club respect him and instant support is given.

Did you see the football Derby played the teams they beat last season, including United at OT and gave us a big scare at home, at times us apart.

You want him to finish a project when his dream opportunity comes knocking, the club he scored hundreds of goals for, is idolized and the fans think he is god? Not going to happen, this is a massive chance for FL and your daft if you think he will knock it back.

If we brought in Allegri it's a risk, if we brought in Howe it's a risk, you cannot tell me that you could guarantee that both those managers would be successful 100%, everyone is a risk but your just spouting off about Frank and how bad he is going to be because he doesn't suit your appointment.

I hope to god Lampard comes here and shoves your words down your throat I really do. This club needs freshening up and there is no better candidiate with current circumstances than Frank, and forget all these high profile managers it ain't happening, we have a transfer embrago and the club needs a legend, a fresh face and new ideas.

 

[Tomo 21,733]

16 minutes ago, Mana said:

Do you really want to go through this Pep argument again and why you can't compare?

Depends on the context. 

Is Lampard or anyone going to win the treble with this squad? Quite clearly not but if you look at by a comparison to realistic targets then I would say there's a comparison.

Pep winning the treble with Barcelona is overachieving as I imagine the expectations of Barca that year was one of the big trophies, so in that sense the treble is overachieving. I imagine next season Lampard will be given the target of 4th place, so if he achieves that with a domestic cup or even better a deep CL run by a similar token he's overachieving.

So yes Lampard won't instantly turn us into treble winners because as you implied he doesn't have the players, but he will be given expectations in line with the quality of our squad and if he's a similar level to what Pep was in 2008 we would have a chance of meeting said expectations.