N'Golo Kante

[manpe 10,861]

Inclined to agree to sell him this summer while we can still get lots of cash for him. He doesn't work as well in a possession based system as in a counter-attacking one. And as he ages his stamina and speed will start going down, it already doesn't seem the same after those injuries. Just don't sell him to Mourinho  

[Clockwork 1,794]

36% win percentage with Kante, while over 70% without him.

[Vesper 29,014]

17 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

36% win percentage with Kante, while over 70% without him.

yep and he is played against SHIT teams in there too

[killer1257 3,282]

yep and he is played against SHIT teams in there too

I think that him playing against the shit Teams is the Problem. He played brilliant in almost all the big Games apart from the Arsenal one.

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[Vesper 29,014]

4 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I think that him playing against the shit Teams is the Problem. He played brilliant in almost all the big Games apart from the Arsenal one.

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agree mostly

he was meh in his first 2 big games in the league

that Manure smash

the Leicester draw (was marginally better than against Manure, the whole team was)

the rest he was really good in (League games v top teams)

but ffs, has he been shit lately against so many shit teams

I guess only play him against top teams, lolololol

[!Hazard! 3,394]

11 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I think that him playing against the shit Teams is the Problem. He played brilliant in almost all the big Games apart from the Arsenal one.

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I think we all agree on this but here also lies the problem: can we have a player worth 100m, on 300k a week wages, to only play in big games?

The way I see it is that there's clearly a few players, remnants from time under previous managers, that just don't belong in this team we're trying to build: Azpilicueta, Zouma, Alonso. And Kante.

[OneMoSalah 8,783]

Or drop Mount and play Kovacic as a 10? Even use Pedro and play Willian as a 10?

For me, Newcastle were always gonna play on the counter so why wouldnt you put Kante in whos athletisicm and recoverys could be very helpful. Kovacic has shown an increasing attacking input and his ability to manoeuvre in tight spaces could of been helpful closer in more advanced positions closer to Tammy than the deeper position he normally plays in a game like this where teams will set up to frustrate us. Same with Willian and use Pedro on the sides where he runs in behind or always finds himself in and around the box... almost as if Mount is undroppable just now despite doing little.

People keep pointing at Kantes inclusion but I would have him ahead of Mount regardless of opposition right now.

[NikkiCFC 8,049]

6 hours ago, Clockwork said:

36% win percentage with Kante, while over 70% without him.

Also 100 % wins with Alonso. Around 35% without him.

[killer1257 3,282]

Also 100 % wins with Alonso. Around 35% without him.

Alonso has probably the lowest Football IQ in our whole squad

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[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Or drop Mount and play Kovacic as a 10? Even use Pedro and play Willian as a 10?

For me, Newcastle were always gonna play on the counter so why wouldnt you put Kante in whos athletisicm and recoverys could be very helpful. Kovacic has shown an increasing attacking input and his ability to manoeuvre in tight spaces could of been helpful closer in more advanced positions closer to Tammy than the deeper position he normally plays in a game like this where teams will set up to frustrate us. Same with Willian and use Pedro on the sides where he runs in behind or always finds himself in and around the box... almost as if Mount is undroppable just now despite doing little.

People keep pointing at Kantes inclusion but I would have him ahead of Mount regardless of opposition right now.

Sure but Kante isn't in the XI only for defensive purposes, is he? He has been tasked to do both sides of the job and we all know his deficiencies going forward, which was a huge problem yesterday because Newcastle only bothered about defending. If it was any of the Big 6, Wolves, Sheffield United etc, then sure, play Kante. But it was Newcastle, who has been bloody parking the bus all season under Steve Bruce and they were barely able to string together any proper counter attacks. We have made it work before without Kante in the XI in the first half of the season and won games comfortably, notably against defensive sides. So, I'm not sure why Kante is needed all of a sudden in such games. Kovacic should have started instead of Kante OR Kante should have been subbed off for Batshuayi instead and go 2 up front instead of sticking with like-for-like changes/system late on.

[Vesper 29,014]

 

[Vesper 29,014]

self delete

[Styl1994 188]

5 minutes ago, Vesper said:

General questions

IF we lose all of the following 10 games

do you support Lampard being sacked?

do you think he will be sacked if we do lose all 10?

if not

how many of the ten would he have to lose to get sacked and have you support this?

again, this also assumes we win every other game not listed

it could be even worse

I am NOT predicting we lose all of these btw

simply asking where the breaking point would be

we also could win some of these are still drop other games against shit teams (like we have been doing)

If we come through this run still in the top four I think we will make it.

[Jase 43,479]

11 minutes ago, Vesper said:

General questions

IF we lose all of the following 10 games

do you support Lampard being sacked?

do you think he will be sacked if we do lose all 10?

if not

how many of the ten would he have to lose to get sacked and have you support this?

again, this also assumes we win every other game not listed

it could be even worse

I am NOT predicting we lose all of these btw

simply asking where the breaking point would be

we also could win some of these are still drop other games against shit teams (like we have been doing)

Erm, wrong thread? 

[Vesper 29,014]

1 minute ago, Styl1994 said:

If we come through this run still in the top four I think we will make it.

but what is the breaking point (assuming we do not make top 4?)

obviously if we lose them all (the listed league ones, or lose all but 1 or even maybe 2 (especially if the 1 or 2 wins are against Sheffield United and or Wolves), we are not making top 4, even if we win the rest of the non listed games, and winning all of those non listed is so so not guaranteed either)

we cannot drop 21 or 24 points from those listed league games and make top 4, I simply do not see how especially if we have cockups versus some other shit teams

that is my question

[Vesper 29,014]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Erm, wrong thread? 

perhaps,

let me post it in the Super Frank thread

[Vesper 29,014]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

Erm, wrong thread? 

done and self-deleted in this thread

[Jase 43,479]

Whisper it, but should Chelsea sell N’Golo Kante?

https://theathletic.com/1543014/2020/01/19/ngolo-kante-transfer-chelsea-real-madrid/

There are many big decisions Chelsea have to make in the transfer market in 2020, but few would have thought selling N’Golo Kante might be one of them.

After another ineffective outing in the disappointing 1-0 loss at Newcastle, the France international’s form is becoming something to debate.

Ask any Chelsea supporter at the start of the season to name the one player the club can’t afford to lose and Kante’s name would have been clear at the top of the list.

When The Athletic revealed back in September that Real Madrid had set their sights on signing the World Cup winner next summer, the level of outcry was noticeable.

However, it is a measure of how the campaign has gone thus far for Kante that there is a growing section of the Chelsea fanbase who might no longer be quite so opposed to the idea.

As David Chidgey from the Chelsea Fancast confirms: “I have seen and heard witterings about this among Chelsea fans. There is a strain of thought that we have been more cohesive in midfield when he’s not been playing — Mason Mount, Mateo Kovacic and Jorginho seem to play well together in particular. 

“There is the lingering question over what is his best position. But I don’t subscribe to that and he is Chelsea’s only world-class player.

“Of course he shouldn’t be sold. Why sell a world-class player? It’s nonsense. People are very quick to judge these days.”

It is understandable if people reading this dismiss the notion straight away too, but there are factors that make the possibility not as ridiculous as it may seem.

This is Kante’s fourth season at Stamford Bridge and his influence on the team has never been lower. There have been mitigating factors. A series of niggling knee, ankle and hamstring injuries has meant his outing at Newcastle was only his 13th start in 23 Premier League games. He has also featured in only half of the club’s Champions League fixtures.

But when he has been fit to take to the pitch, the amount of memorable displays people are accustomed to have been few and far between.

The two matches against Liverpool, in the UEFA Super Cup Final and the Premier League, was Kante at his very best. In contrast, the meek showing during the 3-1 loss at Everton was alarming and Newcastle wasn’t much better.

A look at some of the key statistics provided by Opta does provide some evidence of decline, which may come as a surprise.

Obviously one has to bear in mind 2019-20 is far from complete, but the below does show a pattern. Going through his seasons at Chelsea in chronological order, the numbers are as follows:

In 2016-17, he was involved in 377 duels and won 52 per cent of them; in 2017-18 there were 370 duels (again won 52 per cent); in 2018-19 the total dropped to 346 (won 42 per cent) and so far it’s 176 (won just 40 per cent).

The theme continues. Tackles go like this: 127 in 2016-17 (65 per cent success rate), 113 in 2017-18 (68 per cent success rate), 74 in 2018-19 (55 per cent success rate) and currently 34 (47 per cent success rate).

When it comes to interceptions Opta reads 82, 85, 44 and 34 respectively and recoveries number 275, 312, 238 and 117.

One of the explanations for the drop off in these statistics over the past 18 months can of course be explained by his change of position, to the right of a midfield three rather than patrolling in front of the back four, as his touch map against Newcastle below shows.

Lampard decided to maintain Maurizio Sarri’s decision to play the France international further forward and it continues to have mixed results.

Against teams who set up defensively as Newcastle did at St James’s Park, Kante is hardly the kind of player who is going to provide an incisive through ball for striker Tammy Abraham.

His pass map against Newcastle shows his successful passes, in black, and his failed ones, in yellow. It is clear that while his ball retention is good, he plays few telling forward passes in the final third.

His speed can pose a threat, as he showed in the 34th minute when Reece James played a through ball behind the home defence and Kante’s shot was saved at the near post by Martin Dubravka.

Yet in the 3-0 victory over similar obstinate opponents in Burnley the week before, Lampard opted to play the more creative Ross Barkley instead of the injured Kante and Chelsea looked far more threatening because of it.

But as Lampard admitted at the time: “The N’Golo one is tough, I’m not going to say I’m going to drop him many times because that would be mad because we know what he is. 

“Sometimes we can mix around that midfield and try to find the right combination between the three. They are difficult but nice choices.”

Barkley did eventually enter the fray in the second half against Newcastle, although it was for the equally ineffective Mount. It was noticeable how the former Everton star’s presence did improve things, albeit to no avail.

There are other factors to consider regarding Kante’s future too. He turns 29 in March and while over three years remain on his current deal, if either party wanted to go their separate ways, now is the time.

With Chelsea planning to make bids for some of Europe’s most wanted players — Borussia Dortmund forward Jadon Sancho and Leipzig striker Timo Werner — plus the expensive Leicester City left back Ben Chilwell in the summer, they could certainly do with some more funds.

The club’s transfer kitty will be boosted by around £147 million from the sales of Hazard and Alvaro Morata, but that will only get the club so far in the bidding process. Sancho alone could be worth that sum.

And who knows what Kante’s ambitions are? If Chelsea are honest with themselves, it could take a while before they’re challenging for the Premier League and Champions League again, whereas Real Madrid tend to be in contention on an annual basis.

The former Chelsea winger Pat Nevin, who was in the stands watching Kante in action on Saturday evening in his role as a TV pundit, believes it is a subject worthy of discussion.

He tells The Athletic: “I can understand why people are asking the question. Chelsea are pretty well-served in the midfield area.

“Kante is picking up more injuries now. The money you can get now from selling him to one of the bigger clubs would be quite astronomical.

“I would argue he needs to stay from more of a football point of view — he is more than just a holding player now. He breaks play up higher up the field and he is brilliant at it.

“But is that offset though from the financial side of things and how you can spend the money? If he stays for a few more years, his value is negligible in comparison. It must be a temptation for the club to sell because of the quality of players coming through.

“From his point of view, if you’re going to make a move to a big club you are reaching that point of now or never.

“Chelsea lost Hazard last summer and of course they’ve missed him. But every team in the world moves on — Real Madrid had to move on after Cristiano Ronaldo left. If Kante leaves it will cause headlines, you would miss certain things. Would Chelsea survive? Of course.

“Do I think Chelsea would prosper more with him still around for a few more years? Yes. He would help the young players.”

Intriguingly, Chelsea have been looking at a younger central midfielder with the ability to play in a similar role to Kante in Boubakary Soumare.

The Lille midfielder is nine years younger than the Chelsea man and clearly has a lot to learn. And yet he has been scouted by a number of top clubs including Real Madrid and Manchester United so Lampard might have to act fast.

It is understood both the player and his club want to see out the rest of the season before moving elsewhere and it would take a seismic offer to change minds.

Sourmare’s fee wouldn’t be as much as Kante would command though. It would still be quite a gamble on Chelsea’s part.

“It’s no coincidence Chelsea, Leicester and France have all done well over the last four years because they’ve had a player like him,” says Chidgey.

“I think the real issue is one of absolute exhaustion. The guy hasn’t had a break for four years and where he plays requires a lot of energy. He is a selfless individual and once you get one injury, players tend to pick up others.

“But nobody is bigger than the club. Chelsea is a business and if they think they can get top dollar for him now, there is an argument to cash in. I can see the sense in it.

“We relied on Hazard more than Kante and he left. Others have stepped up after Hazard went. You move on, it’s the cycle. We will survive if Kante goes, even though I don’t want that to happen.”

The fact it’s even being talked about at Chelsea is noteworthy in itself.