Cesc Fàbregas

[Viper22 2,418]

I like him better playing deep

Surely we all knew that before though? .

Most of his good work last night came from set pieces. Thought he was a bit swamped by their defence and midfield. I agree he's much more influential when playing from deep though.

[Special Juan 27,112]

OMG! :lol: :lol:

That is brilliant.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Surely we all knew that before though? .

Most of his good work last night came from set pieces. Thought he was a bit swamped by their defence and midfield. I agree he's much more influential when playing from deep though.

The suggestion that he should be played at number 10 has been there since we signed him. Even yesterday there were a couple of "Finally Cesc at 10" posts when the team news came out. I never got that. He's much more useful when he had a bit more space and time to look up and pick a pass.

[Viper22 2,418]

The suggestion that he should be played at number 10 has been there since we signed him. Even yesterday there were a couple of "Finally Cesc at 10" posts when the team news came out. I never got that. He's much more useful when he had a bit more space and time to look up and pick a pass.

The calls for him to play at 10 will hopefully go away now then. Oscar does a fantastic job there which I think is underrated, and if he's out I'd rather play Willian at 10, Schurrle at RW and leave Fab where he's best, because he CAN play in the pivot.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Holland: "There's not a lot that he can't do, so I guess we can now add 'taking penalties' to his list of repertoires"

[stroey 2,525]

The calls for him to play at 10 will hopefully go away now then. Oscar does a fantastic job there which I think is underrated, and if he's out I'd rather play Willian at 10, Schurrle at RW and leave Fab where he's best, because he CAN play in the pivot.

The suggestion that he should be played at number 10 has been there since we signed him. Even yesterday there were a couple of "Finally Cesc at 10" posts when the team news came out. I never got that. He's much more useful when he had a bit more space and time to look up and pick a pass.

For big games or tough away games I want him as the #10 because we need more legs and defensive stability in the midfield. Mikel or Ramires can provide that.

Cesc is our most creative player so he should always play. In most of the EPL games Cesc can play in the pivot because we dominate games, so it's fine to have another attacking player in the #10 spot.

Imagine when we play the likes of Bayern, Real, Atletico, Barca, PSG in CL or other big teams away in the EPL.

Would you rather have Ramires/Mikel next to Matic with Cesc at #10? Or would you rather have Matic Cesc and Oscar?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

For big games or tough away games I want him as the #10 because we need more legs and defensive stability in the midfield. Mikel or Ramires can provide that.

Cesc is our most creative player so he should always play. In most of the EPL games Cesc can play in the pivot because we dominate games, so it's fine to have another attacking player in the #10 spot.

Imagine when we play the likes of Bayern, Real, Atletico, Barca, PSG in CL or other big teams away in the EPL.

Would you rather have Ramires/Mikel next to Matic with Cesc at #10? Or would you rather have Matic Cesc and Oscar?

I would much rather have Oscar or Willian in the number 10 position regardless of who is playing in the pivot. Even if Jose judges in a certain game that Rami or Mikel should start over Cesc, that doesn't mean we have to play him out of position and somehow try to jam him into the team.

[dee25 1,044]

I would much rather have Oscar or Willian in the number 10 position regardless of who is playing in the pivot. Even if Jose judges in a certain game that Rami or Mikel should start over Cesc, that doesn't mean we have to play him out of position and somehow try to jam him into the team.

Cesc had the best season of his career playing as a no. 10 for Arsenal. He might not be perfectly suitable for that role in the system we play, but playing Cesc in the number 10 is hardly "playing him out of position". That's an absurdly hyperbolic statement to make.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Cesc had the best season of his career playing as a no. 10 for Arsenal. He might not be perfectly suitable for that role in the system we play, but playing Cesc in the number 10 is hardly "playing him out of position". That's an absurdly hyperbolic statement to make.

But you said it right there, in a completely different system which can be even more different than playing a different position, just take Mata for example. Call it playing him out of his usual role if you don't like "out of position".

Unless we are going to completely change both our pressing and attacking system, I wouldn't like to see Cesc in an advanced role except to give rest to other players like yesterday.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,776]

Can't believe what I'm reading about Cesc's performance yesterday. For me he absolutely confirmed that he is an option to play at 10. I was one of the 6 people (at time of posting) who selected Cesc as man of the match. His pass completion percentage was down a bit but there were a number of key passes that either put people in, or set up good situations for us. Liked what I saw from Cesc last night.

[Barbara 15,149]

But you said it right there, in a completely different system which can be even more different than playing a different position, just take Mata for example. Call it playing him out of his usual role if you don't like "out of position".

Unless we are going to completely change both our pressing and attacking system, I wouldn't like to see Cesc in an advanced role except to give rest to other players like yesterday.

I think you only made your initial statement worse. It doesn't make any sense to say playing Cesc #10 is playing him out of position or out of his usual role, but then you compare this to Mata and it gets 10000x worse.

Cesc can do everything Oscar or Willian do at #10, but no one can make what he does at #8. That's why we play him there, because we don't have a player to replace him in the pivot and play the same role. But he can play as #10 and still not affect our pressing and attacking systems. We would have to change nothing... He can tackle, he can press, he isn't much slower than Oscar (if he's any slower). Willian doesn't play often as #10, so that doesn't even feel like a fitting comparison.

I don't think Oscar does anything considerably better than Cesc. Cesc presses really well, he can tackle, he has better vision and better passing. Maybe the only edge Oscar has is finishing - although Cesc has it on him too, it's just he hasn't been trying much imo.

So no, playing him as #10 isn't playing him out of position, or in an unusual role and doesn't compromise our system. Playing him as #10 just means we create a problem in our pivot as nobody can properly replace him there.

[dee25 1,044]

But you said it right there, in a completely different system which can be even more different than playing a different position, just take Mata for example. Call it playing him out of his usual role if you don't like "out of position".

Unless we are going to completely change both our pressing and attacking system, I wouldn't like to see Cesc in an advanced role except to give rest to other players like yesterday.

Barbara basically summed it up. It's not playing him out of his usual position. Period. No one will say that Cesc was playing out of position yesterday. That's an incorrect statement to make.

Now, if you're argument is that Cesc in this system offers more or is more of an asset in a deeper position than in an advanced position....that I get. But to argue that Cesc in the number 10 is a square peg in a round hole (which is basically what you're implying), that's wrong. It's not like there was a drastic drop in Cesc's performance yesterday when he played behind the striker compared to against Newcastle (as an example) when he played in central midfield.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I think you only made your initial statement worse. It doesn't make any sense to say playing Cesc #10 is playing him out of position or out of his usual role, but then you compare this to Mata and it gets 10000x worse.

Cesc can do everything Oscar or Willian do at #10, but no one can make what he does at #8. That's why we play him there, because we don't have a player to replace him in the pivot and play the same role. But he can play as #10 and still not affect our pressing and attacking systems. We would have to change nothing... He can tackle, he can press, he isn't much slower than Oscar (if he's any slower). Willian doesn't play often as #10, so that doesn't even feel like a fitting comparison.

I don't think Oscar does anything considerably better than Cesc. Cesc presses really well, he can tackle, he has better vision and better passing. Maybe the only edge Oscar has is finishing - although Cesc has it on him too, it's just he hasn't been trying much imo.

So no, playing him as #10 isn't playing him out of position, or in an unusual role and doesn't compromise our system. Playing him as #10 just means we create a problem in our pivot as nobody can properly replace him there.

How does the Mata make it worse? I didn't compare any of the abilities of Cesc to that of Mata I was just using Mata to point out how playing 10 in a certain system does not mean that you can play 10 at any system.

The main difference for me is physically. Cesc does not have the strength of Oscar and Willian nor their speed. Yes, Cesc presses well, but he's literally the last one of our players you'd want to see sprint and that would be an issue if he plays the 10 because we press with a 4-4-2. Plus, playing in Oscar's position means that he'd often need to switch positions with the wingers and, unless he is taking a FK , I really don't want to see Cesc on the wing. In the final third, he just doesn't the movement and runs off the ball to create space like Oscar and Willian do and would naturally have less time and space on the ball.

I really thought that yesterday proved exactly this. His performance was several notches lower than usual. He didn't have nearly as much impact on the game as he usually does and was bullied off the ball several times near the box. So, yes, if, for some reason we need to not play Cesc in the pivot in an important match, then I would not like to see him in a more advanced role as long as Oscar or Willian are available.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Barbara basically summed it up. It's not playing him out of his usual position. Period. No one will say that Cesc was playing out of position yesterday. That's an incorrect statement to make.

Now, if you're argument is that Cesc in this system offers more or is more of an asset in a deeper position than in an advanced position....that I get. But to argue that Cesc in the number 10 is a square peg in a round hole (which is basically what you're implying), that's wrong. It's not like there was a drastic drop in Cesc's performance yesterday when he played behind the striker compared to against Newcastle (as an example) when he played in central midfield.

Call it whatever you want, I don't think he plays nearly as well in the number ten role in our system as Oscar or Willian.

I thought it was a very big drop in performance. He went from being the engine of the whole team and the architect who designs the attacks and controls the tempo, to fairly limited impact on our attack, mostly through set-pieces. Salah, Schurrle and even Matic had a much bigger impact on our attack and general play than him.

[Barbara 15,149]

How does the Mata make it worse? I didn't compare any of the abilities of Cesc to that of Mata I was just using Mata to point out how playing 10 in a certain system does not mean that you can play 10 at any system.

The main difference for me is physically. Cesc does not have the strength of Oscar and Willian nor their speed. Yes, Cesc presses well, but he's literally the last one of our players you'd want to see sprint and that would be an issue if he plays the 10 because we press with a 4-4-2. Plus, playing in Oscar's position means that he'd often need to switch positions with the wingers and, unless he is taking a FK , I really don't want to see Cesc on the wing. In the final third, he just doesn't the movement and runs off the ball to create space like Oscar and Willian do and would naturally have less time and space on the ball.

I really thought that yesterday proved exactly this. His performance was several notches lower than usual. He didn't have nearly as much impact on the game as he usually does and was bullied off the ball several times near the box. So, yes, if, for some reason we need to not play Cesc in the pivot in an important match, then I would not like to see him in a more advanced role as long as Oscar or Willian are available.

you compared the situations. Mata couldn't play as a #10 because he doesn't have what it takes to do it in this system. Cesc has everything that it takes to be a #10 in any team in the world, including Chelsea. I'm not saying you compared him to Mata, I said understood you were comparing his situation to Mata's. Mata had a lot of weaknesses that compromised his performances in our system as a #10. Cesc has none.

Go some pages back in this thread. He's been performing worse now than he was two months ago, his latest matches he struggled a bit physically - simply because he's tired. Of course, some people in the thread made it look like he was even the 'weakest link in the team' (stealing Oscar's captive status btw), which is an exaggeration, but he's been up and down lately compared to earlier this season because he's clearly tired. But now he'll rest this weekend and hopefully also in the League Cup.

I'm not discussing he's at his best in the pivot. That's not up to discussion imo, but there's no way playing Cesc as a #10 is playing him out of position or affecting our whole system as you clearly stated. Both things are a stretch imo but we can agree to disagree.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

you compared the situations. Mata couldn't play as a #10 because he doesn't have what it takes to do it in this system. Cesc has everything that it takes to be a #10 in any team in the world, including Chelsea. I'm not saying you compared him to Mata, I said understood you were comparing his situation to Mata's. Mata had a lot of weaknesses that compromised his performances in our system as a #10. Cesc has none.

Go some pages back in this thread. He's been performing worse now than he was two months ago, his latest matches he struggled a bit physically - simply because he's tired. Of course, some people in the thread made it look like he was even the 'weakest link in the team' (stealing Oscar's captive status btw), which is an exaggeration, but he's been up and down lately compared to earlier this season because he's clearly tired. But now he'll rest this weekend and hopefully also in the League Cup.

I'm not discussing he's at his best in the pivot. That's not up to discussion imo, but there's no way playing Cesc as a #10 is playing him out of position or affecting our whole system as you clearly stated. Both things are a stretch imo but we can agree to disagree.

My intention was not to compare the two situations. I meant to give evidence that playing in a position in a certain system doesn't mean you can play it in any system. Of course the two situations are not comparable.

You might be right that fatigue may have played a part in his performance yesterday, but I do think that, like you said, the inconsistency in his performances have been exaggerated. We can agree to disagree on how effective he can be in the advanced role until we have more games to judge on.

Actually, if you go to the first point, it was that he is better playing deep than more advanced which some people seem to disagree with. And my second point, I guess, has been that, if some reason we don't want to play Cesc in the pivot, should he played more forward? And I'm arguing that, no, we should still play Oscar or Willian there because I think they offer more in that position.

[dee25 1,044]

Call it whatever you want, I don't think he plays nearly as well in the number ten role in our system as Oscar or Willian.

I thought it was a very big drop in performance. He went from being the engine of the whole team and the architect who designs the attacks and controls the tempo, to fairly limited impact on our attack, mostly through set-pieces. Salah, Schurrle and even Matic had a much bigger impact on our attack and general play than him.

Well firstly, in this system the no.10 in general has a limited impact in attack. Secondly. If I'm not mistaken, Cesc has played in the no. 10 role for us twice - yesterday against Sporting and in the 2nd half against City. That's a very small sample of performances to use as evidence that he offers less than Oscar and Willian who have played far more games in that position than Cesc.

This whole argument is baseless in my opinion.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Well firstly, in this system the no.10 in general has a limited impact in attack. Secondly. If I'm not mistaken, Cesc has played in the no. 10 role for us twice - yesterday against Sporting and in the 2nd half against City. That's a very small sample of performances to use as evidence that Cesc offers less than Oscar and Willian who have played far more games in that position than Cesc.

This whole argument is baseless in my opinion.

Yes, I agree, there is little evidence either way, so, like I said to Barbara above, we can agree to disagree until there is more analyze. It is just a personal opinion on how I expect him to perform based on his abilities and attributes.