Post-season review - Chelsea 2013/14

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Aw diddums....did you get hurt before and now you find it hard to love again??

What we have for the first time in years (yes, those other 'transitions' didn't work and we ended up with a squad composed of players bought for different tactics) is a solid foundation based on a clear idea of how we want to play football, not just in the first team but at age-group level as well. We have something approaching a spine in the team, something we haven't had for about 4 years. We have clear areas we need to improve on but that wasn't going to happen overnight.

You seem to want instant success when that simply wasn't going to be a given. You talk about Jose's past success yet seem completely ignorant of it. When he arrived here we were already a very good team and he took us to that next level - we weren't a very good team when he arrived this time. He's had to build a team who can defend better and he's improved the young talent we have here and yet people like you (and there are but a handful of you, although the sanctimonious prickishness makes you seem greater in number) still have the temerity to bellyache because he didn't win immediately.

You castigate him for being short-termist yet you seem to care only about the short-term. You're hypocrites and you're representative of everything that was going wrong at this club just a few years ago. EVERYTHING about this club is focused on the long-term now from the way we handle our finances to the acquisition and development of young talent. If you can't trust the club to have hired a coach who actually believes what he says about wanting to be here for the long-term then fine. Enjoy.

Just reading that first line shows you have the mental capabilities of a 9 year old who thinks he can talk like an adult.

So last year a team consisting of the likes of Oscar, Mata, Hazard, Ramires, Azpi, Cahill, Terry, Ivanovic ect., most you have this season been singing their praises as being cornerstones of the team, were not good a team but magically are now, even though last year (however inconsistent they were) still manage to win the Europa League, the fact that he still has that squad as well as spending about £60 million pounds on new players does not indicate that this team is still in a huge transitional phase, it was a capable team of challenging for the title with the best depth in the league, no excuses such as having no efficient striker (should have not put all the eggs in one basket with Rooney).

And sorry for having a sceptical mind and not just falling for the rhetoric without thinking for myself like you do. I have looked at Jose's past method when managing a club (short term based on coming to a club with good players and spending massive amounts of money to improve it) and so far he is doing exactly the same as he did then with no indication of changing the method of operations of the club when it comes to recruiting players (the use of young players from the youth teams instead of shelling millions on ready made players). It strikes me that despite the rhetoric he keeps spewing out that you just listen to without thinking critically for yourself, there is nothing that indicates to me that he will be here for the long term. That's why I since last summer I have had expectations of us winning the title this season, because I don't think he will be here for the long term and remain unconvinced that he will be capable of doing it I am on the belief that he needs to win now before he goes again and we are finding a new manager. We will have to agree to disagree on this but so far I remain unconvinced that he is actually a long term manager, and will be hoping that he can redeem my expectations by winning the champions league this season.

[The only place to be 11,313]

and will be hoping that he can redeem my expectations by winning the champions league this season.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you everything wrong about entitled, spoilt, gloryhunting scrotes summed up in one succinct sentence.

Your's faithfully,

The 9 year old.

[haranr 485]

SUCCESS. Finally competing for the title.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you everything wrong about entitled, spoilt, gloryhunting scrotes summed up in one succinct sentence.

Your's faithfully,

The 9 year old.

Well why not? The only team that would be ranked as incredibly (almost impossible) difficult to beat is Munich (and even in this Champions league campaign), according to Jose the current Barcelona team is the worst in years and Real Madrid have shown they are inconstant. Considering that we have botch up in a league campaign that we should have won (I don't care how many say we were not in the running, we had the best squad in terms of depth and City and Liverpool are not indestructible like some try to portray) this would more then make up with it, and remember its a knockout competition so the complaints of consistency don't apply here.

And if next season we don't win anything, will people still be using the transitional and long term excuses, considering that by the end of the second season under Jose's tenure is when things start to fall apart with the infighting and tensions . And typical for you to try and completely ignore my reasoning for arguing for quick success. I still believe that Jose is a short term manager and that he can't do long term, and so far is still operating the way he always does and won't be a long term manager for us, hence the reasoning for trophies now. If it were someone like Klopp who actually was showing signs of long term planning then I would not be making these expectations. Although you will probably ignore that to try and deflect that for something else so that you can continue your hobby of picking fights and causing arguments.

[Special Juan 28,142]

This thread. I won't be back on until later after the football, but I will crack open a bottle and look forward to reading more.

[Barbara 15,149]

And how long will that last, considering that to me there is nothing there that indicates that he has changed his method of mangement and is still acting on short term ideas.

That's one of the funniest things I've read here lately

Unless you're serious...

If you think Jose is approaching things like he did in his first spell here I'd have to ask if you were a fan back then (maybe you were too young to remember) bc that makes no sense otherwise. His philosophy and approach were completely different. Sharper, more aggressive, less tests were done, he went for a completely different profile of players. Schurrle, Salah, even Marco didn't come to be bench warmers for 3 seasons. They've been used and will be even more next season. So how is his method the same? Enlighten me please

[duo11bluecl 207]

Oh dear now finishing potentially 3rd and get to QF of CL is success...Arsenal style ambition now?

We are Chelsea for God sake, we GO FOR EVERYTHING and only going out like against City in the FA Cup is acceptable. Nor does losing 4 games against bottom half table teams are acceptable. On CL it is MANDATORY to get to at least QF every season unless we meet Bayern/Barca/Real in the last 16. Should be making at least QF/semi of Capital 1 and FA Cup EVERY SINGLE SEASON at least and only could lose to the likes of Liverpool/Man City.

[Muzchap 8,966]

The thread = failure

Chelsea = success

<ends>

[Barbara 15,149]

Oh dear now finishing potentially 3rd and get to QF of CL is success...Arsenal style ambition now?

We are Chelsea for God sake, we GO FOR EVERYTHING and only going out like against City in the FA Cup is acceptable. Nor does losing 4 games against bottom half table teams are acceptable. On CL it is MANDATORY to get to at least QF every season unless we meet Bayern/Barca/Real in the last 16. Should be making at least QF/semi of Capital 1 and FA Cup EVERY SINGLE SEASON at least and only could lose to the likes of Liverpool/Man City.

Sorry for sounding like an entitled bitch - maybe that's what I am but WE are Chelsea fans and we have titles expectations like any other fan (except Arsenal) but we can recognize progress and label it success even without titles bc we are here to support the manager and the team no matter what without demanding titles as if we were the only team in the world to have money and good players.

This thread worn me out already. It's a lot of fan character showing, the kind I have no patience for. Come back when we win something as that is all that matters

[Alan Partridge 1,124]

In terms of silverware, a failure

In terms of the future of the team, a success. First proper transitional season under a long term manager and we have challenged for the title and still in the CL, which is more than Arsenal can say.

We are a couple of players away from being a team capable of winning anything

[Weckerz 3,781]

wtf is this..

1. still competing in the CL

2. We were top of the league just a few days ago and still have a decent shot at the title

Taking into account the squad without a proper striker or playmaker I'm not sure how this season can be anything but a success so far?

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

That's one of the funniest things I've read here lately

Unless you're serious...

If you think Jose is approaching things like he did in his first spell here I'd have to ask if you were a fan back then (maybe you were too young to remember) bc that makes no sense otherwise. His philosophy and approach were completely different. Sharper, more aggressive, less tests were done, he went for a completely different profile of players. Schurrle, Salah, even Marco didn't come to be bench warmers for 3 seasons. They've been used and will be even more next season. So how is his method the same? Enlighten me please

Last time he also had a relatively young squad. If I remember correct Lampard an Terry were in their early 20s, as well as Gudjonhson and Duff. Robben and Cech were one of the most exciting young prospects when we got him; and I should also mention that many of them never won a major trophy before so you could not say they were experienced winners . And lets not forget that the two seasons after that we spent huge amounts of money on young players that were made by other clubs or introduced by them. £21 million on Shaun Wright Phillips, £25 million on a 23 year old Essien, £18 million on a teenage Mikel. How is this any different? We are still paying huge amounts of money for players that were molded by other clubs so they can make an immediate impact. A real change of emphasis would be actually using scouting and networks to bring in young players (mainly 16-200 that we bring up ourselves through the youth and reserve squad that would blended into the team. So far, despite claiming throughout the summer that youth products like Kalas, Chalobah ect would be used in this season, we have not seen any of them given any starts at all. The fact that we are paying £12 million pounds on Zouma who already has over 40 appearances at 18 with his parent club (and was heavily hyped over Europe) instead of giving the likes of Kalas a chance says it all. If he were to actually use youth products that did not cost over £10 million pounds and got rid of some of the older players like Lampard, Cole and Ivanovic to make way for them, then I would see this as long term planning with a completely different direction of managing the club. So far its the same old, expensive transfers for players other clubs have molded so they can make an immediate (or in about 6 months) impact.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Added a poll as suggested by some.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Last time he also had a relatively young squad. If I remember correct Lampard an Terry were in their early 20s, as well as Gudjonhson and Duff. Robben and Cech were one of the most exciting young prospects when we got him; and I should also mention that many of them never won a major trophy before so you could not say they were experienced winners . And lets not forget that the two seasons after that we spent huge amounts of money on young players that were made by other clubs or introduced by them. £21 million on Shaun Wright Phillips, £25 million on a 23 year old Essien, £18 million on a teenage Mikel. How is this any different? We are still paying huge amounts of money for players that were molded by other clubs so they can make an immediate impact. A real change of emphasis would be actually using scouting and networks to bring in young players (mainly 16-200 that we bring up ourselves through the youth and reserve squad that would blended into the team. So far, despite claiming throughout the summer that youth products like Kalas, Chalobah ect would be used in this season, we have not seen any of them given any starts at all. The fact that we are paying £12 million pounds on Zouma who already has over 40 appearances at 18 with his parent club (and was heavily hyped over Europe) instead of giving the likes of Kalas a chance says it all. If he were to actually use youth products that did not cost over £10 million pounds and got rid of some of the older players like Lampard, Cole and Ivanovic to make way for them, then I would see this as long term planning with a completely different direction of managing the club. So far its the same old, expensive transfers for players other clubs have molded so they can make an immediate (or in about 6 months) impact.

Chalobah you may have a point. Kalas got injured near the start of the season and where he would've got games I don't know.

Simple fact is that you're judging him way too soon. You can't just throw young players in when there's no spine to the team. We can actually play Chalobah next season ALONGSIDE Matic, but are you seriously saying that either Mikel or Ramires had enough leadership skills to actually take him under their wing? As for the older guard, he's sold Essien (a guy you were unequivocally disrespectful too if I remember correctly) and dropped Cole. Who would you like him to play now? Aina?

I've criticised him (because I am capable and willing to do that when I feel it is appropriate and not in a scattergun manner like you do you mewling quim) for not going with Lukaku this season but beyond that it's hard to fault the guy when it comes to integrating youth. You need that firm foundation to do that though, unless you're as hopeless as we were last season in which case fuck it.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Chalobah you may have a point. Kalas got injured near the start of the season and where he would've got games I don't know.

Simple fact is that you're judging him way too soon. You can't just throw young players in when there's no spine to the team. We can actually play Chalobah next season ALONGSIDE Matic, but are you seriously saying that either Mikel or Ramires had enough leadership skills to actually take him under their wing? As for the older guard, he's sold Essien (a guy you were unequivocally disrespectful too if I remember correctly) and dropped Cole. Who would you like him to play now? Aina?

I've criticised him (because I am capable and willing to do that when I feel it is appropriate and not in a scattergun manner like you do you mewling quim) for not going with Lukaku this season but beyond that it's hard to fault the guy when it comes to integrating youth. You need that firm foundation to do that though, unless you're as hopeless as we were last season in which case fuck it.

What, you need a firm foundation and someone to guide them to just introduce at least one youth player into the team? I don't buy that excuse (which is you trying to create a chicken and egg paradox), is it really just hard to make way for one youth player, you can't just trying to make excuses to try and not play them (whether its because they don't have enough experience or because their is no one to take them under the wing (Seriously? they are football players not Jedi knights) despite the fact that the likes of Terry and Ivanovic (who apparently are leaders) are regulars in the team. That's the reason why they have been rotting away on loan. Since Jose is apparently here for the long term and does not have to win anything this season (and possibly the next 2 seasons after that), there is no reason why he can't introduce them into the squad now and make them part of the "foundation" you claim is needed. You have to take chances with these players instead of spending £12 million on someone like Zouma who already has first team experience and basically means that we won't bother with the likes of Chalobah and Kalas. Just look at Everton and Martinez in his first season who have introduced Barkley and Stones into the squad, who don't have world class players like Hazard now has a really good chance of landing a top four spot, if he can do that in his first season then Jose has no excuse.

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

If we win the title and maybe a cup next season then this one will be a success. If we don't it will be a big failure.

[The only place to be 11,313]

What, you need a firm foundation and someone to guide them to just introduce at least one youth player into the team? I don't buy that excuse (which is you trying to create a chicken and egg paradox), is it really just hard to make way for one youth player, you can't just trying to make excuses to try and not play them (whether its because they don't have enough experience or because their is no one to take them under the wing (Seriously? they are football players not Jedi knights) despite the fact that the likes of Terry and Ivanovic (who apparently are leaders) are regulars in the team. That's the reason why they have been rotting away on loan. Since Jose is apparently here for the long term and does not have to win anything this season (and possibly the next 2 seasons after that), there is no reason why he can't introduce them into the squad now and make them part of the "foundation" you claim is needed. You have to take chances with these players instead of spending £12 million on someone like Zouma who already has first team experience and basically means that we won't bother with the likes of Chalobah and Kalas. Just look at Everton and Martinez in his first season who have introduced Barkley and Stones into the squad, who don't have world class players like Hazard now has a really good chance of landing a top four spot, if he can do that in his first season then Jose has no excuse.

Once again, with Chalobah you may well have had a point. With Kalas I completely disagree because he's simply not good enough right now based on what I've seen. If you've got a specific game where you'd have liked to have seen him play and in which position then maybe you might have a kernel of a point. But I actually think you're whinging for the sake of it.

I'd also agree with you if you'd have said Lukaku, although there is a possibility that the two goals he scored in the Merseyside derby could be fairly important. But I'd have liked to have seen him retained in place of Ba (at the time I thought getting Eto'o was pointless but he's done well and proven me wrong).

Barkley has been inconsistent, as has Lukaku which is why you can't rely entirely on youth. Last season I would've been more inclined to agree with you but Mourinho is actually building something here. Once you have a firm foundation, then you can start to take chances on young players. Once you have a spine to the team, it's easier to introduce youngsters.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Once again, with Chalobah you may well have had a point. With Kalas I completely disagree because he's simply not good enough right now based on what I've seen. If you've got a specific game where you'd have liked to have seen him play and in which position then maybe you might have a kernel of a point. But I actually think you're whinging for the sake of it.

I'd also agree with you if you'd have said Lukaku, although there is a possibility that the two goals he scored in the Merseyside derby could be fairly important. But I'd have liked to have seen him retained in place of Ba (at the time I thought getting Eto'o was pointless but he's done well and proven me wrong).

Barkley has been inconsistent, as has Lukaku which is why you can't rely entirely on youth. Last season I would've been more inclined to agree with you but Mourinho is actually building something here. Once you have a firm foundation, then you can start to take chances on young players. Once you have a spine to the team, it's easier to introduce youngsters.

There is a difference between sending out teams mainly comprising of nothing but youth and giving at least 1-2 around out along on a pitch that will still have the desired experience of players such as Terry - at the end of the day there will be inconsistencies, that I'm not denying, but you have to take a risk instead of shelling out millions of pounds for other players because you don't want to mold them yourselves. And once you get the so called foundations what next? Will we not play them because they have not enough first team experience and farm them out on loan again, then after that make more excuses. Go that way and we never integrate with our academy, because of this fear of taking risks.

Put it this way, when Barkley was forced out on loan he did absolutely nothing, despite being in a lower league. But when he is given a chance he shines, and it shows with nearly everyone demanding him in the squad for the world cup

[The only place to be 11,313]

There is a difference between sending out teams mainly comprising of nothing but youth and giving at least 1-2 around out along on a pitch that will still have the desired experience of players such as Terry - at the end of the day there will be inconsistencies, that I'm not denying, but you have to take a risk instead of shelling out millions of pounds for other players because you don't want to mold them yourselves. And once you get the so called foundations what next? Will we not play them because they have not enough first team experience and farm them out on loan again, then after that make more excuses. Go that way and we never integrate with our academy, because of this fear of taking risks.

Put it this way, when Barkley was forced out on loan he did absolutely nothing, despite being in a lower league. But when he is given a chance he shines, and it shows with nearly everyone demanding him in the squad for the world cup

You'll find no greater supporter of youth around here than me, but this was not the season to fuck around with things and I'm sorry but if the best example you can come up with is Kalas then you're barking up the wrong tree. The defence was too important to make any changes to it. Bertrand couldn't get a game, neither can Cole so Kalas had no chance. It's unfortunate but unfortunately it seems necessary.

Chalobah could've played a role as a midfielder in Mikel or Essien's place. Neither of those is likely to be here next season so I'd be shocked if Chalobah doesn't get a chance.

Lukaku is probably the only other player you've got a case for (beyond Baker and Ake) and as I've said I'm massively disappointed with the fact he went out on loan and I think that could be the difference between us winning the league and not winning it.

But honestly I think your point is spurious at best and if you're bringing up the lack of playing time for Tomas Kalas as a point in deciding whether this was a successful season or not then I think this discussion has run it's course.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

You'll find no greater supporter of youth around here than me, but this was not the season to fuck around with things and I'm sorry but if the best example you can come up with is Kalas then you're barking up the wrong tree. The defence was too important to make any changes to it. Bertrand couldn't get a game, neither can Cole so Kalas had no chance. It's unfortunate but unfortunately it seems necessary.

Chalobah could've played a role as a midfielder in Mikel or Essien's place. Neither of those is likely to be here next season so I'd be shocked if Chalobah doesn't get a chance.

Lukaku is probably the only other player you've got a case for (beyond Baker and Ake) and as I've said I'm massively disappointed with the fact he went out on loan and I think that could be the difference between us winning the league and not winning it.

But honestly I think your point is spurious at best and if you're bringing up the lack of playing time for Tomas Kalas as a point in deciding whether this was a successful season or not then I think this discussion has run it's course.

Of course what I keep bringing up is the fact that when we see the expensive purchases of say someone like Zouma and the probability of buying an expensive striker (which would mean that the likes of Lukaku or Bamford not getting a run of starts) shows that there is no signs at all that we are actually going to do what Jose claimed in the summer and integrate players from the youth and reserve squads, as lets face it why would Jose want to actually try and get someone like Chalobah, Ake or Lukaku to be given a chance when he can just ask for expensive transfers for hyped up players like Zouma who get first team experience from their parent clubs. Like I said last time we only used young players if we payed a hefty price for them and this season and its transfers indicates that we are going to be doing exactly the same, which means that young players from our own academy, no matter how well they do in the u21 matches or while out on loan won't get a chance because Mourinho wants to buy and use ready made players or does that had most of their development done at other clubs before buying them, which is what I have been arguing time and time again.