Best CM Pairing?

[Phil Driver 503]

Yes Mikel could not even be trusted on the bench v Norwich ,I know reality is tough for you fanboys ,but you will learn

He has been dropped .

Jose saw "a big problem in the first half " v Spurs ,the problem has now been rectified and the action is plain to see for all those who have their eyes open .

[zolayes 14,489]

Im by no means a Mikel lover, but wasn't hepart of winning teams at The Emirates and WHL this time last year?

a year is a long time in football ...change that a week is a long time ,,,change that 15 minutes was a long time for spurs today ....CHANGE THAT ,,,I wonder how

the posts changed in the match thread in just TWO MINUTES

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Yes Mikel could not even be trusted on the bench v Norwich ,I know reality is tough for you fanboys ,but you will learn

He has been dropped .

Jose saw "a big problem in the first half " v Spurs ,the problem has now been rectified and the action is plain to see for all those who have their eyes open .

Could not be trusted? I hope you don't become a manager and put a defensive midfielder on the bench who maintains possession and is not good at breaking down opposition who defend in blocks of four.

Me the fanboy? Oh the irony.

And the 'big problem' you keep going about wasn't Mikel. It was Ramires on the wing, which you would have seen if your eyes were open. He was brought in and voila, Paulinho and Dembele had problems. Obviously Mikel had to be substituted cause he won't be able to break down. Though Lampard was quite decent that game, the fact that you give Lampard the credit for the hard work Rami did brilliantly shows how the English media works.

[Phil Driver 503]

Who was training alone at Cobham ? You really do not do perception do you ? Essien was on the bench ,Mikel is out of the picture ,what game are we supposed to be saving him for now? Mourinho has sussed him . Mourinho has Essien in front of Mikel now and he is right ,he is a special manager who agrees with me .

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Who was training alone at Cobham ? You really do not do perception do you ? Essien was on the bench ,Mikel is out of the picture ,what game are we supposed to be saving him for now? Mourinho has sussed him . Mourinho has Essien in front of Mikel now and he is right ,he is a special manager who agrees with me .

Technically he wasn't training at Cobham alone, cause um, you can't on a matchday. Perception. Meaning interpretation. Ways of interpreting a game? Innumerable. Correct ways of interpreting a game? Two or three max. Essien was on the bench as a right-back cover too, not just as CDM. The only reason we need cover in the pivot position for such a game is due to injury. There is no other reason, cause even if we were to change our entire tactical outlook, that position would be left unotuched. The story would have been different if Ramires started on the right wing again. So Essien was on the bench for a few games, and Jose has sussed him. brilliant analogy there. Special manager yes, agreeing with you? He'd probably having a right laugh after all he did to bring Mikel to the club.

[Phil Driver 503]

Phewwww you fanboys are still in denial .

Which match are we saving Mikel for now?

[hjperdeath 2,226]

edit : I'm done.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

I thought Lampard was better than his original performances in the pivot this season, but i want us to get someone like Cabaye in January. Im giving Lampard the chance to improve in that role under Mou but i dont think he'll ever be good as a younger and quicker midfielder+he cant play all games and its a problem when we have Mikel and Essien as the rotation players, who both fits better to be the Ramires replacements.

Cabaye could fit the need i think, and in the summer Gundogan i wish.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

I think need we need someone tougher defensively than Cabaye, someone in the mould of a Luis Gustavo, who is strong, quick, two footed, great at tackling, positioning and anticipation as well as being able to do the business, on the rare occasions it has to be said, going forward, bonus for being tall as well, and being able to cover the centre half position in case we wanna go three at the back and still be able to use Iva (or preferably Aspi) as a wing back.

Basically someone who is gonna bullet-proof the back four but still technically sound to play and participate in intricate passes.

[Magic Lamps 11,449]

I think need we need someone tougher defensively than Cabaye, someone in the mould of a Luis Gustavo, who is strong, quick, two footed, great at tackling, positioning and anticipation as well as being able to do the business, on the rare occasions it has to be said, going forward, bonus for being tall as well, and being able to cover the centre half position in case we wanna go three at the back and still be able to use Iva (or preferably Aspi) as a wing back.

Basically someone who is gonna bullet-proof the back four but still technically sound to play and participate in intricate passes.

Luiz Gustavo would be a start but s.o. who can also help the build up play, so our AMs don't have to retrieve all the time would be even better. Xabi Alonso is out of contract next summer...

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

I feel like Alonso would leave us a bit exposed at the back as well. And I don't mean Luiz Gustavo per se, but someone in that mould, United signed Fellaini for top dollar and he so far isn't cutting it, it's tough finding these sort of players who can take top clubs like ours up a notch. Spurs and City have excellent options for their two pivots.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

I feel like Alonso would leave us a bit exposed at the back as well. And I don't mean Luiz Gustavo per se, but someone in that mould, United signed Fellaini for top dollar and he so far isn't cutting it, it's tough finding these sort of players who can take top clubs like ours up a notch. Spurs and City have excellent options for their two pivots.

Gustavo and the likes of him wont take us to the next level, Gundogan and Alonso will. I disagree with you, we dont need a DM when we have Ramires, we need a DLP who knows how to defend as well, but his biggest role would be to control our game.

City and Spurs have a good pivot in PL standarts, very good, but not in the same level of the likes of Real, Bayern, Dortmund and Barca. Maybe its surprise you in City's aspect, but only because Toure is tremendously overrated as a Central Midfielder. Both teams would never be real world beaters with their current pivot, you can be sure. We want to be as good as the Top 4 of Europe, so we need more than a Gustavo-Ramires pivot.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

Gustavo and the likes of him wont take us to the next level, Gundogan and Alonso will. I disagree with you, we dont need a DM when we have Ramires, we need a DLP who knows how to defend as well, but his biggest role would be to control our game.

City and Spurs have a good pivot in PL standarts, very good, but not in the same level of the likes of Real, Bayern, Dortmund and Barca. Maybe its surprise you in City's aspect, but only because Toure is tremendously overrated as a Central Midfielder. Both teams would never be real world beaters with their current pivot, you can be sure. We want to be as good as the Top 4 of Europe, so we need more than a Gustavo-Ramires pivot.

Ramires isn't really a DM he's more of box to box player. although you can play him there. I was going for a more defensive player to really solidify our defence to play alongside him.

If we're going for a deep lying play-maker we could even use Oscar there who is great defensively also, but we then would have to go full possession mode as opposed to the mixed style we have playing.

[Phil Driver 503]

Oscar great defensively?what kind of stuff are you putting in your spliff.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Oscar great defensively?what kind of stuff are you putting in your spliff.

He's got high work rate, can make a lot of tackles in a game and is a nippy guy. Not that outrageous to say Oscar is good defensively.

[quickpassnmove 924]

I agree with u Gilvorak. haven't read the whole original post nor the entire thread here but this the same conversation I've been having with myself and same topic I raise every time on Chelsea discussion boards.

Ramires--although not perfect--is good enough for a top team in Europe as a CM. Reducing Chelsea's problems down to talking-points, here's what I see:

1. Chelsea have no playmaker nor anyone to give momentum and/or quick transition in CM, in their 4231 formation if not for Ramires. By extension, the opposition can focus on Ramires because no one else provides a threat until Mata gets the ball centrally or Hazard wide, further up the pitch. As someone else has stated in this thread, the other CMs shift the responsibility of creating forward momentum and forward ground passes to --someone else-- constantly.

2. Chelsea have failed to sign anyone as good as Makelele and Ballack for how long now? Reiterating point number one, when a neutral fan or opposition fan sees Chelsea play, it's clear as day that Chelsea have nothing coming out of CM. Nothing unless Ramires is there and finds some time/space.

3. Never should have re-signed Frank Lampard. yes, I said that and I'm not much a fan of Frank Lampard unless he's a sub in a 433 formation. Frank's game consists of poaching in and around the box and some long balls. He can't pass forward, from deep on the ground, he will NOT face-up and take on a defender (always turns away), and he lacks the speed to retreat back into defense once he's tried to creep forward for one of his famous late-arriving goals.

4. Chelsea should have been building this team from the back and displacing poor CMs like Mikel and Lampard in 2010 and 2011. This is long overdue. Instead, Chelsea have neglected the all-around CMs to build their squad and opted for multiple attacking players, none of whom (save Lukaku) have the ability to keep the ball up the pitch or prevent being dispossessed with their size and strength. Of course, Torres single greatest failing isn't his finishing but his total inability to contend with Premier League center backs.

5. I can agree with AVB's sentiment about Chelsea as indicated by his statement earlier this year about Chelsea still be "in crisis." Not really a "crisis," but unsteady, weak in the spine of the team, shaky confidence, and full of insufficiency. undermined by the club's choices since January 2011, this club is still seeing the effects of 2011 and not buying good CMs and a top RB in its rearview mirror... frequently unsteady when facing a disciplined side with top talent in CM and unable to shift into a higher gear, unable to increase passing tempo and attack in transition with a jumpstart.

[quickpassnmove 924]

De Bruyne checks all boxes for me as CM in the pivot and exceptionally well as the CM in a 4-3-3 formation.

Luiz as a CM should only be employed if we are chasing a game. Remember Villa last season away?

I would like to see an occasion where Chelsea use a traditional 4-3-3 and employ Ramires as center, deBruyne on the RCM and Oscar on the LCM.

[English Freak 456]

I would like to see an occasion where Chelsea use a traditional 4-3-3 and employ Ramires as center, deBruyne on the RCM and Oscar on the LCM.

Well said.

Also, if De Bruyne can improve the defensive side of his game...we could have a solid pivot with Ramires - De Bruyne for years to come.

De Bruyne has all the skills to become a good CM and I think that's where his future lies..considering the amount of attacking talent we have at the moment.