Best CM Pairing?

[Kojo 4,676]

I disagree. He's not world-class, but he's pretty close, imo. He proved that in our CL winning season. In terms of box-to-box midfielders, there are very few better.

Ramires does great things there and then, but that doesn't mean he's world class. He's got very poor ball control and a bad first touch, he's almost an average player without his pace, his pace determines his game that much. He's not world class, not even near, he hasn't got great technical aspects, he's only flashy now and then and has a great set of legs, he's also not a very smart player going forward. He's got a great burst of pace running up, but he lacks so much flair and creativity when he's in even the most simple of positions.

If he is close to world class then there must be about 200 world class players in the world right now at least.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Ramires does great things there and then, but that doesn't mean he's world class. He's got very poor ball control and a bad first touch, he's almost an average player without his pace, his pace determines his game that much. He's not world class, not even near, he hasn't got great technical aspects, he's only flashy now and then and has a great set of legs, he's also not a very smart player going forward. He's got a great burst of pace running up, but he lacks so much flair and creativity when he's in even the most simple of positions.

If he is close to world class then there must be about 200 world class players in the world right now at least.

What's wrong with relying on your pace? Ronaldo and Bale have made a career of it (No I am not saying that Rami is as good as either). But what I think makes Rami close to world-class is his delivery at the end of those amazing runs. His ability to finish at top speed after running more than 50 meters or find the killer pass on a regular basis is unmatched by any footballer I know.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

Our best CM pair? Hard to say really, because we havent really tested much yet. One thing I can say though, is that by playing Ramires+Lampard we lose alot of what Ramires should be doing.

I belive Ramires+Essien could work really well. I can also see Ramires+MvG being favourable in a near future.

[Gorando 184]

Oscar-De Rossi

[Phil Driver 503]

Jose has obviously studied this posiotion and he has got it perfectly right as you would expect . Rammy /Lampard by far our best ,have we been terrible this season or something for them not to play at Everton as they will . Jos does not fancy Luiz in there apparently ,I do and would have as next best,followed by Van Ginkel and Essien.

But in summing up Jose has got this spot on and the pairing we have now is obviously first choice for the season ,with Rammy growing in the role Jose has identified for him.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Agree. Ramires and Lampard are perfect for now.

[BOSS 372]

We should try KDB in the pivot.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

We should try KDB in the pivot.

Bossed it when he was at Werder Bremen.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Ramires - Van Ginkel

Ramires - Essien

I think one of those two, realy waiting for Mou to play it.

But please no Lampard and no Mikel for me.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Agree. Ramires and Lampard are perfect for now.

Really? Ramires is average in that holding role, especially against stronger teams, and Lampard just gets completely by-passed by opposition midfielders. I think we have much better options than that.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Really? Ramires is average in that holding role, especially against stronger teams, and Lampard just gets completely by-passed by opposition midfielders. I think we have much better options than that.

nah we're basing it on the fact that right now we're not exactly playing our best. the blame obviously falls on them. when someone else is in that role and it becomes worse, the blame will fall on them. I'll put my faith in Jose. He's testing things out. If it's bad, he'll probably realize.

[BOSS 372]

Bossed it when he was at Werder Bremen.

Yeah he has everything to a great CM. He would be our Modric.

[Stingray 9,441]

Haven't seen enough of the possible combo's to know, I think actually. How would Essien do, can Van Ginkel do what he did in pre-season? Multiply by Lamps, Ramires, Mikel and even Oscar/KDB.

Mmmm.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

nah we're basing it on the fact that right now we're not exactly playing our best. the blame obviously falls on them. when someone else is in that role and it becomes worse, the blame will fall on them. I'll put my faith in Jose. He's testing things out. If it's bad, he'll probably realize.

Not just based on how we're playing, but also based on what we know Ramires is capable of in a more advanced role, for example and based on what I know about Lampard's usual defensive contribution. I mean how well does Jose really know the squad at the moment? Like you said, he's still testing things out.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Not just based on how we're playing, but also based on what we know Ramires is capable of in a more advanced role, for example and based on what I know about Lampard's usual defensive contribution. I mean how well does Jose really know the squad at the moment? Like you said, he's still testing things out.

let's just stick to the last part.

[Phil Driver 503]

How well does Jose know Lampard ?

And we know he has identified the role for Ramires you dont think he will drop it after four games and our very good start ,do you?

[manpe 10,861]

Any kind of CM pairing we can field is too weak for what our standard should be. Therefore I find it hard to name a best pair, managers have shuffled through all the permutations and I've yet to see any that make those positions theirs. And I guess the managers agree, otherwise they wouldn't have shuffled.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

De Bruyne didn't play anything like our central midfield in Bremen. he played attacking midfielder and in the Bremen system, he often played almost as a second striker. He simply is not nearly good enough to play effectively in a pivot. His tackle success rate is 25% (He either misses or fouls on the other 75%). That's not bad, that's atrocious. This year he has been successful on 20% of tackles so far so that trend is continuing. Not a guy you want sitting in front of your defenders. (Ramires and Lampard have won 66% and 53% of duels respectively, and 53% is not good but twice as good as De Bruyne).

I also think our central midfield has just become the focus for what is wrong with the team for years (mostly because we haven't bought anybody new and don't have anyone young there and people really have new and young player obsessions) and tends to be blamed for everything, but while I don't see any pairing as ideal, right now, it is hardly THE major hole in our team the way people want to portray it. When he have been vulnerable defensively, it has almost inevitably been on the wings. Overall, in the three league games, our central midfield has been quite good. The two players have combined for 6.3 tackles a game to only 1.7 fouls. They have 1 goal and 1 assist. They've combined for almost 88% passing and no defensive errors. I'm sick of seeing every single game where we struggle at all being "the pivot is too slow", "we need the pivot to blah blah blah" as the default to why things are wrong. I'm not saying that it isn't sometimes at fault just that it gets blamed for everything. They have to have a fantastic game to get any praise. I think there are a myriad of reasons for this. One is that people don't seem to fundamentally understand what central midfielders in a system like Mourinho's are supposed to do.

[Kojo 4,676]

What's wrong with relying on your pace? Ronaldo and Bale have made a career of it (No I am not saying that Rami is as good as either). But what I think makes Rami close to world-class is his delivery at the end of those amazing runs. His ability to finish at top speed after running more than 50 meters or find the killer pass on a regular basis is unmatched by any footballer I know.

Ramires doesn't have much besides pace.

[laeth 527]

Can anyone explain exactly why Oscar can't play in the pivot?

Because when Mourinho is picking his team, Oscar goes dark green in the pivot and bright green in CAM.