Best CM Pairing?

[Kojo 4,676]

Lampard-Ramires

John Obi Mikel can't cover much space, he is only good for games we are playing in our own half.

MVG is young and inexperienced, it would be stupid to say he's our best midfielder.

Essien is not the player he was 3 years ago, good backup player but not the best for our midfield.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I don't want Oscar sitting in the CM position. I strongly believe he's a much better number 10 than anyone else in our squad and I really wish he'd get a decent run of games to show that. His intellect, awareness and footwork is impressive for someone who looks so nervous every time I see him play

He's shown with Brazil that he can operate behind the strikers and give MotM winning displays.

[Barbara 15,149]

I would need to see Oscar playing in the pivot a few matches in a row to be convinced we should move him from a position he's been killing and giving us so much both defensively and offensively which leads me choose to keep him exactly where he is.

If we want to improve our CM we should sign a world class CM, not turn one of our best CAM into a CM. It's a simple equation imo.

David Luiz even as a CB will improve our transition and distribution imo and make up for partially for our CM distribution - which is still our biggest problem in the pivot. Luiz often pass the ball to our AM (wingers and central) with medium and long passes. And of course Mourinho stubbornness using Lamps game in, game out. The good news about Lamps though is sooner rather than later he'll pick a knock because he physically can't play twice a week for too long. Blessing in disguise I'd say (his physicality, not Mou's stubbornness)

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Regarding Oscar, I think he can play as the most advanced CM in a 4-3-3 (which isn't much different than the number 10 role in a 4-2-3-1) but not in the pivot. Oscar for me is perfect for the number 10 role. He likes to drop deep to receive the ball, he has an excellent eye for a pass and he's an absolute workhorse. He chases the ball well and harasses the opposition holding midfielder/play maker and can drop to help out the pivot as well. But the pivot is a completely different role. He won't be able to run with the ball, he won't be able to play around the box where he's at his creative best so you would be restricting his best assets. Defensively in the pivot, he will need to be a bit stronger to fight off opposition. He will also need to stay disciplined, mark areas instead of players, and block channels and passing angles instead of trying to nick the ball like he currently does. I don't think he can do that.

I think this "urge" to play Oscar in the pivot comes because everyone is trying to fit all the attacking players we have into one formation, but you have to realize that that won't happen.

David Luiz will improve our transition and distribution imo and make up for partially for our CM distribution - which is still our biggest problem in the pivot.

Luiz provides much better distribution from CB. At CM he looses the ball way too much because he has much less time and space on the ball. As a CM, his distribution is at best average but as a CB his ball distribution is absolutely world-class.

[Barbara 15,149]

Luiz provides much better distribution from CB. At CM he looses the ball way too much because he has much less time and space on the ball. As a CM, his distribution is at best average but as a CB his ball distribution is absolutely world-class.

I never meant for him to move to the CM position. I meant as a CB he'll make up for the poor distribution from our CM. I edited my post to make it clear, as you made me see that maybe I was implying I want him playing as a CM - which I don't.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I never meant for him to move to the CM position. I meant as a CB he'll make up for the poor distribution from our CM.

Apologies, then

Btw, JT is not bad at ball distribution either. In fact, I'd say he's incredibly good. Doesn't attempt as many long balls as DL, but his accuracy with them is unreal.

[Ollie 4,400]

I still believe David Luiz is our best option for the CM spot because of how he can defend and attack and has great strength and battling qualities. Against Bayern we really lacked quality going from back to front. Luiz and Ramires for me all day long.

[xPetrCechx 13,570]

Lampard/Essien-Ramires

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I still believe David Luiz is our best option for the CM spot because of how he can defend and attack and has great strength and battling qualities. Against Bayern we really lacked quality going from back to front. Luiz and Ramires for me all day long.

Luiz was terrible at CM against any half-decent opposition last season. He's too aggressive in defense which leads to players getting past him too often, he leaves massive gaps between the lines and his passing accuracy was terrible for a pivot player.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Can anyone explain exactly why Oscar can't play in the pivot?

[Barbara 15,149]

I still believe David Luiz is our best option for the CM spot because of how he can defend and attack and has great strength and battling qualities. Against Bayern we really lacked quality going from back to front. Luiz and Ramires for me all day long.

I like him there as well, but I think it's the same situation as Oscar... you're moving the guy from the position he excels and it's his natural to a position that while he can do really well, doesn't compare to his production in his natural position. I think we need to have the players where they give us the best results, and for me Luiz does it in the CB and Oscar in the CAM. They could move there when we have problems in CM in a match or two, but I don't want to move them there permanently because it feels like a waste.

We can benefit of their special skills (Luiz passing and running and Oscar defending) in their natural positions more than in the alternative exactly because they offer something others don't.

So having a CB like Luiz with his vision of the pitch and his teammates and his good medium/long pass is a competitive advantage others don't have. If he moves to the CM a lot of CM's have it and many of them better than him, so comparing to our opposition we'll have an okay guy there. The same with Oscar as a CAM. His work-rate doesn't compare to any other CAM I can name now. Of course tons of CAMs defend as well, but not to the extent (and quality) Oscar does. And it's a differential compared to other teams because instead of tackling and recovering the ball in the second third, sometimes he'll do it in the last third and get us a fulminate and unexpected attack. It's almost like counter-attack except that it can't be a counter if it's already in the opposition's defense.

I think those aspects - having a guy with great skills that aren't common in the position - is the biggest competitive differential Luiz and Oscar offer respectively as CB and CAM.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Can anyone explain exactly why Oscar can't play in the pivot?

Regarding Oscar, I think he can play as the most advanced CM in a 4-3-3 (which isn't much different than the number 10 role in a 4-2-3-1) but not in the pivot. Oscar for me is perfect for the number 10 role. He likes to drop deep to receive the ball, he has an excellent eye for a pass and he's an absolute workhorse. He chases the ball well and harasses the opposition holding midfielder/play maker and can drop to help out the pivot as well. But the pivot is a completely different role. He won't be able to run with the ball, he won't be able to play around the box where he's at his creative best so you would be restricting his best assets. Defensively in the pivot, he will need to be a bit stronger to fight off opposition. He will also need to stay disciplined, mark areas instead of players, and block channels and passing angles instead of trying to nick the ball like he currently does. I don't think he can do that.

I think this "urge" to play Oscar in the pivot comes because everyone is trying to fit all the attacking players we have into one formation, but you have to realize that that won't happen.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

Ramires - Mikel

Mikel - van Ginkel

Ramires - van Ginkel

seem the best fits based on their playing styles.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

Regarding Oscar, I think he can play as the most advanced CM in a 4-3-3 (which isn't much different than the number 10 role in a 4-2-3-1) but not in the pivot. Oscar for me is perfect for the number 10 role. He likes to drop deep to receive the ball, he has an excellent eye for a pass and he's an absolute workhorse. He chases the ball well and harasses the opposition holding midfielder/play maker and can drop to help out the pivot as well. But the pivot is a completely different role. He won't be able to run with the ball, he won't be able to play around the box where he's at his creative best so you would be restricting his best assets. Defensively in the pivot, he will need to be a bit stronger to fight off opposition. He will also need to stay disciplined, mark areas instead of players, and block channels and passing angles instead of trying to nick the ball like he currently does. I don't think he can do that.

I think this "urge" to play Oscar in the pivot comes because everyone is trying to fit all the attacking players we have into one formation, but you have to realize that that won't happen.

Luiz provides much better distribution from CB. At CM he looses the ball way too much because he has much less time and space on the ball. As a CM, his distribution is at best average but as a CB his ball distribution is absolutely world-class.

De Bruyne checks all boxes for me as CM in the pivot and exceptionally well as the CM in a 4-3-3 formation.

Luiz as a CM should only be employed if we are chasing a game. Remember Villa last season away?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

De Bruyne checks all boxes for me as CM in the pivot and exceptionally well as the CM in a 4-3-3 formation.

I agree about KDB and he did play in the pivot some games for Bremen last season and I think he did fairly well. But I'd still prefer him as the most advanced CM in a 4-3-3.