Best Formation for current Chelsea Squad?

[Barbara 15,149]

I think right now the formation depends on who we sign in the summer. I like 4-2-3-1, but I don't think we have human material to afford it right now, so the best alternative is the boring 4-3-3 (sorry, I don't like it, although it suits us much better than 4-2-3-1)

I think one of the biggest problems last season was that a 4-2-3-1 formation requires mandatory three players:

1. DLP. If I understand well what you guys have been explaining me about English football positions this guy is absolutely essential to make the formation work. As there are four defenders and three attacking midfields that play closer to the box the players corresponding the 2 have to be the guys that own the midfield. In modern football whether is objective as Bayern or a tick taka Barcelona, the game happens in the middle field. If a team decides to play 4-2-3-1 and doesn't have at least one outstanding guy among the 2 what happens is erratic transition from defense to attack, slow movement, bigger exposure to opponent tacklers, facilitating opponent's defensive work among others. We didn't have this guy in Ramires, less alone Mikel. That alone should have been reason enough to avoid tihs formation, but as all big teams now use it with few exceptions, it feels like it's mandatory
2. CAM playmaker: we have two great guys playing this role: Mata and Hazard. Given how amazingly Eden plays in the left flank, I'd favor Mata in the center position. We didn't have playmaking problems last season. So we're more than okay in this position. Some may suggest Oscar and even KDB here but I don't think either show their best in this position.
3. Complete (technically) striker. Not only this guy has to know how to score, have a bit of matador in him, but he has to be committed tactically and learn how to defend. Someone like Benzema, Higuaín, Ronaldo, Romário, to name a few active and inactive players (although Romário was lazy and he wouldn't be that successful in this formation - he plays perfectly on a 4-4-2 though). This guy in addition to having great finishing, needs to know how to tackle the ball. Again, regardless of the chosen formation modern teams need defensive players to know how to pass the ball decently and attacking players have to know how to tackle and go to the defensive field when required. It's another position we had issues. I don't like Torres, Ba never proved to have adapted to Chelsea, and while we had problems with them capitalizing for the team, we also had problems with their lack of ability (Ba and Torres) and laziness (Torres) to actually offer the first combat to recover the ball or even more the effort to reduce opponents' space, putting pressure on the opponent (as this first tackle isn't enough). People say a lot about Barcelona's (boring) football that dominates midfield, has high possession and completely controls the match. But what impresses me the most about Barcelona is how effective (and while with Pep perfectly) their defense play. You see Messi, Pedro, used to see Villa tackling and going behind to recover the ball. Not only Torres and Ba were far from impressive scoring, they're down right pathetic technically and defensively.

I can't see a team being competitive in a 4-2-3-1 formation if they don't have those key players which is why we failed to be competitive last season and fight for EPL title and go deeper in UCL. They don't need to be world class - as really, it's not easy to afford (not only because of money, but because of offer). But the problem is that we didn't have the DPL at all and our strikers were mediocre.

The ideal for a 4-2-3-1 formation would require signings and I'd go randomly with this (the players between parenthesis are references for the position, not a viable signing):

We have three amazing AM in Mazacar. I think Mata's best position is CAM while Eden's and Oscar's are LW. Eden has to play in the LW no matter what, he is our best player imo, and the best should always play where he fits better. Mata while good in both flanks, is way better when he's in the center so, we should keep him there. I favor Oscar playing as a RW because honestly if we want to keep him in the team (and I particularly want) that's where he would fit, despite not being able to shoot well with both feet.

I chose Terry and Ivanovic instead of any of them + Cahill because I'm never relaxed when Cahill is playing. He's passing is terrible, his defensive skills while good, are far from world class. I believe if healthy Terry still has a season on him and I favor Ivanovic over Cahill. The truth is a guy like Thiago Silva or Varane (as both certainly aren't leaving PSG and RM) would also be welcomed. Maybe a young guy that José could work just like he did with Varane and slowly bring him to the team. Hopefully we could bring this guy as well because while good on paper, we know Terry is no boy anymore and his body isn't the same and chances are he will injure himself again and then need time to get rhythm again, and bla bla bla.

I don't see KDB in the team yet, although I like him a lot. He could rotate with Oscar very often during the season, but let's say 2 years from now, I see KDB - Eden - Oscar with Mata rotating with Eden - if Mata is still in the club at all.

I also promoted Luiz to the 2 because of two things: he's talented enough to develop his game (especially under Mourinho's wing) and he would like that, we would still need a DLP, but that's up to Roman and his team to provide.

For the DLP position I don't know who we could actually sign. The references for me are Xabi - the best of all - and Bastian. And as a striker I just considered Cavani because of the rumors. I don't think he's that amazing, but he's good enough (although pricey).

Also for this formation to work really well the players have to confuse the opponents defenders, so the yellow arrows are tactical changes between positions during the match. If a team for example decides to get a guy to 'follow' Eden in the pitch, if Eden switches positions with Oscar or Mata, it makes the rivals work to tackler harder. The blue arrows are the usual attack advances by LD, RD, DLP, CM, DM while the red arrows are the expected defensive movement (especially in a team where Mourinho is the manager)

Now, without projections and working with the team we have now (considering Schrulle is already part of it) I think 4-3-3 is what could work.

I know, too defensive. But I think if we don't get new signings (unlikely) or if they're young players that are to be used in the future instead of promptly, that's what Mourinho will bring to the table. While not a defensive manager per say, Mourinho is known for having very firm and effective defenses and as we had a LOT of defense problems last season, I think that's where we should begin.

As season progresses and KDB gains confidence and chemistry with the team I see it changing to:

In the first model Schurrle would be the most advanced while Mata and Hazard would have more advanced positions with Oscar approaching them often. The formation screams for a FW, but I refuse to have Torres in any team formation I idealize... that's why he's absent no matter what I project. But yeah, if we must move Mata to the right, keep Eden in the left and have Torres in the middle. That was what should have been done last season instead of the horrible 4-2-3-1. While Oscar doesn't excel the long passes he's better than the alternatives we had and don't remind me of Ramires as a winger because it still makes me want to hit my head in the wall.

I'm too lazy to do the arrows, but the defensive and attack moves from the 4 backs and the 3 forwarders would be similar to the 4-2-3-1. The main difference is the midfield. Luiz would advance less often and Ramires would continue to play his box-to-box style while Oscar would often advance. Oscar would also be responsible to increase the pace (and quality) between defense-midfield-attack, receiving the ball preferably from Ramires - whose passing quality oscillates a lot (but normally is bad and sometimes good) and Luiz. Luiz also has better long passing than Ramires and he has a nice game vision and could help us either with long passes or simply carrying the ball and advancing towards the attack - as well as Oscar.

In the second model we have de Bruyne replacing Ramires, but only in theory. For it to work defensively, KDB would be the one advancing to the attack more often while Azpilicueta would remain behind most time. It's a bit sacrificial, but Kevin's crosses are much more accurate and Azpili is very good defending. Luiz would also be more static in a defensive midfield position, protecting the defense as we say in Brazil. Oscar would continue to have freedom to go and come, as well as Kevin, and in this scenario we wouldn't really have a b2b midfield - something some people really like. But if the entire team moves in 'waves' we don't miss much a b2b like Ramires. When the team is defending both 3's will move back and when attacking both 3 are in the attacking field - with Luiz staying closer to the defense.

I'm tired after so much typing and drawing. I'm never doing this again, hahaha.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Wow, nice job on taking your time for sharing your thoughts. I salute you.

These are my comments...

In Mourinho's 4-2-3-1 specially, the lines between defense, midfield, and attack are a bit farther and this means theres a whole lot of work the midfielders have to do in transition.

When you look at the 4-2-3-1 that Spain plays for example, you have xavi really close to the pivot, and the players like iniesta are closer, hence the whole team really attacks and defends more together than a team like Mourinho's as shown in real madrid.

So theres a difference in 4-2-3-1, and depending on the players you have and how you organize it, it can give you different results. Thats one of the reasons many use it, as it is flexible.. Or can be...Mourinho failed with madrid..seriously lol.

For a team with such lines, he needed a good pivot...and he didnt make it one.

About the 1st point you make about DLP...you should read the comments ive made eariler in this page and the previous one i believe.

You dont necessarily need a DLP but you clearly need someone who is preferably mobile and has good passing ability, and able to launch counter attacks with his passing and preferably with runs.

You could have pivots of

CDM CDM

DM CM

B2B/ DLP

ETC.

Spain's is more along the first one.

Madrid's was the third one under mourinho.

Meaning Alonso stayed behind and sprayed balls, while khedira moved around to help link up and defense. A jack of all trades master of none.

The problem here is that Alonso is a very slow and immobile player. A nuissance if you dont have a correct system. Technically always a nuissance if you have a player that can bring what he can, but with mobility.

So Alonso could easily be marked out of games, and annihlated if marked and was overall nevr a good pick to be in a pivot with khedira.

The problem with khedira is that he lacks so much speed and technical ability that he becomes irrelevant, and the midfield gets overun by faster or technically superior players/systems.

Mascherano worked so well with Alonso because mascherano could really lay the heat in the midfield and protected Alonso more.

In Madrid, the pivot consistently got raped. With alonso you would preferably have a very complete b2b like yaya toure if you wanted a b2b but mourinho failed.

So here you can have multiple types of players, you dont need a DLP, as it is also a bit more one dimensional if you wanted to change formations. Alonso is bullsht compared to someone like gundogan when it comes to overall quality and resources. Sorry for my frankness.

Alonso could provide some defense though and thats why he had his time in spain as he had a system that let him perform well. But gundogan like players are much more reliable in variety.

Now about the Cam position...

In any 4-2-3-1 its preferable to have an ACM if you can, Maybe you can have a Cam next to him, Mata is Not ACM, Oscar from what ive heard from the peers in the forum can be capable of doing this.

An ACM simply put is a player like iniesta or isco who can drop deeper and be LM , ACM, CM, etc if they have to.

They can form part of a 3 man midfield.

Busquets

Xavi Iniesta

Iniesta is the ACM.

Del bosque tried to make Xavi and ACM of a sort but he is not really adequate there and thats why he doesnt shine as much regularly for spain as for barcelona.

Mata, SIlva, Ozil...They cant do this... they should be put at the right, and thats why i expect to see with chelsea, and madrid, and maybe even city.

Isco could have been very good for city but they got owned in the race.

Anyways...

Oscar is more suitable for this role than any other player in the team.

There are things such as work rate, and stamina, and vision, and tactical awareness that you need from these players, so that they can be part of the midfield and attack and help you win midfield battles.

You cant have a pivot with a low work rate ACM and pretend to win.

Oscar has better work rate and possibly the correct resources that mata and eden dont.

Hazard Oscar Mata it is imo.

Also about the DLP'S i forgot to mention that when you have guys like pique, bonucci, varane, aka good passers of the ball, the deep playing aspects of deep playing playmakers could be replaced.

You could have a midfield of a midfield ram like Toure and schweinsteiger and Kroos, with a ball playing cb coming in from behind with passes.

Ideally you would have good work rate on your players but id expect to see the work rate to improve in all of chelsea players to improve team performance.

Schweinsteiger is not a DLP hes more of a B2B CM.

Food for thought.

Btw you cant have someone like alonso as high up as he is in your formation.

I dont knot about luiz but i doubt he has the tools to be anything more than a utility player as a midfield player.

He should stay in the back line if you want a credible team.

Illaramendi has good defense and is a bit of a CDM alonso type player, but much more mobile.

You can put another cdm like lars bender. Or a b2b with exceptional defending abilities.

[Barbara 15,149]

@, hello fellow Madrid fan

We disagree about a lot of things, but I'm one of those people that welcomes different points of view, so we can learn something new or realize something we haven't.

Well, I think Mourinho improved RM a lot. I didn't watch much this past season, but I watched nearly every RM match in the two previous seasons.

You don't seem to like Xabi much, while he's the best in his position imo. Schweinsteiger is a closer second simply out of bias, because although I love Bastian, I hate Bayern and Real Madrid is my team in Spain, so I'm probably being biased.

I'm not going to cover the Alonso part then as we clearly have different takes about him. I just think that a player with his quality to pass the ball short, medium and long distance and his vision of the field can afford to be static and slow. He doesn't need to run, he makes the ball run instead. But we can agree to disagree.

I agree with you that a formation like 4-2-3-1 can be played in many ways - most positions allow that. I didn't have anything in mind about where I positioned the players. I think the more mobile a team is, the more effective it becomes, so if it's forming a line, a curve, a diagram, a diamond, etc, I don't care much as teams are much more volatile and versatile than that.

I think Bastian is perfect as a DM that advances often towards, so you might be right in your b2b assessment. I just see him as a guy who has quality pass, whose position in the formation is in the '2' and who has great positioning and tacking skills. As I said he only comes second to Xabi in the position imo.

I really dislike Busquets because he's a cunt. He dives and acts too much and I can't support a player that cheats like him... no matter how technically good he is.

Mascherano is one of my fave in the original volante position, as we call in Brazil. He's a hard worker and he does his job tactically and technically as few players in the world. The thing is his work isn't the one that brights in a team like Barça but he is seriously underrated.

And last but not least, I've seen Oscar playing since he was in SPCF and then in Inter and now in Chelsea. I think he suits much better the wingers than the CAM (or ACM, I suck with those positions names in English). He's playing literally #10 in our NT during CC and while I think his less than impressive matches are because he's exhausted and Scolari is blind and stupid not to spare him while he could afford it, I also think the position he plays in the team doesn't help him.

I'm not literally comparing, but Fred and Torres sort of have the same role in Chelsea and Brazil as well as Neymar and Eden (I don't think Neymar really compares to anyone else but Cristiano Ronaldo, but if we're just looking for the formation and seeing him as a winger, then let's compare him to Eden). So Oscar has sort of the same kind of players around him in Brazil... and I think he played much better for Chelsea than he's been playing for Brazil. Then again having 90+ matches in less than a year does that to you. So I'd rather he to go to the flank rather than stay in the center. But it's a personal preference, not the absolute truth about where he is better. so I'll stick with him in the right side, although he's better in the left.

Also, I think I forgot to mention in my previous post, and that's something important. Mazacar can play whatever way they want between LW, RW and CAM, I still believe Oscar and Eden are better in the LW and Mata in the CAM, but they can perform decently in all three (which is why I had the yellow arrows showing as much)

It's late now here and to be honest, I haven't read any post prior to mine, so I missed your previous posts in the thread, but I'll check them tomorrow and then we continue to talk.

always great to read thoughtful and insightful opinions like yours.

Cheers.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Thank you for the Kind reply Bluefire, it is truly enlightening and refreshing to see such kind reception to different ideas these days.

I have a blog on Real Madrid, maybe you would like it.

http://therealmadridzone.blogspot.com/2013/06/mourinhos-legacy-bringing-mourinho-to.html

That link is a link about my description on Mourinho.

Its a bit harsh but true the way i see, with "logical" back up.

But for sake of keeping peace with many in the forum, i will refrain from talking too negatively about Mourinho's time in Madrid, as i can. It wasnt really good is all i can say and the heavy burden falls on him.

Now about Alonso..

I just wanna say that, as a DLP theres probably not much better than he was during his prime years because there werent and arent much high class DLP's to begin with.

In madrid he served a bit as The DM/DLP/, his role was defend and send balls.

The problem is that he is so IMMOBILE that he gets easily marked. He really is a nuissance if he doesnt have the correct system playing with him and around him. That is why Alonso got destroyed In the Man United Tie, and We got destroyed in the dortmund tie.

Hence in the 2nd leg of the Dortmund tie in the Semi Finals, Modric was played next to alonso since they had to go for broke, and Dortmund had much more to worry about than alonso, while also giving Him more liberty to pass to a capable creative midfielder.

But this wouldnt work day in day out. Not one bit.

Alonso is only getting worst, and with the players Madrid now has and also considering he is out till october with injury and that this is his last year in contract, i see him and khedira to relinquish starter spots in Madrid, and alonso to leave Period.

Options for defensive midfielders are limited for Madrid and it seems that by the end our mid might be..

Kondogbia

Modric Isco.

Or something along the lines.

Bastian is a B2B because he can do a bit of everything but is def different to another B2B like Toure. Hes A B2B CM thats as best as i can describe it.

Good defense and CM quality performance.

Of course, Alonso could make the ball run but remember that he has to help the defense and have ability to move specially when the lines are so distant, and his team is a counter attacking team.

Gundogan would be perfect for madrid for this reason and is rumored to join next season.

Midfield is everything and midfield battles have to be won. If anything Oscar seems to me like he could do the ACM thing at the very least in the middle.

There are alot of things going on with brazil but let me remind you that Oscar plays the whole season with Chelsea, not the same with Brazil.

Not the same cohesion and connection.

Brazil have also looked kinda bad in my opinion. Only neymar has looked dynamic.

The other day they were playing with Paulinho and Luiz Gustavo and Oscar in the number 10 role if im not mistaken.

It wasnt going to end well with two players behind him that are jacks of all trades but masters at none.

It gives a bit of an Image to brazil, and in the end atm i dont think id see them beat spain or germany for example.

[Barbara 15,149]

After a couple of weeks, I think I've got a better idea of what you guys call wingers and what you guys call CAM's who drop a bit to the sides. Also I've watched closer some of Oscar and Eden's vids with their passes, highlights, assists and goals and I admit I was wrong.

My memory sucks and seeing how he was just average in CC (as a traditional #10) - I think due to fatigue more than anything else - I've got the wrong idea.

So I must admit I made a few mistakes in my previous analysis. Oscar and Hazard don't really add width. Hazard adds pace and Oscar depth.

I was mostly confused by a very tired Oscar and my sucking memory (I think he really played an okay CC at most). Then clearing up my confusion about what a ~rested Oscar can produce vs exhausted Oscar, I think Oscar works better as a CAM. I still believe though we should be playing (with the current squad) 4-3-3 instead of 4-2-3-1 because I still think we don't have a DLP (one who is ready anyway) and an outstanding striker - both essential for the formation to work the best.

This is the new idea I've got based on every input I've read recently mainly about Oscar and Schurrle. I'm not adding Ginkel because I don't think he has a place in the starting XI and I'm not adding Torres because I refuse to use him or other guys because as each day passes I believe less and less we'll sign a big forwarder which is quite the depressing prospect.

It seems like Schurrle is better on the left wing, but Hazard is our main player in my opinion and he should play in his best position, and the others should accommodate to that.

I'm not considering Oscar a pivot or a DLP in this formation, just the most advanced player in midfield with tons of freedom to roam around. His tackling, work rate, stamina, interception and defensive skills could make a difference recovering the ball in our opponents field, somewhere between the 2nd 1/3 and the 3rd 1/3. That's where a player like him can make the difference because he can steal the ball and quickly either advance and strike or pass. If we move him to the pivot or just deeper, I think he'll be average. He'll be too far from the box and he isn't defensively good (or strong) enough to play the pivot.

In the future (like much later this season or next season) I can see him taking Mata's position and then I don't know what to do with Mata as he clearly can't play the position I have Oscar in this formation (cause he doesn't tackle much, doesn't have much stamina, is slower, etc...).

Shirley - from what I read - plays the same style as Cristiano Ronaldo which is yet another position I've read, but can't remember the name. He'd be the most advanced striker in this, but he won't be centered. He'd play in the flank and then cutting inside and advancing towards the goal. I don't expect him to assist much - just like Cris doesn't - but to move vertically (and fast) - and just shoot to the goal.

After a very unstable year(s) in our defense zone I think we need both Mikel and Ramires and I can't find a place for Lampard in the starting XI. Mikel is stronger and will definitely do the harder work defending, while Ramires would be the second one to combat the opponents, and then Oscar.

Hazard as I said is the team's star, he plays his best in the LW imo although he's quite good in the center as well. But Mata is better in the center than in the wing - although I've read many of you mentioning he played as a winger in Valencia (I couldn't say because I can't honestly remember three seasons ago from a team I don't even support). I think his stats are impressive and I suppose (not sure) most of his goals and assists came from when he was playing centered?

And I favor a healthy and fit Terry over Ivanovic and Cahill.

That's it

[killer1257 3,282]

http://www.footballuser.com/768563/Chelsea

What about a 4-1-4-1 formation?

[BlueWhale 0]

How about 4-5-1? We have a very adaptive squad for it as following:

GK: Cech / Schwarzer

RB: Ivanovic / Azpilicueta

CB: Luiz, Cahill / Terry, Kalas

LB: Cole / Bertrand

DM: Mikel / Essien

CM: Ramires, Oscar / Bruyne, Ginkel, Lampard

WG: Mata, Hazard / Schurrle, Moses

CF: Lukaku / Torres, Demba

[mediator 2,026]

http://www.footballuser.com/768563/Chelsea

What about a 4-1-4-1 formation?

I called that a 4-3-3 btw, or a 4-5-1 if played on counter attack

[Blue Armour 4,165]

http://www.footballuser.com/768563/Chelsea

What about a 4-1-4-1 formation?

4-1-4-1, with just Mikel in front of the defense? No.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

4-3-3 doesn't suit our best player.

Thats the main valid point that prevents us from going all guns blazing to 4-3-3. Mata does thrive as #10 but both Hazard and Oscar plays their best while operating in that role, like, when they we're at Lille and Sao Paolo respectively. Mata can obviously work in the RW with Mourinho opting for the invert winger option. I think players must suit their game while taking the entire team into consideration and not complain(Not saying Mata is complaining)....4-3-3 FTW

[Barbara 15,149]

4-1-4-1, with just Mikel in front of the defense? No.

I agree

I think we need to have a double pivot. We don't have a big name in the position, Mata and Hazard can't defend (and it's likely both will continue to be in the starting XI as nothing else would make sense) so there's no way we can rely on only one player protecting the defense, otherwise we may have an even worse year on defense stats.

The best option for me as of now is Ramires + Mikel. We don't know where Lampard and Essien will be physically during the season, so those two [Ramikel] (what? I'm lazy) even if very deficient on their passing, would continue to give their contributions in the defensive aspect.

If we play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 we will still have 4 other more advanced guys among Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Kevin, Schürrle and the strikers. Those guys (except the strikers ) are quality in the attack. If Oscar is in the midfield, one position ahead of the double-pivot he can add quality to the passing that Ramires and Mikel lack (reason why 4-3-3 is my fave). If Oscar leaves the team, then more than ever we need two guys in the DM because Mata and Hazard will add very little (if any) contribution to tackling stats. I don't know André that well to say how much he does it and Torres only knows how to foul opponents when he's pissed they tackled the ball from him. Ba works harder, but doesn't have much better results... I don't know Lukaku work rate and his tackling stats.

Also based in what Mourinho said yesterday about David Luiz, I think he'll try to make Luiz work more and more on his passing (long-pass) and he did some amazing long passes for Brazil last month in CC - all while playing as a CB, not a DM. So if Luiz can make those longer passes more often and complete successfully a few of them for match, if Oscar plays a bit deeper (as the most advanced guy in the 4-3-3 we can also make up for Ramires and Mikel complete inability to treat the ball kindly, but we can count on their consistent and exhausting tackling, interventions, pressure, etc...

Of course I still think we needed a world class guy to play in the double-pivot, but it seems this guy won't come and if we add Oscar and Luiz like that I think our midfield could be consistent through and through. I have no doubts Luiz will develop a lot under Mourinho and will become a stronger defender and will rely more on his long pass instead of his advances to the attack.

Thats the main valid point that prevents us from going all guns blazing to 4-3-3. Mata does thrive as #10 but both Hazard and Oscar plays their best while operating in that role, like, when they we're at Lille and Sao Paolo respectively. Mata can obviously work in the RW with Mourinho opting for the invert winger option. I think players must suit their game while taking the entire team into consideration and not complain(Not saying Mata is complaining)....4-3-3 FTW

I agree. As a squad I think 4-3-3 suits us better, regardless if it suits Mata or Hazard or Oscar better. We have deficiencies in the midfield and in the attack, we have to populate those zones to try to make up for the problems we have. Not ideal, nor what I would have preferred, but it seems to me the best option.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

I agree

I think we need to have a double pivot. We don't have a big name in the position, Mata and Hazard can't defend (and it's likely both will continue to be in the starting XI as nothing else would make sense) so there's no way we can rely on only one player protecting the defense, otherwise we may have an even worse year on defense stats.

The best option for me as of now is Ramires + Mikel. We don't know where Lampard and Essien will be physically during the season, so those two (Ramikel - what? I'm lazy) even if very deficient on their passing, would continue to give their contributions in the defensive aspect.

If we play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 we might 4 other more advanced guys among Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Kevin, Schürrle and the strikers. Those guys (except the strikers ) are quality in the attack. If Oscar is in the midfield, one position ahead of the double-pivot he can add quality to the passing that Ramires and Mikel lack (reason why 4-3-3 is my fave). If Oscar leaves the team, then more than ever we need two guys in the DM because Mata and Hazard will add very little (if any) contribution to tackling stats. I don't know André that well to say how much he does it and Torres only knows how to foul opponents when he's pissed they tackled the ball from him. Ba works harder, but doesn't have much better results... I don't know Lukaku work rate and his tackling stats.

Also based in what Mourinho said yesterday about David Luiz, I think he'll try to make Luiz work more and more on his passing (long-pass) and he did some amazing long passes for Brazil last month in CC - all while playing as a CB, not a DM. So if Luiz can make those longer passes more often and complete successfully a few of them for match, if Oscar plays a bit deeper (as the most advanced guy in the 4-3-3 we can also make up for Ramires and Mikel complete inability to treat the ball kindly, but we can count on their consistent and exhausting tackling, interventions, pressure, etc...

Of course I still think we needed a world class guy to play in the double-pivot, but it seems this guy won't come and if we add Oscar and Luiz like that I think out midfield could be consistent through and through. I have no doubts Luiz will develop a lot under Mourinho and will become a stronger defender and will rely more on his long pass instead of his advances to the attack.

I agree. As a squad I think 4-3-3 suits us better, regardless if it suits Mata or Hazard or Oscar better. We have deficiencies in the midfield and in the attack, we have to populate those zones to try to make up for the problems we have. Not ideal, nor what I would have preferred, but it seems to me the best option.

Imagine the likes of Rooney and de Rossi in our 4-3-3 next season, let alone any formation. We can crush any team

[Barbara 15,149]

Imagine the likes of Rooney and de Rossi in our 4-3-3 next season, let alone any formation. We can crush any team

with someone like de Rossi I think we could have only one man ahead of the defense IF Oscar is part of the midfield. So Oscar could play in the 4-2-3-1 very close to the 3 guys. That way we could have three AM in the '3' (Mata, Hazard and Schürrle or Mata, Hazard and Kevin) and another striker.

Which makes me realize the DM is much more deficient than I first gave credit for. If we have someone strong, fairly decent passing and also with great stats and results in the position (our options alternate those traits between themselves), we could 'release' the second defensive midfield to go ahead more often - which is why I think Oscar could play here as he wouldn't have to be so far from the box (letting him be too deep would really be a waste).

Let's see if Mourinho finds some DM and FW on his searches. I'm not Rooney biggest fan, so I'm not looking forward to his transfer. I think he has potential to be Torres 2.0 although I rate Rooney (on his best) better than Torres (on his best). Thing is both are from their bests and I'm not sure Rooney would take the turnaround Torres didn't.

[Magic Lamps 11,449]

4-1-4-1, with just Mikel in front of the defense? No.

We could play that with de Rossi as only DM...Maan that would be amazing.

Thats the main valid point that prevents us from going all guns blazing to 4-3-3. Mata does thrive as #10 but both Hazard and Oscar plays their best while operating in that role, like, when they we're at Lille and Sao Paolo respectively. Mata can obviously work in the RW with Mourinho opting for the invert winger option. I think players must suit their game while taking the entire team into consideration and not complain(Not saying Mata is complaining)....4-3-3 FTW

I think Hazard is best at LW. As he is our best player, that criteria is indifferent to the question of formation.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

We could play that with de Rossi as only DM...Maan that would be amazing.

I think Hazard is best at LW. As he is our best player, that criteria is indifferent to the question of formation.

You're absolutely right on the first part but i think Mata was our best player last season even though Hazard has got a lot more flair

[SeB 1,281]

We could play that with de Rossi as only DM...Maan that would be amazing.

You should watch Argentina's campaign at the 2010 WC, 5 attackers and a defensive midfielder. No surprise they were crashed by Germany in quarter finals

[SeB 1,281]

Also based in what Mourinho said yesterday about David Luiz, I think he'll try to make Luiz work more and more on his passing (long-pass) and he did some amazing long passes for Brazil last month in CC - all while playing as a CB, not a DM. So if Luiz can make those longer passes more often and complete successfully a few of them for match

I don't think Luiz's long play is the actuall issue when some of his passes leaves the field. He's a terrific delivery with both feet. The main issue is that there was no proper runs on a regular basis to pass the ball that way, mainly because our attackers prefer to get the ball on their feet. Torres or Mata could run into space, but not often enough

We have options with Moses, Schürrle (even Bertrand)... that allows us to play more direct in the channels because they do actual runs in behind.

That's a similar conclusion to Ivanovic's apparent waste in his long play, that's because there's no runs nor obvious target for such an approach.

[SeB 1,281]

I though about that team to start the season.

I think it will become even more obvious about why Mourinho wants so much Rooney, he already has explained why he wants someone to link up and score (one of the reasons why I though Lewandowski would be an astute signing).

So that's 4231, 433, call it whatever you want. What's important though would be that there is a shape of three genuine midfielders sweeping in behind three attackers.

Full backs' contribution is crucial, Cole and Azpilicueta can create chances for fun and the last couple of seasons showed they could even do so without proper options to link up in their channel.

Mikel as the deepest of the two midfielers, alongside Ramires. Oscar as the most advanced midfielder, that wouldn't prevent him to act as required in the left side of the pitch

A front three with Mata on the right that could get into the central zone being untracked by his direct opponent (wether left back, DM...). Hazard would be used as a wide forward having really improved his off the ball movements, runs into space in instance. He's probably one of the best finishers in Europe.

Rooney as "false 9/real 9". Could drop to link up, setting up crosses as well as converting those crosses into the box.

In defensive transitions, I'd expect Mata and Hazard to block the center of the field to force the opponent to pass the ball toward the channels in order to create 2v2 in wide zones (Azpilicueta+Ramires vs full back/winger). Mikel to step back toward the edge of the penalty area alongside either Ramires or Oscar (the one that wasn't part of the 2vs2 in wide areas).

We could then get protection and recover the ball quickly without being forced to ask Hazard and Mata specific kind of defensive work (runs up and down) they aren't able to do for the sake of their attacking sharpness.