Best Formation for current Chelsea Squad?

[Wiillowhobo 28]

If you play Mata as the AM in a 4-3-3 then its exactly the same as a 4-2-3-1.

Put it this way. If i was to say lets play 4-2-3-1 with this:

Oscar Ramires

KDB Mata Hazard

Whoever

Then i would get laughed off from people saying, that we have no defence, and would get raped on the counter.

So what difference is it if you play:

Oscar Ramires

Mata

KDB Whoever Hazard

None, as mata would play the exact same role currently as those formations are pretty much the same thing.

Whatever formation we play, we will need a defensive minded midfielder in there.

I feel the same way about that. I'm glad I finally found someone . Sometimes it's like a competition to put the most numbers in a definition of a formation (4-3-2-1, 4-1-2-1-2, 4-2-3-1,...just draw it out ffs, that would make things clear). Anyway, for me those numbers define the formation when the team has the ball (and even then it's all about fluidity). When not in possession, it can change, depending on how the opponent plays and the instructions you get (e.g. 10 falls back to central midfield, fullbacks give cover more upfield, wingers track back really far,...)

[nadavTKL 1,787]

because KDB and Oscar are both not too experience right now to play in the pivot, what about get back to a 4:3:3, for a start at least?

---De Rossi/x----

Oscar-----KDB----

Mata-----Hazard

----Cavani/x-----

Only problem is Mata not playing in the middle consistently.

[GhanaBoy 104]

because KDB and Oscar are both not too experience right now to play in the pivot, what about get back to a 4:3:3, for a start at least?

---De Rossi/x----

Oscar-----KDB----

Mata-----Hazard

----Cavani/x-----

Only problem is Mata not playing in the middle consistently.

and so. mata is a floater , and he is not our best player, Hazard is

because KDB and Oscar are both not too experience right now to play in the pivot, what about get back to a 4:3:3, for a start at least?

---De Rossi/x----

Oscar-----KDB----

Mata-----Hazard

----Cavani/x-----

Only problem is Mata not playing in the middle consistently.

.

because KDB and Oscar are both not too experience right now to play in the pivot, what about get back to a 4:3:3, for a start at least?

---De Rossi/x----

Oscar-----KDB----

Mata-----Hazard

----Cavani/x-----

Only problem is Mata not playing in the middle consistently.

because KDB and Oscar are both not too experience right now to play in the pivot, what about get back to a 4:3:3, for a start at least?

---De Rossi/x----

Oscar-----KDB----

Mata-----Hazard

----Cavani/x-----

Only problem is Mata not playing in the middle consistently.

AND SO. hazard is our best player, and we are Chelsea, if we are going to keep a formation on the notion that it benefits a single player in our side ( simply because he cant defend) then we are in trouble.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

Cech

Azpi - Iva - Terry - Cole

Luiz

Ramires - Oscar

Mata----------------------Hazard

Lukaku

[Marvin123 483]

any thoughts on a 4-4-1-1?

Cech

Azpo-----Luiz----Terry----Cole

------------------------------------

Schurlle-Ramires-Oscar-Hazard

----------------Mata-----------------

---------------Lukaku--------------

obviously with ramires and osca rhaving defensive duties alternatively,making runs forth and such

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Let me put my two cents here.

I really doubt Mourinho wont play a 4-2-3-1.

After the disastrous job he did with the Madrid midfield i hope he learned enough not to do the same mistakes in Chelsea.

Mourinho has such a great selection of players with Oscar, Mata, and Hazard, it will be very hard to fail if he makes the right moves.

One of the biggest problems with his formation of The madrid squad was that for the 3 years he didnt look for a proper right full back.

Arbeloa when good, was only good at defending and helped make the right side obsolete, while Ramos was meh at everything as RB.

On the left side, when on form, Marcelo was amazingly important, but the midfield was so bullshit, and ronaldo refused to track back so we were left looking real bad on both sides of the pitch.

It amazes me that he would go with the same double pivot for 3 years. Alonso was too immobile to be partnered with someone as immobile as Khedira. Someone like Ramires next to him, or now paulinho would have been better. If anything, a double pivot was always going to be dangerous with alonso's mobility, mourinho should have played a different formation, or a far superior partner than khedira.

Mourinho never fixed these problems.

The last problem was Ozil which doesnt have the stamina, or the work rate, or the resources to link up in the middle as well as someone like Isco now will for Madrid. Thats why Ozil should and probably will be put at the right flank.

So the .

. .

.

Of Khedira, Alonso, Ozil, was a disgrace.

Lets look at chelsea now.

With guys like Essien and Ramires, Mourinho has a DM styled player who is on his way out but can probably still give 1 or 2 more good years, while A good ramires could do a good job as his box to box player.

If mourinho doesnt find ramires to be apt in the defending side of the game, he could go for someone like luiz gustavo or paulinho as B2B players. But he would ideally team them up with a player that can hold him self defensively in the midfield as well such as the great spanish talent, Illaramendi.

That is the type of player chelsea should look for. Someone like thiago or modric would be irrelevant with such a player.

For them to work, they would need a DM. If Mourinho wants to go that way he would get a player like modric or thiago, but 90 percent sure he will get none of them. No way in hell, so who could he get?

Can you think of a similar talented player who can deliver?

None of the juventus midfielders would be available. Lets get serious here.

I wont scout what midfielders are availbe atm as i dont see many off the bat but there are the basics on the double pivot.

B2B and DLP/CDM

or

DM CM

I say he goes with the top choice. Thats what he tried in madrid but he didnt pick correctly. Khedira is far too immobile, and so is Alonso. He would have needed better partner, and or a better formation.

For the player infront of them he needs someone who can track back and help deep with ball retention. Ozil couldnt do that well enough.

Juan Mata isnt known for this either.

Can he get Oscar to be able to play an ACM role ala Iniesta/Isco? He will have to imo.

He also needs good work rate in his attackers and midfielders because cole is getting older and Azpilicueta is not the best rb out there in any regards. If he attacks he will need cover.

He will also need to purchase a better cb with good passing skills. Specially if he goes for A cm, so that the cb can spray balls from the back. Someone a CDM would do perfectly.

With Juan Mata's and Oscar's dubious work rate in place, he will need his front 3 to work as hard as possible. But i dont see it getting as bad as in madrid.

Coentrao should stay in madrid one more year while marcelo gets back on top. iF marcelo isnt on top, madrid cant afford to let go of someone like coentrao. Madrid need to know they can trust marcelo. Other wise id get coentrao for the future and present of chelsea.

He needs good work rate from everyone.

I dont see chelsea above P3 this year in the premier league. Behind city and united.

By next season this could be a good lineup.

Cech

Azpilicueta Luiz Hummels Coentrao

Ramires Illaramendi

Mata Oscar Hazard

Cavani

Id get more into the striker, considering you dont have ronaldo i see that a striker will be more important than it was for madrid. Cavani could be a supreme reference point. So could lewandowski but hes going to bayern.

That squad would be above what mourinho was able to produce in madrid. in 2 years atleast.

EDIT: Also you could go with a midfield of TWO CDMS such as...

Sven Bender and Illaramendi, but you would not see them go up towards the pitch too much though, it would be a very adequate and improved version of what mourinho tried in madrid to an extent.

You would need a VERY good link up ACM like Isco in there.

Mourinho needs oscar to be that role, and to improve on things like stamina and work rate. As does Mata.

Bender Illaramendi

Oscar

Mata Hazard

Cavani

Ideally you want a forward to lead the line and have great speed and aerial ability.

Haven't seen jovetic at all, but based on what ive heard, he could be good.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

Let me put my two cents here.

I really doubt Mourinho wont play a 4-2-3-1.

After the disastrous job he did with the Madrid midfield i hope he learned enough not to do the same mistakes in Chelsea.

Mourinho has such a great selection of players with Oscar, Mata, and Hazard, it will be very hard to fail if he makes the right moves.

One of the biggest problems with his formation of The madrid squad was that for the 3 years he didnt look for a proper right full back.

Arbeloa when good, was only good at defending and helped make the right side obsolete, while Ramos was meh at everything as RB.

On the left side, when on form, Marcelo was amazingly important, but the midfield was so bullshit, and ronaldo refused to track back so we were left looking real bad on both sides of the pitch.

It amazes me that he would go with the same double pivot for 3 years. Alonso was too immobile to be partnered with someone as immobile as Khedira. Someone like Ramires next to him, or now paulinho would have been better. If anything, a double pivot was always going to be dangerous with alonso's mobility, mourinho should have played a different formation, or a far superior partner than khedira.

Mourinho never fixed these problems.

The last problem was Ozil which doesnt have the stamina, or the work rate, or the resources to link up in the middle as well as someone like Isco now will for Madrid. Thats why Ozil should and probably will be put at the right flank.

So the .

. .

.

Of Khedira, Alonso, Ozil, was a disgrace.

Lets look at chelsea now.

With guys like Essien and Ramires, Mourinho has a DM styled player who is on his way out but can probably still give 1 or 2 more good years, while A good ramires could do a good job as his box to box player.

If mourinho doesnt find ramires to be apt in the defending side of the game, he could go for someone like luiz gustavo or paulinho as B2B players. But he would ideally team them up with a player that can hold him self defensively in the midfield as well such as the great spanish talent, Illaramendi.

That is the type of player chelsea should look for. Someone like thiago or modric would be irrelevant with such a player.

For them to work, they would need a DM. If Mourinho wants to go that way he would get a player like modric or thiago, but 90 percent sure he will get none of them. No way in hell, so who could he get?

Can you think of a similar talented player who can deliver?

None of the juventus midfielders would be available. Lets get serious here.

I wont scout what midfielders are availbe atm as i dont see many off the bat but there are the basics on the double pivot.

B2B and DLP/CDM

or

DM CM

I say he goes with the top choice. Thats what he tried in madrid but he didnt pick correctly. Khedira is far too immobile, and so is Alonso. He would have needed better partner, and or a better formation.

For the player infront of them he needs someone who can track back and help deep with ball retention. Ozil couldnt do that well enough.

Juan Mata isnt known for this either.

Can he get Oscar to be able to play an ACM role ala Iniesta/Isco? He will have to imo.

He also needs good work rate in his attackers and midfielders because cole is getting older and Azpilicueta is not the best rb out there in any regards. If he attacks he will need cover.

He will also need to purchase a better cb with good passing skills. Specially if he goes for A cm, so that the cb can spray balls from the back. Someone a CDM would do perfectly.

With Juan Mata's and Oscar's dubious work rate in place, he will need his front 3 to work as hard as possible. But i dont see it getting as bad as in madrid.

Coentrao should stay in madrid one more year while marcelo gets back on top. iF marcelo isnt on top, madrid cant afford to let go of someone like coentrao. Madrid need to know they can trust marcelo. Other wise id get coentrao for the future and present of chelsea.

He needs good work rate from everyone.

I dont see chelsea above P3 this year in the premier league. Behind city and united.

By next season this could be a good lineup.

Cech

Azpilicueta Luiz Hummels Coentrao

Ramires Illaramendi

Mata Oscar Hazard

Cavani

Id get more into the striker, considering you dont have ronaldo i see that a striker will be more important than it was for madrid. Cavani could be a supreme reference point. So could lewandowski but hes going to bayern.

That squad would be above what mourinho was able to produce in madrid. in 2 years atleast.

EDIT: Also you could go with a midfield of TWO CDMS such as...

Sven Bender and Illaramendi, but you would not see them go up towards the pitch too much though, it would be a very adequate and improved version of what mourinho tried in madrid to an extent.

You would need a VERY good link up ACM like Isco in there.

Mourinho needs oscar to be that role, and to improve on things like stamina and work rate. As does Mata.

Bender Illaramendi

Oscar

Mata Hazard

Cavani

Ideally you want a forward to lead the line and have great speed and aerial ability.

Haven't seen jovetic at all, but based on what ive heard, he could be good.

Oscar is our best option as #10 as he roams about, drops deep and links the play, just Mata has a better final ball than him right now. Oscar's work rate is superb, must be the most hard working #10 in the EPL imo. The only thing is about Mata playing out wide is he isn't really pacey and he doesn't work back on the wing as was proven under AVB in 2011-12.

I'd say Chelsea have got their ball playing center back in the shape of David Luiz so Hummels wouldn't be needed, hes also similar to Luiz as he likes to come out and intercept a lot. We need a CB who reads the game well and sits a bit further back to compliment Luiz.

Also playing two DMs, I think as Johan Cryuff pointed out with Holland is it basically limits your team when they are in possession in that part of the pitch. You need to have someone like Ramires who can cover the ground to get up and support the attack or a Alonso/Verratti/Illarramendi player who can pass the ball and make things happens from deeper..... or ultimately try Oscar there or even Kevin De Bruyne but I feel its too soon for any of them to be re positioned there.

Benitez managed to get the likes of Hazard and Mata to work back more often so I feel Jose could get it from them too and also we have Moses/De Bruyne who both do adequate defensive work in my eyes so as a unit under Jose we could be very very good defensively as well as offensively.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

I havent been able to watch much chelsea of 12/13, that is why i cant place definite answers as to whether Oscar can play deeply well enough or if Ramires is good enough to be a B2B defensively.

Thanks for the informations.

Cryuff is right, but this is mourinho we are talking about, he is going to go on the counter so it will be something along the lines i posted.

DM CM

B2B CDM

CDM CDM

Sven Bender and illaramendi or two CDM'S that could do well imo.

Bender is the defending Clog with good pasing, and Illaramendi the Passing piece ( similar to alonso but much more mobile) with defending ability.

In no case would this be as bad as netherlands has been in recent times.

Preferably you need to be able to get Oscar to play VERY well deeper in, or else you WILL lose the battles in the midfield against barcelona, bayern, juventus, and as it seems, also Real Madrid, as one or 2 DM'S or 1 dm and a cdm will join madrid. Someone will join at the very least.

And mata has to get the work rate up there. It doesnt matter if he isnt pacy, it would still serve very well, and much better than what di maria and ozil were able with in madrid.

Moses, De Bryune, and maybe even schurle ( havent seen much of schurle) could be good subs, but Mata Oscar Hazard have to be there for most quality upfront imo.

About Hummels, i mentioned him again, because i wasnt sure of david luiz's passing ability to the fullest.

If he can do that, then you indeed need someone who compliments him.

Preferably you will have a B2B on the right side to help azpilicueta and mata.

That is the most important side of the pitch for chelsea as it is the riskiest.

If he sticks with lampard, essien, ramires, theres no way chelsea are ever getting to second unless the manchesters flop.

Chelsea need midfield purchases!

Also i forgot about veratti...but i wouldnt reccomend him as i think a B2B would go better here, and for that you need a Cm who has good defending ability and Veratii does not have that.

If you look at someone like modric, at least he has some good work rate in him.

Veratti is not at that level to be trusted yet.

[Stingray 9,441]

I havent been able to watch much chelsea of 12/13

Yes. Exactly. Still so very certain of everything.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

I try to be careful with my assertions.

I know enough to be able to make my own calculations.

I dont think im far off the mark, and in the end im good with what i posted.

Id like to see how Lars compares to Sven Bender, sven would be harder to acquire btw.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

I havent been able to watch much chelsea of 12/13, that is why i cant place definite answers as to whether Oscar can play deeply well enough or if Ramires is good enough to be a B2B defensively.

Thanks for the informations.

Cryuff is right, but this is mourinho we are talking about, he is going to go on the counter so it will be something along the lines i posted.

DM CM

B2B CDM

CDM CDM

Sven Bender and illaramendi or two CDM'S that could do well imo.

Bender is the defending Clog with good pasing, and Illaramendi the Passing piece ( similar to alonso but much more mobile) with defending ability.

In no case would this be as bad as netherlands has been in recent times.

Preferably you need to be able to get Oscar to play VERY well deeper in, or else you WILL lose the battles in the midfield against barcelona, bayern, juventus, and as it seems, also Real Madrid, as one or 2 DM'S or 1 dm and a cdm will join madrid. Someone will join at the very least.

And mata has to get the work rate up there. It doesnt matter if he isnt pacy, it would still serve very well, and much better than what di maria and ozil were able with in madrid.

Moses, De Bryune, and maybe even schurle ( havent seen much of schurle) could be good subs, but Mata Oscar Hazard have to be there for most quality upfront imo.

About Hummels, i mentioned him again, because i wasnt sure of david luiz's passing ability to the fullest.

If he can do that, then you indeed need someone who compliments him.

Preferably you will have a B2B on the right side to help azpilicueta and mata.

That is the most important side of the pitch for chelsea as it is the riskiest.

If he sticks with lampard, essien, ramires, theres no way chelsea are ever getting to second unless the manchesters flop.

Chelsea need midfield purchases!

Also i forgot about veratti...but i wouldnt reccomend him as i think a B2B would go better here, and for that you need a Cm who has good defending ability and Veratii does not have that.

If you look at someone like modric, at least he has some good work rate in him.

Veratti is not at that level to be trusted yet.

Totally agree about Chelsea needing MF players. Lampard makes a decent option for rotation but hes very much harder to fit into a 4-2-3-1 as he isn't really an energetic box to box player like Ramires. He likes to attack but often forgets his defensive duties which leaves either Mikel/Ramires/Luiz exposed.

I'd like to see Chelsea look at the likes of Gundogan/Illarramendi/Pjanic/or someone else in that mould to play next to either Mikel/Romeu/De Rossi (if we sign him, which I reckon would be a quality signing) but I'm not sure now with the incoming transfer of Van Ginkel who is very much capable of playing as a 6, 8 or 10. I am certain he won't play as a 10 so perhaps hes going to be our 8 or maybe even our 6 as he done for the Dutch u21s a few times in the u21s championship.

I'd personally love to see a pivot of De Rossi - Gundogan but obtaining both players looks very very very difficult. Also I think we could use a left footer on the left side of our pivot just as we could do with the left side of our CBs to give the team more balance but thats just me.

[Ollie 4,400]

I hope Jose brings back the 4-3-3 with Lampard, Mikel and Essien bossing it and out muscling every cunt going,especially Arsenals weedy cunts.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

I hope Jose brings back the 4-3-3 with Lampard, Mikel and Essien bossing it and out muscling every cunt going,especially Arsenals weedy cunts.

I don't think Lampard and Essien will be regulars next season. Maybe get 15-20 appearances each.

[Ollie 4,400]

Just in games against weak pussies like Arsenal i'd like to see it. I loved it when we brutally out muscled arsenal. The greatest 5 years of my life.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

The chelsea of old had guys like Makalele, Essien, and Lampard in the midfield which were all capable of alot.

Mourinho has been working with the 4-2-3-1 for years now, and considering how little he likes to change formations, i see him going 4-2-3-1 almost all the time.

Id like to bring madrid into this as little as i can but Gundogan is basically Madrid's if barcelona dont let go of thiago, imo.

We will give him assurance in our midfield with alonso 95 percent out of madrid at end of season.

We also have sahin on loan to dortmund, we could work out something with them. Maybe even get both if dortmund are stupid.

And we also have great relations with dortmund. All over credible spanish papers like El Confidencial, that madrid have dibs on gundogan and will get called in case anyone goes for him.

Madrid also going for konodgbia but he is so raw that he might stay at sevilla for one more year, and carlo being the italian that he is might go for someone like de rossi.

Chelsea still have plenty of options.

Dont know about Van Ginkel but he will be needed to be given time.

[Jase 43,479]

any thoughts on a 4-4-1-1?

Cech

Azpo-----Luiz----Terry----Cole

------------------------------------

Schurlle-Ramires-Oscar-Hazard

----------------Mata-----------------

---------------Lukaku--------------

obviously with ramires and osca rhaving defensive duties alternatively,making runs forth and such

That is essentially a 4-2-3-1 because Schurrle and Hazard will be playing further forward to support the frontline and wreak havoc to the opposition. The 4-4-1-1 shape only comes into play if and when we defend and defend with two banks of four.

[Hutcho 8,443]

As stated previously. Technically a 4-3-3 is a 4-2-3-1.

Its about the players in the positions not the formation as there will always be problems whichever formation we pick. 4-2-3-1 seems the least awkward as it utilises the majority of the squad. In an idea world we can play 3 number 10's and not get exploited but that just isn't gonna happen.

Unless we change to a 2 up top system of something more drastic it will be technically similar to what we have at the moment.

It is the mentality and the individual instructions that really changes things not the formation Imo.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Formation will stick at 4-2-3-1 considering the players and mourinho.

The thing here is that with a good enough midfield and a good acm, there could be good variety, question is if mourinho can buy the right pieces, exude the work ethic from mata, oscar, and hazard, and his midfielders, and also tactically do a good job.

With the right purchases i see chelsea going beyond what madrid reached with madrid considering the possible aditions to midfield and attack and defense.

But not in 13/14.