Best Formation for current Chelsea Squad?

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Thank you for the Kind reply Bluefire, it is truly enlightening and refreshing to see such kind reception to different ideas these days.

I have a blog on Real Madrid, maybe you would like it.

http://therealmadridzone.blogspot.com/2013/06/mourinhos-legacy-bringing-mourinho-to.html

That link is a link about my description on Mourinho.

Its a bit harsh but true the way i see, with "logical" back up.

But for sake of keeping peace with many in the forum, i will refrain from talking too negatively about Mourinho's time in Madrid, as i can. It wasnt really good is all i can say and the heavy burden falls on him.

Now about Alonso..

I just wanna say that, as a DLP theres probably not much better than he was during his prime years because there werent and arent much high class DLP's to begin with.

In madrid he served a bit as The DM/DLP/, his role was defend and send balls.

The problem is that he is so IMMOBILE that he gets easily marked. He really is a nuissance if he doesnt have the correct system playing with him and around him. That is why Alonso got destroyed In the Man United Tie, and We got destroyed in the dortmund tie.

Hence in the 2nd leg of the Dortmund tie in the Semi Finals, Modric was played next to alonso since they had to go for broke, and Dortmund had much more to worry about than alonso, while also giving Him more liberty to pass to a capable creative midfielder.

But this wouldnt work day in day out. Not one bit.

Alonso is only getting worst, and with the players Madrid now has and also considering he is out till october with injury and that this is his last year in contract, i see him and khedira to relinquish starter spots in Madrid, and alonso to leave Period.

Options for defensive midfielders are limited for Madrid and it seems that by the end our mid might be..

Kondogbia

Modric Isco.

Or something along the lines.

Bastian is a B2B because he can do a bit of everything but is def different to another B2B like Toure. Hes A B2B CM thats as best as i can describe it.

Good defense and CM quality performance.

Of course, Alonso could make the ball run but remember that he has to help the defense and have ability to move specially when the lines are so distant, and his team is a counter attacking team.

Gundogan would be perfect for madrid for this reason and is rumored to join next season.

Midfield is everything and midfield battles have to be won. If anything Oscar seems to me like he could do the ACM thing at the very least in the middle.

There are alot of things going on with brazil but let me remind you that Oscar plays the whole season with Chelsea, not the same with Brazil.

Not the same cohesion and connection.

Brazil have also looked kinda bad in my opinion. Only neymar has looked dynamic.

The other day they were playing with Paulinho and Luiz Gustavo and Oscar in the number 10 role if im not mistaken.

It wasnt going to end well with two players behind him that are jacks of all trades but masters at none.

It gives a bit of an Image to brazil, and in the end atm i dont think id see them beat spain or germany for example.

[Barbara 15,149]

After a couple of weeks, I think I've got a better idea of what you guys call wingers and what you guys call CAM's who drop a bit to the sides. Also I've watched closer some of Oscar and Eden's vids with their passes, highlights, assists and goals and I admit I was wrong.

My memory sucks and seeing how he was just average in CC (as a traditional #10) - I think due to fatigue more than anything else - I've got the wrong idea.

So I must admit I made a few mistakes in my previous analysis. Oscar and Hazard don't really add width. Hazard adds pace and Oscar depth.

I was mostly confused by a very tired Oscar and my sucking memory (I think he really played an okay CC at most). Then clearing up my confusion about what a ~rested Oscar can produce vs exhausted Oscar, I think Oscar works better as a CAM. I still believe though we should be playing (with the current squad) 4-3-3 instead of 4-2-3-1 because I still think we don't have a DLP (one who is ready anyway) and an outstanding striker - both essential for the formation to work the best.

This is the new idea I've got based on every input I've read recently mainly about Oscar and Schurrle. I'm not adding Ginkel because I don't think he has a place in the starting XI and I'm not adding Torres because I refuse to use him or other guys because as each day passes I believe less and less we'll sign a big forwarder which is quite the depressing prospect.

It seems like Schurrle is better on the left wing, but Hazard is our main player in my opinion and he should play in his best position, and the others should accommodate to that.

I'm not considering Oscar a pivot or a DLP in this formation, just the most advanced player in midfield with tons of freedom to roam around. His tackling, work rate, stamina, interception and defensive skills could make a difference recovering the ball in our opponents field, somewhere between the 2nd 1/3 and the 3rd 1/3. That's where a player like him can make the difference because he can steal the ball and quickly either advance and strike or pass. If we move him to the pivot or just deeper, I think he'll be average. He'll be too far from the box and he isn't defensively good (or strong) enough to play the pivot.

In the future (like much later this season or next season) I can see him taking Mata's position and then I don't know what to do with Mata as he clearly can't play the position I have Oscar in this formation (cause he doesn't tackle much, doesn't have much stamina, is slower, etc...).

Shirley - from what I read - plays the same style as Cristiano Ronaldo which is yet another position I've read, but can't remember the name. He'd be the most advanced striker in this, but he won't be centered. He'd play in the flank and then cutting inside and advancing towards the goal. I don't expect him to assist much - just like Cris doesn't - but to move vertically (and fast) - and just shoot to the goal.

After a very unstable year(s) in our defense zone I think we need both Mikel and Ramires and I can't find a place for Lampard in the starting XI. Mikel is stronger and will definitely do the harder work defending, while Ramires would be the second one to combat the opponents, and then Oscar.

Hazard as I said is the team's star, he plays his best in the LW imo although he's quite good in the center as well. But Mata is better in the center than in the wing - although I've read many of you mentioning he played as a winger in Valencia (I couldn't say because I can't honestly remember three seasons ago from a team I don't even support). I think his stats are impressive and I suppose (not sure) most of his goals and assists came from when he was playing centered?

And I favor a healthy and fit Terry over Ivanovic and Cahill.

That's it

[killer1257 3,282]

http://www.footballuser.com/768563/Chelsea

What about a 4-1-4-1 formation?

[BlueWhale 0]

How about 4-5-1? We have a very adaptive squad for it as following:

GK: Cech / Schwarzer

RB: Ivanovic / Azpilicueta

CB: Luiz, Cahill / Terry, Kalas

LB: Cole / Bertrand

DM: Mikel / Essien

CM: Ramires, Oscar / Bruyne, Ginkel, Lampard

WG: Mata, Hazard / Schurrle, Moses

CF: Lukaku / Torres, Demba

[mediator 2,026]

http://www.footballuser.com/768563/Chelsea

What about a 4-1-4-1 formation?

I called that a 4-3-3 btw, or a 4-5-1 if played on counter attack

[Blue Armour 4,436]

http://www.footballuser.com/768563/Chelsea

What about a 4-1-4-1 formation?

4-1-4-1, with just Mikel in front of the defense? No.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

4-3-3 doesn't suit our best player.

Thats the main valid point that prevents us from going all guns blazing to 4-3-3. Mata does thrive as #10 but both Hazard and Oscar plays their best while operating in that role, like, when they we're at Lille and Sao Paolo respectively. Mata can obviously work in the RW with Mourinho opting for the invert winger option. I think players must suit their game while taking the entire team into consideration and not complain(Not saying Mata is complaining)....4-3-3 FTW

[Barbara 15,149]

4-1-4-1, with just Mikel in front of the defense? No.

I agree

I think we need to have a double pivot. We don't have a big name in the position, Mata and Hazard can't defend (and it's likely both will continue to be in the starting XI as nothing else would make sense) so there's no way we can rely on only one player protecting the defense, otherwise we may have an even worse year on defense stats.

The best option for me as of now is Ramires + Mikel. We don't know where Lampard and Essien will be physically during the season, so those two [Ramikel] (what? I'm lazy) even if very deficient on their passing, would continue to give their contributions in the defensive aspect.

If we play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 we will still have 4 other more advanced guys among Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Kevin, Schürrle and the strikers. Those guys (except the strikers ) are quality in the attack. If Oscar is in the midfield, one position ahead of the double-pivot he can add quality to the passing that Ramires and Mikel lack (reason why 4-3-3 is my fave). If Oscar leaves the team, then more than ever we need two guys in the DM because Mata and Hazard will add very little (if any) contribution to tackling stats. I don't know André that well to say how much he does it and Torres only knows how to foul opponents when he's pissed they tackled the ball from him. Ba works harder, but doesn't have much better results... I don't know Lukaku work rate and his tackling stats.

Also based in what Mourinho said yesterday about David Luiz, I think he'll try to make Luiz work more and more on his passing (long-pass) and he did some amazing long passes for Brazil last month in CC - all while playing as a CB, not a DM. So if Luiz can make those longer passes more often and complete successfully a few of them for match, if Oscar plays a bit deeper (as the most advanced guy in the 4-3-3 we can also make up for Ramires and Mikel complete inability to treat the ball kindly, but we can count on their consistent and exhausting tackling, interventions, pressure, etc...

Of course I still think we needed a world class guy to play in the double-pivot, but it seems this guy won't come and if we add Oscar and Luiz like that I think our midfield could be consistent through and through. I have no doubts Luiz will develop a lot under Mourinho and will become a stronger defender and will rely more on his long pass instead of his advances to the attack.

Thats the main valid point that prevents us from going all guns blazing to 4-3-3. Mata does thrive as #10 but both Hazard and Oscar plays their best while operating in that role, like, when they we're at Lille and Sao Paolo respectively. Mata can obviously work in the RW with Mourinho opting for the invert winger option. I think players must suit their game while taking the entire team into consideration and not complain(Not saying Mata is complaining)....4-3-3 FTW

I agree. As a squad I think 4-3-3 suits us better, regardless if it suits Mata or Hazard or Oscar better. We have deficiencies in the midfield and in the attack, we have to populate those zones to try to make up for the problems we have. Not ideal, nor what I would have preferred, but it seems to me the best option.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

I agree

I think we need to have a double pivot. We don't have a big name in the position, Mata and Hazard can't defend (and it's likely both will continue to be in the starting XI as nothing else would make sense) so there's no way we can rely on only one player protecting the defense, otherwise we may have an even worse year on defense stats.

The best option for me as of now is Ramires + Mikel. We don't know where Lampard and Essien will be physically during the season, so those two (Ramikel - what? I'm lazy) even if very deficient on their passing, would continue to give their contributions in the defensive aspect.

If we play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 we might 4 other more advanced guys among Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Kevin, Schürrle and the strikers. Those guys (except the strikers ) are quality in the attack. If Oscar is in the midfield, one position ahead of the double-pivot he can add quality to the passing that Ramires and Mikel lack (reason why 4-3-3 is my fave). If Oscar leaves the team, then more than ever we need two guys in the DM because Mata and Hazard will add very little (if any) contribution to tackling stats. I don't know André that well to say how much he does it and Torres only knows how to foul opponents when he's pissed they tackled the ball from him. Ba works harder, but doesn't have much better results... I don't know Lukaku work rate and his tackling stats.

Also based in what Mourinho said yesterday about David Luiz, I think he'll try to make Luiz work more and more on his passing (long-pass) and he did some amazing long passes for Brazil last month in CC - all while playing as a CB, not a DM. So if Luiz can make those longer passes more often and complete successfully a few of them for match, if Oscar plays a bit deeper (as the most advanced guy in the 4-3-3 we can also make up for Ramires and Mikel complete inability to treat the ball kindly, but we can count on their consistent and exhausting tackling, interventions, pressure, etc...

Of course I still think we needed a world class guy to play in the double-pivot, but it seems this guy won't come and if we add Oscar and Luiz like that I think out midfield could be consistent through and through. I have no doubts Luiz will develop a lot under Mourinho and will become a stronger defender and will rely more on his long pass instead of his advances to the attack.

I agree. As a squad I think 4-3-3 suits us better, regardless if it suits Mata or Hazard or Oscar better. We have deficiencies in the midfield and in the attack, we have to populate those zones to try to make up for the problems we have. Not ideal, nor what I would have preferred, but it seems to me the best option.

Imagine the likes of Rooney and de Rossi in our 4-3-3 next season, let alone any formation. We can crush any team

[Barbara 15,149]

Imagine the likes of Rooney and de Rossi in our 4-3-3 next season, let alone any formation. We can crush any team

with someone like de Rossi I think we could have only one man ahead of the defense IF Oscar is part of the midfield. So Oscar could play in the 4-2-3-1 very close to the 3 guys. That way we could have three AM in the '3' (Mata, Hazard and Schürrle or Mata, Hazard and Kevin) and another striker.

Which makes me realize the DM is much more deficient than I first gave credit for. If we have someone strong, fairly decent passing and also with great stats and results in the position (our options alternate those traits between themselves), we could 'release' the second defensive midfield to go ahead more often - which is why I think Oscar could play here as he wouldn't have to be so far from the box (letting him be too deep would really be a waste).

Let's see if Mourinho finds some DM and FW on his searches. I'm not Rooney biggest fan, so I'm not looking forward to his transfer. I think he has potential to be Torres 2.0 although I rate Rooney (on his best) better than Torres (on his best). Thing is both are from their bests and I'm not sure Rooney would take the turnaround Torres didn't.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

4-1-4-1, with just Mikel in front of the defense? No.

We could play that with de Rossi as only DM...Maan that would be amazing.

Thats the main valid point that prevents us from going all guns blazing to 4-3-3. Mata does thrive as #10 but both Hazard and Oscar plays their best while operating in that role, like, when they we're at Lille and Sao Paolo respectively. Mata can obviously work in the RW with Mourinho opting for the invert winger option. I think players must suit their game while taking the entire team into consideration and not complain(Not saying Mata is complaining)....4-3-3 FTW

I think Hazard is best at LW. As he is our best player, that criteria is indifferent to the question of formation.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

We could play that with de Rossi as only DM...Maan that would be amazing.

I think Hazard is best at LW. As he is our best player, that criteria is indifferent to the question of formation.

You're absolutely right on the first part but i think Mata was our best player last season even though Hazard has got a lot more flair

[SeB 1,281]

We could play that with de Rossi as only DM...Maan that would be amazing.

You should watch Argentina's campaign at the 2010 WC, 5 attackers and a defensive midfielder. No surprise they were crashed by Germany in quarter finals

[SeB 1,281]

Also based in what Mourinho said yesterday about David Luiz, I think he'll try to make Luiz work more and more on his passing (long-pass) and he did some amazing long passes for Brazil last month in CC - all while playing as a CB, not a DM. So if Luiz can make those longer passes more often and complete successfully a few of them for match

I don't think Luiz's long play is the actuall issue when some of his passes leaves the field. He's a terrific delivery with both feet. The main issue is that there was no proper runs on a regular basis to pass the ball that way, mainly because our attackers prefer to get the ball on their feet. Torres or Mata could run into space, but not often enough

We have options with Moses, Schürrle (even Bertrand)... that allows us to play more direct in the channels because they do actual runs in behind.

That's a similar conclusion to Ivanovic's apparent waste in his long play, that's because there's no runs nor obvious target for such an approach.

[SeB 1,281]

I though about that team to start the season.

I think it will become even more obvious about why Mourinho wants so much Rooney, he already has explained why he wants someone to link up and score (one of the reasons why I though Lewandowski would be an astute signing).

So that's 4231, 433, call it whatever you want. What's important though would be that there is a shape of three genuine midfielders sweeping in behind three attackers.

Full backs' contribution is crucial, Cole and Azpilicueta can create chances for fun and the last couple of seasons showed they could even do so without proper options to link up in their channel.

Mikel as the deepest of the two midfielers, alongside Ramires. Oscar as the most advanced midfielder, that wouldn't prevent him to act as required in the left side of the pitch

A front three with Mata on the right that could get into the central zone being untracked by his direct opponent (wether left back, DM...). Hazard would be used as a wide forward having really improved his off the ball movements, runs into space in instance. He's probably one of the best finishers in Europe.

Rooney as "false 9/real 9". Could drop to link up, setting up crosses as well as converting those crosses into the box.

In defensive transitions, I'd expect Mata and Hazard to block the center of the field to force the opponent to pass the ball toward the channels in order to create 2v2 in wide zones (Azpilicueta+Ramires vs full back/winger). Mikel to step back toward the edge of the penalty area alongside either Ramires or Oscar (the one that wasn't part of the 2vs2 in wide areas).

We could then get protection and recover the ball quickly without being forced to ask Hazard and Mata specific kind of defensive work (runs up and down) they aren't able to do for the sake of their attacking sharpness.