Demba Ba

[edenhazard17 281]

This discussion about Torres - Ba could last forever. I prefer to give Lukaku a chance.

[yuvala 2,167]

Ba might be "average" but atleast I can trust in him to perform as a 2nd striker. Its not like with Torres, putting faith in him then cursing him, putting faith in him again ...

[different level 1,056]

I think the people who see Ba as a clearly better striker than Torres are just as deluded as those who are ready to jump in the Spaniard's defense at any cost. I wouldn't like to put myself into any of those extremes, but as someone stated above a Torres return to form is more believable than Ba becoming anything more than a squad player for us.

It actually isn't only against Man United, but also against Stoke(A), West Ham(H) for example.

Saying his general play was good in this match is quite a positive thinking considering his finishing was horrendous and he squandered 4 or 5 chances with only the keeper to beat.

[Jase 43,479]

I think the people who see Ba as a clearly better striker than Torres are just as deluded as those who are ready to jump in the Spaniard's defense at any cost. I wouldn't like to put myself into any of those extremes, but as someone stated above a Torres return to form is more believable than Ba becoming anything more than a squad player for us.

Why? That sounds like a comment made based on past reputation as opposed to who can actually give more in terms of the two. Think most would rather believe in Ba who can still perform decently enough and give him some chance than continuing to have blind faith and hope Torres will get anywhere near his best after 2 1/2 years of rubbishness!

Saying his general play was good in this match is quite a positive thinking considering his finishing was horrendous and he squandered 4 or 5 chances with only the keeper to beat.

Did you actually even read the full post of that before taking my point out of context?

It actually isn't only against Man United, but also against Stoke(A), West Ham(H) for example. Yes, no doubt he should have scored more goals from those chances that he squandered but in those games, as Tomo has alluded to, Ba actually offers better off the ball movement by constantly making runs in behind the opposition's defence. This doesn't just only help provide threats to them but also pushes the opposition back and in turn, open up spaces between the lines and midfield for us to cause more damage. With Torres, you won't see that happening considering he's a statue upfront and he expects people to play the ball into his feet without making much effort to receive it. We hardly saw Torres made such runs last season and Ba basically trumped him in that aspect in just 5 months.

I acknowledged that he should have scored more goals from the chances he has missed but I actually also pointed out the good thing he did to even get in those positions in the place, unlike Torres.

[different level 1,056]

Why? That sounds like a comment made based on past reputation as opposed to who can actually give more in terms of the two. Think most would rather believe in Ba who can still perform decently enough and give him some chance than continuing to have blind faith and hope Torres will get anywhere near his best after 2 1/2 years of rubbishness!

Actually that's partly the case. You know Torres has (or has had) the potential that Ba (with all due respect) will never have. You praise Ba for his the way he moves off the ball and the great runs he makes occasionally, but they are not that often as you make it look like. Torres has had his good games too with his fair share of contribution to our EL victory.

Did you actually even read the full post of that before taking my point out of context?

I just don't think that showing some good movement excuses his poor finishing, that's why I said that match wasn't the best example of good general play.

[Fernando 6,453]

When Ba scores, he does not goes to the cameras and talks crap.

When Torres scores, he goes to the press and acts like he's all that.

For the team and how Mourinho is, Ba is better choice then Torres.

Torres another prima dona that requires a lot of attention.

Don't want that and don't need that no more in the team.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

It actually isn't only against Man United, but also against Stoke(A), West Ham(H) for example. Yes, no doubt he should have scored more goals from those chances that he squandered but in those games, as Tomo has alluded to, Ba actually offers better off the ball movement by constantly making runs in behind the opposition's defence. This doesn't just only help provide threats to them but also pushes the opposition back and in turn, open up spaces between the lines and midfield for us to cause more damage. With Torres, you won't see that happening considering he's a statue upfront and he expects people to play the ball into his feet without making much effort to receive it. We hardly saw Torres made such runs last season and Ba basically trumped him in that aspect in just 5 months.

Except you're saying "for example" and using pretty much all his good games. Over the course of the Premier League season, he has 2 goals and 0 assists in 14 games with us. That's awful. Yes, his movement, at times, was better than Torres, but Torres was better at drawing away defenders wide (which also opens up space), at crossing the ball, at playing through balls, etc...I have been one of Torres harshest critics on here and still am convinced that he's not good enough for Chelsea, but he was actually overall better than Ba was with us last season.

[bluesman2610 1,341]

To be fair to Ba though he was only here for half a season and due to rotation didn't get a run in the team to really find form like he had while playing at NUFC.. would be a little disappointed if we let him go cause he did show glimpses of a top PL striker while with us and clearly did while at newcastle

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

This guy deserves the chance to be a second striker and should not be forced out.

[robsblubot 3,502]

This guy deserves the chance to be a second striker and should not be forced out.

Regardless whether we think he deserves a chance or not, personally I've seen enough, what you suggest would put Lukaku as a 3rd striker. After the season he's had as a 2nd striker, I feel Lukaku is the one who deserves that chance this season.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

Regardless whether we think he deserves a chance or not, personally I've seen enough, what you suggest would put Lukaku as a 3rd striker. After the season he's had as a 2nd striker, I feel Lukaku is the one who deserves that chance this season.

The thing is that with Torres staying we'll either have to keep Ba as a possible 3rd striker or sell him and go for some proven striker as Jose can't risk his chances with the Spaniard.It would be very simple if we sold Torres but since that is not a serious option we must adjust.Lukaku will not be given the title of a second striker as there will be 3 top players for that sole position.Depending on whom we bring this summer and by all the striker's performances,the role will be decided.Lukaku could well be our main striker also if he does well or also in worst case be 3rd.

[Jase 43,479]

Actually that's partly the case. You know Torres has (or has had) the potential that Ba (with all due respect) will never have. You praise Ba for his the way he moves off the ball and the great runs he makes occasionally, but they are not that often as you make it look like. Torres has had his good games too with his fair share of contribution to our EL victory.

So what if Torres has showed the potential or that world class before? We have been waiting 2 1/2 years for him to even get anywhere it and hardly saw anything of it! Said previously, Ba was never a world class player yes but he was effective in what he does and he didn't suddenly just become a bad player after joining us. Under Mourinho next season, he would fit in nicely as the 2nd/3rd choice ST especially when he's not yet a 'finished' striker like someone.

As for praising Ba's movement, I only pointed out what I saw from him in the games he played. Didn't even try to pretend and make it like it's out of this world. Can't be helped if people can't see it, choose to ignore it etc.

I just don't think that showing some good movement excuses his poor finishing, that's why I said that match wasn't the best example of good general play.

Since when I was making excuses for Ba's poor finishing with his good movement?! All I did was comparing the aspects of play (the goals aside) that I see from Ba and Torres and stating the former's one is better!

Except you're saying "for example" and using pretty much all his good games. Over the course of the Premier League season, he has 2 goals and 0 assists in 14 games with us. That's awful. Yes, his movement, at times, was better than Torres, but Torres was better at drawing away defenders wide (which also opens up space), at crossing the ball, at playing through balls, etc...

Yes, those were his better games but let's not make it as if all his other games were horribly bad. And no doubt his goal return wasn't great but had he buried those many chances he got, we would all be speaking of Ba differently right now...

I have been one of Torres harshest critics on here and still am convinced that he's not good enough for Chelsea, but he was actually overall better than Ba was with us last season.

Not exactly fair to judge and compare two players' season like that when one had a full season while the other only had 5 months with us.

[Jarbles 4]

You can't let a player to after just six months, it's not easy coming in to a team mid way through a season let him have a full season to see if he can get back to the from he had at Newcastle.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

The thing is that with Torres staying we'll either have to keep Ba as a possible 3rd striker or sell him and go for some proven striker as Jose can't risk his chances with the Spaniard.It would be very simple if we sold Torres but since that is not a serious option we must adjust.Lukaku will not be given the title of a second striker as there will be 3 top players for that sole position.Depending on whom we bring this summer and by all the striker's performances,the role will be decided.Lukaku could well be our main striker also if he does well or also in worst case be 3rd.

1. 1st choice - Lukaku. Sky-high potential here. Considerable strength, but also surprising pace and acceleration. Dominant in the air, and effective at hold-up. Relatively good finisher, good goal instincts, and clearly incredibly confident. Deserves his chance after 17 goals in a mid-table team such as West Brom where, let us not forget, he was heavily rotated. His minutes-to-goals ratio was phenomenal; I think in the league only van Persie was more frequently putting the ball in the net.
2. 2nd/3rd choice - Demba Ba. Experienced, with little chance of further progression at his age. However, like Lukaku, he is very strong, but he is less direct that Lukaku. He is better at holding the ball up and a slightly better finisher. Also, very good in the air. A perfect option to throw in with 20 minutes left against tiring defenders. He has barely any pace, but he will enable us to further utilise the long-ball.
3. 2nd/3rd choice - Fernando Torres. An altogether different player to both. Prefers to run on to through-balls than trying to hold it up/turn players. Generally an excellent finisher. Brilliant against low-profile teams.

The fact is, we have three brilliantly different players here. Lukaku has so much room to grow, it really is exciting! Torres and Ba can get the job done. The truth of the matter is Chelsea is a team that barely utilises a striker. Even under Mourinho in 2004-2007, we relied on our midfield to score goals. The same will be true next season - I guarantee that Schurrle, Hazard, Mata, Oscar, and Lampard supply us 60-70 goals between them. You look at our defenders, there is the potential to 10-15 goals there, and the same outlay from our other attacking midfielders (KdB, Moses, etc.) gives us 100 goals, give or take. Then, Ba, Lukaku and Torres can reasonably add, what, 30-45 between the three of them?

Obviously this is only a crude measure, but it shows that probably 60-70% of our goals come from elsewhere. Our style of play almost bypasses our forwards. There is a reason why the likes of Ba and Torres - players who were previously completely dominant before joining us - are average at best, now. Even when Drogba had his two 30+ goals seasons, and the likes of Anelka and Kalou were ably offering 15-20 themselves, they were still only contributing about a quarter of our goals - maybe a third, at a push. That ratio is far lower than teams such as United, for instance. Since Mourinho first came, the centre-forward has been a foil for our other attacking players. That's why your Lampards and your Matas have been so productive.

So, I ask this - do we really need to spend £30-45 million on someone who is barely going to contribute more than our current strikers presently do?

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

1. 1st choice - Lukaku. Sky-high potential here. Considerable strength, but also surprising pace and acceleration. Dominant in the air, and effective at hold-up. Relatively good finisher, good goal instincts, and clearly incredibly confident. Deserves his chance after 17 goals in a mid-table team such as West Brom where, let us not forget, he was heavily rotated. His minutes-to-goals ratio was phenomenal; I think in the league only van Persie was more frequently putting the ball in the net.
2. 2nd/3rd choice - Demba Ba. Experienced, with little chance of further progression at his age. However, like Lukaku, he is very strong, but he is less direct that Lukaku. He is better at holding the ball up and a slightly better finisher. Also, very good in the air. A perfect option to throw in with 20 minutes left against tiring defenders. He has barely any pace, but he will enable us to further utilise the long-ball.
3. 2nd/3rd choice - Fernando Torres. An altogether different player to both. Prefers to run on to through-balls than trying to hold it up/turn players. Generally an excellent finisher. Brilliant against low-profile teams.

The fact is, we have three brilliantly different players here. Lukaku has so much room to grow, it really is exciting! Torres and Ba can get the job done. The truth of the matter is Chelsea is a team that barely utilises a striker. Even under Mourinho in 2004-2007, we relied on our midfield to score goals. The same will be true next season - I guarantee that Schurrle, Hazard, Mata, Oscar, and Lampard supply us 60-70 goals between them. You look at our defenders, there is the potential to 10-15 goals there, and the same outlay from our other attacking midfielders (KdB, Moses, etc.) gives us 100 goals, give or take. Then, Ba, Lukaku and Torres can reasonably add, what, 30-45 between the three of them?

Obviously this is only a crude measure, but it shows that probably 60-70% of our goals come from elsewhere. Our style of play almost bypasses our forwards. There is a reason why the likes of Ba and Torres - players who were previously completely dominant before joining us - are average at best, now. Even when Drogba had his two 30+ goals seasons, and the likes of Anelka and Kalou were ably offering 15-20 themselves, they were still only contributing about a quarter of our goals - maybe a third, at a push. That ratio is far lower than teams such as United, for instance. Since Mourinho first came, the centre-forward has been a foil for our other attacking players. That's why your Lampards and your Matas have been so productive.

So, I ask this - do we really need to spend £30-45 million on someone who is barely going to contribute more than our current strikers presently do?

There is absolutely no need of spending 30m on a striker now as no one available is worth that anymore.Maybe it would be wiser to bring in someone like Zlatan or Klose,players of vast experience who'll be willing to stay for maximum season or two.Such a move wouldn't affect Lukaku's development either and would create a healthy competition amongst the three.

I have nothing against Ba and if the club feel that he should be sold then his replacement shouldn't be a Plan C striker like Soldado,Benteke etc.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

^ I absolutely agree. The sad thing is, I can see the club shitting £25 million on someone like Mario Gomez, just for the sake of him "being available".

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

^ I absolutely agree. The sad thing is, I can see the club shitting £25 million on someone like Mario Gomez, just for the sake of him "being available".

The 3 options we had earlier(Falcao,Cavani and Lewandowski) are not possible anymore.The options now available aren't worth their quoted transfer amount,it would be foolish of us to pay 20m+ just because we wish to have another striker.Perhaps it would be best to keep Ba and try again in the winter transfer window.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

1. 1st choice - Lukaku. Sky-high potential here. Considerable strength, but also surprising pace and acceleration. Dominant in the air, and effective at hold-up. Relatively good finisher, good goal instincts, and clearly incredibly confident. Deserves his chance after 17 goals in a mid-table team such as West Brom where, let us not forget, he was heavily rotated. His minutes-to-goals ratio was phenomenal; I think in the league only van Persie was more frequently putting the ball in the net.
2. 2nd/3rd choice - Demba Ba. Experienced, with little chance of further progression at his age. However, like Lukaku, he is very strong, but he is less direct that Lukaku. He is better at holding the ball up and a slightly better finisher. Also, very good in the air. A perfect option to throw in with 20 minutes left against tiring defenders. He has barely any pace, but he will enable us to further utilise the long-ball.
3. 2nd/3rd choice - Fernando Torres. An altogether different player to both. Prefers to run on to through-balls than trying to hold it up/turn players. Generally an excellent finisher. Brilliant against low-profile teams.

The fact is, we have three brilliantly different players here. Lukaku has so much room to grow, it really is exciting! Torres and Ba can get the job done. The truth of the matter is Chelsea is a team that barely utilises a striker. Even under Mourinho in 2004-2007, we relied on our midfield to score goals. The same will be true next season - I guarantee that Schurrle, Hazard, Mata, Oscar, and Lampard supply us 60-70 goals between them. You look at our defenders, there is the potential to 10-15 goals there, and the same outlay from our other attacking midfielders (KdB, Moses, etc.) gives us 100 goals, give or take. Then, Ba, Lukaku and Torres can reasonably add, what, 30-45 between the three of them?

Obviously this is only a crude measure, but it shows that probably 60-70% of our goals come from elsewhere. Our style of play almost bypasses our forwards. There is a reason why the likes of Ba and Torres - players who were previously completely dominant before joining us - are average at best, now. Even when Drogba had his two 30+ goals seasons, and the likes of Anelka and Kalou were ably offering 15-20 themselves, they were still only contributing about a quarter of our goals - maybe a third, at a push. That ratio is far lower than teams such as United, for instance. Since Mourinho first came, the centre-forward has been a foil for our other attacking players. That's why your Lampards and your Matas have been so productive.

So, I ask this - do we really need to spend £30-45 million on someone who is barely going to contribute more than our current strikers presently do?

Lukaku is nowhere near dominant in the air (yet) and his hold-up play is still not that good. Ba is better on both those accounts. Lukaku plays like Torres. Lukaku/Torres with Ba is a good combo, so Ba should def stay as he is different than both whereas Lukaku and Torres have a very similar playing style, only difference is that Lukaku plays like a man. You don't get anything more or different from Torres instead of Lukaku except better vision, but I rather have a bigger goal threat (Lukaku) instead of that.

It's hard to judge how Lukaku does, but he def has the tools to become a reliable first choice striker this very year. However, it wouldn't be surprising if he struggles with inconsistency. That said, we're def much better in our striker department than last year, but good enough to win the league? Not sure. Hopefully I'm wrong, I can't put anything past a determined Lukaku.