The Benitez Thread

[The only place to be 11,313]

Now this is where I don't understand so many of you constantly going back to the same nonsensical raptures of 'we're not supporting the team if we're not supporting Rafa'

Let me ask you something...

How many times have you actually gone & sat/stood in the crowd at The Bridge?

At a guess, more times than you. If you really want a dick measuring contest, go elsewhere.

You say Rafa isn't part of the team - I disagree. He is the coach now, ergo he is part of the team. That doesn't mean I like him or even enjoy the fact he's at the club.

But the fact is he is at the club and for my club to prosper I need him to do a good job. That's why he has my support, begrudging at is may be.

You say it's ridiculous to think it will affect the morale of the players - I disagree. I've been part of many great crowds at the Bridge (and away) and I've seen and felt the effect it has, kicking the players on into a higher gear. I've also been part of some pretty shit ones where it was so quiet you could hear the players shouting to one another on the pitch from the middle tier. Creating an atmosphere that is pretty toxic isn't going to help them, and it isn't going to help Rafa when he has to get them listening to him in training on a shitty Monday morning.

I've already said I understood why the fans were angry - I was too at first. But I don't see the upside in being negative going forward. The board got the message - the board knew the message way before he was hired but they went forward because they thought it was best for the club.

If people really want to keep booing then that's their prerogative. But at the game on Sunday I wasn't one of them. I sang my heart out for Robbie because he deserved it. But I'm not going to boo our manager when he's trying to get our team to win.

[Yasser 63]

Third case: Chelsea fans booed Abramovich on Sunday.

i don't said booing Abramovich! all what i said is the man who went and display the contract to Rafa is Abramovich!! Rafa as a professional see the contract liked and agree and take it!

[super_frank8 186]

At a guess, more times than you. If you really want a dick measuring contest, go elsewhere.

You say Rafa isn't part of the team - I disagree. He is the coach now, ergo he is part of the team. That doesn't mean I like him or even enjoy the fact he's at the club.

But the fact is he is at the club and for my club to prosper I need him to do a good job. That's why he has my support, begrudging at is may be.

You say it's ridiculous to think it will affect the morale of the players - I disagree. I've been part of many great crowds at the Bridge (and away) and I've seen and felt the effect it has, kicking the players on into a higher gear. I've also been part of some pretty shit ones where it was so quiet you could hear the players shouting to one another on the pitch from the middle tier. Creating an atmosphere that is pretty toxic isn't going to help them, and it isn't going to help Rafa when he has to get them listening to him in training on a shitty Monday morning.

I've already said I understood why the fans were angry - I was too at first. But I don't see the upside in being negative going forward. The board got the message - the board knew the message way before he was hired but they went forward because they thought it was best for the club.

If people really want to keep booing then that's their prerogative. But at the game on Sunday I wasn't one of them. I sang my heart out for Robbie because he deserved it. But I'm not going to boo our manager when he's trying to get our team to win.

I think you rather misinterpreted that rhetorical query that I posed - I was actually attempting to make a point regarding the nature of being in the crowd & the right to express yourself & your beliefs as a fan - as opposed to requesting this 'dick measuring contest' that you speak of. I'm not judging anyone's support purely by whether they attend live matches or not; that is simply ignorant & petty.

However, I do expect those who have been present in the stands, who have learnt the songs, who have ensured that you can hear them cheering for their heroes on the moon & beyond - to actually understand a fan's undefiable urge to let everyone else hear their voice loud & clear so they know just exactly what is on their mind - especially when everyone around them is feeling the exact same thing. That is the kind of unity that gives me that indescribable sense of pride & adoration for the club that I love, as well as the invaluable camaraderie of my fellow supporters around me who comprehend & relate to it on the same level. It's what makes me feel 'at home' - as cheesy as that may sound. Every single person in that stadium on a matchday has the given right to let the joy & jubilation as well as the pain & anguish in their heart be known to the rest of the world.

Therefore making all of those at the game as well as those watching from their living rooms more than aware of their displeasure with the appointment of a fat fuck who does not deserve a single miniscule of respect from anyone who deems themselves 'Chelsea through-&-through' - is 100% justified. Personally what I believe is in fact fully unjustified, is individuals such as yourself declaring that they are not supporting the team purely because they have the integrity to stand up for the club they love. You clearly don't realise that these fans aren't just singing for themselves purely to spite Rafa/Abramovich/for the fun of it; they are singing for the millions of supporters from all corners of the globe that feel exactly the same way & wish more than anything that they could be at the game to join them in making it abundantly clear how much of a mistake this is & how pissed off they are about it - & inflict enough of an influence to catalyse change. Ultimately all in the hope of the possibility of our owner actually acknowledging this & choosing to rectify the situation.

But yes, since you have in fact been part of the crowd at many games both home & away, just as I am sure many of us on this forum have done (dick measuring contest anyone?) - then surely at some point or another you have waved your 'plastic flag' with pride & sung with every single bit of passion that your heart endears you to? By all means correct me if I am misled in my beliefs; but when I say that I'll keep the blue flag flying high, I definitely fucking mean it. Maybe this kind of stuff is completely arbitrary to you, but for fans like me it's not. Not by a long shot.

So when a certain Rafa Benitez decides to call YOU out personally on YOUR support for the club that YOU love - it is not forgiven anywhere near as easily as you seem to be comfortable with doing. & for most of us, it never will be whatsoever - regardless of the results or trophies that he obtains. He does not deserve the honour, nor the prestige, of managing our team; let alone being collectively included as a part of it. That is a title reserved for true legends like Mourinho & Di Matteo - & at the very least good men who have never gone out of their way to directly insult the players or fans or club as he has done in such a gloriously cuntish manner.

& still you continue in failing to recognise the distinction between the manager & the team. When I speak of the team, I am generally broadly speaking about the players (& the club that they represent) - only when a manager reacts to every goal & injustice the exact same way you & the players do - when you can clearly see that he cares about what happens on the field just as much as those around him - is he truly worthy of being recognised as part of the team. & when Benitez is a manager who makes it part of his job to intentionally distance himself from the dressing room & any kind of genuine relationship with the players, he is as far from that as humanly possible.

When Mourinho was manager, when Di Matteo was manager, when Hiddink was manager, when Ancelotti was manager - you could see that the players were playing for them as well as the fans - because they inspired & invested themselves in the team, sharing every bit of joy & heartbreak together as one - & elevated the players as a result of that. They showed that they cared, because they genuinely did; the players knew it & the fans knew it. Jose going absolutely mental in a sequence of sheer jubilation & manic fist pumping before sliding down the touchline on his knees in a 6000 quid Armani suit - you will never see Rafa do that; & there is a reason why.

They aren't playing for him mate, they are playing for us - & if we achieve anything worthwhile this season, it is going to be down to their resolve & their will to win - not because some fat Spanish waiter inspired them to do so.

[Yasser 63]

from the press conference Rafa said : " Now Chelsea is my club, so I have to defend my club "

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

He seems to be saying the right things in the press conferences, from which you can tell he's obsessed with detail, organisation, attitude and commitment. I think i'm at the stage of 'optimistic acceptance' with him now.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I think you rather misinterpreted that rhetorical query that I posed - I was actually attempting to make a point regarding the nature of being in the crowd & the right to express yourself & your beliefs as a fan - as opposed to requesting this 'dick measuring contest' that you speak of. I'm not judging anyone's support purely by whether they attend live matches or not; that is simply ignorant & petty.

However, I do expect those who have been present in the stands, who have learnt the songs, who have ensured that you can hear them cheering for their heroes on the moon & beyond - to actually understand a fan's undefiable urge to let everyone else hear their voice loud & clear so they know just exactly what is on their mind - especially when everyone around them is feeling the exact same thing. That is the kind of unity that gives me that indescribable sense of pride & adoration for the club that I love, as well as the invaluable camaraderie of my fellow supporters around me who comprehend & relate to it on the same level. It's what makes me feel 'at home' - as cheesy as that may sound. Every single person in that stadium on a matchday has the given right to let the joy & jubilation as well as the pain & anguish in their heart be known to the rest of the world.

Therefore making all of those at the game as well as those watching from their living rooms more than aware of their displeasure with the appointment of a fat fuck who does not deserve a single miniscule of respect from anyone who deems themselves 'Chelsea through-&-through' - is 100% justified. Personally what I believe is in fact fully unjustified, is individuals such as yourself declaring that they are not supporting the team purely because they have the integrity to stand up for the club they love. You clearly don't realise that these fans aren't just singing for themselves purely to spite Rafa/Abramovich/for the fun of it; they are singing for the millions of supporters from all corners of the globe that feel exactly the same way & wish more than anything that they could be at the game to join them in making it abundantly clear how much of a mistake this is & how pissed off they are about it - & inflict enough of an influence to catalyse change. Ultimately all in the hope of the possibility of our owner actually acknowledging this & choosing to rectify the situation.

But yes, since you have in fact been part of the crowd at many games both home & away, just as I am sure many of us on this forum have done (dick measuring contest anyone?) - then surely at some point or another you have waved your 'plastic flag' with pride & sung with every single bit of passion that your heart endears you to? By all means correct me if I am misled in my beliefs; but when I say that I'll keep the blue flag flying high, I definitely fucking mean it. Maybe this kind of stuff is completely arbitrary to you, but for fans like me it's not. Not by a long shot.

So when a certain Rafa Benitez decides to call YOU out personally on YOUR support for the club that YOU love - it is not forgiven anywhere near as easily as you seem to be comfortable with doing. & for most of us, it never will be whatsoever - regardless of the results or trophies that he obtains. He does not deserve the honour, nor the prestige, of managing our team; let alone being collectively included as a part of it. That is a title reserved for true legends like Mourinho & Di Matteo - & at the very least good men who have never gone out of their way to directly insult the players or fans or club as he has done in such a gloriously cuntish manner.

& still you continue in failing to recognise the distinction between the manager & the team. When I speak of the team, I am generally broadly speaking about the players (& the club that they represent) - only when a manager reacts to every goal & injustice the exact same way you & the players do - when you can clearly see that he cares about what happens on the field just as much as those around him - is he truly worthy of being recognised as part of the team. & when Benitez is a manager who makes it part of his job to intentionally distance himself from the dressing room & any kind of genuine relationship with the players, he is as far from that as humanly possible.

When Mourinho was manager, when Di Matteo was manager, when Hiddink was manager, when Ancelotti was manager - you could see that the players were playing for them as well as the fans - because they inspired & invested themselves in the team, sharing every bit of joy & heartbreak together as one - & elevated the players as a result of that. They showed that they cared, because they genuinely did; the players knew it & the fans knew it. Jose going absolutely mental in a sequence of sheer jubilation & manic fist pumping before sliding down the touchline on his knees in a 6000 quid Armani suit - you will never see Rafa do that; & there is a reason why.

They aren't playing for him mate, they are playing for us - & if we achieve anything worthwhile this season, it is going to be down to their resolve & their will to win - not because some fat Spanish waiter inspired them to do so.

We all support the team i different ways and have different views on this appointment. I wasn't happy, but I'm past it. Now I just want to see the team put itself in the best position possible for next season, and I believe Benitez will be integral to that.

You bring up the fact that he slagged us off in the past. So fucking what? That was his job, to gain a competitive edge for his team in whatever manner possible and if that meant giving his own fans a hard on by slagging us off then so be it. I can let a few words slide for the sake of getting behind my team and yes, my team's coach. That's what he is.

That shit thing where we appoint Benitez....it happened. It ain't going to change if I boo loud enough. I'd rather sing the songs that I've been singing for the past 20 years in support of my club, home and away rather than booing a guy who for better or worse is going to be one of the deciding factors in the FUTURE of this club.

And here's the little secret that no-one in the media is reporting - not every fan was booing. Not every fan was holding up little signs or banners and not every fan was abusing him at every opportunity. I don't know what you saw on tv, but 40,000 fans weren't chanting abuse for 90 minutes. Sorry to burst your bubble.

And if you think it will force Roman to 'rectify' the situation then you're really in for a disappointment because in his mind appointing Rafa Benitez IS rectifying the situation. But yeah, you hold on to the anger from a manager of another team saying rude things about a competitor. Me, I'm going to support the team in my way and if that isn't the way that a few of the millions of our fans around the world want me to support my team then they can kiss my ass if they every actually make their way to a football match at the Bridge.

[Shane 2,275]

from the press conference Rafa said : " Now Chelsea is my club, so I have to defend my club "

Makes me sick.

[poojam 10]

Who is The Biggest Legend To Chelsea. ''Roberto Di Matteo'' or ''Roman Abramovich'' ?

[Heisenberg 1,824]

Clearly Roman ,but you cant compare a player to an owner.

[Tomo 21,733]

When Mourinho was manager, when Di Matteo was manager, when Hiddink was manager, when Ancelotti was manager - you could see that the players were playing for them as well as the fans - because they inspired & invested themselves in the team, sharing every bit of joy & heartbreak together as one - & elevated the players as a result of that. They showed that they cared, because they genuinely did; the players knew it & the fans knew it. Jose going absolutely mental in a sequence of sheer jubilation & manic fist pumping before sliding down the touchline on his knees in a 6000 quid Armani suit - you will never see Rafa do that; & there is a reason why.

They aren't playing for him mate, they are playing for us - & if we achieve anything worthwhile this season, it is going to be down to their resolve & their will to win - not because some fat Spanish waiter inspired them to do so.

To be fair Benitez has never been a manager for showing his emotions. Not even at Liverpool.

[Sheva. 5,373]

What does celebrating goals have to do with anything anyway? Del Bosque never celebrates, but this doesn't make him less of a manager than anyone, or mean he doesn't care as much as other managers.

[manpe 10,861]

http://www.chelseafc.com/news-article/article/2993754/title/benitez-fine-adjustments

I liked what he said there, especially this:

'The main thing now is to find a balance. Defensively we will continue working and we will improve because normally defence is easier than attack. In attack we have players with talent; we have players with quality, so we have to find this balance. Defending well and giving the ball to the attacking players to create is our main issue now.

'We need to give the freedom to perform and play well but at the same time they have to be organised as a team.

'We were talking for a few days and the owner knows it will take some time to fix everything, but he knows that we can do it.'

[termninja 5,290]

I actually like Rafa's work so far and what he has said. I am not happy seeing Robbie sacked and ex Liverpool manager who spoke bad things about us replacing him, but then again, if I was a manager, I pretty much would slate teams if that would help my team win. Obviously, nothing extreme, but something subtle like Rafa said...

It will be really ugly of some people who say offensive things to him when part of them starts supporting him when (if) things start going our way. For me, he has a clean dossier, and I'll judge him from his day 1 at work. By not giving support without him actually doing anything bad is not something a true fan should do...

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

I think the FSW has been a bit lucky with this appointment, after lying on his chaise longue for 6 months quaffing paella.

The success he did have at Valencia and then Liverpool was based around teams built by other managers and things started going stale as soon as his own players and ideas were instigated. And then, at Inter, he couldn't even get any success out of a team who had just won the Treble.

Going back further,

1995–1996 at Real Valladolid - sacked after 2 wins in 23, with the club bottom of La Liga.

1996 at Osasuna - sacked after 1 win in 9, with the team struggling in the Segunda Divison.

1997–1999 at Extremadura - promoted to La Liga, then relegated after one season.

RDMs record as an up an coming prospect positively shines in comparison, and just highlights how the clowns on the board are clueless

[Sheva. 5,373]

I think the FSW has been a bit lucky with this appointment, after lying on his chaise longue for 6 months quaffing paella.

The success he did have at Valencia and then Liverpool was based around teams built by other managers and things started going stale as soon as his own players and ideas were instigated. And then, at Inter, he couldn't even get any success out of a team who had just won the Treble.

Going back further,

1995–1996 at Real Valladolid - sacked after 2 wins in 23, with the club bottom of La Liga.

1996 at Osasuna - sacked after 1 win in 9, with the team struggling in the Segunda Divison.

1997–1999 at Extremadura - promoted to La Liga, then relegated after one season.

RDMs record as an up an coming prospect positively shines in comparison, and just highlights how the clowns on the board are clueless

Going by your logic here, RDM was also a lucky manager, i mean the team that won the CL and Fa cup last season wasn't his

Oh and things also started going bad, when RDM's ideas were implemented this season ha!

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

Going by your logic here, RDM was also a lucky manager, i mean the team that won the CL and Fa cup last season wasn't his

Point taken Sheva

However the early careers are starkly contrasted,

2008-2009 at Franchise FC - finished third in League One and missed out on promotion in the play-offs

2009–2011 at West Brom - promoted to the Premier League, then sacked about three months after guiding them to the Top Four, albeit now 17th after a run of 13 defeats in 18.

2012 at Chelsea - wins the Champions League and FA Cup, then sacked after 3 defeats in 18, with the team in 3rd place

If Benitez was starting in coaching nowadays, would he have ever had four or five chances at that age to keep proving himself at such a high level? I very much doubt it.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Point taken Sheva

However the early careers are starkly contrasted,

2008-2009 at Franchise FC - finished third in League One and missed out on promotion in the play-offs

2009–2011 at West Brom - promoted to the Premier League, then sacked about three months after guiding them to the Top Four, albeit now 17th after a run of 13 defeats in 18.

2012 at Chelsea - wins the Champions League and FA Cup, then sacked after 3 defeats in 18, with the team in 3rd place

If Benitez was starting in coaching nowadays, would he have ever had four or five chances at that age to keep proving himself at such a high level? I very much doubt it.

I don't know about Franchise FC, but he started well at West Brom only to hit a slump, that he couldn't get his team out of. He was replaced and they started doing considerably better under Hodgson and now Clarke.

At Chelsea he took over from AVB's terrible reign and the players immediately bought in and delivered two trophies, but then came this season: another good start only to hit a slump, 2 wins out of 8 and on the verge of CL exit.

He's very early in his managerial career though and will only learn from things like this hopefully, but Rafa Benitez is the more experienced and better manager imo.

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

I don't know about Franchise FC, but he started well at West Brom only to hit a slump, that he couldn't get his team out of. He was replaced and they started doing considerably better under Hodgson and now Clarke.

At Chelsea he took over from AVB's terrible reign and the players immediately bought in and delivered two trophies, but then came this season: another good start only to hit a slump, 2 wins out of 8 and on the verge of CL exit.

He's very early in his managerial career though and will only learn from things like this hopefully, but Rafa Benitez is the more experienced and better manager imo.

RDM was/is a Chelsea idol (legend is too over used ) and a poor start is no reason to sack him, though with the muppets in charge it was on the cards. Some will never accept Tubby regardless of whether he pulls a few wins together and that is a fact.

From the last seven managers who have won the Champions League during the last nine years; Roman has sacked three of them, has just employed one with a view to getting rid of him to bring in another one, leaving only Ferguson & Rijkaard.

A byproduct of this circus has highlighted something I always thought anyway -how the role of managers is greatly over rated -and is equalled or even bettered, by having a leader on the pitch.