The Benitez Thread

[Fulham Broadway 16,832]

The signings thing is one of those points people bring up but when you actually look at some of the players he bought, I'm not so sure it actually holds up. Every manager has their Francis Jeffers/Juan Veron/Bebe/Sutton/Shevchenko etc. One could even look at Guardiola's deal to bring in Zlatan.

I'll just list some of his signings from his first 4 seasons.

£10.7m - Xabi Alonso

£6m - Luis Garcia

£6m - Pepe Reina

£5.6m - Momo Sissoko

£7m - Peter Crouch

£5.8m - Daniel Agger

£6m - Craig Bellamy

£9m - Dirk Kuyt

£2.5m - Alvaro Arbeloa

£5m - Lucas Leiva

£20.2m - Fernando Torres

£5m - Yossi Benayoun

£18.6m - Javier Mascherano

Now I'm pretty sure every one of those players was worth more after Benitez signed them. Three of them arguably provide the spine of that team today (Reina, Agger, Leiva) whilst some have gone on to be truly world class. I hate being put in the position where it appears as though I'm defending him, but I'm simply trying to be as unbiased as possible. Of course there are the Pennants and Babels but I don't think his transfer dealings are much worse than any other teams - he doesn't have a SWP or Sheva in his history, although that's probably got more to do with our board than our managers.

The reason he was bought in was partly due to his relationship with a roughly £100 million asset. The other is that there aren't a huge number of top class managers available who will accept 18 month contracts.

Plus you can't expect me to say 'so and so said this'. I know that's frustrating but it's unfair. I just happen to work in an industry that has a lot of access to the club plus I just happen to know a few players and staff from just around. What you have to remember is that the vast majority of players don't have the same biases we have and that most of them just see this as business as usual. Plus Benitez's reputation in the game is pretty good. He's well-respected especially by the media.

Yes I am sure every manager makes pony signings, but Benitez made on average two for every one that was average or above. Not sure why you put them in bold, but for every Agger or Alonso there is a Kronkamp or Nunes. Or Morientes, or Dossena, Voronin, Josemi, or Keane,or Itanje ...it goes on and on.

Ok you ''know a few players and staff from just around''. and they may have told you something -but the players are contracted and will perform regardless of who is at the helm. I dont know how intimate you are with them, but I doubt they would confide in you or anyone else that they think Rafas a cunt. Most employees would never slag of their manager in public-it usually results in the sack,

Anyway the point is the vast majority of Chelsea fans will not accept him, regardless, which is more a reflection on the shambolic board than on Tubby himself

[The only place to be 11,313]

Yes I am sure every manager makes pony signings, but Benitez made on average two for every one that was average or above. Not sure why you put them in bold, but for every Agger or Alonso there is a Kronkamp or Nunes. Or Morientes, or Dossena, Voronin, Josemi, or Keane,or Itanje ...it goes on and on.

Ok you ''know a few players and staff from just around''. and they may have told you something -but the players are contracted and will perform regardless of who is at the helm. I dont know how intimate you are with them, but I doubt they would confide in you or anyone else that they think Rafas a cunt. Most employees would never slag of their manager in public-it usually results in the sack,

Anyway the point is the vast majority of Chelsea fans will not accept him, regardless, which is more a reflection on the shambolic board than on Tubby himself

Kronkamp was a squad player. Is that really a bad signing when they made back most of the fee?

Nunez was part of the Owen deal and valued at £1.5m. He was sold for £2m.

Morientes never worked out but surely Chelsea fans more than most thought it was a decent punt?? They made about £3 million loss on that.

Dossena was a bad one. Sold for about half what they bought him.

Voronin was a free transfer that they reportedly sold for £4 million.

Josemi was cheap and part of the swap-deal for Kronkamp.

Keane was a flop, cost £19 million and sold for £12 million, rising to £16 million with add-ons.

Itanje was a back-up keeper.

Source - http://www.redandwhi...?topic=249365.0

Now I've produced my list and you've produced 8 players some of whom were flops and (bizarrely) one of whom was a free transfer that they sold for profit. I'm not seeing an overwhelming argument to support your view and I don't think, if you're honest, you'll see one either. What is clear that after about 4 seasons his signings did become a little more hit and miss.

Just noticed I left off Skrtl who cost £6.5 million.

As for the players I know, you're right. They could be towing the line. But I can only go by what I've heard and I've heard nothing to suggest he isn't respected by the players. Have you?

I agree with your last point. But the board had to do what they thought was best for the club this season and after going with the fans' choice in the summer, there was a lot less sympathy for the fans' feelings this time around.

[Fulham Broadway 16,832]

Kronkamp was a squad player. Is that really a bad signing when they made back most of the fee?

Nunez was part of the Owen deal and valued at £1.5m. He was sold for £2m.

Morientes never worked out but surely Chelsea fans more than most thought it was a decent punt?? They made about £3 million loss on that.

Dossena was a bad one. Sold for about half what they bought him.

Voronin was a free transfer that they reportedly sold for £4 million.

Josemi was cheap and part of the swap-deal for Kronkamp.

Keane was a flop, cost £19 million and sold for £12 million, rising to £16 million with add-ons.

Itanje was a back-up keeper.

Source - http://www.redandwhi...?topic=249365.0

Now I've produced my list and you've produced 8 players some of whom were flops and (bizarrely) one of whom was a free transfer that they sold for profit. I'm not seeing an overwhelming argument to support your view and I don't think, if you're honest, you'll see one either. What is clear that after about 4 seasons his signings did become a little more hit and miss.

Just noticed I left off Skrtl who cost £6.5 million.

As for the players I know, you're right. They could be towing the line. But I can only go by what I've heard and I've heard nothing to suggest he isn't respected by the players. Have you?

I agree with your last point. But the board had to do what they thought was best for the club this season and after going with the fans' choice in the summer, there was a lot less sympathy for the fans' feelings this time around.

Source - http://www.redandwhi...?topic=249365.0

I might be wrong but its probably a source that is a little biased. Quite a few Dipper fans acknowledge hes probably the most notorious for squandering money on rubbish. The mediocre squad he inherited from Houllier was arguably no stronger when he left.

Still fair play for your dogged defence of FSW, you must have some lively debate in the MHL Lower with the people around you !

[The only place to be 11,313]

Source - http://www.redandwhi...?topic=249365.0

I might be wrong but its probably a source that is a little biased. Quite a few Dipper fans acknowledge hes probably the most notorious for squandering money on rubbish. The mediocre squad he inherited from Houllier was arguably no stronger when he left.

Still fair play for your dogged defence of FSW, you must have some lively debate in the MHL Lower with the people around you !

It's a biased source but I can't see much wrong with the figures they've quoted. It seems to be one of those media myths, like the one about Roman sacking people willy-nilly when you can justify most of his moves. Or the bs stories about John Terry.

Benitez has by no means the perfect record, but some of the stuff people are getting on him about are largely bollocks. I also know far more Liverpool fans who would point to Houllier or Dalglish's second tenure as being far worse with the cheque book, whilst the squad Benitez assembled was actually pretty good. Reina, Skrtl, Agger, Leiva are all pretty solid pros, whilst the likes of Alonso and Torres became truly world class players who the club made about £50 million profit on. You've obviously got your Aquilanis and Johnsons but he did build a team that managed to get 86 points in one season. Ancelotti did the exact same thing.

[Strike 7,217]

To be fair to Torres, he's been excellent at defending set pieces.

Not enough obviously, but I notice him clearing away corners/free-kicks every game.

i haven't paid attention but has rafa implemented zonal marking?

[Igi26 346]

Benitez is doing decent job right now. We are progressing defensively, we didn't have luck against West Ham.

It's clearly that our 3 AMC are tracking back and defending like they should. Our problem remains the same, when opposition press on our 2 DMC, there is lack of movement by our 3 AMCs, lack off ball movement, tactical awarness by Hazard and Mata.

[spidy 33]

all what the twam needs is just a little of momvement from the other players whom doesn't have the ball in possession situation , they don't create any areas for each other... I saw that with robbie , boas % now with Rafa ... it's a matter of awarnce from our players ...

hate to B like defending Rafa but he did nice job in the 2 first games ....

fu*ked it p in west ham game ...

I still see it too early to judge him , but we are in critical situation we need to win a lot of games

[whinni09 37]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aufFa8Ad9iY

Found it a bit funny, haha

[Spike 12,049]

Cheers to Rafa for taking some tactical changes and experiments against Nord.

Oscar and Luiz at CM.

Paulo back on the pitch.

Juan back in the middle. (I know he had played there in earlier games but today he was dominant).

Changing the 4-2-3-1 into a 4-3-3.

Good stuff.

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

Rafa is a well gud manager, hez got Nando Torres scoring the goals again Rafa for manager of tha year. We well don't need anuva striker in January Nando will fire us to tha Premier League title and Europa League!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RAFA + NANDO 4EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok lets cut the bullshit. Surely the first win under Rafa will give everyone a big lift, fans need to get off his back, can't blame him for going out the CL and that. The team should surely be feeling really good going to play Sunderland, especially after that morale boosting dismantling of Nordsjaelland!

PS. I was physically sick typing "Nando 4ever" ...

In fact no, 2 goals in 2 months is not a bad record, he was just saving all his energies for the world class, Danish Champions and Champions League contenders Nordsjaelland..

[Manuf 1,448]

Rafa is a well gud manager, hez got Nando Torres scoring the goals again Rafa for manager of tha year. We well don't need anuva striker in January Nando will fire us to tha Premier League title and Europa League!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RAFA + NANDO 4EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok lets cut the bullshit. Surely the first win under Rafa will give everyone a big lift, fans need to get off his back, can't blame him for going out the CL and that. The team should surely be feeling really good going to play Sunderland, especially after that morale boosting dismantling of Nordsjaelland!

PS. I was physically sick typing "Nando 4ever" ...

In fact no, 2 goals in 2 months is not a bad record, he was just saving all his energies for the world class, Danish Champions and Champions League contenders Nordsjaelland..

how funny from 1 to eternity would you rate the "he scores when he wants" chant?

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

how funny from 1 to eternity would you rate the "he scores when he wants" chant?

It should be changed to the "he scores when hes not having a strop and is playing against poor opposition with a makeshift back four who give him at least 5 yards space to tap in a low cross" sounds more realistic. However I'm pretty sure we won't be hearing that for a while

[Henrique 9,133]

Seems you arrived here with Rafa ,,,you must forgive me if I dont trust everything you say

6-1

There is only one Rafa. Fact.

[didierforever 7,349]

6-1

There is only one Rafa. Fact.

:fainthv9: :fainthv9: mother of god!!!!

[zolayes 14,489]

6-1

There is only one Rafa. Fact.

that has nothing to do with my post ,,,

[Henrique 9,133]

that has nothing to do with my post ,,,

Time to stop Benitez bashing. Fact.

[zolayes 14,489]

Time to stop Benitez bashing. Fact.

you are the guy who joined us when we got Scolari ,,,you sure can pick them

[Naked Mole Rat 437]

Rafa led us to our CL exit. VILLAIN!