Victor Moses

[DYC. 7,542]

But he was not criticizing Hazard, in fact the first post was about Moses and had nothing to do about Hazard. He just said that Moses provided more than Eden in a certain area. Everyone just took it personally as if he had insulted Hazard's honor. It's ridiculous how you get attacked here when you make a point about Hazard even if that point is completely valid.

I didn't attack him. Apparently I misunderstood what he meant with the part of his post saying Hazard contributes little. But he has already explained what he meant.

My point was Hazard + Mata + Oscar inexperienced + ... + ... At the end of the day that's massively inbalanced.

Your answer is a bit similar to Benitez's on rotation lol, I obviously understand how teams keep their balance with 11 players with different roles. My point was on the current situation, Hazard has not matched my expectations given what he's able to do.

If you have one player who create inbalance for the opponents and bangs you goals, gives assists... but barely defends such as Mata, you can always compensate. Our front three at the start of the season was kind of suicidal and if Mata, Oscar did their best related to their athletic abilities ; I didn't have the same feeling about Hazard. Not saying he was 35% of what he can do but something like 85%, 90% and despite the amount of games played.

Everytime I saw Hazard in France I had the odd feeling he's not that hungry to improve, despite the brilliance he was able to produce on a regular basis.

I agree, it was imbalanced. In fact, I said so before Di Matteo even started using Oscar but then I got a bunch of replies saying they're so great and that it will work, we have the double pivot to defend etc.

Fair enough on Hazard, that's your opinion. Personally I prefer to focus on his offensive contributions, ability on the ball and decisiveness, in the same way that is the case with the best offensive players in world football. As I do believe he has what it takes to be among the best. Nobody was discussing Ronaldinho's all-round contribution and him lacking defensively when he was the star man in Barca's CL succes, same with Kaka and the same with Cristiano Ronaldo.

[DYC. 7,542]

My opinion sounds excessive but my initial point was that I expect a bit more from Hazard defensively. We all know his best use will be with enlarged freedom (but relevant freedom, I don't know if you watch Wigan at times, their interchanging front three is really working).

But enlarged freedom means basic pressing, positioning when the ball is lost... Not a matter of abilities, adaptation, stepovers; just a matter of instructions and team ethic.

Mata, Sturridge and Hazard hasn't even been doing that basic stuff when the ball was lost ; resulting most of our defensive woes.

Like I said in a earlier post, I think you're harsh on Hazard's defensive contribution. He's no work-horse but it's not like he does nothing. Again, 1.3 interceptions per game for example.

And the attacking players are often asked to drop too deep imo, forcing them to cover a lot of ground. That's fine when you have the likes of Young, Valencia, Moses etc on the flanks. But for our team It would be much better if the lines were kept much closer and there was more focus on pressing collectively.

[Stingray 9,441]

I don't know if I managed to make my point clear enough.

Exactly. You refined your initial statements, and I thank you for it. Please do not forget we are not psychics that can mindread. Apparently there were a lot of hidden assumptions underlying your argument. Now I heard them, I can even relte to them. But without the context you just gave, it sounded to harsh.

Ps: this has nothing to do with not criticizing Hazard = getting attacked @corner or @Choulo19. If you raise an argument and you feel it is valid but others do not get it (even though it is merely due to lack of context or not knowing the assumptions underlying the argument - which is the responsability of whoever puts forth the initial argument), you can except a debate. Nobody trashed you or anything - at least not in my view.

However: if you can criticize and others can't respond .... well, thats like playing tennis with the net down for your serve and the net back up for the return. It's also a little intellectually unfair. Debate is a debate. All sides/arguments can and must have their say.

That said, now you explained I can relate to your argument. Still ... regarding the argument :

You've several ways to be involved in an attacking playing sequence: You can ask the ball to get it and make the difference You can put others in good positions, try to shift the opponent's block You can make a false call to create space You can stay rooted to fix a defender Defensively, there's tracking back, close the channel, the actual defending etc...

I think besides 1 and 2, he also does 3 and 4, though you apparently don't see this from him (so your argument is more than just about defending, not?). The defending part I agree on. He sucks on that.

Sorry for the off topic, Moses :-) Hope that clarifies why I found it harsh, Seb.

[different level 1,056]

I am cheering for all the teams playing Nigeria in AcoN, so we can have Moses and Mikel at our disposal as soon as possible.

[Hamilton 2,120]

How is he doing? Bad i hope..

[mediator 2,026]

Winning the ACON would be better for his development...

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

When is the ACON final?

[Hutcho 8,443]

When is the ACON final?

Febuary the 10th i think...

[Leif 6,006]

I miss him

[mediator 2,026]

Victor Moses hamstring issue sees winger in doubt for Nigeria's next match

http://www.weaintgotnohistory.com/2013/1/28/3925124/victor-moses-hamstring-injury

[TrippingStep 336]

@DYC., @Yeboii, @Stingray, @Weckerz,

I'm not sure you got my full point which was:

Hazard who really offers very little when he's not the key player of a given playing sequence.

If you start to twist it and pretend I meant that he offered nothing, I don't get the point to answer me as one just cannot debate by twisting so much someone's point.

You've several ways to be involved in an attacking playing sequence:

1. You can ask the ball to get it and make the difference
3. You can put others in good positions, try to shift the opponent's block
5. You can make a false call to create space
7. You can stay rooted to fix a defender

Defensively,

1. there's tracking back,
3. close the channel,
5. the actual defending etc...

My point was that if Hazard is fantastic facing the play when he has the ball and can take on the opponent. But that's a third or a quarter of what he is supposed to do in a game. He's brilliant at points 1., 2. but quite poor in points 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Overally it's fair to say that he offers little in terms of build up of the goals (don't give me the assists figures, that's absolutely not what I'm talking about), use of the space when he's not about to get the ball and finally the defensive work.

If I'm harsh on him it's because he's the abilities to do what I just mentionned but for some reason he doesn't seem to want to improve drastically those facets of his game. Benitez kicked him in the ass, that's all what Garcia/Di Matteo never dare to do, especially when Hazard didn't gave a single fuck about the tactical training sessions at Lille (yes, we can put the Sturridge nonsense into perspective!)

Hazard started the season as CAM because on paper he's easier under pressure to protect the ball etc... When played as CAM for Lille, he did the playmaking role to feed the channels. Hazard was pushed out wide after that, mainly because his main go for us was to receive the ball onto his feet, turn over and take on the opponent without ever distribute the ball from both flanks.

Moses is 20 days older, played 145 games whereas Hazard played 167 pro games. Not at the same level either. I'm not sure the age/experience debate isn't a minefield to be fair.

Don't put in the England/Ligue 1 difference either, that's fair for Oscar who's just about to discover Europe... But Hazard has been a regular starter for 4 seasons, played in Europe, never learnt how to defend. He didn't defend at all at Lille, there was just nobody to point that out.

I said Moses offers more than Hazard, that's not in terms of skills or stuff like that... that's about team & work ethic. I don't compare the abilities in itself (is he able to beat 3 opponents only with his wrong foot blabla) but the facets of the play.

Moses offers runs, use of space when attacking, retains the ball collectively speaking ; he defends by tracking back with defensive skills

Hazard offers world class abilities facing the play on the ball but is quite average (i.e has to improve) elsewhere.

I still can't manage to understand why some can pretend I meant Moses *is better* than Hazard. At the moment Moses is more all round than Hazard, so offers more to the team in terms of general balance.

I agree on some points. But for point 3, I think it depends a lot on his fitness level. I've seen matches where he did lot of movements to create space for other players. the first match against CSKA of LIlle, he didn't receive many balls, the russians putting double or triple covering. On the Pedretti goal, he moved a cska player that was in front of the box covering for an inside turn when Hazard moved to the right to receive a ball that he let pass for a Pedretti alone with no pressure.

Yes Hazard played many matches but I'm not sure I rate Garcia very well. He's good to bring the best of a particul point of an offensive player like he did with Gervinho, Bastos, focusing on a very strong point but to the detriment of the all-around play.

That's why I've said that I would have prefered if Hazard had Puel on the beginning of his career.

If you look at Garcia, he misused a lot of midfielder or had problems with them, Gueye, Cabaye, Obraniak all had problems with him.

Hazard is bad at pressing, defensively when he is on, it's more channeling the play into certain areas that he's best at.

What I would like to see more is Oscar playing more central, a bit behind Hazard to develop more some understanding they have, they had good moves of Oscar coming from behind using the back to goal play of Hazard laying off the ball to him in the space.

Perhaps next year when they will have the all pre-season to adjust that.

[different level 1,056]

If Nigeria lose their match today we can probably have him back in time for the Newcastle game.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Victor Moses hamstring issue sees winger in doubt for Nigeria's next match

http://www.weaintgotnohistory.com/2013/1/28/3925124/victor-moses-hamstring-injury

oh please don't get injured....

[bushman 2,043]

Chelsea should call him back immediately. Let him heal his hamstring at London.

[Hamilton 2,120]

Just what we need...

Be carefull Victor!