Oscar

[papito 8]

but his goal is not to defend but to score goals then i don't understand why some people said he was great . his workrate was unbelievable but he's not a defender lol

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

He is an all round midfielder. He does not have a designated 'job'. He isn't told to go out, assist or score and don't forget to press!

The boss even said costa dies not need to score to do what is needed for the time. Just see the penalty against arsenal, his movement made space.

Oscar is there as glue. He supports Costa as the main presser, he drops deep to cover Fabregas, he pulls wide to allow space for Eden and the others behind the striker, he offers options to cesc to keep possession, he covers the space left by the other attackers. He also is there to provide support for the attack.

He is not the star, to be honest he is a good cm that plays high but inevitably ends up all over the pitch.

[papito 8]

he does everything actually lol

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Neymar posted this on Twitter. Anyone that follows Brazilian football knows why this image is special.

[Barbara 15,149]

This one was the one I was talking about. Every player in Real Madrid did magnificent games defensively, for example Di Maria in many games almost was a full back.

This is an incredible game of the number 10. Defending and attacking, what a great nº 10 should do even against Guardiola Barcelona in the Camp Nou (Real Madrid was eliminated in this game but Real did an incredible game, and you could smell the fear of the players and fans of Barcelona in this game).

"Un Özil extraordinario dominó de cabo a rabo el choque. El Madrid afinó la puntería tarde y sus dos goles fueron insuficientes. Pasa el Barcelona, que fue muy superior en la ida." / "An amazing Ozil domited all the game" (Marca)

http://www.marca.com/marcador/futbol/2011_12/copa/cuartos/vuelta/bar_rma/asilovivimos.html

You provided the video, but somehow I feel you proved my point further. Either you didn't understand what Tomo was explaining a #10 does in England or you're mistaking the whole thing...

So again, what is exactly your point? That Ozil is more creative than Oscar? Everyone knows it for a fact. What makes no sense is telling that Ozil can make all the pressing, marking and defensive work Oscar does as you said he can do. He can't and he has never done it in a match I've watched. And we were saying that those skills are necessary for a #10 to be really useful in English football. So I still don't get you....

But here's a practical thing

better quality vid of yours

Oscar vs Sporting last week

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rtaS9sixyA&list=UUXwtgFK_8wdpMZXmcZC0usg

I would suggest you to count and compare, but I did the counting for you, so you can check if you want.

I compared both videos and this is what I've got (Ozil x Oscar)

Tackles in opponent half: 2 x 2

Tackles in his half: 0 x 3

Total Tackles: 2 x 5

Clearances: 0 x 1

Interception: 1 x 0

Pressing occasions: 1 x 3

Insistent pressing occasions*: 0 x 1

Aerial Duels won: 0 x 1

Chances created: 1 x 1

Clear cut chances created: 2 x 3

Pass before the assist: 1 x 2

Through balls: 2 x 5

Shots on goal: 3 (2 blocked, one wood work) x 1 (sitter saved by goalie)

Dispossessed/turnover: 6 x 1

*when the player pressed once, twice, but didn't let go, keep closing gaps as the opposition exchanged passes - pressing more than on player in sequence.

(take notice of how many times he was dispossessed, most of them didn't involve him trying to dribble, it was about first touch, ball control or being tackled by opposition)

Sorry but I don't feel Ozil even close to Oscar in the work-rate department and to be honest, Oscar was better even in the creative part (and still there were people on the live thread saying Oscar couldn't pick one pass in the attack). What people are talking here is his tactical flexibility. In a normal day, where he doesn't have to play deeper, he'll do everything Ozil did defensively in that match and so much more. He puts pressure all the time, he presses many times during a match, he tackles, both in our half and the opponents half, he protects our box, he does the never-giving-up- kind of pressing. In the Sporting match as showed above he did all that and still got five through balls, created three clear cut chances plus another chance created and had the pass before what could have been an assist twice.

I did those stats myself based on those two vids, instead of going to Squawka, for example. So I can only talk about I've watched... still this video by you doesn't prove Ozil can do even half of what Oscar does defensively/pressing and in that said match compared to Oscar's against Sporting, Oscar was better not only defensively, but also creatively. Which doesn't mean he's more creative than Ozil, he isn't, I'm just refuting your initial point.

[xPetrCechx 13,570]

Neymar posted this on Twitter. Anyone that follows Brazilian football knows why this image is special.

Kaka?

[Barbara 15,149]

Kaka?

Kaka is Oscar's idol both come from Sao Paulo FC and both Neymar and Robinho come from Santos FC and when he was a very young teenager, Neymar used to want to be the 'New Robinho' - except he's already much better and it was clear early he would turn out better,

[papito 8]

Robinho can't play football lol

[Rom2013 446]

You provided the video, but somehow I feel you proved my point further. Either you didn't understand what Tomo was explaining a #10 does in England or you're mistaking the whole thing...

So again, what is exactly your point? That Ozil is more creative than Oscar? Everyone knows it for a fact. What makes no sense is telling that Ozil can make all the pressing, marking and defensive work Oscar does as you said he can do. He can't and he has never done it in a match I've watched. And we were saying that those skills are necessary for a #10 to be really useful in English football. So I still don't get you....

But here's a practical thing

better quality vid of yours

Oscar vs Sporting last week

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rtaS9sixyA&list=UUXwtgFK_8wdpMZXmcZC0usg

I would suggest you to count and compare, but I did the counting for you, so you can check if you want.

I compared both videos and this is what I've got (Ozil x Oscar)

Tackles in opponent half: 2 x 2

Tackles in his half: 0 x 3

Total Tackles: 2 x 5

Clearances: 0 x 1

Interception: 1 x 0

Pressing occasions: 1 x 3

Insistent pressing occasions*: 0 x 1

Aerial Duels won: 0 x 1

Chances created: 1 x 1

Clear cut chances created: 2 x 3

Pass before the assist: 1 x 2

Through balls: 2 x 5

Shots on goal: 3 (2 blocked, one wood work) x 1 (sitter saved by goalie)

Dispossessed/turnover: 6 x 1

*when the player pressed once, twice, but didn't let go, keep closing gaps as the opposition exchanged passes - pressing more than on player in sequence.

(take notice of how many times he was dispossessed, most of them didn't involve him trying to dribble, it was about first touch, ball control or being tackled by opposition)

Sorry but I don't feel Ozil even close to Oscar in the work-rate department and to be honest, Oscar was better even in the creative part (and still there were people on the live thread saying Oscar couldn't pick one pass in the attack). What people are talking here is his tactical flexibility. In a normal day, where he doesn't have to play deeper, he'll do everything Ozil did defensively in that match and so much more. He puts pressure all the time, he presses many times during a match, he tackles, both in our half and the opponents half, he protects our box, he does the never-giving-up- kind of pressing. In the Sporting match as showed above he did all that and still got five through balls, created three clear cut chances plus another chance created and had the pass before what could have been an assist twice.

I did those stats myself based on those two vids, instead of going to Squawka, for example. So I can only talk about I've watched... still this video by you doesn't prove Ozil can do even half of what Oscar does defensively/pressing and in that said match compared to Oscar's against Sporting, Oscar was better not only defensively, but also creatively. Which doesn't mean he's more creative than Ozil, he isn't, I'm just refuting your initial point.

And now we are comparing a game in Alvalade with a game against Barcelona in the Camp Nou...

Both games are good for a number 10, they defended properly and created a lot, but the first one is the most difficult game in the world and the other is a walk in the park.

THe game against Arsenal is not good enough, I'm sorry but that's the truth specially at home against a worst team.He needs to something in attack.

I can understand a game like this against Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, away against City... at home against Arsenal I can't.

Fabregas also do a lot of defensive job, maybe even more and in every game he does something in attack, often he does a lot.

There are players that can do both things really well, and Mourinho always had players like this. Ozil is one example of a player taht does this position a lot better, than Oscar is doing.

[papito 8]

yes sporting lisbon is a shit team and Barcelona one of the best in the world

[Barbara 15,149]

And now we are comparing a game in Alvalade with a game against Barcelona in the Camp Nou...

Both games are good for a number 10, they defended properly and created a lot, but the first one is the most difficult game in the world and the other is a walk in the park.

THe game against Arsenal is not good enough, I'm sorry but that's the truth specially at home against a worst team.He needs to something in attack.

I can understand a game like this against Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, away against City... at home against Arsenal I can't.

Fabregas also do a lot of defensive job, maybe even more and in every game he does something in attack, often he does a lot.

There are players that can do both things really well, and Mourinho always had players like this. Ozil is one example of a player taht does this position a lot better, than Oscar is doing.

so what?

He played even more defensively against Arsenal... if I compared this Barcelona match to that one he'd have even better defensive stats. As I said, I wasn't trying to prove Oscar is more creative than Ozil, just Ozil can't and doesn't do the defensive job Mourinho requires frm Oscar. And that other teams in England are also now requiring too because that's a whole new world there.

The tougher the opposition, more defensive responsibilities Oscar will be given, something Ozil can't think about doing even in his (or yours) wildest dream. So you keep proving my point further and further and I really can't understand what you mean.

Ozil does one thing better than Oscar, Oscar does another thing better than Ozil. Oscar is much more suitable for a #10 position in England than Ozil is. Go ask Arsenal fans how much they love Ozil... they've been badmouthing him this whole year. They were praising him the first half last season, but since the winter and now the early days of this season they can only complain.

I still don't get your point. You may think Ozil is a better #10, that's your opinion and one I'm maybe even inclined to agree as I'm a huge Mesut fan. The point being made in the thread and that you disagreed is that Oscar is a different breed of #10 and one we need in the system. Then you brought the nonsense that Mesut can also do the defensive job while being better creatively. Sorry, mate, that makes no sense at all simply because it isn't true. Your vid doesn't prove anything. Two tackles under five minutes doesn't prove Mesut can do pressing and marking, just that he bothered for five minutes. Then he didn't as you can't find another tackle by him in the whole match...

If you have a problem with how he played against Arsenal, then go talk to your countryman and ask him why he gave Oscar instructions to sit deeper so Fàbregas could launch our counter-attacks. Your problem here is with Mourinho then, not Oscar. If Oscar proved four days prior to that that he can create chances and the manager asked him to sit deeper, then at least blame the right person. You continue not making sense or I continue to fail to understand you.

[Ainsley Harriott 2,732]

yes sporting lisbon is a shit team and Barcelona one of the best in the world

When will this guy's trolling be stopped? Pretty boring.

[papito 8]

i would want Oscar does more offensively because i 'm enough with his tackles and only his defensive role. He is able to score , provoke, dribble as he did against Sporting .

[papito 8]

i don't troll , you love sporting , you are portuguese sorry mate lol

[Rom2013 446]

so what?

He played even more defensively against Arsenal... if I compared this Barcelona match to that one he'd have even better defensive stats. As I said, I wasn't trying to prove Oscar is more creative than Ozil, just Ozil can't and doesn't do the defensive job Mourinho requires frm Oscar. And that other teams in England are also now requiring too because that's a whole new world there.

The tougher the opposition, more defensive responsibilities Oscar will be given, something Ozil can't think about doing even in his (or yours) wildest dream. So you keep proving my point further and further and I really can't understand what you mean.

Ozil does one thing better than Oscar, Oscar does another thing better than Ozil. Oscar is much more suitable for a #10 position in England than Ozil is. Go ask Arsenal fans how much they love Ozil... they've been badmouthing him this whole year. They were praising him the first half last season, but since the winter and now the early days of this season they can only complain.

I still don't get your point. You may think Ozil is a better #10, that's your opinion and one I'm maybe even inclined to agree as I'm a huge Mesut fan. The point being made in the thread and that you disagreed is that Oscar is a different breed of #10 and one we need in the system. Then you brought the nonsense that Mesut can also do the defensive job while being better creatively. Sorry, mate, that makes no sense at all simply because it isn't true. Your vid doesn't prove anything. Two tackles under five minutes doesn't prove Mesut can do pressing and marking, just that he bothered for five minutes. Then he didn't as you can't find another tackle by him in the whole match...

If you have a problem with how he played against Arsenal, then go talk to your countryman and ask him why he gave Oscar instructions to sit deeper so Fàbregas could launch our counter-attacks. Your problem here is with Mourinho then, not Oscar. If Oscar proved four days prior to that that he can create chances and the manager asked him to sit deeper, then at least blame the right person. You continue not making sense or I continue to fail to understand you.

Ozil is a complete number 10, a player that when is necessary can do the defensive job well against big teams or when needed. One among other great number 10 that can do it also.

Oscar can do the defensive work better than normally a number 10 would do it but he can't do his work in attack in this kind of games.

It's simple. He is a number 10, he can't be in the bridge playing against Arsenal and doing nothing in attack.

That's far from a great game.

As anyone can see, Ozil did a lot of times this work for Madrid with Mourinho and played well in attack, the same for Di Maria beeing almost a right back against Barcelona and playing well in attack. For Di Maria the same happened with Ancelotti when Di Maria had to play in a mdsfield position. You watch Dortmund and you see an intense midfield doing well in attack and defense, the same for Atletico.

Many players in the number 10 position (or in attacking positions) nowaday do this defensive work at the same time that produce a lot in attack.

We have for example Fabregas playing has a CM, having 7 assists and some goals, and woking hard in defense.

Oscar needs to do more. That's my point, and this last game for me is far from good.

[papito 8]

yoçu forgot Hazard lol . He plays now very well defensively too

[Dion 2,476]

And now we are comparing a game in Alvalade with a game against Barcelona in the Camp Nou...

Both games are good for a number 10, they defended properly and created a lot, but the first one is the most difficult game in the world and the other is a walk in the park.

We can compare them both playing the same match too. Chelsea vs. Arsenal - which one had the better work rate? Even Arsenal fans pointed out that Oscar's work rate in the match highlighted how poor Ozil's is. And Ozil wasn't even particularly creative. Also, even though Oscar worked hard in defense he still provided a few good passes - I remember for example a pass from him in the left flank between two Arsenal players finding Hazard in a huge gap of space in the middle. Bottom line is you can't really compare one of the attacking midfielders with the highest work rate in the world with another who has one of the poorest and just proceed to talk about creativity while pretending their work rate and defensive prowess is about the same.

[Ainsley Harriott 2,732]

When will this guy's trolling be stopped? Pretty boring.

I run this shit.

[zolayes 14,489]

Ozil is a complete number 10, a player that when is necessary can do the defensive job well against big teams or when needed. One among other great number 10 that can do it also.

Oscar can do the defensive work better than normally a number 10 would do it but he can't do his work in attack in this kind of games.

It's simple. He is a number 10, he can't be in the bridge playing against Arsenal and doing nothing in attack.

That's far from a great game.

As anyone can see, Ozil did a lot of times this work for Madrid with Mourinho and played well in attack, the same for Di Maria beeing almost a right back against Barcelona and playing well in attack. For Di Maria the same happened with Ancelotti when Di Maria had to play in a mdsfield position. You watch Dortmund and you see an intense midfield doing well in attack and defense, the same for Atletico.

Many players in the number 10 position (or in attacking positions) nowaday do this defensive work at the same time that produce a lot in attack.

We have for example Fabregas playing has a CM, having 7 assists and some goals, and woking hard in defense.

Oscar needs to do more. That's my point, and this last game for me is far from good.

OZIL is the COMPLETE number 10 ..?????. ... Ive read some stupid posts but ......... have you watched Arse this year ???

[Shane 2,275]

Ozil hasn't had a good game for Arsenal since last December. Think defenders were afraid of him at first, gave him space, but know he just lets games pass him by. Bottled a penalty against Bayern for them aswell.